| --- Log opened Mon Nov 10 00:00:09 2014 |
| 00:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: I'm already requiring ttyrec to be installed, they can damn well install less too. |
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| 02:24 | <&McMartin> | OK |
| 02:24 | <&McMartin> | It looks like the final piece of my Atari 2600 real-hardware devkit will be arriving this week |
| 02:24 | <&McMartin> | I'd better get cracking if I want to run any real programs on it when it arrives |
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| 04:34 | | * McMartin deploys cycle counting |
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| 06:06 | <&McMartin> | Man |
| 06:06 | <&McMartin> | OK, I think I only had one or two cycles to spare |
| 06:14 | < Harlow> | Ok can anyone provide a practical solution to this problem? I have a list (in a file) of cities with distances to other cities, i cannot use classes. i need to find the best cities i.e. best average distance, what kind of data structure would you use? |
| 06:16 | <&jeroud> | Dict/map? |
| 06:23 | < Harlow> | I would use that but i also can't use Dict or maps. |
| 06:23 | < Harlow> | Its going to probably come down to me using some f'ed up array. |
| 06:24 | <&jeroud> | What data structures are available to you, then? |
| 06:24 | < Harlow> | linked lists are fair game |
| 06:24 | < Harlow> | stacks |
| 06:24 | < Harlow> | trees |
| 06:24 | <&jeroud> | That seems like a strange set of restrictions. |
| 06:25 | < Harlow> | i mean this is a graph of sorts so it relies on those. |
| 06:25 | < Harlow> | very |
| 06:25 | < Xon> | graph + some standard search? |
| 06:25 | <&jeroud> | Is this a homework question? |
| 06:26 | <&jeroud> | If so, what's the context? |
| 06:26 | < Xon> | jeroud, yeah it sounds like a homework-like question tbh |
| 06:27 | <&jeroud> | I don't have any objections to helping with homework. |
| 06:27 | < Harlow> | Im not in this class but I'm trying to figure it out. Im going to try and test out of it and I'm hitting a wall on this one. |
| 06:27 | <&jeroud> | And Harlow knows we're not going to just present a solution. |
| 06:27 | < Harlow> | i mean i just want to know what direction i should take this. |
| 06:28 | <&jeroud> | Harlow: That's where the context would help. |
| 06:28 | <&jeroud> | In isolation, it's a stupid restriction. |
| 06:29 | < Xon> | not using classes is a really really stupid restriction |
| 06:29 | < Harlow> | Well i started doing it with classes and then i was told no classes are used in that class. |
| 06:29 | <&jeroud> | So it's almost certainly trying to drive you to a particular shape of solution. |
| 06:30 | < Harlow> | I thought it was a stupid restriction too. |
| 06:30 | <&jeroud> | What language is this? |
| 06:30 | < Harlow> | C++ |
| 06:30 | < Xon> | O_o |
| 06:30 | <&jeroud> | Hrm. |
| 06:30 | < Harlow> | would you like to gander at the doc? |
| 06:31 | < Xon> | ultimately, you will need to bundle a bunch of information together for each node, and describe the link. besides absuing multi-dimensional arrays; you kinda need to use classes/structs (same damn thing in this context) |
| 06:32 | < Xon> | abusing* |
| 06:32 | < Harlow> | https://sites.google.com/site/uiccs251/programming-assignments/prog-4-distributi on-centers |
| 06:35 | < Harlow> | i get that i can find the most efficent path from once city to any given other |
| 06:36 | < Harlow> | and find the average dist, for one city. |
| 06:36 | < Harlow> | but multiple is more difficult. |
| 06:37 | < Harlow> | i mean i could write it were it exempts any hops from the test city. (would need to test n cities) |
| 06:37 | < Harlow> | The solution could get very out of control. |
| 06:45 | < Xon> | Harlow, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Search_algorithms <- pick one. Dept or breath first search is made for this, and easy to understand |
| 06:45 | < Xon> | the variation sof A* and such have a fair bit more to them |
| 06:46 | < Harlow> | that parts fine |
