| --- Log opened Thu Oct 30 00:00:14 2014 |
| 00:15 | | gizmore [kvirc@Nightstar-ic1o9q.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #code |
| 00:16 | < gizmore> | <%= 12.minutes %> |
| 00:16 | < gizmore> | <?='Hello world'?> |
| 00:17 | <~Vornicus> | wat |
| 00:22 | < gizmore> | what is this channel about? |
| 00:22 | < gizmore> | programming? |
| 00:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Yes |
| 00:22 | < gizmore> | sorry |
| 00:22 | < gizmore> | good evening |
| 00:22 | < gizmore> | my name is christian, and i code |
| 00:22 | <~Vornicus> | (which is why you won't find idiots with asp or php injection flaws) |
| 00:23 | < gizmore> | the first one was ruby .erb |
| 00:23 | < gizmore> | the second works in php partially |
| 00:23 | <~Vornicus> | mm, true, that wouldn't be sensible in asp |
| 00:23 | < gizmore> | i do js,php,ruby,abap,java |
| 00:23 | < gizmore> | MOV EAX, 5 |
| 00:23 | < gizmore> | INC EAX |
| 00:23 | < gizmore> | INC EAX |
| 00:23 | <~Vornicus> | cripes |
| 00:24 | < gizmore> | may i show you how php can be? |
| 00:24 | < gizmore> | join #shadowlamb |
| 00:24 | < gizmore> | php irc mud |
| 00:25 | <~Vornicus> | As a guy who writes php for cash money? No, I've seen it~ |
| 00:25 | < gizmore> | well... hello there ... your channel got recommended by justin bieber |
| 00:25 | < Xires> | calm gizmore |
| 00:26 | < gizmore> | i am drunk and listen to heavy metal ... i am calm |
| 00:27 | < gizmore> | i will just bring my bots here and try to take over the channel? |
| 00:27 | <@Alek> | Vr0n, I think that's your cue. |
| 00:27 | < Xires> | that would not be wise |
| 00:28 | < gizmore> | just kidding |
| 00:28 | < gizmore> | it´s fun how you became water |
| 00:28 | < gizmore> | anyway |
| 00:28 | | gizmore [kvirc@Nightstar-ic1o9q.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Killed (Vornicus (if you're going to threaten botfights, do it somewhere else.))] |
| 00:29 | | gizmore [kvirc@Nightstar-ic1o9q.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #code |
| 00:29 | <@Reiv> | Hi, gizmore. Welcome to #Code. |
| 00:29 | < gizmore> | Good evening |
| 00:29 | <@Reiv> | We're a friendly bunch, but you might want to realise that it holds a disproportionate number of the channels administrators. |
| 00:30 | <@Reiv> | And networks. |
| 00:30 | < gizmore> | my first time here, is there anything that is hot topic this eve? |
| 00:30 | <@Reiv> | So please behave and we'll all get along fine, capiche? |
| 00:31 | < gizmore> | yes, please excuse my habits |
| 00:31 | < [R]> | Yay! Abother who doesnt mind PHP |
| 00:31 | < gizmore> | [R]: i did 5 years php, then switched to ruby 1y ago |
| 00:32 | < gizmore> | Reiv: i am just happy i found a new #code channel |
| 00:32 | < gizmore> | i will behave, sorry, excited |
| 00:32 | <@Reiv> | Jolly good. |
| 00:32 | < gizmore> | oh and i have years of chatbot experience |
| 00:32 | < gizmore> | like rss irc bots |
| 00:32 | < gizmore> | or stopwatch skypebots |
| 00:32 | <@Reiv> | One thing to note is we pride ourselves on a disproportionately high signal:noise ratio; the majority of chat here is indeed about code (or math, which is pretty popular too) |
| 00:33 | < gizmore> | well |
| 00:33 | < gizmore> | i have solved the "what is the difference between" question generally |
| 00:33 | <@Reiv> | Fair enough |
| 00:33 | < gizmore> | thank you |
| 00:34 | < gizmore> | it saved a lot of time already |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | Things that are up: I'm reading up on the Atari 2600 graphics hardware |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | http://www.alienbill.com/2600/101/docs/stella.html |
| 00:34 | < gizmore> | McMartin: amiga is better |
| 00:34 | < Xires> | McMartin; you're making me nostalgic |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | My retro specialties are 8-bit. |
| 00:34 | < gizmore> | did atari even have gdx? |
| 00:34 | <~Vornicus> | gizmore: this is the atari 2600 |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | Not the Atari ST |
| 00:34 | < Xires> | Vornicus; do you have time to explain some math to me? |
| 00:34 | < gizmore> | ah... the one without gfx |
| 00:34 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: all kinds, go for it |
| 00:35 | < gizmore> | Xires: i am better |
| 00:35 | < gizmore> | <-- drunk |
| 00:35 | < Xires> | I don't know how to do ..crap, gotta remember the word for it |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | Xires: I need to score a Harmony Cart, at which point I will be able to run code on the real hardware off an SD card |
| 00:35 | < Xires> | stats w/ a P |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | Permutations? Probability? |
| 00:36 | < Xires> | I think it's probability, ty |
| 00:36 | < gizmore> | 1,2 2,1 ... i hate permutations |
| 00:36 | <~Vornicus> | one of the things mathematicians have to be good at is turning the vaguest shit in the world into a formula. Explain it in as plain english as you please |
| 00:36 | < Xires> | there was something on project-euler.net that halted me |
| 00:37 | < gizmore> | Vornicus: do you know the gizmore number |
| 00:37 | <@celticminstrel> | If you mean the nPr notation, that's permutations. |
| 00:37 | < Xires> | https://projecteuler.net/problem=481 |
| 00:37 | <@Reiv> | gizmore: Chill a little. This could be interesting from the sidelines. |
| 00:37 | <@celticminstrel> | If you mean P(blah), it's probability. |
| 00:37 | < gizmore> | "The gizmore number is the first number that has not have been written down" |
| 00:38 | < Xires> | I don't understand how they're getting 0.29375 from 0.25, 0.5 & 1.0 |
| 00:38 | <@Reiv> | gizmore: I suspect that's fairly low. |
| 00:38 | <@Reiv> | Few numbers are written down these days :p |
| 00:38 | < gizmore> | Reiver: 515151515515 |
| 00:38 | < gizmore> | Reiver: 515151515516 |
| 00:38 | < gizmore> | snap |
| 00:38 | <~Vornicus> | oh man, one I haven't actually tried yet, let me look at this |
| 00:38 | <@Reiv> | Actually, you can express that number in maths anyway. |
| 00:39 | < Xires> | not being able to afford college has kept me from learning such things in a formal environment and I haven't had opportunity or reason to learn that particular subject on my own |
| 00:39 | < Xires> | Vornicus; np, take your time, please |
| 00:39 | < gizmore> | Reiv: i got a new result, what is yours? |
| 00:39 | <~Vornicus> | oh this is game theory too |
| 00:39 | <~Vornicus> | fun fun |
| 00:40 | <@Reiv> | gizmore: You can just do it using an expression rather than explicitly stating the number. ;-) |
