| --- Log opened Fri Mar 18 00:00:44 2016 |
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| 00:36 | < starkruzr> | moo |
| 00:40 | <@Reiv> | guys |
| 00:40 | <@Reiv> | I want to develop |
| 00:41 | <@Reiv> | But everywhere I go it feels like the instructions start "To build a chair, first construct the house to put it in" |
| 00:41 | <~Vornicus> | Oh yeah. |
| 00:41 | <~Vornicus> | Got a project in mind? |
| 00:42 | <@Reiv> | And I look at my hammer and saw and forteen feet of timber and go "... but I wanted a chair" |
| 00:42 | <@Reiv> | I do |
| 00:42 | <@Reiv> | My first Grand Achievement will be to make a hexagon grid. |
| 00:42 | <@Reiv> | I've got the Best Tutorial On The Internet to help with the actual math on that part |
| 00:43 | <@Reiv> | But as noted, it seems one has to do an *awful* lot of scutwork to even get a floor to put it on |
| 00:43 | <&Derakon> | GameMaker, IMO. |
| 00:43 | <@Reiv> | This is supremely frustrating; it is the why-I'm-broken-at-learning-new-languages x100 |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | agreed |
| 00:43 | <&Derakon> | It seems to be the best-rated of the "get you up and running ASAP" systems. |
| 00:43 | <@Reiv> | How does that handle multiplayer networking? >_> |
| 00:43 | <~Vornicus> | oh fuck naw |
| 00:44 | <@Reiv> | how /well/, rather |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | ... |
| 00:44 | | * Reiv pthbt |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | Do you want real-time networking? |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | ...does it need to be r... |
| 00:44 | <@Reiv> | nah, turnbased is fine |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | It has a networking layer, actually. |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | Okay |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | Because if so, you have selected a...okay, good. |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | I don't know anything about it, but it has one |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, realtime networking is a "bring a professional team" kind of project. |
| 00:44 | <@Reiv> | I am not *completely* insane. |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | Personally I'd go Web. |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | Oh yeah, there's Construct 2D as well. |
| 00:44 | <@Reiv> | Web would be cool, but of /course/ you'd go web |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | That one's HTML5-based. |
| 00:44 | <@Reiv> | Just like I'd store stats in a database |
| 00:45 | <&McMartin> | Then there's Unity, but (a) that's a lot of hacking (b) assumes you have an art department (c) is garbage for HTML5 output |
| 00:45 | <@Reiv> | I am willing to consider this Construct 2D. Tell me more of it. |
| 00:45 | <@Reiv> | I looked into Unity |
| 00:45 | <&Derakon> | Unity is overkill for what you want. |
| 00:46 | <@Reiv> | It was approximately page three of How To Draw A Series Of Repeating Hexagons that I decided this might be a little too heavy for my personal needs at this time |
| 00:46 | <&Derakon> | It has all this crap you need to have to deal with that mystical ~third dimension~. |
| 00:46 | <@Reiv> | To be fair, I will probably want something akin to layers. |
| 00:46 | <&Derakon> | I know basically nothing of Construct 2D except that it was recommended to me when I asked about getting up and running with a 2D platforming game. |
| 00:46 | <&Derakon> | Layers are not 3D. |
| 00:47 | <@Reiv> | Sure; just sayin' |
| 00:47 | <@Reiv> | I have the best hack design ever |
| 00:47 | <@Reiv> | Putting the fundamentals of X-wing mechanics on a hexmap~ |
| 00:47 | <~Vornicus> | (why web: you already have the development environment on your computer, 10)% guaranteed |
| 00:48 | <@Reiv> | haha |
| 00:48 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 00:48 | <@Reiv> | And when doing multiplayer, you enjoy the Easiest Client To Share ever, sure |
| 00:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | I have played a bunch of quite good entirely 2d games written in UNity, so it's not a completely insane prospect |
| 00:49 | <~Vornicus> | I've also written a 2d game in unity, so |
| 00:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: writing the server is hope-you-like-nightmare-worlds, though |
| 00:49 | <&Derakon> | It's not, no, but there's a lot of stuff to sort through before you can really start. |
| 00:50 | <@Reiv> | The fundamental bit here is that this is a learning project that may actually have legs, and is unlikely to get me completely lost in terms of design quagmires because I can simply declare my default to be 'assume X-wing' |
| 00:50 | <@Reiv> | And, y'know, 2D, turnbased. |
| 00:50 | <&Derakon> | Keeping scope creep under control is a good idea. |
| 00:50 | <&Derakon> | On that note, I recommend implementing hotseat multiplayer first~ |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | ^ that |
| 00:51 | <@Reiv> | Yes, that's one advantage to running turnbased |
