| --- Log opened Wed Aug 16 00:00:05 2017 |
| 00:40 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 00:52 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-6sb4ii.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 00:54 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-6sb4ii.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 02:07 | | Jessikat` [Jessikat@Nightstar-bt5k4h.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 02:16 | | Jessikat`` [Jessikat@Nightstar-gpqfj5.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:30 | | Jessikat [Jessikat@Nightstar-5kfj9o.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 03:29 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 03:29 | | mode/#code [+o mac] by ChanServ |
| 03:32 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:51 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-6sb4ii.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 03:58 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 04:41 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] |
| 04:43 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 04:43 | | mode/#code [+o Reiv] by ChanServ |
| 04:55 | <&Derakon> | Whelp. |
| 04:55 | <&Derakon> | I've now spent like two hours debugging my map generator. |
| 04:56 | <&Derakon> | Turns out the reason it wasn't placing doors correctly is because I'd accidentally set it up so a given room could only have at most 2 doors, one entering and one exiting. |
| 04:56 | <&Derakon> | It apparently didn't occur to me that squares have four sides~ |
| 04:58 | <&Derakon> | (Specifically, I'd set it up so a door had X/Y coordinates and an "is horizontal" boolean, and then made it so a given XY tuple could only have 1 door) |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | Obviously, as one dimension smaller than Nature's Harmonious Four Corner Time Cube, it must also have half as many sides. |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | It's just science |
| 05:00 | <~Vornicus> | |
| 05:08 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:35 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 06:35 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord] by ChanServ |
| 06:36 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 06:36 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord|slep] by ChanServ |
| 06:37 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:39 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 06:39 | | mode/#code [+o mac] by ChanServ |
| 06:39 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:41 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:30 | | Alek [Alek@Nightstar-7or629.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:33 | | Alek [Alek@Nightstar-7or629.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 07:33 | | mode/#code [+o Alek] by ChanServ |
| 07:39 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 08:46 | | Jessikat` [Jessikat@Nightstar-0jggfk.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 08:49 | | Jessikat [Jessikat@Nightstar-5kfj9o.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:50 | | Jessikat` [Jessikat@Nightstar-0jggfk.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:09 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-rpcdbf.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:11 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-rpcdbf.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 11:11 | | mode/#code [+ao McMartin McMartin] by ChanServ |
| 12:31 | | * TheWatcher identifies a bug in gitlab, sighs vaguely at the fact that nobody else seems to have noticed it |
| 12:31 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm pretty sure it's not my setup, as it happens on gitlab.com, too |
| 12:32 | <@TheWatcher> | https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/commits/master - go there, open your browser's inspector, scroll to the bottom of the page, let it load more content, scroll again, let it load more content. First url should have the query ?limit=40&count=40 while the second has ?limit=40&count=4040 |
| 12:33 | <@TheWatcher> | sould be count=80; someone fell into the += trap |
| 14:02 | < ToxicFrog> | This is why I prefer having sum and concat be different operators. |
| 14:16 | | Jessikat [Jessikat@Nightstar-teqjls.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 15:08 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 15:17 | | Jessikat` [Jessikat@Nightstar-ioe4tq.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 15:20 | | Jessikat [Jessikat@Nightstar-teqjls.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:39 | | * TheWatcher faces the terrifying fact that he's started understanding ruby on rails |
| 15:56 | < Jessikat`> | The light in the distance is an oncoming train, you realise? |
| 16:00 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: Don't worry, you haven't |
| 16:00 | <@Azash> | Not yet |
| 16:00 | <@Azash> | Not until you've tried to do a version upgrade on a completed project |
| 16:02 | <@Azash> | IME, and that of our entire support dept (we had this discussion some hours ago, in fact), upgrading rails from x.y to (x+1).0 is roughly the equivalent of upgrading your project from C++11 to C99 as far as smooth transitions and backward compatibility are concerned |
| 16:09 | | * ToxicFrog pokes at Boot, Hoplon, and Sente |