| 06:46 | < Harlow> | I'm trying to figure out if i have more than 3 cities how bad this will be its going to be a hell of arrays |
| 06:48 | <@froztbyte> | 2 stages |
| 06:48 | <@froztbyte> | one array which references to all the others |
| 06:48 | <@froztbyte> | and all the others just filled with the relevant calculations? |
| 06:48 | <&jeroud> | Harlow: Assign each city a numeric identifier and then use that as a key into the array or something? |
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| 07:57 | <@Thalass> | Today I learned that a phone's SIM card isn't just a bit of ROM with username/password stuff for the network. It has a CPU, RAM, and can run programs. Not huge ones, of course, but it also has direct access to the radios so a keylogger or something else that sends the data to a server isn't out of the question. |
| 08:01 | <@abudhabi> | Even on dumbphones? |
| 08:25 | <@froztbyte> | Thalass: and it runs Java |
| 08:25 | <@froztbyte> | abudhabi: yes |
| 08:26 | <@froztbyte> | that's how those "SIM apps" used to work |
| 08:41 | <@abudhabi> | But if it's a dumbphone, it doesn't even have a proper way to access the internet, right? |
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| 08:49 | <@froztbyte> | that's completely irrelevant |
| 08:49 | <@froztbyte> | you get things like USSD banking interfaces |
| 08:55 | <@Thalass> | It was quite the eye opener. I stumbled across a pdf of a powerpoint presentation from defcon 2012? Talking about Toorcamp setting up their own mini GSM network in order to hack it. |
| 09:02 | <@abudhabi> | Should I be worried about my phone? |
| 09:10 | <@Thalass> | I don't think so. It's fairly well locked down, I think. And you have to have physical access to flash new software (I think?). |
| 09:10 | <@Thalass> | But I did think of the scenario where you drop your phone off to have the screen replaced or something, and the guy does something nefarious with the sim car while he's at it. But it's unlikely. |
| 09:13 | <@abudhabi> | If my phone is damaged, I'll replace it. It'll be cheaper than to have it fixed. |
| 09:14 | <@Thalass> | The repairs i've had to do have been simple enough to do myself. :P |
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| 10:11 | <@froztbyte> | thalass: it's easier and easier |
| 10:11 | <@froztbyte> | you can bootstrap a small cellphone cell for about $1200 now |
| 10:11 | <@froztbyte> | or, around that, last I looked |
| 10:11 | <@froztbyte> | http://openbts.org/ |
| 10:12 | <@froztbyte> | that's one of the longest-running projects |
| 10:12 | <@froztbyte> | http://www.yatebts.com/ is another I've seen |
| 10:14 | <@thalass> | woot |
| 10:17 | <@thalass> | I wonder if you can use one of these to improve reception in a shitty area. Mobile reception near our house is horrible. Which makes it difficult for me to open my garage door. |
| 10:17 | <@thalass> | I have seen commercially available boosters, but the networks don't like even like them. A FOSS station would probably make them have a heart attack |
| 10:20 | <@froztbyte> | ask your provider for a femtocell |
| 10:43 | <@thalass> | I think they're frowned upon over here. Last time I looked into it, at least. My brother is trying to set up a software SIP server on his computer, so that his phone disconnects from the GSM network and goes through the wifi when he's at home. The iphone app apparently doesn't exist anymore though haha. |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | The best kind of feature request: where you find you've already implemented the code, it just isn't enabled. |
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| 11:20 | | * thalass ponders SIP Witch. |
| 11:32 | <@froztbyte> | thalass: that kind of feature is actually standardized somewhere |
| 11:33 | <@froztbyte> | to allow you to "roam" your number to any kind of trusted/registered network |
| 11:33 | <@froztbyte> | so that if you go from GSM to wifi, it can transport over the wifi just the same |