| 00:51 | <@Reiv> | Make it work with sequential local inputs, then worry about the networking later |
| 00:51 | <~Vornicus> | That also means no server yet |
| 00:51 | <@Reiv> | No |
| 00:52 | <@Reiv> | But you might want to design it so it *has* a server-friendly architecture. |
| 00:52 | <&Derakon> | That mostly amounts to having good separation between view and model. |
| 00:52 | <@Reiv> | Right |
| 00:52 | <@Reiv> | I figure X-wing is a good example for this, too |
| 00:52 | <~Vornicus> | If you then pick Node you already have the models written in your target language |
| 00:52 | <@Reiv> | Node? |
| 00:54 | <~Vornicus> | node js: server-side javascript. |
| 00:54 | <@Reiv> | ... so the first programming language I shall learn in a decade will be javascript. |
| 00:54 | | * Reiv starts giggling quietly. |
| 00:55 | <~Vornicus> | To be fair it's a solid start |
| 00:56 | <&Derakon> | Javascript is not a bad language. |
| 00:57 | <@Reiv> | Two questions |
| 00:57 | <&Derakon> | It just usually isn't found in the most pleasant of environments. |
| 00:57 | <@Reiv> | First, assumed-yes: How's it handle databases? |
| 00:57 | <&Derakon> | (the Document Object Model for webpages is annoying to work with) |
| 00:57 | <&Derakon> | You will not be talking directly to your database with javascript that runs on the client side. |
| 00:57 | <&Derakon> | That would be a security hole. |
| 00:57 | <@Reiv> | That would indeed be a security hole. |
| 00:58 | <@Reiv> | One would hope the server has capability thereof, though? |
| 00:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, JS has a lot of problems but most of them aren't problems with JS, they're problems with the fact that you're probably running it in the browser. >.< |
| 00:58 | <~Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 00:58 | <@Reiv> | Can you... not run it in the browser? |
| 00:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Just ask the Super Meat Boy devs, although that wasn't JS~ |
| 00:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: er |
| 00:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is the only thing you can run in the browser (that or languages that compile to it like clojurescript) |
| 00:59 | <&Derakon> | I think Reiv's asking if you could use Javascript for the server-side talk-to-the-DB stuff. |
| 00:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | The problem is that no two browsers agree precisely on how it runs or what APIs are available |
| 00:59 | <&Derakon> | And I don't know about that. |
| 00:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | The APIs that are available are garbage |
| 00:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | the DOM is a giant garbage fire |
| 00:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | and so forth |
| 00:59 | <@Reiv> | My question, rephrased |
| 00:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh. Pretty sure you can, hence this obsession with full-stack-js webapps |
| 00:59 | <~Vornicus> | Yes you can. nodejs has packages for all the major open source databases, from sqlite to postgres to shit like mongo |
| 01:00 | <@Reiv> | Can you write javascript that isn't expected to run in a browser and thus skip the horrible bits initially, if at the cost of it, y'know, not working in browsers yet |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | I mean that's the point of node |
| 01:00 | <@Reiv> | I am pleased you use the word 'shit' in connotation with 'mongo'~ |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | I've always wanted to go inspecting an existing program and discover it uses mongo just so I could say the line |
| 01:01 | <@Reiv> | the line? |
| 01:03 | <@Reiv> | Second: Does it do object oriented or am I going to have to think with portals |
| 01:04 | <~Vornicus> | "Oh shit, it's Mongo" |
| 01:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: JS is prototypical OO with some functional features and dynamic typing, yes. |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | Would you mind delving into a cliff notes on each of those particular word pairs? |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | In terms of what js is up with, I mean |
| 01:06 | <@Reiv> | (I know what OO and functional programing and dynamic typing are in general, I mean.) |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | Prototypical: It uses an inheritance model more like Self or, uh, Game Maker than the versions of OO you learned. |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | Types autocoerce the way Perl's do, which leads to the traditional hilarity |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | "Oh, you handed me a string, but I'll see if it adds to an integer anyway"? |
| 01:07 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah. |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Functional features are lifted directly from LISP and Scheme, but you have to be a little careful because having variables you actually *assign* instead of *rebind* ends up mattering more often than you'd think |
