| --- Log opened Tue Oct 04 00:00:12 2016 |
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| 04:28 | | * McMartin is reminded that he still hasn't set up a proper alias for "git gud" |
| 05:09 | <@celticminstrel> | What's that supposed to do? :P |
| 05:10 | | * celticminstrel suddenly wonders what "git god" would do... |
| 05:13 | <&McMartin> | Not being sure what to make it do is part of the reason I haven't made the alias :P |
| 05:20 | <~Vornicus> | clearly it should offer a link to a git book |
| 05:20 | <&McMartin> | That or do a history-rewriting rebase~ |
| 05:32 | | mac is now known as macdjord |
| 05:39 | <&McMartin> | Also, I've realized that I should probably write up either the WinCCA project or the project I haven't done yet that is the successor to it. |
| 05:39 | <&McMartin> | Just so I can title the article "Giving the Nod to GDI" |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | Also also |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | I don't have many old Windows installs anymore |
| 05:41 | <&McMartin> | But I don't suppose anyone has an old 32-bit XP machine or VM they wouldn't mind trying to run that in |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | (I know it won't run on anything older than XP because I was lazy and used the actually decent RNG that was added in XP) |
| 05:45 | <&McMartin> | OTOH, if I reimplement that to use the libc functions, and then also rewrite it to use the old pre-Unicode APIs, it might actually run on Win98. o_O |
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| 06:36 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of o_O: I still have my old Win98 install CD, and its Certificate of Authenticity. Both still work! |
| 07:00 | <@abudhabi> | So, uh, is Brave a good browser? I hear good things about it. |
| 07:01 | <~Vornicus> | I hear no things about it |
| 07:02 | <@simon> | I also hear no things about it. |
| 07:02 | <&McMartin> | Me either |
| 07:03 | <&McMartin> | Win98 trip report: none of my programs that targeted Windows worked |
| 07:03 | <&McMartin> | The DOS ones did though! |
| 07:03 | <@simon> | it is advertised to have built-in adblocking. not sure that's necessary, but ok, a good feature is worth perfecting. then it says it will support micropayments and "better ads". |
| 07:03 | <@simon> | people who think they can give me better ads usually can't. |
| 07:04 | <@simon> | also, people who think thye can give me better ads are giving me ads, which I'm kind of trying to avoid by installing adblockers. not sure how they're going to improve an adblocker by making it show ads. |
| 07:05 | <@simon> | I'd like better support for micropayments in browsers, because I'm never using my bitcoins for anything. but I don't think the browser itself should have the support - my third-party wallet app on my phone should. and websites should just display QR codes. |
| 07:07 | <~Vornicus> | if the ad companies had any idea who they are trying to sell to with me they would not be giving me auto parts, beer, or christian rock ads. |
| 07:07 | <~Vornicus> | but that's about, oh, 2/3 of what I get |
| 07:09 | <@abudhabi> | I don't think I've purposefuly clicked an ad ever since I went through puberty. |
| 07:10 | < catadroid`> | I'm pretty sure I've clicked on an ad maybe once or twice |
| 07:11 | < catadroid`> | I went through a phase of them offering me wedding services and contraceptives and midwifery services :| |
| 07:11 | <@simon> | I have once in a while clicked the sponsored link at the top of google results whenever the company I was looking for was the first hit anyways. |
| 07:11 | <@simon> | catadroid`, heh, and then they stopped? |
| 07:12 | < catadroid`> | Or I stopped paying such close attention |
| 07:12 | <@abudhabi> | When I want to buy something, I seek it out and buy it. I resent being suggested to buy things I don't need. |
| 07:12 | <@simon> | I only ever notice the ads whenever I've been browsing for something, like a new winter coat, and then suddenly there's coat ads everywhere. |
| 07:13 | < catadroid`> | I also resent that |
| 07:13 | | catadroid` is now known as catadroid |
| 07:13 | | gizmore|2 [kvirc@Nightstar-tcl3dl.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #code |
| 07:14 | < catadroid> | Especially when the thing is BE NORMAL, WOMAN |
| 07:14 | | gizmore [kvirc@Nightstar-jsauup.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:15 | <@simon> | changing gender to woman on facebook is a big eye-opener wrt. targeted ads. |
| 07:16 | <@simon> | targeted ads can never get my needs right. but then again, neither can almost anyone who buys me birthday presents. |
