| --- Log opened Mon Nov 05 00:00:02 2018 |
| 00:11 | <@celticminstrel> | XD What |
| 00:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Is it actually a Java classfile or is the Finder or something merely misidentifying it as such? |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | The first four bytes are 0xCA 0xFE 0xBA 0xBE |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | That's the Java Classfile magic number |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | Also, unrelated |
| 00:20 | | * McMartin murders Xcode right in its stupid face, cackles maniacally |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | I just found the last piece of something I've wanted to do for a long, long time |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | A completely self-contained Cocoa executable that does not require anything from a containing application bundle to actually run |
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| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh nice. |
| 02:37 | <&McMartin> | For this it turns out that 10.7 is the earliest reasonable version to target; Cocoa is completely miserable to use without ARC, and 10.6's support for ARC is... incomplete in important ways |
| 03:00 | <&McMartin> | celticminstrel: See if https://www.dropbox.com/s/6oi7qja7nhbiz4a/macCCA-console.zip?dl=1 works for you when executed from Terminal.app |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | What does it do |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh there's a readme |
| 04:08 | <@celticminstrel> | It threw an exception. |
| 04:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSInvalidArgumentException', reason: '+[NSWindow windowWithContentViewController:]: unrecognized selector sent to class 0x7fff757e6a70' |
| 04:09 | <@celticminstrel> | So I guess it doesn't work on 10.7 huh. |
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| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | That's interesting |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | I told it the target deployment was 10.7 and it didn't complain about lacking that |
| 04:23 | | * McMartin hits up the API lists |
| 04:24 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, OK, that turns out to have been secretly added in 10.10 and there's no deprecation warnings on it. |
| 04:34 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 04:37 | <&McMartin> | OK, it looks like the window lifecycle changed *drastically* in 10.10 |
| 04:37 | <&McMartin> | I'll have to play with it more to get to 10.7; for now that is not a concern~ |
| 04:48 | <@celticminstrel> | What are they on now, anyway? 10.14 or so? |
| 04:48 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 04:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Wonder if they'll ever roll up the major revision again. |
| 04:49 | <&McMartin> | 10.10 basically went and patched in iOS's then-contemporary application lifecycle code into macOS |
| 04:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Uh, that sounds a little bad. |
| 04:49 | <&McMartin> | Having ViewControllers not be Views seems to have ended up being a pretty good idea |
| 04:49 | < Mahal> | Microsoft and Apple both seem to have been on the "single platform for multiple device types" kick for awhile |
| 04:49 | < Mahal> | just executed in different fashions |
| 04:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Mind you, as long as I'm only using SDL / SFML / Unreal it probably won't ever matter. |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | This one was one of iOS's few ideas good enough for Android to steal~ |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | (Android calls them Fragments) |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | Windows, uh, kind of already had this with the way WndClass worked back in 1998 |
| 04:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm? Is iOS actually merged with MacOS? |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | Not yet |
| 04:50 | <@celticminstrel> | This sounds ominous. :/ |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | But AppKit got a bunch of new API points that weren't there before 10.10 because UIKit had them |
| 04:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, that's less ominous. |
| 04:51 | <&McMartin> | Indeed, the reason my application crashed on 10.7 was because I was using those API points to control the windows' lifecycles |
| 04:51 | < Mahal> | I have far more philosophical issues with Microsoft's execution of this concept. |
| 04:51 | < Mahal> | the touchpanel interface on a server is just unconscionably bad |
| 04:52 | <@celticminstrel> | ...on a server? Huh? |
| 04:52 | <&McMartin> | celticminstrel: But basically, this means that I need to get the rest of this application working the way I want, to my satisfaction, before downgrading the application architecture to only use 10.5 classes (the last major API shift, presumably due to Intel Macs dropping a ton of cruft) |
| 04:53 | <@celticminstrel> | You're actually gonna make it work on 10.5 huh. |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | Nope, 10.7 is the lowest I care about |
| 04:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah okay. |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | But that's because of the language runtime, not the API. |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | No class I want to use was introduced in 10.7 |
| 05:08 | <&McMartin> | I have two goals here, really |
| 05:08 | <&McMartin> | One is the ability to run a Cocoa app as a normal console application, which this does |
| 05:09 | <&McMartin> | The other is to be able to produce a Mac application with a bog-standard makefile without having to go through a bunch of Xcode-specific jackassery but just use a mostly-Unix makefile and then a "make_macos_bundle.sh" or similar afterwards. |
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| 05:48 | <&McMartin> | Aha, the trick I was missing was that I need to touch the app directory after changing its contents for Finder to notice. |
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| 05:55 | <&McMartin> | Looking good |
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| 19:21 | <&McMartin> | 20:53 <&McMartin> No class I want to use was introduced in 10.7 |
| 19:21 | <&McMartin> | Turns out this is a lie; that's when Auto Layout was introduced to macOS and that's the only layout API on Apple I actually know how to use |
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| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | Digging through the API requirements, I have concluded that requiring 10.10 is like requiring Windows 7, and requiring 10.7 is like requiring Windows XP. |
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| --- Log closed Tue Nov 06 00:00:03 2018 |