| --- Log opened Tue Nov 11 00:00:25 2014 |
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| 02:33 | <&McMartin> | OK. |
| 02:33 | <&McMartin> | I'm running GNOME 3, and I'm trying to get it to notice that I have plugged an SD card into the machine's SD card reader. |
| 02:33 | <&McMartin> | GNOME no longer automounts it, presumably because Convenience. |
| 02:33 | <&McMartin> | /dev is pretty large. Where should I be looking? |
| 02:39 | <&McMartin> | Google implies I might need to install new kernel modules. OK. |
| 02:46 | <&McMartin> | Nope |
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| 03:06 | | * McMartin blinks |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | really |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | -_- |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | Apparently this SD card is *too modern* for my card reader, since it is >2GB. -_- |
| 03:07 | | * Derakon hands McM some clippers so he can cut the offending extra memory off. |
| 03:07 | <&Derakon> | Finding a <=2GB SD card might actually be somewhat tricky. |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | I have one plugged into the Wii, but I kind of don't want to sacrifice it. |
| 03:12 | <&Derakon> | Can't transfer the data on it onto the new card? |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | Can't mount the new card, which is what's sparking this whole thing, remember~ |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Oh wait, I thought it was too modern for the 2600 conversion cart, not for your computer reader. My bad. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | I guess if you knew someone with a reader that could read the new card, though, you could do the transfer with their help. |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, no, this is the one that came *with* the cart, plugged into, preloaded with the BIOS, etc. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Save you from junking the card or buying a new reader. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | ...oh. |
| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | ... |
| 03:14 | <&Derakon> | Maybe you should get a new reader~ |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | I would like to put *additional* programs on it. |
| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | the reader is a little, uh |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | I am now considering this thing, yes |
| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | bespoke |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: No, this is an Alcor 8-in-1 media card reader that has been attached to Iodine for like ten years. |
| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | oh |
| 03:15 | <&McMartin> | And apparently is incapable of dealing with high-capacity cartridges |
| 03:15 | <&McMartin> | Or at least, is incapable of doing so when plugged into a Linux machine. |
| 03:16 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, okay, those card readers run like tenbux |
| 03:16 | <~Vornicus> | ...fivebux, to get the model Vash & I have http://www.frys.com/product/7037271?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | Oh, I bet this is SDHC =P |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | OK then |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | I guess I'm going to Fry's tomorrow |
| 03:17 | <~Vornicus> | It's on the shelf in Palo Alto~ |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | That's where I'd go~ |
| 03:18 | <&McMartin> | ... plugging in the Wii SD card to the old reader results in getting picturs of Chao plushies |
| 03:18 | <&McMartin> | OK |
| 03:18 | <&Derakon> | This is acceptable. |
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| 14:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh, I need a base10->base16 calculator |
| 14:01 | <@Tarinaky> | That supports signed ints |
| 14:02 | | * Tarinaky swears profusely |
| 14:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Write a 6-liner in C? |
| 14:05 | <@froztbyte> | TheWatcher: ............................................... |
| 14:05 | <@TheWatcher> | What? :) |
| 14:06 | <@Tarinaky> | What I actually need, is to convert this HRESULT error code into something intelligible. |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | What you actually need is the Necronmicon, then. |
| 14:06 | <@Tarinaky> | *NecronomiCOM |