| 01:07 | <~Vornicus> | Basically that is one of The Bad Parts |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | Hilarity being "So, uh, you handed me 'rainbow' and added it to '12'." |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Oooh ooh, have you watched the Wat talk |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Because it's far more hilarious than that |
| 01:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oooo yes |
| 01:08 | <@Reiv> | I have seen no talks ever |
| 01:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ve d=0ahUKEwiKpNOJhsnLAhVkvYMKHUoxB7IQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.destroyallsoftw are.com%2Ftalks%2Fwat&usg=AFQjCNEfJYNH0sSZBC2-AxFMtuWCt-RyWw&sig2=cvI-orrAzHMU5a cl0zEGlQ |
| 01:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | what the everliving fuck google |
| 01:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | Not one of us opened this conversation with "Let's talk about JavaScript." |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | We are shamed. |
| 01:09 | <@Reiv> | talk to me then |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | You should watch that talk~ |
| 01:10 | <~Vornicus> | Basically have to |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | Let's assume I 'know' java and haskell and uh well I dunno so much about the dynamic typing bit but I get the general idea, anyway |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | ... yeah it's more like Perl |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | I am picking as my 'reference OO' and 'reference functional', here |
| 01:10 | <@Ogredude> | duck typing. quack. |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, and it's enough not reference OO that it's not helpful and possibly actively hindering |
| 01:11 | <@Reiv> | This is what I'm checking |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | There is a (very) slender volume named "JavaScript: The Good Parts" written by someone associated with its development |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | Unfortunately about half of it is raving madness caused by staying locked in a closet too long |
| 01:11 | <@Reiv> | O...K... |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | Like the bits were one of JavaScript's most awful parts is that you can't name variables "if" or "for" |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | or that "+" works for String concatenation |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | But he has a solid grasp of idioms that actually work well for structuring JS code |
| 01:12 | <~Vornicus> | to be fair, I have found myself preferring separate operators for that lately |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | ... am I actually comprehending what you wrote there right |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 01:13 | <@Reiv> | He considers the worst part of javascript the fact it has /keywords/? |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 01:13 | <@Reiv> | Does he need to go and snuggle with the Ruby guys for a bit |
| 01:13 | <~Vornicus> | this might be because it's only been relatively recently that I started using languages that do that that often |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | Because there's never an ambiguous parse where something might be a keyword *or* a variable |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | So therefore this is unforgivable |
| 01:13 | <~Vornicus> | (php and lua both use separate operators for concat and add) |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | Also we have never heard of independent lexer and parser phases because that is wrongbadthink from the Before Times or something. |
| 01:13 | <@Reiv> | ... run that bit by me again |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | Okay |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | The reason he hates keywords is that they are unnecessary, given the rest of the language |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | huh. Really? OK. |
| 01:14 | | * Reiv tilts his head. |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | That is, if you *did* name a variable "if" there is never a case where you'd see "if" in a statement and be unable to tell if it was the start of an if statement or a variable reference |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | I guess that's true for about half of Oracle's reserved keywords anyway |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | However, this requires a very specific and vastly overengineered parser implementation that nobody in their right mind would ever use |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | You sorta just get used to it, so |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | In short: He's got reasons for what he believes, but he has clearly been vacationing in alternate universes |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | Also: Yeah, easier script, and /also/ easier debugging, because you start to have Magic Words in your head |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | Also you get to have, like, A Tokenizer that isn't a full-blown parser |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | And those are frankly useful when staring at massive hunks of code~ |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | As for +... |