| 11:33 | <@froztbyte> | (and for all things, USSD etc included) |
| 11:33 | <@froztbyte> | naturally, no-one uses this |
| 11:34 | <@thalass> | Using the same phone number? |
| 11:35 | <@thalass> | That'd be neat. Of course we're moving in a few months so we won't be in this blackspot forever |
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| 12:05 | <@froztbyte> | yes, it would literally just be a different network transport |
| 12:06 | <@froztbyte> | but everything is terrible so you don't get to use that |
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| 13:42 | <@Tarinaky> | abudhabi: On Polish food found at English supermarkets that I quite like: pickled herring. |
| 13:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Delicious, but oily fish is very noxious. |
| 13:45 | | * McMartin plays with Stella's debugger |
| 13:45 | <&McMartin> | This is nuts, but I guess it has to be |
| 13:45 | <&McMartin> | The debug screen shows where the virtual CRT's electron gun is pointing |
| 13:45 | <&McMartin> | I can watch it scan as I step through the code |
| 13:48 | <@abudhabi> | Tarinaky: Yes, it's good. Like the scandinavian things, but less rotten. :V |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | Partner thought I wouldn't like it. |
| 13:56 | < Syka> | McMartin: whoa |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Gods damn, how I hate email |
| 14:26 | <@macdjord> | TheWatcher: Really? Go without for a week~ |
| 14:27 | < Lamabo> | whooops |
| 14:27 | < Lamabo> | forgot what delimiter I used for part of code |
| 14:27 | < Lamabo> | reduced the API to a 500 error |
| 14:28 | < Lamabo> | 503 now |
| 14:28 | < Lamabo> | making progress! |
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| 14:33 | <&McMartin> | Syka: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/atari/stella_debugger.png |
| 14:33 | | * iospace had lukewarm coffee today |
| 14:33 | | * iospace is sad |
| 14:35 | <@abudhabi> | >drinking coffee |
| 14:35 | <@abudhabi> | >2014 |
| 14:35 | <@abudhabi> | >shiggydiggy |
| 14:35 | <&McMartin> | That's not a verb I recognise. |
| 14:36 | <@abudhabi> | Multiple layers of corruption on "I sure hope you guys don't do this". |
| 14:36 | <@TheWatcher> | macdjord: that'd probably reduce me to a jibbering wreck |
| 14:36 | <@TheWatcher> | But in this case, it's more the programmatical generation of MIME emails. |
| 14:36 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: that's kinda awesome |
| 14:36 | <@iospace> | abudhabi: I'm afraid I don't get your joked here |
| 14:37 | <@iospace> | *joke |
| 14:37 | <@abudhabi> | Probably because it's lame. |
| 14:37 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: Also note the crazy level of color control the 2600 had |
| 14:37 | <&McMartin> | Fuck palettes, just set chrominance and luminance directly, one nybble each |
| 14:37 | <@abudhabi> | McMartin: That debugger looks neat. |
| 14:38 | <@froztbyte> | heh |
| 14:38 | <@froztbyte> | I've actually often wondered how that was the case |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | Because that is how we roll in 1977 |
| 14:38 | <@iospace> | abudhabi: and lots of people drink coffee in 2014... so it sort of falls flat? |
| 14:38 | <@froztbyte> | now I know :) |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | (actually there's only 8 luminance values, and 15 chrominance ones) |
| 14:38 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: So, this probably is different elsewhere |
| 14:39 | <&McMartin> | But for NTSC, during HBLANK you send a reference signal called a "color burst" |
| 14:39 | <&McMartin> | And then the main signal is the luminance, but the *phase* of that signal, with respect to the color burst, indicates what color it is |
| 14:39 | <@abudhabi> | iospace: I am suggesting that drinking coffee is outdated. Contrasted with the knowledge that it isn't makes it the joke. |
| 14:39 | <@iospace> | I see |