| 00:40 | <@Reiv> | Vornicus: ... game theory, eh |
| 00:41 | | Lamb3 [Dawg@Nightstar-ic1o9q.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #code |
| 00:41 | < Xires> | Vornicus; I tried to step through it but hit a wall and couldn't understand the math |
| 00:42 | < Xires> | my notes are here: https://evilzone.org/c-c/tasks-suggestions-c/msg92058/#msg92058 |
| 00:46 | < gizmore> | your notes are crybaby notes |
| 00:46 | <&McMartin> | gizmore: You're really bad at this |
| 00:46 | < gizmore> | , is that the majority of them require a math genius that understands how to derive mathema |
| 00:46 | < gizmore> | memememe |
| 00:47 | < gizmore> | he should reconsider what he does want to calculate, then cry again |
| 00:48 | <~Vornicus> | Game theory: each player has a strategy. What is that strategy? Why is his strategy that? |
| 00:48 | < gizmore> | Vornicus: you drew |
| 00:48 | <@Azash> | Is gizmore a markov bot? |
| 00:49 | < [R]> | I'm begining to suspect he's either maladjusted or a troll. |
| 00:49 | < [R]> | Leaning on the former ATM |
| 00:49 | < gizmore> | :P |
| 00:51 | < gizmore> | i am just a codemonkey |
| 00:51 | < gizmore> | maladjusting is my business |
| 00:52 | < gizmore> | .help coffee |
| 00:52 | < Lamb3> | gizmore: Usage: .coffee. Codemonkey gets up gets coffee. This works everywhere and requires Public permissions. |
| 00:53 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: okay, hm. Okay, let's see. Let's say player 3's turn rolls around without him, or any of his pals, having gotten eliminated. |
| 00:53 | <~Vornicus> | (this is a 3/8 chance) |
| 00:53 | <~Vornicus> | Which one of his two opponents will he choose to eliminate, if he doesn't care who wins if he loses? |
| 00:54 | < Xires> | next highest skill level |
| 00:55 | < Xires> | or next closest/earliest 2nd-place winner if there's a tie |
| 00:56 | <~Vornicus> | All right. So this is 3/32 chance he'll lose to player 1, and 9/32 he'll win. (why?) |
| 00:56 | < gizmore> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8x0KrWoQ3I |
| 00:56 | < Xires> | wait..where did 32 come from? |
| 00:56 | < Lamb3> | gizmore: [YouTube] The butterfly effect - Andromeda Software Development (party)(ASD) (FullHD 1080p HQ HD Euskal 2011) (4m 12s) | Rating: 4.82/5.00 | Viewed: 13,163 | Rated: 88. |
| 00:56 | < Xires> | I thought there were 8 players |
| 00:56 | <~Vornicus> | 1/4 * 3/8 = 3/32 |
| 00:56 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: I'm doing the three-chef problem |
| 00:57 | < Xires> | oh, just the 3.. |
| 00:58 | < Xires> | so..because you mentioned 3/8, I'm guessing 0.25 = 1, 0.5 = 2, 1.0 = 4, 1 + 2 + 4 = 7...? |
| 00:58 | < Xires> | or rather, why is it a 3/8 chance? |
| 00:59 | <~Vornicus> | because 1/4 of the time chef 1 succeeds first; this leaves 3/4 of the time where chef 2 has a chance, so 3/8 of the time, chef 2 succeeds and 3/8 of the time chef 3 succeeds. |
| 01:01 | < Xires> | lost me on that..I understand 1/4 = 2/8 and such but I don't understand how you came to that conclusion |
| 01:02 | < Xires> | and the whole 'chef 1 succeeds first' thing |
| 01:03 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, let's look at the problem a little more slowly then |
| 01:03 | < Xires> | K |
| 01:03 | < Xires> | I apologize for being dense, but I didn't really 'do' highschool |
| 01:04 | <~Vornicus> | it's chef 1's turn. There are two scenarios: 1. he succeeds and gets to choose the opponent to eliminate; 2. he fails, and then it's chef 2's turn |
| 01:04 | <~Vornicus> | Scenario 1 happens, according to this, 1/4 of the time. |
| 01:04 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-nq7.p3o.224.119.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:05 | <~Vornicus> | At the moment I don't care who he decides to eliminate; this comes next. |
| 01:05 | < Xires> | wait, so chef 1 can 'win' without chef2 even being checked? |
| 01:05 | <~Vornicus> | He can succeed at impressing the judges. |
| 01:06 | <~Vornicus> | When he does so, he gets to choose an opponent to eliminate. He hasn't *won* yet. |
| 01:06 | < Xires> | K, but all of them get the chance to prepare a dish and their skill levels are used to determine the success of the dish so is it not just a max() check? |
| 01:07 | < Xires> | oh..I thought only the winner got the chance to choose..no choice was made before that |
| 01:07 | <~Vornicus> | It's turn-based. |
| 01:08 | <~Vornicus> | "does chef 1 impress the judges?" If so, then chef 1 gets to eliminate one of his opponents. |
| 01:09 | <~Vornicus> | Then if chef 2 is still in the competition he gets to offer up his dish and (possibly) eliminate one of his opponents. |
| 01:09 | <~Vornicus> | So on chef 1's turn, he may impress the judges enough to vote somebody off the island |
| 01:09 | < Xires> | immediately? |
| 01:10 | <~Vornicus> | Immediately. |
| 01:10 | < Xires> | that's not how I read it..where does it say that? |
| 01:10 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-r79.50b.180.202.IP] has joined #code |
| 01:10 | | mode/#code [+o Orthia] by ChanServ |
| 01:11 | <~Vornicus> | "On each chef's turn, he/she cooks up a dish to the best of his/her ability and gives it to a separate panel of judges for taste-testing. Let S(k) represent chef #k's skill level (which is publicly known). More specifically, S(k) is the probability that chef #k's dish will be assessed favorably by the judges (on any/all turns). If the dish receives a favorable rating, then the chef must choose one other chef to be eliminated from the compet |
| 01:11 | <~Vornicus> | ition. The last chef remaining in the competition is the winner." |
| 01:11 | <~Vornicus> | So each chef gets a turn |
| 01:11 | < Xires> | K, so as I read that.. |
| 01:11 | < Xires> | I figured all chef skill levels were assessed first, then the highest skill level was chosen as 'winner' |
| 01:12 | < Xires> | winner then gets to eliminate the 2nd-place chef |
| 01:12 | < Xires> | repeat until there is only 1 chef left |
| 01:12 | <~Vornicus> | --you know this is kind of a bad metaphor. You have a bunch of depressed russians, a single gun, and unlimited ammo. They stand in a circle, each with a different skill level, aim at someone, fire, then pass the gun to their right. |
| 01:14 | <~Vornicus> | last one alive wins. If you can call that winning. :P |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | That's quite the game |