| 07:17 | <&McMartin> | Is it truly reasonable to expect a robot to outperform humans, then?~ |
| 07:17 | <@simon> | I got two potted plants that need daily attention. I'm giving those away. one person gave me exactly what I'd requested, which was nothing. :) |
| 07:17 | <@simon> | well, if a robot shows me no ads, they've got it pretty much right. |
| 07:17 | < catadroid> | I'm down with that |
| 07:18 | < catadroid> | To be fair, Facebook has been showing me ads related to industrial music lately |
| 07:18 | < catadroid> | So whatever |
| 07:19 | <@simon> | I also got a tetris-shaped night lamp: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f034/ -- that's kind of cute. but actually, my sister is the tetris champion, so I don't know why I got it. |
| 07:19 | <@simon> | catadroid, that's not too bad. |
| 07:21 | <@simon> | fun fact: all American presidents since WWII have been presidents at the same time as Queen Elizabeth II was queen of England. |
| 07:21 | <@simon> | looks like that's about ten presidents. |
| 07:23 | < catadroid> | Well, yes |
| 07:23 | <&McMartin> | Truly, the Elizabethan Era has been long and wondrous |
| 07:23 | <&McMartin> | She's also pretty well-regarded |
| 07:23 | < catadroid> | Although she'll probably die during this brexit nonsense |
| 07:23 | | * catadroid runs away to Canada |
| 07:24 | <&McMartin> | As for the remainder of royal gossip, my take as an American was that we fought a revolution specifically so that I wouldn't have to care about it |
| 07:24 | <~Vornicus> | truman eisenhower kennedy johnson nixon ford carter reagan bush clinton bush obama. twelve. |
| 07:24 | < catadroid> | You guys are way more fascinated by our royal tax warts than we are |
| 07:25 | <&McMartin> | A thing I do not understand when it arises |
| 07:25 | <&McMartin> | Except for specific obviously worthy incidents, like that time she demonstrated her WWII stunt driving skills with the king of Saudi Arabia as a passenger |
| 07:26 | < catadroid> | People like celebrity |
| 07:27 | < catadroid> | The British royal family are essentially high profile celebrities and wrapped in myth and ceremony |
| 07:27 | < catadroid> | And also generally harmless (just right now) |
| 07:28 | <&McMartin> | I've actually forgotten if they manage to turn a profit on their holdings (re: "tax warts") |
| 07:28 | <&McMartin> | I know some monarchs manage it |
| 07:28 | < catadroid> | Oh they make a huge amount of money |
| 07:28 | <&McMartin> | But I still get the "ick, monarchy" reaction that was carefully indoctrinated into me as a Son of the Republic, etc. |
| 07:29 | < catadroid> | I feel like they're a frustratingly necessary part of the political machinery |
| 07:29 | < catadroid> | British politics is about as bizarre as you would expect though |
| 07:29 | < catadroid> | (also I would rather they were not) |
| 07:30 | < catadroid> | It occurs to me that royal assent is an actual process step in the US |
| 07:30 | <&McMartin> | By which you mean the head of state signing vs. vetoing a bill passed by both chambers? |
| 07:31 | <@simon> | catadroid, in Scandinavian that's equivalent to running away to Norway. :) |
| 07:31 | < catadroid> | Heh |
| 07:31 | <&McMartin> | simon: Hey, that can be enough! |
| 07:31 | < catadroid> | I live in the UK :p |
| 07:31 | <@simon> | McMartin, some people go as far as Svalbard, but that's technically still Norway. |
| 07:31 | <@simon> | catadroid, oh :) sorry. |
| 07:31 | < catadroid> | Yeah, I'm pretty sorry too |
| 07:32 | <@simon> | haha |
| 07:32 | <&McMartin> | harsh |
| 07:32 | <@simon> | I mean, sorry I got it wrong. |
| 07:32 | <@abudhabi> | One day, the Norwegians will buy back Orkney! :V |
| 07:32 | <@simon> | I bet they're just waiting for the entire EU economy to sink and then they'll buy Germany! |
| 07:33 | < catadroid> | McMartin: this place is going to shit once it exits the EU and as someone queer on basically every scale I don't want to be here |
| 07:33 | <&McMartin> | simon: My reaction was based on thinking you meant "But that's still part of the Commonwealth!" |
| 07:33 | <@simon> | catadroid, you think it'll be bad? I had the impression that it wouldn't make a big difference. |
| 07:33 | <&McMartin> | catadroid: I don't question your judgement on this one |
| 07:33 | < catadroid> | It won't make a difference to anyone except the people living here |
| 07:33 | <&McMartin> | simon: It's a question of "will this increase the chances of being beated at random on the street" |
| 07:33 | < catadroid> | ^ |
| 07:34 | <@abudhabi> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney#Scottish_rule |