| 16:35 | | Jessikat` is now known as Jessikat |
| 16:43 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 16:43 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord|slep] by ChanServ |
| 16:46 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:09 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-klgs3m.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 17:54 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 17:54 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord] by ChanServ |
| 17:56 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-a1fj2k.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:50 | <&[R]> | JS' + abuse is why I'll occasionally do: x - -y |
| 19:14 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-9p7hb1.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #code |
| 19:39 | | RchrdB [RchrdB@Nightstar-qe9.aug.187.81.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:50 | | Jessikat` [Jessikat@Nightstar-bt5k4h.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #code |
| 19:51 | | Jessikat [Jessikat@Nightstar-ioe4tq.dab.02.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Bye] |
| 20:24 | <&McMartin> | Today in pilot error: https://askubuntu.com/questions/938606/dwarf-fortress-starting-during-apt-get-up grade |
| 20:26 | <@Tamber> | Glorious~ |
| 20:30 | <~Vornicus> | Awesome |
| 20:43 | <&[R]> | UGH |
| 20:43 | <&[R]> | Fucking Debianoids putting fucking CUI applications in their fucking apt hooks |
| 20:43 | <&[R]> | Whoever fucking does that should be fucking castrated |
| 20:44 | <&[R]> | Without anestesia, then cautorized with a hot iron |
| 20:44 | <@Tamber> | o.o |
| 20:45 | <&McMartin> | I have a super-vague memory that Red Hat-derived ones did too for awhile, but I haven't seen one from it in any actually clear memory |
| 20:45 | <&McMartin> | Maybe I have circuits crossed with other systems. |
| 20:45 | | * [R] just read the first answer |
| 20:45 | <&[R]> | Looks like it could've been user error |
| 20:46 | <&McMartin> | The thing in question was *attempting* to run a post-install script, which I imagine you are at most opposed to in relatively civilized ways |
| 20:47 | <&[R]> | Eh? Hooks are completely fine |
| 20:47 | < RchrdB> | Post-install hooks are terrible. |
| 20:47 | | * McMartin walks briskly away, his work of trolling apparently done |
| 20:47 | <&[R]> | My beef is when it launches something that requires user-input, and hangs a multi-hour process half-hour into it. |
| 20:48 | <&[R]> | Debian's postfix package has burned me a few times. |
| 20:49 | <&[R]> | My other beef is when package maintainers fuck with the package. |
| 20:49 | < RchrdB> | IME, if you manage to screw up the state of a Debian system such that a given package's hooks won't successfully run to completion, you have royally fucked yourself because it's about as good as if you corrupted the machine's apt database; you can neither upgrade nor downgrade nor get rid of the thing which you broke. |
| 20:49 | <&[R]> | Debian's AIDE package's maintainer needs to be adjusted as describe above. |
| 20:49 | < RchrdB> | [R], I'm a big fan of it when Debian fucks with packages by adding man pages to packages that didn't come with any. |
| 20:49 | <&[R]> | I don't consider that fucking |
| 20:49 | < RchrdB> | Not so much when they fuck with packages by removing calls to random number generators! :D |
| 20:50 | <&[R]> | I consider shit like making a program that can run with 'aide' alone not work because the default path for the configuration was changed to '/specify/the/configuration/file/on/the/command/line' |
| 20:50 | <@Tamber> | or removing those pesky warnings about uninitialised memory~? |
| 20:51 | <&[R]> | And the manpages the package provides do not reflect this assfuckery |
| 20:51 | < RchrdB> | Tamber, yeah, that's the story about the losing the entropy-gathering calls. |
| 20:51 | <&[R]> | RchrdB: The hooks ran to completion. They just waited for user-input. All night. Stalling the update. All night. |
| 20:52 | <@macdjord> | RchrdB: Removing RNGs? |
| 20:52 | <&[R]> | macdjord: the debian sshd debacle |
| 20:52 | < RchrdB> | macdjord, remember the famous Debian openssl bug? |
| 20:52 | <@macdjord> | RchrdB: Vaguely. |
| 20:52 | < RchrdB> | where it turned out that if you generated an ssh keypair on Debian, there were only 65536 possible keys? |
| 20:53 | <@macdjord> | .... no, that one's new to me. |
| 20:53 | <&[R]> | That was like 10 years ago |
| 20:53 | <@macdjord> | [R]: Ah, that was before I was tapped in to the world of coding news, so... |
| 20:53 | < RchrdB> | and if you used certain cryptographic algorithms (like, I think, DSA) at all, even with a key that had been generated securely, there were number-theory tricks that could reveal your private key just from snooping on your communications |
| 20:54 | < RchrdB> | much less than 10 years ago, I was around for this one |
| 20:54 | < RchrdB> | nooope 2008 |
| 20:54 | < RchrdB> | I feel old |
| 20:54 | <@Tamber> | Just a little less than 10 years~ |
| 20:54 | <@Tamber> | only just |
| 20:54 | <&[R]> | https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/random_number_b.html |
| 20:55 | <&[R]> | "Seems that the bug was introduced in September 2006." |
| 20:55 | <&[R]> | Just a few months older than 10 years. |