| 01:14 | < Xires> | (goes to jail) |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | But I want to know how many bottles of vodka were present |
| 01:15 | < Xires> | Vornicus; I guess I was trying to equate it to those competitive 'reality' game shows where everyone's effort is evaluated before someone is eliminated |
| 01:15 | < Xires> | though in this case, the contestant themselves get to choose who's eliminated if they win the round |
| 01:16 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, go with the russians on this one |
| 01:16 | < Xires> | I don't see any judges logic aside from a potential max() check |
| 01:16 | <~Vornicus> | Basically the judges roll an appropriately-sided die |
| 01:16 | < Xires> | so I see no way to determine if a dish would be considered 'favorable' upon first submission |
| 01:17 | <~Vornicus> | Russian #1 has a 25% chance of hitting with his shot, Russian #2 has a 50% chance, Russian #3 has a 100% chance |
| 01:18 | < Xires> | K |
| 01:19 | < Xires> | so you're saying if #1 somehow eliminates #3, then you lose that 100% chance |
| 01:19 | <~Vornicus> | So. Russian #1 shoots and has a 25% chance of hitting, which means 1/4 of the time he hits. We'll discuss who he aims at in a minute |
| 01:19 | < Xires> | K |
| 01:19 | <~Vornicus> | Russian #2, if he's still alive, has a 50% chance of hitting, which means 1/2 of the time he hits, and 3/4 * 1/2 = 3/8 of the time, he hits |
| 01:20 | < Xires> | K, let me figure out why you did 3/4 * 1/2 |
| 01:20 | <~Vornicus> | Russian #3, if he's still alive, has a 100% chance of hitting, which means *every* time he hits, so 3/8 of the time he hits first. |
| 01:20 | <~Vornicus> | (1 - 1/4) * 1/2 |
| 01:20 | < Xires> | #1 has 25% chance..so 3/4 of the time, #2 will be going |
| 01:20 | < gizmore> | .math (1 - 1/4) * 1/2 |
| 01:20 | < Lamb3> | gizmore: 0.375 |
| 01:21 | <~Vornicus> | 3/4 of the time, he is the *first* to hit |
| 01:21 | <~Vornicus> | er, 3/8 |
| 01:21 | < Xires> | #2's chance is 1/2 so 3/4 of the time there's a 50% chance to eliminate *someone* |
| 01:22 | <~Vornicus> | Right. |
| 01:22 | < Xires> | K, that seems logical |
| 01:22 | < Xires> | please, continue |
| 01:22 | <~Vornicus> | So 3/8 of the time, #2 eliminates somebody. Finally, 3/8 of the time, we get to russian #3, who is guaranteed to hit, so 3/8 of the time, russian #3 is the first to hit. |
| 01:23 | <~Vornicus> | That's all possible people to hit first. Now: Who does russian #1 eliminate if he is the first to hit? |
| 01:24 | < Xires> | this is where the max() comes in? so #3 |
| 01:25 | <~Vornicus> | Perhaps max() comes in. But yeah, russian #1 shoots #3, because if he aims at #2, A. #3 will have no choice but to aim at #1, and B. #3 is guaranteed to kill him |
| 01:25 | <~Vornicus> | Similar logic applies to #2: he'll shoot #3 first as well, and take his chances rather than guaranteed lose outright. |
| 01:26 | | io\low_on_spoons is now known as io\out_of_spoons |
| 01:27 | < Xires> | so there's a 5/8 chance that #3 will be eliminated? |
| 01:27 | <~Vornicus> | So far, yeah |
| 01:27 | < Xires> | so...this should've been reworded to state that all chefs were instances of Steven Segal & it was a knife-throwing contest |
| 01:28 | <~Vornicus> | #3 has a slightly (if not very) more interesting choice: he can eliminate #2, or #1. Which one, and why? |
| 01:29 | < Xires> | if #3 gets to go, he eliminates #2 because it has 3/8s chance to kill him as opposed to 1/4 |
| 01:30 | <~Vornicus> | Answer's right, reason is not quite |
| 01:30 | < Xires> | K..thinking... |
| 01:30 | <~Vornicus> | Remember: the next thing that happens is the guy #3 didn't kill goes again,. What's that guy's chance of hitting? |
| 01:31 | < Xires> | oh, you have to eliminate the 1/4 chance if #1 is eliminated |
| 01:31 | < Xires> | which leaves just 50% chance to be hit by #2 |
| 01:32 | < Xires> | but if you eliminate #2, you're only left with 1/4 chance |
| 01:32 | <~Vornicus> | Right, so you eliminate #2: this gives #3 the best chance of surviving to shoot back (and thus hit and win) |
| 01:33 | < Xires> | okay, so re-evaluation of elimination potential with the assumed elimination of current target |
| 01:33 | < gizmore> | you are still trying to find reminders for your numbers? |
| 01:33 | <~Vornicus> | wat |
| 01:33 | < Xires> | speaking to me or gizmore? |
| 01:34 | <@Alek> | logic'd |
| 01:34 | < gizmore> | your discussion just sounded surreal to me |
| 01:34 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: so then: 3/8 of the time, #3 hits first. 3/32 of the time (= 3/8 * 1/4) #1 hits #3 and wins; 9/32 of the time, #1 misses and #3 hits and wins. |
| 01:35 | | * Vornicus hunts around a diagrammer |
| 01:36 | < Xires> | but this is still counting IF #2 exists in the array? |
| 01:36 | <@Alek> | this is also sort of the logic used by game players in games with more than 2 players. |
| 01:36 | <@Alek> | like, I'm thinking of MtG. |
| 01:36 | <@Alek> | except it's a LITTLE more complicated than that. :P |
| 01:36 | <~Vornicus> | This is actually getting complicated to follow around, so I want to draw it |
| 01:36 | < Xires> | Alek; what's MtG? |
| 01:36 | <@Alek> | Magic: the Gathering |
| 01:36 | < Xires> | ah |
| 01:37 | < gizmore> | Alek: all your cards are forest |
| 01:37 | < Xires> | I don't really 'play' that game..I sit around asking everyone else questions and get them to recommend to me the best course of action |
| 01:37 | < Xires> | I haven't lost yet ;-P |
| 01:37 | <@Alek> | ahaha |
| 01:37 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: if I may, what's your P-E account anyway? |
| 01:37 | < gizmore> | actually i was the guy behind Magic, tG |
| 01:37 | < gizmore> | cards sitting a lot |
| 01:38 | <~Vornicus> | (this is a relatively hard problem! Only 99 people have solved it, though it's also quite new) |
| 01:38 | | * Alek facepalms. |
| 01:38 | < Xires> | Vornicus; I don't have a P-E account |
| 01:38 | < Xires> | I don't think |
| 01:38 | <~Vornicus> | ah |
| 01:38 | < gizmore> | you guys are strange and hard to follow. nice! |
| 01:39 | < Xires> | I guess I had gotten totally lost in the wording and didn't realize that you judge for elimination before evaluating everyone AND had to account for the chance that someone would even get to go |
| 01:40 | < Xires> | it really just sounded like everyone got a chance to go first and then there was a max() check..max skill level chose 2nd highest to eliminate and then skill levels were reevaluated |
| 01:41 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, that's not the case. |