| 07:34 | <@abudhabi> | >In 1468 Orkney was pledged by Christian I, in his capacity as king of Norway, as security against the payment of the dowry of his daughter Margaret, betrothed to James III of Scotland. As the money was never paid, the connection with the crown of Scotland has become perpetual. |
| 07:34 | < catadroid> | ._o |
| 07:34 | < catadroid> | Mmkay |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | Like, I have several friends in mixed-race marriages, here in the US, and a Trump victory will restrict their in-country movement even more than it already is. |
| 07:34 | <@abudhabi> | >Apparently without the knowledge of the Norwegian Rigsraadet (Council of the Realm), Christian pawned Orkney for 50,000 Rhenish guilders. On 28 May the next year he also pawned Shetland for 8,000 Rhenish guilders.[71] He secured a clause in the contract that gave future kings of Norway the right to redeem the islands for a fixed sum of 210 kg of gold or 2,310 kg of silver. Several attempts were made during |
| 07:34 | <@abudhabi> | the 17th and 18th centuries to redeem the islands, without success. |
| 07:34 | | * Vornicus married a mexican, 'nuff said |
| 07:35 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: I would actually like to count you amongst those several bonuses^Wfriends |
| 07:35 | | * Vornicus is not bulgarian though! |
| 07:35 | <&McMartin> | It's a Markov thing |
| 07:35 | < catadroid> | You're a Markov thing |
| 07:35 | <~Vornicus> | your FACE is a markov thing |
| 07:36 | <&McMartin> | Why is it you think I am a FACE is a markov thing you're a |
| 07:36 | <@abudhabi> | You're all just markov chain generators sent here to confuse me! |
| 07:36 | <@simon> | hehe. |
| 07:36 | <~Vornicus> | abudhabi: you know it |
| 07:36 | <@simon> | glitch in the matrix |
| 07:37 | | * McMartin - coming at you LIVE and DIRECT |
| 07:37 | | * catadroid checks if she's a less heavy Markov generator today |
| 07:38 | < catadroid> | Sadly not |
| 07:38 | < catadroid> | Ah well |
| 07:40 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile AAAAAA |
| 07:40 | <&McMartin> | I have a working Win98 environment and UNIX-mountable floppy disks |
| 07:41 | <@jeroud> | Hello. How is everyone? |
| 07:42 | <@jeroud> | catadroid: Come live in ZA. We have lots of rights and support for people with nonstandard gender. |
| 07:42 | | * McMartin wanders off to do his Duolingo drills before it is too late. |
| 07:42 | <@jeroud> | I had a somewhat disconcerting experience yesterday. |
| 07:43 | <@jeroud> | I invited an old friend (who moved to the US but is back for a conference) to office lunch. He brought his friend and colleague with him. |
| 07:44 | <@jeroud> | I'd never met this friend and colleague, but had heard good things. |
| 07:45 | <@jeroud> | Then they arrived and I *had* met the friend and colleague, many times, except only under her previous name and gender. |
| 07:47 | <@Pi> | Trans people: It's more likely than you think. |
| 07:48 | | * Vornicus gives jeroud a cheese |
| 07:48 | <@jeroud> | Which brings the number of gender-chang{ing,ed} friends in the industry up to "I've lost count". |
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| 07:48 | <@Pi> | jeroud: :D |
| 07:48 | <~Vornicus> | I've lost count of gender- changing people in this damn *channel* |
| 07:48 | <@jeroud> | Pi: This was meep, btw. |
| 07:48 | <@jeroud> | Vornicus: Yes, but the internet is different. |
| 07:49 | <@jeroud> | This is in meatspace. |
| 07:52 | <@jeroud> | Anyway, the disconcertina wasn't the transitude as much as the sudden revelation that this person I'd heard about is actually this other person I already know under a different name. |
| 07:53 | <@abudhabi> | Vornicus: Same. |
| 07:55 | < catadroid> | jeroud: my gender is pretty standard |
| 07:57 | <@abudhabi> | You're NOT a trigender pyrofox?! |
| 07:59 | <@jeroud> | catadroid: I've typed three different responses to that, and all of them made me look like an idiot or the enemy or both. |
| 07:59 | <@Pi> | jeroud: Off topic, but "disconcertina" sounds like an awesome musical instrument. |
| 07:59 | <@simon> | I went past my ex a couple of weeks ago to lend her the new Harry Potter book, and she warned me that she had friends over whom I knew under a past gender, and that I should be polite and not call them by their former name. that's the first time I experienced that forgetting someone's name was a blessing and not a curse. ;-) |
| 07:59 | <@Pi> | simon: :D |
| 07:59 | <@jeroud> | So I'm going to just accept that I'm probably an idiot and go take my meds. |