| 14:39 | <&McMartin> | So the 2600's CPU sends out Chrominance and Luminance info for its sprites/background/playfield, and then the Television Interface Adaptor handles sending the color burst and assembling them into luminance and chrominance signals. |
| 14:40 | <@iospace> | it was a bad joke that fell flat >_> |
| 14:40 | <&McMartin> | This is not the most robust way of encoding color data in a composite signal, which is probably a large part of why the rest of the world expands "NTSC" as "Never Twice the Same Color" |
| 14:40 | <@abudhabi> | iospace: The chan is weak in you! |
| 14:41 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: hrm. what's the reason for that? easier to first fill the tube with a given colour signal, then detract from that for a given delta? |
| 14:41 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: I think it's so that the absence of a chrominance signal means that your analog signal looks identical to the pre-existing black-and-white television displays |
| 14:41 | <@froztbyte> | I've never actually looked at the internals of PAL/NTSC/SECAM/friends |
| 14:42 | <&McMartin> | And indeed, if you want a shade of grey on the 2600, you set your chrominance nybble to 0, which means "turn off chrominance entirely" |
| 14:42 | <@iospace> | abudhabi: 4chan can go fuck a suck |
| 14:42 | <@iospace> | and hang out with reddit :) |
| 14:42 | <&McMartin> | And then 1 is "in sync with color burst" and the rest go around the color wheel |
| 14:42 | <&McMartin> | (It looks from my experiments that 4 is red, 8 blue, and C green) |
| 14:42 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: that's mildly odd |
| 14:42 | <@abudhabi> | iospace: I quite agree, though perhaps for different raisins. |
| 14:42 | <@froztbyte> | but, then, a lot of things were (and still are) |
| 14:42 | <&McMartin> | In sync with it is the weird color the tech manuals from '77 called "gold" |
| 14:43 | <@froztbyte> | that's the offish yellow, right? |
| 14:43 | <&McMartin> | And this was 50s tech being implemented in ASICs in the 70s, so yeah >_> |
| 14:43 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 14:43 | <@froztbyte> | I have actually seen this before. |
| 14:43 | <@froztbyte> | sigh, now I want a bunch of signalling things or something |
| 14:44 | <&McMartin> | The other nice thing about the debugger is you can repeatedly hit that Frame +1 thing and make sure that you're actually sending the proper number of scan lines each frame |
| 14:44 | <&McMartin> | Because that is fucking on *you* with this sytem - that's what those VSync and VBlank checkboxes are for. |
| 14:44 | <@froztbyte> | bet I'd get about an hour into it before my math muscle hurts from how long ago I stretched it, though :/ |
| 14:44 | <&McMartin> | *system |
| 14:44 | <@froztbyte> | hahaha |
| 14:44 | <@froztbyte> | man, I forgot about those problem |
| 14:44 | <@froztbyte> | problems* |
| 14:45 | <@froztbyte> | briefly knew about (and had encountered) things which featured their use in a "this is the problem" kind of setting |
| 14:45 | <@froztbyte> | but ages ago |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | Oh yes |
| 14:45 | <&McMartin> | The old X11 stuff would let you set timings for HBLANK and VBLANK that would literally set monitors of the time on fire. |
| 14:46 | <@froztbyte> | I've managed to hang a screen's ... something? interface? once |
| 14:46 | <@froztbyte> | by doing that |
| 14:46 | <&McMartin> | The TIA handles HBLANK for you - and has a register you can strobe which means "halt CPU until next HBLANK", even - but it's up to you to make sure you get the 3 lines of VSYNC, 37 of VBLANK, and then the remaining 222. |
| 14:46 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, by the late 1990s monitors had safety electronics in them |
| 14:47 | <&McMartin> | And of course here in the 21st century our monitors are simulating the damn cathode rays so they can just display an image that says "this signal sucks Beavis" in the language of the user's choice instead. |