| 20:55 | < RchrdB> | to be fair to Debian, the code they were touching was a clusterfuck on every level |
| 20:55 | <&[R]> | In a month it'll be 11 years. |
| 20:56 | < RchrdB> | this was prior to heartbleed et al, so the fact that openssl was a huge steaming pile at the time wasn't a widely disseminated fact |
| 20:56 | <@Tamber> | Proving that, if you want people to actually pay any attention whatsoever to bugs, you have to give them a snappy marketable name~ |
| 20:57 | <&McMartin> | goto fail was one of the ones that *wasn't* OpenSSL, right? |
| 20:57 | < RchrdB> | yep |
| 20:57 | <&McMartin> | I remember SSL generally just being a disaster around that time |
| 20:57 | < RchrdB> | gotofail was gnutls |
| 20:57 | < RchrdB> | wait no |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | apple's something? |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | Which probably means some BSD variant somewhere... |
| 20:58 | < RchrdB> | gotofail was Apple? there was a different gnutls one a bit more recently |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, GNU TLS had some disasters around that time too, I remember |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | And then after that, Shell Shock, which had gone undetected for 25 years |
| 20:59 | < RchrdB> | SecureTransport. It's not BSD code, you can tell from the name. BSD people don't like uppercase. ;) |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | That was about the time I stopped hearing from free software zealots about how security bugs cannot survive in FLOSS code because of all the people checking the code all the time |
| 21:00 | < RchrdB> | my favourite one by far is the Java SSL state machine bug |
| 21:01 | < RchrdB> | because of some unwise choices re: using inheritance because it was cool, the standard Java SSL implementation for a long time shipped with a bug where the FSM for dealing with all the different stages of negotiating an SSL connection allowed some transitions that it shouldn't have |
| 21:02 | < RchrdB> | including transitioning directly to the "certificate accepted, everything is good to go" state without ever submitting a certificate, valid or otherwise |
| 21:03 | <&[R]> | O.o |
| 21:04 | < RchrdB> | https://mitls.org/pages/attacks/SMACK |
| 21:04 | < RchrdB> | way better logo than heartbleed! ;) |
| 21:07 | < RchrdB> | I had a vague memory of there being a really funny gnutls bug that was similar to gotofail |
| 21:08 | < RchrdB> | maybe this was it? https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2009-2730/ |
| 21:08 | < RchrdB> | use of strcmp() instead of memcmp() when comparing names in certificates, leading gnutls to fail to check anything after a null byte |
| 21:10 | < RchrdB> | ah no I was thinking of this one http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-0092 |
| 21:10 | <&[R]> | I like how pretty much no-one rants about all the warts the c stdlib has |
| 21:11 | <&[R]> | Unless those warts show up in PHP |
| 21:11 | < RchrdB> | yeah |
| 21:11 | <@Tamber> | That's because PHP is supposed to be a higher level language, I guess. If you were writing in C, then you'd expect all of that. |
| 21:12 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-klgs3m.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:12 | <&[R]> | Sure, but PHP's exposure of the C stdlib kind of made adopting it easier for me |
| 21:13 | < RchrdB> | I think of the C stdlib as basically just being a huge pile of "literally the first thing to pop into the heads of any one of Ritchie, Kernighan or Ken Thompson |
| 21:13 | <&[R]> | creat() |
| 21:13 | < RchrdB> | creat() is meh |
| 21:13 | < RchrdB> | gets() is fucking embarrassing |
| 21:14 | < RchrdB> | and it's full of shit like atoi() with literally no mechanism to report errors |
| 21:15 | < RchrdB> | the OpenBSD peeps talk a lot about fixing huge swathes of security vulns in their code just by deprecating badly thought out functions from the stdlib and propagating the use of better alternatives |
| 21:16 | < RchrdB> | Microsoft had a whole thing about this at one point too but they kinda blog less ;) |
| 21:17 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-klgs3m.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 21:21 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:25 | | Degi_ [Degi@Nightstar-klgs3m.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 21:25 | | Degi_ [Degi@Nightstar-klgs3m.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | The man page for gets(3) is a fine piece of performance art |
| 21:44 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:02 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] |
| 22:04 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 22:04 | | mode/#code [+o Reiv] by ChanServ |
| 23:28 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] |
| 23:30 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-9p7hb1.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:30 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:30 | | mode/#code [+o Reiv] by ChanServ |
| 23:40 | | starkruzr [quassel@Nightstar-jo8sru.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 23:40 | | starkruzr [quassel@Nightstar-jo8sru.fios.verizon.net] has joined #code |
| 23:41 | | mode/#code [+ao starkruzr starkruzr] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Thu Aug 17 00:00:06 2017 |