| 08:00 | <@simon> | (also, I'd taught her in two courses, so it really was kind of embarrassing that I couldn't remember.) |
| 08:00 | <@Pi> | jeroud: S'ok. You're cool. :) |
| 08:00 | | * catadroid tends to assume that everyone is the enemy until proven otherwise |
| 08:00 | < catadroid> | It's tiring |
| 08:01 | < catadroid> | But sadly necessary for my sanity :< |
| 08:01 | <@Pi> | I assume everyone's friend until proven otherwise. |
| 08:01 | <@simon> | also, I've gone from ironically describing my gender as two-spirit (because facebook allows that) to considering myself a cyborg (cf. Donna Haraway's Cyborg Manifesto) |
| 08:01 | | * Vornicus assumes everyone is robot until proven otherwise |
| 08:01 | <~Vornicus> | ...apparently that works just fine for simon~ |
| 08:01 | <@simon> | Pi, I assume everyone's a glider until they leave traces, at which point I consider them a spaceship. |
| 08:01 | <~Vornicus> | that's a puffer |
| 08:02 | <@simon> | ah yes :) |
| 08:02 | <@jeroud> | Pi: I was searching for the correct grammatical form of "disconcert", and it popped into my head. It was too good not to use. |
| 08:02 | < catadroid> | For example, this conversation about gender and how important it is to be allowed to express yours is entirely trivialised by 'ironically' picking an obviously silly one |
| 08:02 | <@Pi> | catadroid: That is really sucky, yeah. |
| 08:03 | < catadroid> | Which makes me, honestly, afraid to express some things whilst apparently it's okay to make fun of |
| 08:03 | <@simon> | catadroid, well, I'm not two-spirit. I befriended someone once who stalked me and asked me, wow, are you really two-spirit? because she'd been obsessed with native american culture and actually thought highly of this gender. and I had to disappoint her and said that it was just my objection to specifying a gender at all. but being a cyborg is a serious thing for me. |
| 08:04 | < catadroid> | Do you expect to be taken seriously after making light of it? |
| 08:04 | <@Pi> | simon: It's good that you dropped that. |
| 08:04 | < catadroid> | Two-spirit is probably cultural appropriation, but it's definitely a trans affirming identity in that culture |
| 08:04 | <@simon> | catadroid, I don't expect to be taken seriously until after I've written my zine on my interpretation of cyborg. |
| 08:05 | <@Pi> | It's easy to make mistakes like that when you don't understand the culture or context yet. (I've done plenty of that. xP) |
| 08:05 | < catadroid> | I just want to be taken seriously when I seriously tell someone who I am and hope they don't kick me out of their community or otherwise hurt me |
| 08:05 | <@simon> | catadroid, for now it's just a funny thing I say to people so I can talk about cyborg feminism. |
| 08:05 | <@Pi> | But there's also a difference between a relatively innocent mistake and an actual intentionally mean-spirited and hurtful act. |
| 08:06 | <@simon> | catadroid, okay. well, I'm sorry that I left the impression that I don't affirm of any gender identity. |
| 08:06 | <@jeroud> | catadroid: I think you may need to apply Hanlon's Razor a little more, but this is one of those areas where incompetence and malice are really hard to differentiate. |
| 08:06 | <@simon> | Pi, there might be, but it's really a thing for the person being hurt to decide. |
| 08:07 | <@Pi> | Yeah. But easy way to tell the difference is how you respond to being called out on bad behaviour: do you try to understand, change what's necessary, apologise, and move on, or double down and start a fight? |
| 08:08 | <@simon> | sure |
| 08:08 | <@jeroud> | Also, incompetence can be as destructive as malice. |
| 08:10 | < catadroid> | jeroud: my point is that anything that makes light of something makes it less serious regardless of if it was intended to |
| 08:11 | <@jeroud> | catadroid: Agreed. But then I can be a difficult person to talk to, because I tend to make light of *everything*. |
| 08:11 | <@jeroud> | (Because otherwise darkness.) |
| 08:11 | < catadroid> | Comedy is important |
| 08:12 | < catadroid> | I make stupid jokes too |
| 08:12 | <@jeroud> | I do try to consciously suppress that in serious conversations. |
| 08:13 | | * catadroid isn't having a wonderful week, I suppose |
| 08:13 | | * jeroud hugs. |
| 08:13 | | * Vornicus gives all involved cheeses |
| 08:13 | | * catadroid hugs |
| 08:17 | <@simon> | hugging could be thought of as an equivalence relation. |
| 08:17 | <@jeroud> | catadroid: Anyway, on a more serious note, if you ever decide to leave the UK Cape Town is a good place to go. Except Canada would probably be a rather better choice for you personally. |