| 01:42 | < Xires> | understood |
| 01:42 | < Xires> | so where does 0.29375 come from? |
| 01:43 | < Xires> | 3/32 = 0.09375 |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | This is where it gets *extra* complicated |
| 01:46 | < Xires> | ugh, yay |
| 01:47 | <~Vornicus> | So, once #3 has been eliminated, there's a possible 'steady' state: #1 and #2 shoot at each other and they both miss |
| 01:47 | < Xires> | I do appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me..I moved around WAY too much when I was younger and was forced to drop HS and get a GED so I didn't get a chance to learn any of this |
| 01:48 | <~Vornicus> | So the probability of that happening loads back into a previous state |
| 01:49 | < Xires> | K, so 3/32 is the chance if #2 is eliminated |
| 01:50 | < Xires> | so also need to add in the chance if #3 is eliminated instead of #2 |
| 01:50 | <~Vornicus> | This is... complicated enough that I think we need a state diagram |
| 01:50 | < Xires> | which I'm guessing would be 0.2 |
| 01:51 | < Xires> | Vornicus; K, I'll look up how to read a state diagram in the process |
| 01:54 | < Xires> | oh, n/m..I know this |
| 01:54 | < Xires> | I thought it was math-oriented |
| 01:54 | < Xires> | have deal w/ FSMs enough to understand the state diagram |
| 01:55 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, this machine has 10 states |
| 01:57 | < Xires> | Vornicus; real quick, would you mind /cs set founder #Septerra Xires? |
| 01:58 | <~Vornicus> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/666 |
| 01:58 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: one moment whilst I check that |
| 01:58 | < Xires> | K |
| 01:59 | <~Vornicus> | The_Enemy is currently the founder though |
| 01:59 | <~Vornicus> | and he's been on today, what's up with that? |
| 02:00 | < Xires> | yes, he's trying to do it but doesn't know how |
| 02:00 | < Xires> | and services are different here than on my network so I can't talk him through it |
| 02:00 | < Xires> | cannot have him identify to chanserv |
| 02:00 | <~Vornicus> | get him to request it then~ |
| 02:02 | <~Vornicus> | So anyway let's look at this. 9/32 of the time, player 3 wins; 3/32 of the time, #1 wins after #3 kills #2 |
| 02:02 | < Xires> | ci, makes sense |
| 02:02 | <~Vornicus> | This leaves 5/8 of the time when #3 has already been eliminated, let's look at those. |
| 02:03 | < Xires> | K |
| 02:03 | <~Vornicus> | 1/4: #1 has killed #3, so it's #2's turn. |
| 02:04 | < Xires> | state B |
| 02:04 | <~Vornicus> | 3/8: #2 has killed #3, so it's #1's turn |
| 02:05 | <~Vornicus> | ...This is annoying! There's two different possible states right now. let's see if we can handle one, and for that I'll pick the simple one: #2's turn |
| 02:05 | < Xires> | K |
| 02:05 | <~Vornicus> | 1/4 * 1/2 = 1/8: #1 kills #3, #2 kills #1 and wins. |
| 02:05 | <~Vornicus> | 1/4 * 1/2 = 1/8: #1 kills #3, #2 misses. |
| 02:06 | <~Vornicus> | Add that to the 3/8 above: 1/2 of the time, we get to a situation where 1. it's #1's turn, and 2. #3 is dead. |
| 02:06 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: done |
| 02:06 | < Xires> | ty |
| 02:07 | < Xires> | okay, so I'm with you at 5/8 |
| 02:09 | <~Vornicus> | At this point we've broken it down thus: 3/32: #1 wins after #3 kills 2; 9/32: #3 wins, killing both #2 and #1; 1/8: #2 wins immediately after #1 kills #3. These add up to 16/32; then the remainder of the time, we're down to #1's turn, #1 and #2 are alive. |
| 02:10 | < Xires> | hrm |
| 02:11 | <~Vornicus> | SO we've got 1/2 of the time left. The next question is: what happens next? |
| 02:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Xires: Septerra as in Septerra Core? |
| 02:11 | <~Vornicus> | from here until the next time I say something in bold, we are working in relative probability, not the global probability of before |
| 02:12 | < [R]> | That game was fun, until I got stuck on Wolf hill. |
| 02:12 | < Xires> | ToxicFrog; no..but similar idea..I've been playing w/ the idea since before Septerra Core came out and really feel like they stole the name but meh |
| 02:12 | <~Vornicus> | 1/4 of the time, #1 then immediately kills #2 |
| 02:12 | <~Vornicus> | 3/4 of the time, #1 misses and it's #2's turn |
| 02:12 | <~Vornicus> | 3/8 of the time ( = 1/2 * 3/4), #2 then kills 1 |
| 02:12 | < Xires> | ToxicFrog; D&D/Pathfinder campaign setting in which the world is separated into 7 floating 'shells' |
| 02:13 | <~Vornicus> | 3/8 of the time ( = 1/2 * 3/4 again), #2 misses, and it's #1's turn again. |
| 02:13 | <~Vornicus> | And then we start over, but that's annoying |
| 02:13 | < Xires> | Vornicus; still following, but looking up relative probability |
| 02:13 | < Xires> | probability assuming that another set of actions has already taken course? |
| 02:14 | <~Vornicus> | The important part here is that we have, over 8 tries: 2 times, #1 wins; 3 times, #2 wins; 3 times, neither wins this round and we start over |
| 02:14 | <~Vornicus> | Right. This is the probability of these actions happening, having already gone through the game to hte point "3 is dead and it's 1's turn" |
| 02:15 | < Xires> | understood |
| 02:16 | < Xires> | so actually a good chance that #1 could win but still more likely that #2 would win |
| 02:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | Xires: if you didn't publish it, they can't have stolen it~ |
| 02:16 | < Xires> | ToxicFrog; you're absolutely correct |
| 02:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | (also, you've been working on this setting for 15 years?) |
| 02:16 | | * [R] has been working on one for 13... |
| 02:17 | < Xires> | but yaknow, sometimes you're sitting on the toilet and you have an idea then 3 years later you see a commercial or somethin' and you're like "dammit!" |
| 02:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 02:18 | < Xires> | Vornicus; okay, I think I'm starting to get the picture here |
| 02:18 | < Xires> | a lot more complicated than I'd originally thought but at least I can follow the logic |
| 02:18 | <~Vornicus> | This actually gets *stupid* cool |
| 02:18 | < Xires> | and now I believe I know what I need to look up & learn about |
| 02:19 | <~Vornicus> | So you've got 2 chances that #1 wins, and 3 chances that #2 wins |
| 02:19 | < Xires> | it's kinda pleasantly surprising to find that #3 really has a small chance of winning |
| 02:19 | <~Vornicus> | The chance, having arrived at "3 is dead and it's 1's turn", that #1 wins, is 2/5 |