| 01:16 | <~Vornicus> | specifically, to tell the keyword if from a function if, you have to go all the way out to the end of the parentheses to see if there's a brace or not |
| 01:16 | <~Vornicus> | ...well -- a statement starter there, or not |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | well, yeah, the issue here is not that + works on strings, but that "rainbow" + 12 is "rainbow12" because the 12 becomes a string, but 12 + "rainbow" becomes 0 because "rainbow" becomes a number |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | He's also salty about JS numbers being IEEE 754-compliant floating point doubles, but, well, cry more, n00b |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | IEEE 754 numbers aren't integers, deal with it |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | "x == x" not necessarily being universally true isn't a bug it's actually mandated by the standard |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | Because, in fact, 0/0 != 0/0. |
| 01:19 | <@Reiv> | wait, no integers? |
| 01:19 | <@Reiv> | Why was that considered a good thing? |
| 01:20 | <~Vornicus> | to be fair |
| 01:20 | <~Vornicus> | integer division is Surprising |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | So, first: JS wasn't actually *designed* so that is the wrong question |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | But |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | When a scripting language only has one number type, that number type is double |
| 01:20 | <~Vornicus> | (that, or the scripting language is wrong. see schlockian) |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | Which is IEEE754 |
| 01:20 | <@Reiv> | Aha |
| 01:21 | <@Reiv> | "If you must have one, make it the one that isn't totally headachey" |
| 01:21 | <@Reiv> | I can dig that |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | Well, except it *is* because floating point is a nightmare |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | But the real solution is "have a minimum of four numeric types" |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | (word, floating-point, infinite-precision integer, and infinite-precision decimal) |
| 01:22 | <@Reiv> | Integer, Double, um... exponent? |
| 01:22 | <@Reiv> | no wait that's double anyway |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | Basically numbers are never *not* a nightmare in the general case |
| 01:23 | <~Vornicus> | and that's not even dates |
| 01:23 | <~Vornicus> | or strings |
| 01:23 | <~Vornicus> | or names |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | All of which are super-handy compared to email headers |
| 01:27 | <@Reiv> | What is 'word'? |
| 01:27 | <@Reiv> | For that matter, what is infinite-precision decimal |
| 01:27 | <@Reiv> | I am probably just forgetting words here, but while we're here... |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | word: an integer that fits in a machine register |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | so, 32- or 64-bit int |
| 01:28 | <@Reiv> | ah, as opposed to 'arbitarily large', yes? |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | infinite-precision decimal: an infinite-precision integer with an exponent, more or less |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | yes |
| 01:29 | <@Reiv> | And then infinite decimals are arbitarily large integers with a second arbitarily large number saying where to put the full stop? |
| 01:29 | <@himi> | Ain't nothin' wrong with dates that are floating point epoch-based . . . |
| 01:29 | | * Reiv has himi shot. |
| 01:29 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: Yep |
| 01:29 | | * himi ducks, quacks, and runs away |
| 01:29 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: Thank you, I knew what those were then |
| 01:30 | <@Reiv> | I had just forgotten I knew it~ |
| 01:31 | <@himi> | Javascript is surprisingly not insane, in practise |
| 01:31 | <&McMartin> | It is, however, *alien* |
| 01:31 | <@himi> | Being aware of the gotchas is important, but given that it's . . . weird, but not horrible |
| 01:31 | <@himi> | Alien is a good way to describe it |
| 01:33 | <@himi> | It /is/ probably the most widely available programming platform, though, and it /is/ capable of the kind of thing you want even if some of it might hurt |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | And a lot of the pain is stuff like "It turns out 2D graphics is harder than you thought it was in 1987" |
| 01:35 | <~Vornicus> | Fortunately |
| 01:36 | <~Vornicus> | you can actually do rather a lot with CSS. |
| 01:37 | <@himi> | That was one of the painful things I was thinking about, Vorn ;-P |