| 08:18 | <~Vornicus> | re: ads, I also get ones about shipping interfaces. Which I guess makes sense. |
| 08:18 | <@jeroud> | simon: One can be hugged without hugging back. |
| 08:19 | <@simon> | d'oh. |
| 08:19 | <@jeroud> | Vornicus: I parsed "shipping interfaces" three different ways in quick succession, probably all wrong. |
| 08:19 | <@simon> | I only nailed reflexive and transitive. |
| 08:20 | <~Vornicus> | I don't think hugging is transitive |
| 08:20 | <@simon> | group hug? |
| 08:20 | <@jeroud> | Also, YouTube has decided that I need to see lots of ads about Siemens medical imagers. |
| 08:21 | <@simon> | although a group hug doesn't actually constitute a group under hugging. it should be called a monoidal hug. |
| 08:21 | <~Vornicus> | wtf, man |
| 08:21 | <@simon> | :D |
| 08:21 | <@simon> | no, a semigroup hug |
| 08:21 | <@simon> | I don't assume that most groups that hug actually have identities. |
| 08:22 | <~Vornicus> | okay for one thing, hugging isn't transitive. I have never, for instance, hugged Madonna, but I've hugged someone who's hugged someone who's hugged Madonna. |
| 08:22 | <@jeroud> | Because I'm equipping a hospital and this is made apparent by the Forgotten Weapons and CGP Grey videos I've been watching a lot of recently. |
| 08:22 | <@simon> | Vornicus, I mean, if you're hugging someone, and they're hugging someone else, you're sort of hugging them, too. |
| 08:22 | <@jeroud> | simon: Nope. |
| 08:23 | <~Vornicus> | For another thing, hugging isn't an operator; the result cannot itself hug |
| 08:24 | <@simon> | sets closed under an operator don't have to be sets of operators. |
| 08:25 | <~Vornicus> | so the result of a hug cannot be in a set with hugging attached as an operator |
| 08:25 | <~Vornicus> | Which makes hugging not closed on any set |
| 08:26 | <@simon> | well, okay, it's not very precise. I admit that applying abstract algebra to the real world cuts a bit. like thinking of soups as a monoid closed under stirring is imprecise, because you can't arbitrarily add water and still call it soup. |
| 08:26 | <@jeroud> | This is the best conversation I've been in all day. |
| 08:26 | <@simon> | and a single person who isn't hugging anyone could technically be thought of as someone hugging themselves, but people rarely do that just because they can. |
| 08:26 | | * catadroid hugs her knees |
| 08:27 | | * jeroud embraces the ambiguity. |
| 08:27 | | * Vornicus hugs catadroid and her knees |
| 08:27 | <@simon> | catadroid, I see something isomorphic to S3! |
| 08:27 | | * jeroud stores some objects in the cloud. |
| 08:28 | | * simon clouds some objects in the store. |
| 08:28 | | * catadroid precipitates some objects from the cloud |
| 08:29 | <@simon> | I applied for a job in the food distribution industry. I'm done with HFT. |
| 08:29 | <@jeroud> | o/` It's raining bytes, hallelujah, it raining bytes o/` |
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| 08:30 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 08:33 | <@Pi> | jeroud: Regarding earlier, I think there's a very important difference between making light of something as in humour and comedy, and making light of something as in just being dismissive and negating. |
| 08:33 | <@Pi> | jeroud: Comedy is good. :) |
| 08:33 | <@Pi> | Humour is how we deal with things and stay alive. |
| 08:33 | <@Pi> | It's necessary. |
| 08:34 | <@jeroud> | Pi: The two overlap a *lot*. |
| 08:34 | <@Pi> | Sometimes. But also not. |
| 08:35 | <@jeroud> | They're not entirely equivalent, but still. |
| 08:35 | <@Pi> | For example, people going "My gender is an Apache Attack Helicopter" generally aren't engaging in comedy, but purely in an attempt to attack, reduce, and invalidate others. |
| 08:36 | <@Pi> | Maybe they overlap less than you might think, because you generally just don't engage in the latter kind of invalidation at all. |
| 08:36 | <@simon> | Pi, one thing I've thought about after reading the cyborg manifesto is to define oneself in terms of affinities rather than identities. it seems that saying "I'm a man, and so I'm not a woman" is different from saying "I like rollerblading", and still you can perfectly define yourself in terms of statements like the latter. saying I'm not two-spirit, for example, might seem funny, but I'm defining myself in te |
| 08:36 | <@simon> | rms of how a minority looks like, making that minority stand out, which is really unintentional when, in fact, it has very little to do with me. |
| 08:37 | <@Pi> | simon: Right, identities are ultimately just reference points. Navigation beacons, if you will. |