| 14:48 | <@froztbyte> | you've read the dreamwidth post about monitors? |
| 14:48 | <@froztbyte> | http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/8705.html |
| 14:48 | <&McMartin> | The 2600 tech guidelines actually suggested you only use 192 scanlines for the image and then give VBLANK an extra 30 lines pre-VSYNC but by direct observation none of its successors bothered with that |
| 14:48 | <&McMartin> | Which, uh, includes every console up to the PS2, inclusive |
| 14:49 | <&McMartin> | I had not |
| 14:49 | <@froztbyte> | enjoy :) |
| 14:49 | <@froztbyte> | (your reference of respecting the past reminded me of this) |
| 14:50 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 14:50 | <&McMartin> | We actually went *from* the stuff the 70s and 80s stuff used *back* to what the 50s stuff used |
| 14:50 | <@froztbyte> | yeah |
| 14:50 | <@froztbyte> | welllll |
| 14:50 | <&McMartin> | Composite predates the RF input, and you can mod the 2600 at least to do PS2-style composte video output by wiring in a jumper |
| 14:50 | <@froztbyte> | overall, I think we can probably get out of that terrible habit |
| 14:50 | <@froztbyte> | and might even |
| 14:50 | <&McMartin> | That skips the RF modulator~ |
| 14:51 | <@froztbyte> | some things (like the e-ink screens, and I *suspect* probably some tablet/phone screens too) are somewhat easily proving that it's possible to have things not *entirely* retarded |
| 14:51 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 14:51 | <&McMartin> | I mean |
| 14:51 | <&McMartin> | The TIA is a special case |
| 14:52 | <&McMartin> | It exists for the *express purpose* of being hooked up to your color television set that of course you have and producing signals indistinguishable from that pulled from a set of rabbit-ear antennas |
| 14:52 | <@froztbyte> | hahaha, yup |
| 14:52 | <&McMartin> | (My personal 2600 is from the second half of the 1980s and it instead has plugs that make it impersonate a cable box, but it's the same kind of signal, so...) |
| 14:52 | <@froztbyte> | this also led to an interesting extra market |
| 14:52 | <@froztbyte> | for the signal convertors |
| 14:52 | <&McMartin> | But, like, when the entire selling point is "Hey! This device you already own now has a new purpose!" |
| 14:53 | <&McMartin> | You'd better be damn compatible with that device they already own |
| 14:53 | <@froztbyte> | I had a 2600 acquired via-via, but unfortunately I never got to really make use of it (for various reasons) :/ |
| 14:53 | <&McMartin> | Mobile computing has a huge advantage there, in that the whole device is right there |
| 14:53 | <@froztbyte> | 2600 with external tape bay, iirc |
| 14:53 | <&McMartin> | Oh, the SuperCharger |
| 14:53 | <&McMartin> | Those things were wacky |
| 14:53 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: weelllllllll |
| 14:53 | <&McMartin> | I'm getting an SD card adaptor for it sometime this week, hopefully :D |
| 14:53 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: you've seen some of these mobile devices have *RCA output* (by way of cable extension), right? |
| 14:53 | <&McMartin> | (Which is why I'm busting out the Stella debugger; I want to feed it my code) |
| 14:54 | <&McMartin> | I haven't, actually |
| 14:54 | <&McMartin> | Everything seems to be miniUSB |
| 14:54 | <@froztbyte> | I don't even want to know what kind of terrifying design decision that was |
| 14:54 | <@froztbyte> | yeah, it's not super popular, but there are a couple |
| 14:54 | <&McMartin> | Overscan |
| 14:54 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I have to throw 30 lines of overscan |
| 14:55 | <&McMartin> | The C64 though was totally not doing that thing |
| 14:57 | <@froztbyte> | the more I learn about all of this, the more I appreciate both the engineering/development feats /at the time/ (for any given game), as well as the ways some people bend this tech to this day still |
| 14:57 | <@froztbyte> | like 8088 Corruption/Domination |