| 01:38 | | * Vornicus is guru level with CSS at this point |
| 01:38 | <@himi> | Nice to know - I might pick your brain next time I'm trying to futz with it |
| 01:38 | <~Vornicus> | It makes it so you can say "follow the rules for a thing of this type" and it just *will* |
| 01:39 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not much of a Perl person, but I think it also has separate add and concat. |
| 01:39 | | * celticminstrel pins a "CSS Guru" medal on Vorn. |
| 01:41 | <@Reiv> | Vornicus: I shall place a teeny tiny bit of homework to you, if you don't mind: Could you think about how to draw a game-usable hexagon in js/css/whatever? |
| 01:41 | | * Vornicus looks at reiv's request |
| 01:41 | | * Vornicus looks at the partially-complete css hexagon thing in his text editor |
| 01:41 | | * Vornicus looks at reiv's request |
| 01:42 | <@celticminstrel> | XD |
| 01:42 | | * Reiv bursts out laughing |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: my first instinct there is "you want a <canvas> element in combination with a library that lets you draw shapes on it like angularJS" |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | But there might be some kind of Stupid CSS Trickā¢ that makes it easier |
| 01:42 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: Vornicus and I have a Thing. |
| 01:42 | <@Reiv> | I hadn't realised the Thing had become quite so... automatic >_> |
| 01:42 | <@Reiv> | I mean, I didn't even use the magic words yet |
| 01:43 | <@Reiv> | Who knew it worked withotu the incantation~ |
| 01:50 | <~Vornicus> | would you like horizontal (pointy topped) or vertical (flat topped) |
| 01:51 | <@Reiv> | hm |
| 01:51 | <@Reiv> | Flat-topped, I think |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | I was thinking about this earlier and came to the conclusion that I would prefer pointy-topped. |
| 01:52 | <&Derakon> | Use Left/Right to go, well, left and right, then Up/Down to go upleft/downleft, and Shift+Up/Down to go upright/downright. |
| 01:52 | <&Derakon> | Obviously you can do similarly for the other orientation but for some reason it feels less natural to me, in my head. |
| 01:52 | <@Reiv> | That is a very odd way to do it |
| 01:53 | <@Reiv> | I'd have gone, hm |
| 01:53 | <@Reiv> | flat-topped, up/down normal, left/right goes up-angle, shift+left/right goes down-angle |
| 01:53 | <@Reiv> | Not relevant for my particular little nightmare of a project, but still |
| 02:02 | <~Vornicus> | http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/#coordinates pick odd-q or even-q |
| 02:03 | <~Vornicus> | (sadly I cannot give you cube or axial for the CSS) |
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| 02:31 | <@Reiv> | There's ways to write translators into/out of that though, right |
| 02:32 | <~Vornicus> | sure, not hard |
| 02:32 | <@Reiv> | odd-q it is then, but I had intended to run cube for that beautiful math~ |
| 02:32 | | * Vornicus is basically done with the CSS now, is drawing the silly background |
| 02:43 | <@Reiv> | ... silly background? |
| 02:53 | <~Vornicus> | silly as in "it is silly that I must make this |
| 02:53 | | * Vornicus finishes that, commits, uploads |
| 02:54 | <@Reiv> | What was silly about a background |
| 02:54 | <~Vornicus> | nothing really |
| 02:54 | <~Vornicus> | though making it have the right pixels filled was annoying |
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| 02:57 | <~Vornicus> | http://duznanski.github.io/hexagons.html |
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| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | things I haven't done: created classes for objects that fit at corners or on edges; created model-ish classes that would do things like set the background image to a particular thing, or aim orientable objects in particular directions |
| 03:16 | <~Vornicus> | oh, also you said odd q, one moment |
| 03:20 | <~Vornicus> | (it's a 2 letter change) |
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| 03:44 | < asdasdas> | mirc script, addons, bots etc etc http://thecavefiles.site88.net |
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| 03:49 | <~Vornicus> | sad. |
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| 04:15 | | * Vornicus waits for reiv to show up at home so he can click on the link and behold |
| 04:45 | | * celticminstrel wonders if it's normal for NaN to cast to INT_MIN. |
| 04:58 | <&McMartin> | I think it's allowed to cast to anything it wants |
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| 11:26 | | * Reiver arrives at incorrect timings, but remains duly impressed. |
| 11:28 | | * TheWatcher moves Reiver to a different time zone, wonders if that fizes his timings |
| 11:29 | | * Reiver 's clock starts blinking 12:00 |
| 11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | (idly: handling time stuff in Javascript? Awesome hilarious fun!) |
| 11:30 | | * abudhabi taps New Zealand, plays Door To Nothingness. |
| 11:31 | < abudhabi> | (Yeah, I know. If by 'fun' you mean 'Fun'.) |