| 02:19 | <~Vornicus> | And the chance, similarly, that #2 wins in that situation, is 3/5 |
| 02:20 | < Xires> | should there actually be a rand() choice in this code? |
| 02:20 | <~Vornicus> | Nope! |
| 02:21 | <~Vornicus> | Finding the probability is fully deterministic. If terrible. |
| 02:21 | < Xires> | okay..so it's calculation of probability & statistics..assuming that all chef/russian/segal character is fscking awesome w/ math & can miraculously see some magical scores above everyone's head.. |
| 02:21 | | io\out_of_spoons is now known as io\passed_out |
| 02:21 | < Xires> | K |
| 02:21 | <~Vornicus> | we're done with relative probability now, I'm just using the results: #1 wins 2/5 of the time, #2 wins 3/5 of the time, in the situation where #3 is dead and it's #1's turn |
| 02:22 | <@Reiv> | whoa |
| 02:23 | <~Vornicus> | #1 wins: 3/32 + 1/2 * 2/5 = 3/32 + 1/5 = (15+32)/160 = 47/160 = 0.29375 |
| 02:24 | <~Vornicus> | #2 wins: 1/8 + 1/2 * 3/5 = 1/8 + 3/10 = (10+24)/80 = 34/80 = 68/160 = 0.425 |
| 02:24 | < Xires> | damn, was working on that one |
| 02:25 | <~Vornicus> | #3 wins: 9/32 = 45/160 = 0.28125 |
| 02:25 | <~Vornicus> | heh. #3 is the least likely to win, how about that. |
| 02:26 | < Xires> | yeah, that was cool |
| 02:27 | < Xires> | WHEN I eventually am able to get back into school(assuming I can get the grants..finally), I'm going to enjoy taking some math courses |
| 02:27 | <~Vornicus> | But yeah. This is the kind of work you'll have to do: each state you have, there's a certain probability that you'll come back around to the beginning without changing anything; you have to remove that probability |
| 02:30 | < Xires> | okay, so was it really poorly written or is it that because I didn't understand probability, I didn't read #481 correctly? |
| 02:31 | <~Vornicus> | Part of it is you didn't read it correctly - though this is more about game theory and strategy than probability. |
| 02:34 | <~Vornicus> | Another part is that in an effort to keep it G-rated, they chose a very incorrect metaphor |
| 02:34 | <~Vornicus> | Or rather one that's overloaded by knowledge of existing shows: your belief that everyone competed together |
| 02:35 | < Xires> | yes, misconception by assuming similarity where there wasn't one |
| 02:35 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, the game theory I'd heard of for this one has always been "Dudes taking turns shooting" |
| 02:51 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: also looking at this problem, it looks like there might be a previous problem it builds on |
| 02:51 | < Xires> | Vornicus; ? |
| 02:52 | < Xires> | another P-E problem that needs to be done first? |
| 02:56 | <~Vornicus> | I count it likely. I haven't, obviously, searched through them |
| 02:57 | <~Vornicus> | But it takes you an awful long way; I bet there's another problem that covers taht part |
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| 03:00 | < Xires> | interesting |
| 03:00 | < Xires> | Vornicus; I greatly appreciate your time & patience, as well as your knowledge |
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| 03:02 | < Xires> | I have tried asking some others in the past for similar assistance and people either don't want to take the time to explain it or prefer ridicule over sharing of information |
| 03:02 | < Xires> | now, not only do I understand this particular problem better but I understand how to absorb the reference material that I had looked up |
| 03:03 | < Xires> | so again, thank you |
| 03:07 | <@Reiv> | Vornicus is pretty awesome. |
| 03:08 | <@Reiv> | He does maths on dice for me more than he should. |
| 03:12 | <~Vornicus> | Speaking of I should get back to that~ |
| 03:12 | <~Vornicus> | Xires: this is what I enjoy doing, more than anything else in the world |
| 03:14 | < Xires> | Vornicus; understood...eventually, I'm hoping to get a teaching degree as that's my passion |
| 03:15 | <@Reiv> | Vornicus: Did you watch the CGI tutorial |
| 03:22 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: no I didn't |
| 03:23 | <@Reiv> | Do you want to watch a CGI tutorial |
| 03:23 | <@Reiv> | The useful bit is like 7 minutes long |
| 03:23 | <~Vornicus> | Not at the moment. Your description, if accurate, was adequate. |
| 03:23 | <@Reiv> | Righto |
| 03:24 | <@Reiv> | (I don't know but it turns out there's a considerable portion of "Oh look, and this is a wargame with squad building, whee!" at the end) |
| 03:25 | <@Reiv> | (A level of emphasis I can understand, because FFG sells /board games/ primarily, and this game is a wargame they're selling board gamers [which wargamers are also fond of] so I get the idea, but to The Rest Of Us it's a bit "... yes, and?") |
| 03:26 | <@Reiv> | ((That said: The thing is marketed to board gamers. It's equally popular with wargamers. Oh, and they're high detail, prepainted minis, so SW fans are known to buy 'em purely for the shelf. If there were any more ways to make the thing go even more gangbusters than it already has, I can't think of any~)) |
| 03:27 | <@Reiv> | ((Indeed, I bought a Defender pretty much out of principle. I am pleased the meta is slowly adapting to make it semi-useful; a pity it didn't have an Advanced upgrade slot, nonetheless. Then it'd be pretty solid and tasty.)) |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | (The minis are also WAY CHEAPER than the minis wargamers are used to) |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | (At least here in the US) |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | (But the gap between kitchen table play and tourney play is much narrower, for both good and ill) |
| 04:04 | <~Vornicus> | I have had the pallet town theme stuck in my head all evening |
| 04:11 | <~Vornicus> | gnah I really need to get around to concentrating on things sometime before midnight! |
| 04:19 | <@Alek> | I liked Septerra Core. bought it again on GoG, but it breaks on my machine. :( |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | I read TF's LP of it and it cured me of any desire to ever play it. >_> |
| 04:21 | <@Alek> | well, it's no genius game, but it was fun enough. |
| 04:21 | <&McMartin> | "It also features a rather slow-paced and boring combat system which is almost, but not quite, as bad as Squaresoft's Active Time Battle system. I'm definitely going to be taking a video of some of the fights so you can suffer with me. The rest of the game is worth it, though." |