| 14:06 | <@Tarinaky> | *NecronomiCOM.NET |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | that, there |
| 14:12 | <@Tarinaky> | Literally WTF: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms679351%28v=vs.85%29.as px |
| 14:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Who the fuck designed this abomination of an API. WHY? |
| 14:13 | <@Tarinaky> | WHY does everything have at least 7 fucking arguments. |
| 14:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Who even,. |
| 14:13 | <@Tarinaky> | ffs |
| 14:15 | <@abudhabi> | Tarinaky: mIRC has one built-in. |
| 14:16 | <@abudhabi> | Also, I believe the Windows calculator also has this functionality. |
| 14:16 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: well, y'know, strerror() is just too complicated. |
| 14:16 | <@iospace> | The days of Apple's "We don't get viruses!" claims are over |
| 14:17 | | * iospace may or may not have a grin on her face because of that~ |
| 14:17 | <@abudhabi> | Tarinaky: http://www.binaryhexconverter.com/decimal-to-hex-converter ? |
| 14:20 | <@Tarinaky> | It doesn't matter, I was solving the wrong problem |
| 14:20 | | * TheWatcher arghs, hairpulls at this part of CODICIL WINTER HILL |
| 14:22 | <@Tarinaky> | What does this even mean |
| 14:22 | <@Tarinaky> | Am I reading English |
| 14:22 | <@Tarinaky> | "The message identifier for the requested message." |
| 14:23 | <@abudhabi> | Probably the messageId field for the row. |
| 14:25 | <@Tarinaky> | So I thought I sucked harder at C/C++ than I remembered. Turns out this API is just horrifying. |
| 14:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Yep |
| 14:26 | <@TheWatcher> | the Windows API is notoriously ghastly |
| 14:27 | <@Tarinaky> | And... nothing happened |
| 14:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh, wait. Forgot to recompile |
| 14:31 | <@Tarinaky> | And, of course, the method to obtain the error message segfaults. |
| 14:33 | <@Tarinaky> | "The location of the message definition. The type of this parameter depends upon the settings in the dwFlags parameter." |
| 14:37 | <&McMartin> | Also they use separate memory allocation functions |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | There are spells to cast to make this go away; you write them once in the distant past and then never look back =P |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | Also if this is an HRESULT this might not be the function you want? |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | (Also strerror and errno are terrible too you've just had those nerves deadened) |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | (YAY GLOBALS EVERYTHING SECRETLY WRITES) |
| 14:39 | <&McMartin> | (Problems with this are the fault of MULTITHREADING EXISTING, not with us) |
| 14:39 | < RchrdB> | strerror could be fine, under the assumption that its result is just a pointer into a big lazily-mmap'd block of strings. |
| 14:40 | <&McMartin> | Right, and you can also have errno be a macro that does OS-specific thread-local storage |
| 14:40 | < RchrdB> | oh hang on a second |
| 14:40 | < RchrdB> | I absolutely refuse to defend the heinous piece of shit that is errno. |
| 14:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Likewise |
| 14:40 | < RchrdB> | Thread-local storage mitigates the globalness but fuck me it's unclean. |
| 14:41 | <@TheWatcher> | but errno on its own - give it an error code, get back a pointer to a human readable string you can just use, without having to do Bizarre Shit? *shrug* |
| 14:41 | <@Tarinaky> | What the heck do I want for converting HRESULTs? |
| 14:41 | <@TheWatcher> | *but strerror |
| 14:41 | < RchrdB> | errno is a good example of libc just making shit worse for no reason; actual *syscalls* return error values directly in a register. |
| 14:42 | <&McMartin> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7008047/is-there-a-way-to-get-the-string-repr esentation-of-hresult-value-using-win-api |
| 14:43 | < RchrdB> | one of the lovely things libapr does is wrapping around all the idiot calling conventions (e.g. fork() is defined to return a pid_t that is SOMETIMES -1) that (POSIX requires that) libc wraps around perfectly nice syscalls that could have just been returning errno_t values directly, and unfucks them so that they return apr_status_t values and everything else through "out" parameters. |
| 14:43 | <&McMartin> | (google string: "hresult error message") |
| 14:43 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure I have _com_error |