| 08:37 | <@jeroud> | Pi: No, my experience has been that a lot of stuff that's legitimate humour in one setting is seen as dismissive in another. |
| 08:37 | <@jeroud> | Unfortunately, I don't have a good example right now. |
| 08:37 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 08:37 | <@Pi> | I dunno. I usually see them as pretty clearly distinct. |
| 08:38 | <@jeroud> | Pi: There's a spectrum. |
| 08:38 | <@simon> | Pi, I've thought that when you say "I'm X, where X belongs to the set of ...", I want those sets to be constructive, i.e. none of my definitions must depend on set complements for ill-defined sets (like gender identities) :P |
| 08:38 | <@jeroud> | The ends are very distinct. |
| 08:39 | <@Pi> | jeroud: Yeah, but I think it's a wide and sparse one. |
| 08:39 | <@simon> | Pi, so basically I'm lifting political correctness to a level where it's completely incomprehensible. |
| 08:40 | <@Pi> | simon: Oh, I think that the closer you look, the more fuzzy things become. By implication, usually the only way to make sense of things is to step back a bit and blur your eyes to try and see the big picture in context. |
| 08:40 | <@Pi> | Speaking loosely. :) |
| 08:40 | <@simon> | saying "I'm a man" only makes sense because you have a notion of the set's complement, and it doesn't have one. |
| 08:41 | <@Pi> | Eh, I think it makes perfect sense without its complement. |
| 08:41 | <@simon> | saying "I like rollerblading" makes sense because your audience doesn't assume there is a well-defined set of all possible activities. |
| 08:41 | <@jeroud> | Pi: If I do that, I can't differentiate between you and Hodgestar. Because my eyes are poor. |
| 08:41 | <@simon> | I don't know what a man is, because it clearly isn't just someone with a penis who can impregnate women. |
| 08:42 | <@Pi> | (I also don't think it even makes sense to think of a complement, really; I see masculinity and femininity just as two statistical hills on a landscape.) |
| 08:43 | <@Pi> | simon: I can define masculinity without any reference to genitalia. :) |
| 08:43 | <@Pi> | Most people probably can, if prodded. |
| 08:43 | <@simon> | so being a man is being masculine? |
| 08:43 | <@Pi> | It's a set of social things. |
| 08:43 | <@simon> | I've gotta tell a lot of butch ladies that ;) |
| 08:43 | <@Pi> | Yes, by definition. |
| 08:43 | <@jeroud> | I can define it in terms of lumberjacks. |
| 08:43 | <@simon> | lumberjacks can't be women? |
| 08:44 | <@Pi> | simon: Being a man is being masculine, but being masculine doesn't imply being a man. |
| 08:44 | <@jeroud> | That was a joke. I'm mostly referencing the Monty Python song. |
| 08:44 | <@simon> | and yeah, clearly the hormones that invoke masculine and feminine behavior have a much bigger influence on our behavior than most other hormones, so I think it makes sense to talk about the landscape of those. definitely. but talking about masculine/feminine behavior is something very different, for me, than talking about fixed genders. |
| 08:44 | <@Pi> | simon: Put another way, "Man" is the hill on the statistical landscape; "masculine" is the direction toward that hill, from any given point. |
| 08:44 | <@simon> | fixed genders is a construct we use to feel socially comfortable. |
| 08:45 | <@simon> | for me, that is. |
| 08:45 | <@Pi> | jeroud: :D |
| 08:45 | | * Pi hums that song |
| 08:45 | <@Pi> | Apropos. |
| 08:45 | <@simon> | Pi, I'd say "Man" is the label on the pin you put on that landscape. :) not sure if that's a big difference. |
| 08:46 | <@simon> | s/landscape/hill/ |
| 08:46 | <@Pi> | simon: Right, I think we mean the same thing. |
| 08:47 | <@simon> | "male" might more appropriately be used to describe biology-like stuff. "man" is so many other things that have nothing to do with our hormonal levels. |
| 08:48 | <@simon> | and even "male" being a biology-like thing, I'm honestly not sure about. the things we take the most for granted are hard to differentiate. socialize around enough trans and intersex people and I realize how little you really depend on those notions of gender. they're mainly used to assert one's social position, is my experience. |
| 08:49 | <@simon> | I think Turing-complete is a more defining feature than my genitalia :D |
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| 08:56 | <@Pi> | Eh, I just try to disambiguate things in context. |
| 08:56 | <@Pi> | If I mean male/female biology, I just say "male/female biology" |
| 08:57 | | Erik [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-ph8r12.cust.telenor.com] has joined #code |
| 08:57 | <@Pi> | No need to give overly specific meanings to very general terms. |