| 04:21 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: What do you mean about kitchen table play being narrower |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: So, take Magic the Gathering |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | You can drop like ten bucks on a few decks and then get together with your friends and play a few games |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | Now you decide to go complete in the local tournaments. |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | FIVE THOUSAND US DOLLARS LATER |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | etc |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | (This is less true than it once was, but) |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | But you have in the past mentioned that stuff comes in large packs in X-Wing. |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | The flip side of this is that while you're paying a fair amount to have All The Cool Models You Want |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | Once you have enough to play a few games with friends the way you'd want to |
| 04:23 | <~Vornicus> | RIght, I give up. When I show up tomorrow, if one of you would be so kind as to throw an X-Wing at me, it would be vastly appreciated. |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | You can very easily take what you have and build a list where you can go to the local competitions and not embarass yourself. |
| 04:24 | <&McMartin> | Hrm. Alek: http://lparchive.org/Septerra-Core/ includes some discussion of "I can't play this it crashes all the time" |
| 04:26 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 04:27 | <@Alek> | it actually worked fine when I originally got it, in the early 00s. |
| 04:27 | <@Alek> | on my 9x machine. |
| 04:27 | <@Alek> | 98se, to be precise. |
| 04:27 | <@Alek> | but meh. |
| 04:28 | <@Alek> | that disc got scratched up, so I bought it when it was on sale at gog. |
| 04:29 | <@Alek> | and normally their games are well done, so you can just play, but nooooo... there doesn't even seem to be a fix out there, not that I could find anyway. |
| 04:29 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: Is the issue here the barrier for cost to entry, or that a decent list is relatively easy to establish, and thus accusations could be made that the game is relatively shallow? |
| 04:29 | <@Alek> | I wasn't even the only gog user to have trouble with it, iirc. |
| 04:29 | <@Alek> | Reiv: there are literally thousands of different cards to choose from. not including reprints. |
| 04:30 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: The latter, but it is not open to that charge |
| 04:30 | <@Alek> | and they have the power creep, so older sets tend to be less powerful than newer sets, even without taking new mechanics into account. |
| 04:30 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, the skill is in manouver, not listbuilding per se |
| 04:30 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 04:30 | <@Alek> | and it's like they add a new mechanic with every new set.... |
| 04:30 | <&McMartin> | Skills and lists should match |
| 04:30 | <@Reiv> | (Though a decent list will make your life a hell of a lot easier) |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | There's a reason howlswarms dominated until fathan did. |
| 04:31 | <@Reiv> | It is no secret that seven TIE fighters, running stuff that has been out since Wave 1, is still broadly viable*. |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 04:31 | <@Reiv> | (* Nowadays you do very well to have a Stealth generator, but /aside from that/, anyhow) |
| 04:31 | <@Alek> | last I really played, slivers were STILL a thing, and artifacts were on the ascendancy. mirror something was one of the latest sets. |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | Oh, you mean Magic. |
| 04:32 | <@Alek> | hah. sorry, guess we crossed convos there. |
| 04:32 | <@Reiv> | Alek got off topic somewhere; I'm still talking Xwing |
| 04:32 | <@Alek> | yeah, sorry |
| 04:32 | <@Alek> | my bad |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, the reason this is less true for Magic now is that WotC has been heavily pushing draft play tournaments |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | So if you play those and deliberately draft cards that you don't need but that you know sell for a tidy sum, you can play in tournaments forever funded on the results of your moneydrafts. |
| 04:32 | <@Alek> | yeah, draft tends to equalize play level. |
| 04:33 | <@Reiv> | draft, wut |
| 04:33 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: It's a tournament format |
| 04:33 | <@Alek> | your buy-in gets you a random deck and X random boosters to put together a deck from. |
| 04:33 | <&McMartin> | It involves the players passing around N booster packs and each picking one per pass |
| 04:33 | <&McMartin> | So you can see what makes it around and thus guess what other people are playing, and rarity actually *matters* instead of making things more expensive |
| 04:34 | <@Alek> | pass-on isn't in all versions of draft play, iirc - but it seems to be common in mtg, yes. |
| 04:34 | <@Reiv> | ahhh |
| 04:34 | | * Alek remembers drafts when you just got a deck pack and X booster packs, and just had to pick from them, and discard the rest. |
| 04:35 | | * Alek never actually played tourney, but did read rules sometimes |
| 04:35 | <@Reiv> | So draft tournaments are assembled on the spot? |
| 04:35 | <@Alek> | yes |
| 04:35 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 04:35 | <&McMartin> | That's a different skillset from constructed |
| 04:35 | <@Reiv> | And if some lucky SOB managed to score a Super Ultra Winner card, good for him? |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | If there's more than two in the pack, that's what makes pass-on so much fun~ |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | Er, more than one, rather |
| 04:36 | <@Alek> | well, there tended to be huge drawbacks to such cards. |
| 04:36 | <@Reiv> | Ohh, I see |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | If he scored it in one case, though, he might not actually have the other cards to support it |
| 04:36 | <@Alek> | the really powerful ones tend to be either very expensive to play, or slow to play, or both. |
| 04:36 | <@Reiv> | This is card drafting, one card per booster pack, and they go round in circles? |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | That's the usual MtG approach, yeah. |