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| 13:39 | | * TheWatcher hairpulls at the donkeyfucking excement-brained doucheyacht glaikit bauchles behind the plethora of fucking character encodings |
| 13:46 | <@froztbyte> | proudly worse in: most languages you use |
| 13:46 | <@froztbyte> | (for once I won't just on only perl, in which it is decidedly bad) |
| 13:46 | <@froztbyte> | (php and py2 are also pretty shitty) |
| 13:48 | <@TheWatcher> | You think they're bad? |
| 13:48 | <@TheWatcher> | One word for you: C. |
| 13:53 | | celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel |
| 14:02 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 14:02 | <@froztbyte> | oh I've seen that |
| 14:02 | <@froztbyte> | just..yeah |
| 14:57 | | Crossfire [Z@Nightstar-r9lk5l.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:29 | <@celticminstrel> | For some reason it seems like git grep doesn't default to regex. |
| 15:29 | <@celticminstrel> | For example, if I include an alternation, I get no matches. |
| 15:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Unless I add -E |
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| 15:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: there's a config option for that. |
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| 16:15 | <@celticminstrel> | ...of course there is. |
| 16:15 | | * celticminstrel already set the config option to always colourize or something. |
| 16:16 | <@celticminstrel> | But, for something other than -E to be the default is just strange. |
| 16:16 | <@celticminstrel> | ...I suppose I should set that config option though. |
| 16:16 | <@celticminstrel> | I usually want -E, though I also often use -F to avoid having to escape things. |
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| 18:47 | < abudhabi> | Is there an analogue to AHK on Linux? |
| 18:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which parts of AHK? It does like six things. |
| 18:49 | < abudhabi> | I want to fire a script that clicks incessantly at one spot of the screen. |
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| 18:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi: you want xdotool |
| 18:54 | <~Vornicus> | You're writing yes for dialog boxes aren't you |
| 18:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | Probably something like: xdotool mousemove $x $y; while true; do xdotool click 1; done |
| 18:55 | < [R]> | TheWatcher: I've yet to figgure out why JS doesn't let you do timezone math... though I did find a really sweet datetime lib a while back... |
| 18:55 | < [R]> | http://momentjs.com/ |
| 18:56 | <~Vornicus> | moment's the one we use at work |
| 19:00 | < abudhabi> | ToxicFrog: How does that interact with multiscreen? |
| 19:03 | < abudhabi> | Vornicus: My purposes are advanced by clicking a button on a website repeatedly. That same website is annoyingly ajaxed already, and my browser inspector chokes on it. That makes editing the JS and running $('#butan').click() tricky. |
| 19:04 | <~Vornicus> | you're making a cookie clicker clicker |
| 19:05 | < abudhabi> | Not quite. But I'm not quite sure I want to reveal my Dark Secrets. |
| 19:05 | < [R]> | abudhabi: xdotool sends the same messages that the keyboard/mouse events do. |
| 19:05 | < abudhabi> | Yeah, I just tried it. It works. |
| 19:06 | <&jerith> | I want one that will click on annoying flash games while still allowing me to use my mouse and keyboard elsewhere. |
| 19:06 | | * abudhabi has actually done the clicker game thing automagically with AHK. |
| 19:06 | < abudhabi> | I think it was Clicking Bad. |
| 19:06 | <&jerith> | (I use cliclick on OSX, which is pretty good except for the last thing.) |
| 19:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi: I know it supports multiscreen, don't remember the details. Check the man page. |
| 19:07 | < [R]> | jerith: run the flash game in Xephyr and xdotool the Xephyr server. |
| 19:07 | < abudhabi> | ToxicFrog: It works perfectly out of the box. |
| 19:07 | <&jerith> | What's xephyr? |
| 19:07 | < [R]> | Either that or the xvncserver |
| 19:07 | < abudhabi> | No strange calcs needed. |
| 19:07 | < [R]> | jerith: it's an X server that uses an X server as the display. |
| 19:08 | < [R]> | Alternatively, it's an X server in an X window. |
| 19:08 | < [R]> | It's part of xorg |
| 19:08 | <@Tamber> | Xnest |
| 19:08 | <@Tamber> | ? |
| 19:09 | < [R]> | There's that too |
| 19:09 | | * [R] isn't sure of the differences. |
| 19:09 | < [R]> | $ (man -k Xnest; man -k Xephyr) | uniq |
| 19:09 | < [R]> | Xnest [] (1) - a nested X server |
| 19:09 | < [R]> | Xephyr [] (1) - X server outputting to a window on a pre-existing X display |
| 19:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Xephyr is more modern and supports most X server extensions, DRI, etc |
| 19:10 | <@Tamber> | Ahh. |
| 19:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Xnest is a lot more barebones. |
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| --- Log closed Sat Mar 19 00:00:58 2016 |