| 14:57 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, this is basically me learning to write code haiku~ |
| 14:58 | <&McMartin> | Also now that I have this debugger I can pick apart some of the mid-early games like Asteroids, because I can't figure out how they did what they did |
| 14:59 | <@froztbyte> | like such as? |
| 14:59 | <&McMartin> | So, the Atari only has two sprites, and they're 8 bits wide and expandable and vaguely replicatable |
| 14:59 | <&McMartin> | And one scanline tall |
| 14:59 | <&McMartin> | And then there are three other sprites which are exactly one pixel |
| 15:00 | <&McMartin> | Now, because you are manually chucking every single scanline, this really means your sprites are *infinitely tall* because when you're changing the graphics every line there's no theoretical limit to how many times you do it |
| 15:00 | <&McMartin> | However, Asteroids seems to regularly rock, like, six on a single scanline, so it must be cheating somehow and I don't have any good guesses for how it is. |
| 15:01 | <&McMartin> | My initial guess would be "maybe it's replicating them and changing the graphics/magnification mid-scanline?" |
| 15:01 | <&McMartin> | But then there aren't any sprites left to draw *the player's ship* and that can free-fly. |
| 15:01 | <&McMartin> | So maybe the player is a cunningly warped version of a missile or ball. |
| 15:01 | <@froztbyte> | mm |
| 15:02 | <&McMartin> | It's not one of the ones that has a fully annotated disassembly or published source, either. |
| 15:02 | <&McMartin> | But |
| 15:02 | <&McMartin> | That's a pretty damn good debugger |
| 15:02 | <&McMartin> | I bet I can get some insights from it |
| 15:02 | <&McMartin> | But soon it is worktimes, so not yet. |
| 15:02 | <@froztbyte> | what are you on, UTC-11? |
| 15:02 | <@froztbyte> | wait, no, that'd be 6am |
| 15:03 | <&McMartin> | GMT-8, IIRC. It's 7 AM. |
| 15:03 | <&McMartin> | I've been on a pretty random schedule lately. |
| 15:03 | <@froztbyte> | is there daylight silly time in effect? |
| 15:03 | <@froztbyte> | wait, no |
| 15:03 | <@froztbyte> | ignore me |
| 15:03 | <@froztbyte> | my brain is monday'd out |
| 15:04 | <&McMartin> | It just ended |
| 15:04 | <@froztbyte> | yeah |
| 15:04 | <@froztbyte> | and UTC-11 would've been more like 4am |
| 15:10 | < RchrdB> | argh |
| 15:10 | < RchrdB> | someone at RackSpace is doing debugging in production or something :( |
| 15:11 | | * RchrdB just went to check "is machine $x being backed up correctly?" and gets a Firefox console full of javascript errors instead of a list of information about backups. :( |
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| 15:54 | | * Tarinaky hates on the bizarre desire to 'line things up' for code style. |
| 15:58 | <@froztbyte> | ? |
| 15:59 | <@abudhabi> | You mean proper indentation? |
| 16:00 | <@Tarinaky> | No. |
| 16:00 | <@Tarinaky> | i.e. if I have to split a function call on multiple lines. |
| 16:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Then 'lining things up' is that each parameter name begins at the same character position |
| 16:01 | <@abudhabi> | That seems a reasonable things to do. |
| 16:02 | <@froztbyte> | indeed |
| 16:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Proper indentation is just that each parameter name begins one indent level deeper than the line the function call starts on. |
| 16:02 | <@Tarinaky> | It's a pain because it's not the default behavior of vim :/ |
| 16:02 | <@froztbyte> | eh, that's usually per-language style |
| 16:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Also: lining things up leaves horrible chunks of white space. |
| 16:02 | <@abudhabi> | I have no idea why you're using vim. |
| 16:03 | <@Tarinaky> | Best text editor ever. |
| 16:03 | <@abudhabi> | A contentious statement. |
| 16:03 | <@Tarinaky> | So was yours. |
| 16:03 | <@froztbyte> | I misparsed your statement as "the parameters begin at the same position", not "the parameters begin at the same position as the function definition" |