| 04:37 | <&McMartin> | When I played you did this until each player had gotten the equivalent of 3 booster packs. |
| 04:37 | <@Alek> | and of course, you're not guaranteed to pull it when playing. |
| 04:37 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, constructed is pretty much how Xwing plays (and that's fine, aside from the cheesy bastards putting fantastic upgrades in distinctly... middling... ships; IE "Why should I have to buy two E-wings to make my bloody B-wing pair awesome ;_;") |
| 04:37 | <@Reiv> | McM: That must take a while. What time frame was one looking at? |
| 04:37 | <@Alek> | a tourney is what, elimination, and runs about a day? |
| 04:38 | <&McMartin> | The draft phase is probably an hour tops? |
| 04:38 | <@Reiv> | huh, OK. |
| 04:38 | <&McMartin> | And then you play with that deck the rest of the day. |
| 04:38 | <@Alek> | games can run from several minutes to oh, I've played hourlong games. |
| 04:38 | <&McMartin> | When I played *everything you drafted but weren't using right then* were part of your sideboard, so you could swap cards in and out between games in a match. |
| 04:39 | <@Alek> | yeah, plan ahead based on what cards you saw your opponent draft. |
| 04:39 | <@Reiv> | Aha |
| 04:39 | <@Reiv> | Is the sideboard how you customise your deck against opponents when you know they're running a certain deck or the like |
| 04:40 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:40 | <@Alek> | basically |
| 04:40 | <@Reiv> | Okay. |
| 04:40 | <@Reiv> | Now, back to Xwing |
| 04:40 | <@Reiv> | What's the critique there, McMartin? |
| 04:40 | <@Reiv> | (I'm honestly curious.) |
| 04:42 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: It's not a critique |
| 04:42 | <&McMartin> | It's an observation |
| 04:43 | <&McMartin> | The *side effect* is that IME the people who play casually tend to also compete in tournaments |
| 04:43 | <&McMartin> | That's good or bad, depending |
| 04:43 | <@Reiv> | The observation being that there's a much lower barrier to entry compared to competitive wargaming tourneys? |
| 04:43 | <&McMartin> | Good because more vibrant community |
| 04:43 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 04:43 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, part of that is... hm |
| 04:43 | <&McMartin> | Bad because HALF MY GAMING GROUP IS GONE EVERY WEEK DAMMIT |
| 04:44 | <@Reiv> | haha |
| 04:44 | <@Reiv> | Part of the lower barrier is that the stuff *is* cheap |
| 04:44 | <@Reiv> | Though there is still some real differences |
| 04:44 | <@Reiv> | eg, if you want to run the 2013 world winning list, you'll need 2 Xwings, 2 Bwings... and 2 /E-wings/, just for a single card in each E-wing pack. |
| 04:46 | <@Reiv> | Cheeky bastards didn't even put that card into the Rebel Aces pack, which included a B-wing. C'mon, they have to know by now, right? >_> |
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| 04:56 | <@Reiv> | A similar problem was historically the case, McM |
| 04:57 | <@Reiv> | If you wanted to rock Soontir Fel, you had to buy an A-wing pack |
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| 04:57 | <@Reiv> | This is partly why "Everyone buys both"; it's genuinely hard to assemble lists properly unless you have a couple of everything. |
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| 05:07 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 05:07 | <&McMartin> | But that's just going to fall out of the structure |
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| 07:30 | <&McMartin> | Woo, progress |
| 07:30 | | * McMartin gets a display working roughly the way he wants on his 2600 test. |
| 07:30 | <&McMartin> | Up next: making it work the way I *actually* want. |
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| 08:30 | <&McMartin> | Excellent |
| 08:30 | <&McMartin> | Now I have written the truly first program everyone writes, and have written it for the Atari 2600. |
| 08:33 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/firstprog_2600.png |
| 08:33 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 08:41 | <@Azash> | Hahah |
| 08:44 | <&McMartin> | (This is actually my second complete 2600 program; the first was simpler and did not require hardware abuse as this one did.) |
| 08:46 | <&McMartin> | But now that I have the technique working, I can use it to write the program I actually *wanted* to write for it, which is an interactive sound chip exerciser. |
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| 08:55 | | * Julius has accidentally written variations upon "Error: Operation was successful" twice today. |
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| 09:39 | < Julius> | I think I'm getting the hang of this Stripes stuff. |
| 09:56 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Nice |
| 09:57 | <@Azash> | Stripes? |
| 09:58 | | * Tarinaky yawns. |
| 10:01 | < Julius> | Azash: A Java framework for web stuff. |
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| 11:10 | < Mirc> | op me |
| 11:10 | <@Tarinaky> | No? |
| 11:10 | < Mirc> | Yes |
| 11:10 | < Mirc> | : ) |
| 11:11 | < Mirc> | ? |
| 11:11 | < [R]> | You're an unknown so, no. |
| 11:11 | < Mirc> | you're an unknown so , yes |
| 11:11 | < Mirc> | : ) |
| 11:11 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurn |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | a #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurn |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | a #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < [R]> | Kind of wanting to setup a CI... |
| 11:12 | < [R]> | FFS |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:12 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zu |
| 11:13 | < [R]> | Tarinaky: poke |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurn |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna #zurna |
| 11:13 | < Mirc> | #zurna |
| 11:13 | | mode/#code [+b *!*mIRC@*.hsb.188.78.IP] by Tarinaky |
| 11:13 | | Mirc [mIRC@Nightstar-cs0.hsb.188.78.IP] has left #code [] |
| 11:13 | < [R]> | Yay! |
| 11:13 | | mode/#code [+o [R]] by Tarinaky |
| 11:13 | <@[R]> | I'd have done it myself, but I seem to have lost op |
| 11:13 | <@[R]> | Woo! |
| 11:13 | <@Tarinaky> | I'd have done it faster but I 1) forgot I had Ops |
| 11:13 | <@Tarinaky> | and 2) Forgot how to use Ops |
| 11:14 | <@[R]> | Heh |
| 11:14 | <@[R]> | Eitherway, I once again have proof that I truely am loved by all. |
| 11:15 | | * [R] dances with his little @ |
| 11:15 | | * Tarinaky deops [R] as a joke. |