| 14:44 | <&McMartin> | It's in comdef.h? It listed as having been around since at least '05 |
| 14:44 | <&McMartin> | COM is, in fact, though, totally full of spiders |
| 14:45 | <@Tarinaky> | No kidding. |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | "RPCs? Let's transparently inject DLLs into your process to service them." |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | "Maybe." |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | "It'll make marshalling stuff way easier!" |
| 14:45 | <@Tarinaky> | At least at the end of the sprint I can always palm this nonsense onto someone else. |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | "But probably only if the RPC format is basically a formal spec of the C++ ABI" |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | "So let's do that!" |
| 14:46 | <&McMartin> | COM is an awesome thing for *somebody else* to have written because you get spooky libraries that can be summoned up out of nowhere in like two lines of C# or windows scripts |
| 14:46 | <&McMartin> | But it's a terrible thing for *you* to *write*. =P |
| 14:49 | <@Tarinaky> | And this doesn't play nice with the requirement to use gotos because of code style. |
| 14:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Of course. |
| 14:51 | <@Tarinaky> | Braces everywhere. |
| 14:52 | <@Tarinaky> | McMartin: This still isn't working... '008E1088' is not human readable |
| 14:53 | <@abudhabi> | Oobelobb! |
| 14:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Eater of Pointers! |
| 14:55 | <@iospace> | OM NOM NOM |
| 14:55 | <@iospace> | but you still have to free() Oobelobb |
| 14:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | This reminds me to catch up on the Windows Internals threads in SA. |
| 14:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is beautiful in its horror. |
| 14:56 | <@iospace> | Windows internals? |
| 14:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: hackbunny -- who was for ten years a ReactOS developer and has done a shitload of windows API programming and reverse engineering -- answering people's questions about "why is [windows API, service, and/or design element X] haunted by the unquiet dead" |
| 14:58 | <@TheWatcher> | iospace: free() Oobelobb, and release it from its 10 million cycle slumber beneath the static data? |
| 14:58 | <@TheWatcher> | Why would you do suck a thing?! |
| 14:58 | <@iospace> | TheWatcher: Because |
| 14:58 | <@iospace> | reasons :) |
| 14:59 | | * iospace gives TheWatcher an infinite loop inside an infinite loop inside an infinite loop |
| 15:00 | | * TheWatcher is even more loopy than normal now |
| 15:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also includes the immortal exchange "ok seriously is there anything interesting to say about the registry" "it's made of bees" |
| 15:01 | <@iospace> | hahahah |
| 15:01 | <@iospace> | BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES |
| 15:02 | <@TheWatcher> | TF: Link? |
| 15:03 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm pretty sure this thing is writing the memory address of the string instead of writing the string. |
| 15:03 | <@Tarinaky> | Which I am finding incredibly WTFy |
| 15:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3679326&userid=120693 |
| 15:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | That only shows the OP's posts, but it's in YOSPOS, so it honestly reads a lot better that way |
| 15:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh. |
| 15:05 | <@Tarinaky> | How do I get the text out of this smegging TCHAR*? |
| 15:08 | <@iospace> | ToxicFrog: YOSPOS? |
| 15:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: the mostly-unmoderated counterpart to SHSC and COC, "Your OS is a POS" |
| 15:10 | <@iospace> | you have to realize a lot of people here don't know SA acronyms >_> |
| 15:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | SHSC and COC are Serious Hardware/Software Crap and Cavern of COBOL, the non-coding and coding tech forums respectively. YOSPOS is the unmoderated appendage to them where the people who can't figure out how to use the shift key are safely quarantined. |
| 15:11 | <@iospace> | heh |
| 15:12 | <&McMartin> | Tarinaky: TCHAR* is UTF-16 assuming you have set your compilation mode correcty. Read it directly as UTF-16 or use WideCharToMultiByte to make it something else |
| 15:13 | <&McMartin> | And by something else I mean UTF-8 because fuck all other multibyte encodings |