| 16:03 | < RchrdB> | Tarinaky: https://gist.github.com/RichardBarrell/c5dd862ea8a1e889ed66 ? |
| 16:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I have to do the second one. |
| 16:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I prefer the first one. |
| 16:04 | < RchrdB> | Good, you have good taste. :) |
| 16:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Except, apparently, in my choice of text editor :P |
| 16:04 | <@froztbyte> | my vim config does the former |
| 16:04 | <@abudhabi> | RchrdB: Both are fine and make sense. |
| 16:04 | <@froztbyte> | for, like, everything |
| 16:04 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, situation |
| 16:05 | <@froztbyte> | situational* |
| 16:05 | <@froztbyte> | I've run into a couple of situations where I needed the latter |
| 16:07 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky: https://gist.github.com/3dbe484e4995efbbc850 if it helps |
| 16:11 | < RchrdB> | abudhabi: the second one leads to spurious diffs. |
| 16:11 | < RchrdB> | Add a third parameter to each. |
| 16:12 | < RchrdB> | If you add a parameter to the first, you get a 1-line diff, "+ x=baz()," |
| 16:12 | < RchrdB> | If you add a parameter to the 2nd, you get an ugly -1 +2 diff, "- arg2=bar())" "+ arg2=bar()," "+ x=baz())" |
| 16:13 | < RchrdB> | abudhabi: also, the 1st doesn't require moving the arguments horizontally if the length of the name changes for any reason, while the 2nd does. |
| 16:14 | <@abudhabi> | Reasonable objections. |
| 16:14 | < RchrdB> | I will admit that it's not as immediately grippingly pretty, and the ")" on a line by itself feels like a waste of vertical space. |
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| 16:15 | < RchrdB> | I happen to want the shorter diffs more. |
| 16:15 | <@Tarinaky> | Code is not ASCII art. The former has the 'structure' of the language as a first class citizen. |
| 16:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Rather than using whitespace to communicate subjective properties like 'prettiness' |
| 16:20 | < RchrdB> | I like code that is also art. |
| 16:21 | < RchrdB> | Maybe not so much in production. |
| 16:22 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm soulless. |
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| 17:29 | <@Alek> | Taki, you're a ginger? |
| 17:51 | <@Tarinaky> | Alek: Blonde actually. |
| 18:11 | <@Alek> | ¬_¬ |
| 18:11 | <@Alek> | hey, can you do me a favor and look up the price for Yet Another Zombie Defense, on Steam, please? |
| 18:39 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:51 | < RchrdB> | Alek: £1.59 in the UK. |
| 18:53 | < Lambo> | woooooooo |
| 18:54 | < Lambo> | SignalR didn't mention that in order for it to work on a load balanced array of servers, you need to specify machineKey for auth |
| 19:46 | <@Alek> | thanks, Rich. want to get it for 90% off? |
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| 21:47 | <@iospace> | guys |
| 21:47 | <@iospace> | Infinite loops inside infinite loops |
| 21:47 | <@iospace> | clearly /nothing/ can go wrong here |
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| 21:48 | <@iospace> | ... |
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| 21:48 | <@iospace> | infinite loop inside infinite loop inside infinite loop |
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| 22:43 | <@[R]> | Man, that beats the if (...)\n\treturn;\n/* 50 lines of comments */\n{\n\tHugeBlockOfCode();\n} pattern I found. |
| 22:43 | <@[R]> | If you spot the curlies, you'll look for the if, possibly miss the return, and be severly confused about the program flow. |
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| 23:45 | < mojojojo> | im selling comics for 1.75$ each free shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/231384707471?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m15 55.l2649 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Nov 11 00:00:25 2014 |