| 08:59 | < Erik> | We are currently between test cycles at work. Last major build is polished down to the subversion, new major build brewing elsewhere that will be shipped to us cubicle peasants sometime during the week, so there are idle hands. And whiteboards. |
| 09:00 | <@simon> | running tests in parallel at work causes "X has been chosen as the deadlock victim." as a casual, random reason for failing because of database locks. |
| 09:00 | | Pink [user1@Nightstar-g7hdo5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 09:00 | < Erik> | So an abortive attempt at mission statement drawing, "HERE AT BigCo, WE ARE DOERS" has gotten its empty bits filled out with sentences like "WE ARE CAKE EATERS", "WE ARE... sometimes", "WE ARE LOAFERS". |
| 09:01 | <@simon> | Erik, when are the bits empty for filling out? |
| 09:02 | < Erik> | simon: When someone begins drawing Awesome Motivational Mission Statement on an overly large whiteboard, doesn't have that many motivational sentences in mind, and leaves the markers out. |
| 09:02 | <@simon> | also, what does it mean "to be... sometimes"? to be present? or simply to only exist once in a while? :P |
| 09:02 | <@simon> | ahhh. |
| 09:02 | <~Vornicus> | the world and the children at the same time |
| 09:03 | <@simon> | we have some whiteboards that are occasionally filled out by math. if it's been hanging for a while, someone goes in and replaces certain symbols with silly stuff (kindly using other colors to signify that it actually changed) |
| 09:06 | <@simon> | Pi, did you ever review haskellbook.com? I bought it for a good cause and am really enjoying how much intermediate stuff I can learn from it. |
| 09:06 | < Erik> | One of the !fun! things about testing BigApp on every plausible mobile platform is running into Out Of Memory issues on older phones. |
| 09:07 | <~Vornicus> | Erik: oh god |
| 09:07 | <@Pi> | simon: Not yet. |
| 09:07 | < Erik> | Vornicus: Oh yes. "Issues" meaning that it doesn't error cleanly, oh no, first the phone conscientously attempts to swap out everything it can and allocate maximum memory to BigApp. So you get weird stalls and slowdowns... which are hard to replicate. |
| 09:08 | < Erik> | Because trying to do them again immediately, well, now all memory is allocated to BigApp. |
| 09:08 | <~Vornicus> | So, on android at least, the browser and the filepicker that the browser uses when you're filling in an upload field are two separate processes |
| 09:08 | < Erik> | And then sometimes it runs out of memory anyway and the app dies or freezes. |
| 09:08 | <~Vornicus> | on my old phone, an otherwise blank page with an upload field on it would, when you start picking a file, swap out the browser |
| 09:09 | < Erik> | ahahahaha |
| 09:09 | <~Vornicus> | So when you finish picking your file you get back to the browser and... ...the page refreshes, and it forgets what file you picked |
| 09:09 | <@simon> | haha |
| 09:11 | < Erik> | I also get the impression that the Cross-Platform Department is doing really dark arts. |
| 09:11 | <@simon> | Pi, for example, it has a pretty good guide on when to pick the right array type (which, it says, is usually the immutable Vector). when I was playing with arrays, I was pretty deep into the ST monad and mutable arrays before I realized that that was overkill for the DP problem I was looking at. |
| 09:13 | < Erik> | I just test on every platform. They supposedly have this ridiculous Rube Goldberg process that evolved over time for how to get minimal appcode expanded to maximum mobile functionality on iOS 8 through 10, Android 4 through 6, and Windows how-do-I-count. |
| 09:15 | < Erik> | It's kinda like dark matter: I cannot observe the process directly, but I can infer its presence and something about its behavior when I find four typos in the text of the current Android release, and three of those same typos and one different typo in the text of the current iOS release. |
| 09:17 | < Erik> | Reference texts to use are kept on a wiki maintained by some third group separate from both me and the Cross-Platform Department. Procedure for reporting such typos involves filing defects in a defect tracking system maintained by a fourth group that communicates with us all... |
| 09:17 | | * simon is unsure he wants to work in such a big corp. |
| 09:18 | <@simon> | it doesn't even sound that bad. just very complex. |
| 09:18 | < Erik> | It isn't that bad. Just very slow. |
| 09:18 | < Erik> | You would be lucky to ever get anything resolved the same day it comes up. |
| 09:24 | < Erik> | Ask your doctor whether using HP Application Lifecycle Management would be right for you. It is a great tool here. You might look at it and think it's overengineered as hell. Maybe two hells, even. |