| 15:13 | <&McMartin> | If you're feeding it to like MessageBox or something that *wants* UTF-16 so just feed it that. |
| 15:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | hackbunny is actually a regular in the COC "Coding Horrors" thread, and a few people said they'd read a thread that was just him telling win32api campfire tales, so he created it, but he created it in YOSPOS for some reason. |
| 15:16 | <&McMartin> | "what is uniquely awful is ANSI/Unicode macros" |
| 15:16 | <&McMartin> | I've used wxWindows. I can't agree with this statement. |
| 15:18 | | * iospace gives ToxicFrog dirent.h |
| 15:18 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm trying to feed it to stderr |
| 15:18 | <@Tarinaky> | You know, so I can read the error message. |
| 15:18 | <@Tarinaky> | :/ |
| 15:19 | <@Tarinaky> | I found _tprintf, which seems to be working now. |
| 15:19 | <@Tarinaky> | Although I think I'm using it wrong. |
| 15:19 | <@Tarinaky> | Unknown error 0x88890001 |
| 15:20 | <&McMartin> | So, HRESULTs don't have to have string versions either, because they're just result codes. |
| 15:20 | <@Tarinaky> | Not particularly helpful. |
| 15:21 | | * iospace sobs quietly at this code |
| 15:21 | <&McMartin> | That the top bit is set means it's an error but AFAIK that's the only requirement |
| 15:21 | <&McMartin> | If this is someone else's service you're using they didn't have to register anything at all for that. |
| 15:21 | <@Tarinaky> | McMartin: You make it sound like this a reasonable thing to do. |
| 15:21 | <@Tarinaky> | No. This is Windows. |
| 15:21 | <&McMartin> | Uh |
| 15:21 | <&McMartin> | "Windows" is a lot of things |
| 15:21 | <&McMartin> | It's already not "Windows" as I know it because we're in the equivalent of GObject/DBus. |
| 15:22 | <&McMartin> | 88890001 is probably the actual HRESULT number |
| 15:22 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean I'm not trying to access third party COM crap |
| 15:23 | <&McMartin> | Googling that number gives me AUDCLNT_E_NOT_INITIALIZED |
| 15:23 | <@Tarinaky> | Why couldn't Windows have said that >.> |
| 15:24 | | * Tarinaky is not happy with this. |
| 15:24 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, it's not great. |
| 15:25 | <&McMartin> | It's the C school of stuff, but there's 15 trillion subsystems and each has their own equivalent of errno.h |
| 15:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: And thus Ballmer's shrivelled, black heart is further nourished. |
| 15:27 | <@iospace> | DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVEL- *gapped* |
| 15:28 | <&McMartin> | AFAIK the only reliable way to dodge that fate is "keep the same lead designer for at least 15 years" |
| 15:42 | <@iospace> | ... |
| 15:42 | <@iospace> | so, one thing I learned back in the day |
| 15:42 | <@iospace> | wrap "free(var)" with "if (var != NULL)" |
| 15:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh my god. |
| 15:43 | <@iospace> | this code? Doesn't do that |
| 15:43 | <@Tarinaky> | My code still doesn't work, but now it's crashing at a completely different part of the test. |
| 15:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Yay |
| 15:43 | < RchrdB> | iospace: but POSIX and IIRC the C spec says free(NULL) is defined as a no-op. |
| 15:43 | <@iospace> | RchrdB: this was also BIOS code |
| 15:43 | <@iospace> | :P |
| 15:44 | < RchrdB> | whoever wrote your malloc() and free() should be shot. |
| 15:44 | | * iospace directs RchrdB towards Intel |
| 15:45 | < RchrdB> | Being Intel doesn't give them the right to not be shot out of a cannon. |
| 15:46 | < RchrdB> | Yep, it's in the C spec. :P |
| 15:47 | | * iospace shrugs |
| 15:47 | <@iospace> | well, that's what i was told to do back at the old place |
| 15:48 | < RchrdB> | I feel actually severely offended by this. |
| 15:49 | < RchrdB> | Bad Intel, no cookie. |
| 15:50 | <@iospace> | ... |
| 15:50 | | * iospace shrugs |
| 15:50 | < RchrdB> | Irrationally so. |
| 15:51 | < RchrdB> | DAMMIT INTEL, NO COOKIE. |
| 15:51 | <@iospace> | yes, that's a rather irrational reason to be upset |
| 15:52 | <@iospace> | surrounding "free(var)" with "if (var != NULL)" isn't going to change the end execution |
| 15:53 | < RchrdB> | Writing that by hand everywhere is awful. |
| 15:53 | < RchrdB> | Doing it with a macro would be fine. |
| 15:53 | < RchrdB> | Doing it at all on a platform that's supposed to conform to the C spec is evil. |