| 09:28 | | * Erik sees idle vandal at the whiteboard adding Norwegian pun on "In BigCo We Trust". |
| 09:29 | <@simon> | at work we have a production branch named after that quarter. every quarter a new branch is created from trunk, and we merge onto that instead. is that a common practice? it seems to be a workaround because the two get desynchronized when they shouldn't be. |
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| 09:31 | <@simon> | Erik, so long as they don't write THE CAKE IS A LIE |
| 09:31 | <@simon> | everyone should be safe. |
| 09:32 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep |
| 09:33 | < Erik> | I think that meme is dead, no worries. Can't answer on the question of branches, I'm not in the branching department here. |
| 09:45 | <@simon> | I used to be, but we branched off. |
| 09:45 | <@simon> | o_o |
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| 10:45 | < Erik> | Whiteboard status: "WE ARE DOERS" altered to "WE ARE DOORS"; Norwegian flag drawn on the BigCo Rocket representing ascending excellence in service or something. This board is going to be a circus by the end of the week at this rate. |
| 10:46 | <@simon> | Erik, doors aren't a bad metaphor. |
| 10:47 | < Erik> | Go on? |
| 10:47 | <@abudhabi> | WE ARE A CIRCUS |
| 10:52 | <@simon> | Erik, well, it beats the whole cloud metaphor. who wants anything that is the product of humidity, goes where the wind blows and easily evaporates. |
| 10:55 | < catadroid`> | The NSA? |
| 10:57 | <@simon> | I'm sure massive virtualization makes logging into other people's remote servers is somewhat easier :P |
| 10:57 | | * simon had three packages delivered to his work today. I feel like everyone judges me for shopping too much online. |
| 10:58 | <@simon> | I'm pretty sure they don't care, actually. |
| 11:01 | <@simon> | I got the book Body of Glass by Marge Piercy. it's a anarchist sci-fi love story about a golem and a cyborg who protect each their city 500 years apart. it's supposedly Mary Shelley meets Ursula Le Guin. haven't read it yet, though. |
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| 13:32 | | * Emmy tickety tacks on a keyboard and applies the infinite monkeys method to coding. |
| 13:36 | <@abudhabi> | You have infinite monkeys? |
| 13:37 | <@Emmy> | No, but i suspect infinite human stupidity will suffice. |
| 13:38 | <@Emmy> | Also, I'm going for functional, not perfect shakespeare. :P |
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| 13:45 | <@simon> | does anyone here have a decent laptop sleeve that fits an X1? I'd like if it were quite protective, like a foam, not just cloth. |
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| 13:46 | <@Emmy> | an x1? |
| 13:47 | <@Tarinaky> | DAE have any insight into when an algorithm can expect to see a speed increase from being implemented in the GPU as a Shader? Presumably there's an overhead associated with the bus? |
| 13:47 | <@Tarinaky> | s/DAE/Does anyone/ |
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| 13:49 | <@Tarinaky> | It's a lot easier to find info on 'how' rather than 'should'. |
| 14:49 | <@simon> | Emmy, Lenovo X1 Carbon. :) |
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| 15:00 | <@Emmy> | simon: something like this? https://www.caselogic.com/en/international/products/laptop/sleeves/ibira-14-lapt op-sleeve-_-ibrs_-_114_-_black |
| 15:00 | <@Emmy> | or https://www.caselogic.com/en/international/products/laptop/sleeves/14-laptop-sle eve-_-laps_-_114_-_graphite |
| 15:01 | <@Emmy> | I myself got this one in the 13.3" variant: https://www.caselogic.com/en/international/products/laptop/sleeves/15-macbook-pr o-sculpted-sleeve-_-lhs_-_115_-_black |
| 15:01 | <@Emmy> | sadly the latter doesn't have a 14" variant. |
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| 16:02 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/SciBry/status/782310453766680576 |
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| 19:32 | <&McMartin> | Today in alarming names in the C++ standard library |
| 19:32 | <&McMartin> | http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/hardware_destructive_interference_size |
| 19:33 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Waiting for the generation of computers that will provide reinterpret_solder |
| 19:33 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 19:33 | <&McMartin> | What it *actually* is is the size of the L1 cache line |
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| --- Log closed Wed Oct 05 00:00:27 2016 |