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| 15:55 | <@iospace> | RchrdB: UEFI does not use standard spec C |
| 15:57 | <@Tarinaky> | RchrdB: Why is that evil? |
| 15:57 | < RchrdB> | iospace: fair enough. |
| 16:01 | | * Tarinaky suddenly remembers an 'evil' macro that involves replcing true with something wrapped around rand() which returns true 90% of the time. |
| 16:04 | <@iospace> | what |
| 16:04 | <@iospace> | no really, wat |
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| 16:05 | <@iospace> | one of my favorite macros back in the day, but it was a dangerous macro because it could easily segfault if used wrong, was a macro to grab an entire structure based on one member of it |
| 16:06 | <@Tarinaky> | iospace: The what is that it introduces a subtle bug which will annoy the victim. |
| 16:06 | <@iospace> | Tarinaky: Ok, let me rephrase |
| 16:06 | <@iospace> | WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT |
| 16:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Because you're evil. |
| 16:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Hence the name: 'evil' macro. |
| 16:06 | <@iospace> | true |
| 16:08 | <@Tarinaky> | If you're really evil, you can try implementing overloaded arithmetic operators on a class in C++ |
| 16:09 | <@Tarinaky> | but leave one of them out. |
| 16:10 | <@iospace> | oh? |
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| 16:11 | <@Tarinaky> | The problem with overloading arithmetic operators for things like... say... custom vector objects... Is that overloading one operator 'implies' the existence of 3 or 4 others, |
| 16:11 | <@Tarinaky> | And people will expect them to be there when you come to use the code. |
| 16:11 | <@Tarinaky> | i.e. operator+ implies the existence of operator- |
| 16:11 | <@Tarinaky> | And operator+= and operator-= |
| 16:12 | <@Tarinaky> | And, of course, these will be defined 3 times for different type signatures... |
| 16:13 | <@Tarinaky> | i.e. addition of two vectors, addition of a vector and an integer, addition of a vector and a float... |
| 16:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Addition of two vectors implies scalar multiplication. |
| 16:14 | <@Tarinaky> | So operator+ can also imply operator* |
| 16:14 | <@Tarinaky> | And scalar multiplication implies scalar division |
| 16:14 | <@Tarinaky> | It very quickly gets out of hand |
| 16:14 | <@Tarinaky> | When all you wanted, really, was Add(...) |
| 16:22 | < RchrdB> | Tarinaky: will any of the ones that you miss out the definition for get incorrect definitions generated automatically? |
| 16:37 | <@abudhabi> | Why the hell is Excel treating my formulas in the cells as text? |
| 16:40 | <@abudhabi> | Nevermind. It's because the cells had somehow become Text, and are stubbornly refusing to not be it. |
| 16:55 | <@Tarinaky> | RchrdB: I think Operator= and the Copy COnstructor are the only two that get incorrect definitions automatically. |
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| 18:38 | | * iospace feeds Julius to Ben Stein |
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| 19:25 | <@iospace> | RchrdB: you know what you reminded me of earlier? People who hate gotos for the simple fact that they're a goto |
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| 19:46 | | * iospace sighs at this code though |
| 19:47 | <@iospace> | certain people may disagree, but if you're using dynamically allocated variables, I think it should be one in one out |
| 19:47 | <@iospace> | just to make sure all those variables get wiped |
| 20:02 | < Lamabo> | uisng(var someVar = new SomeDisposableClass()) { /*do work */ } |
| 20:02 | < Lamabo> | :D |
| 20:18 | < RchrdB> | iospace: yeah, fair response. :p |
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| 20:41 | | ServerMode/#code [+aooaooo McMartin McMartin PinkFreud Reiver Reiver 693AAAG37 celticminstrel] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 20:41 | | 693AAAG37 [lenin@Nightstar-utbkuh.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
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| 22:11 | | macdjord|slep is now known as macdjord |
| 22:11 | <@Tarinaky> | Things I kinda wish Python had: import macros. |
| 22:27 | <@froztbyte> | https://technet.microsoft.com/library/security/ms14-066 |
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| 23:14 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
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| --- Log closed Wed Nov 12 00:00:41 2014 |