| 11:15 | <@[R]> | NOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 11:15 | <@[R]> | I have been shamed. |
| 11:15 | <@[R]> | So foul. |
| 11:15 | <@[R]> | D: |
| 11:15 | | * [R] takes a knife, and mutters "down, not across" |
| 11:16 | <@[R]> | So anyways |
| 11:16 | <@[R]> | CI |
| 11:16 | <@[R]> | What's one that's fairly quick to setup? |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o jeroud] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o EvilDarkLord] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o gizmore] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o Julius] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o Ogredude] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o RchrdB] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | <@[R]> | I know Jenkins is popular, but it seems kind of heavy, and that usually means a billion steps. |
| 11:17 | | mode/#code [+o VirusJTG] by Reiver |
| 11:17 | <@Tarinaky> | I know nothing of CI |
| 11:17 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm really quite terrible when it comes to automation and CI |
| 11:17 | <@Julius> | What's a CI? |
| 11:18 | <@[R]> | alternatively, I really need to get ntpd and syslog-ng setup on all my systems. |
| 11:18 | <@Tarinaky> | Continuous Integration |
| 11:18 | <@[R]> | Continuous Inter- |
| 11:18 | <@[R]> | Yes |
| 11:18 | <@Tarinaky> | Basically, the absolute bare minimum set-up for CI is Cron. |
| 11:18 | <@Tarinaky> | If you want to do it as barebones/insane as possible. |
| 11:18 | <@[R]> | Cron? |
| 11:18 | <@Tarinaky> | It's a UNIX daemon for scheduling jobs. |
| 11:19 | <@Tarinaky> | i.e. log rotation, performing backups overnight... |
| 11:19 | <@Tarinaky> | That kind of thing? |
| 11:19 | <@[R]> | Yes, I can actually tell you the differences between various crond implementations |
| 11:19 | <@Tarinaky> | I think Jenkins is a front-end for Cron anyway. |
| 11:19 | <@[R]> | I meant how. |
| 11:19 | <@Tarinaky> | You write a cron job to checkout your code, run the build script and run your tests. |
| 11:19 | <@[R]> | Check-in hooks seem to make cron useless... |
| 11:19 | <@Tarinaky> | And log the results. |
| 11:19 | <@Tarinaky> | Well yes, you;'d have to do polling. |
| 11:20 | <@Tarinaky> | That's why it's the most insane way to do it. |
| 11:20 | <@[R]> | Yeah |
| 11:20 | <@Tarinaky> | But, you know, it /would/ work. |
| 11:20 | <@[R]> | Since I can't actually name a source-control system that doesn't do hooks. |
| 11:20 | <@[R]> | Oh! RCS. |
| 11:20 | <@[R]> | Except that's single-file. |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | Actually RCS might do hooks now, hmm. |
| 11:21 | <@Tarinaky> | Every VCS I know allows polling. |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | Yeah, but that's lame |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | Hooks > polling |
| 11:21 | | * Tarinaky shrugs. |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | L2async. |
| 11:21 | <@Tarinaky> | L2Jenkins |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | :p |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | UGH |
| 11:22 | <@[R]> | "NO U" would've been a better comeback |
| 11:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Ohgod Jenkins |
| 11:22 | <@[R]> | TIL |
| 11:22 | <@[R]> | Jenkins horrible/ |
| 11:22 | <@Azash> | http://jaxenter.com/angular-2-0-112094.html |
| 11:22 | <@Azash> | [R]: From what I understand |
| 11:23 | <@Azash> | Basically Travis is easier than Jenkins but not really possible to self-host |
| 11:25 | <@[R]> | https://github.com/ryankee/concrete <-- google suggests this. I think I've still got mongodb running somewhere, if not I'll hack it to use Tingo |
| 11:25 | <@[R]> | CS makes me D: though |
| 11:54 | | io\passed_out is now known as io\meh |
| 12:11 | <@io\meh> | [R]: you hate counter strike? o_O |
| 12:13 | <@TheWatcher> | CoffeeScript |
| 12:13 | <@io\meh> | ah |
| 12:48 | < Lambo> | TeamCity is best |
| 12:52 | <@Tarinaky> | Note to self: Ask ladyfriend how to make 3D programmer art. |
| 12:53 | <@TheWatcher> | I can tell you that: you get a 3D programmer to pose while a portrait painter draws and paints them. |
| 12:53 | | * TheWatcher nods sagely |
| 12:54 | <@TheWatcher> | (important point: it is generally a good idea to make sure they don't pose nude) |
| 12:54 | | * Tarinaky facedesks |
| 12:54 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: Are you implying I wouldn't look good nude :P |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Mu. |
| 12:56 | | * Tarinaky arghs at the code. |
| 12:56 | < Lambo> | good answer |
| 12:56 | <@Tarinaky> | This was working when I committed it before lunch! |
| 12:57 | < Lambo> | that's what they all say. |
| 13:02 | | * Tarinaky facepalms |
| 13:02 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm a muppet. |
| 13:03 | <@Azash> | Beware hands |
| 13:04 | <@Julius> | Pff. |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I forgot that certain applets in windows block the behavior I'm testing. |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Hence why the test passed before lunch... and fails now. |
| 13:15 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-ee9n94.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:20 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-htn.q1v.224.119.IP] has joined #code |
| 13:20 | | mode/#code [+o Orthia] by ChanServ |
| 13:22 | | jeroud [sid10043@Nightstar-a1k27g.irccloud.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:25 | | jeroud [sid10043@Nightstar-a1k27g.irccloud.com] has joined #code |
| 13:25 | | mode/#code [+ao jeroud jeroud] by ChanServ |
| 13:29 | <@io\meh> | really wishing for GOTOs in BASH |
| 13:30 | < Lambo> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17561766/is-there-a-goto-on-error-warning-typ e-of-deal-in-bash <--? |
| 13:32 | <@io\meh> | eh |
| 13:32 | <@io\meh> | sort of what I was looking for but not really |
| 13:35 | <@io\meh> | Lambo: I'm more looking for "one way in one way out" |
| 13:35 | < Lambo> | ah |
| 13:37 | <@froztbyte> | What in the hell for |
| 13:37 | <@froztbyte> | That's like the worst kind of thing |
| 13:37 | <@io\meh> | froztbyte: clean up, proper formatting of the logs |
| 13:37 | <@io\meh> | froztbyte: in C especially you want one in one out |
| 13:38 | <@io\meh> | otherwise you have this glorious condition known as "memory leaks" |
| 13:38 | <@Azash> | 14:35 <@io\meh> Lambo: I'm more looking for "one way in one way out" |
| 13:38 | <@Azash> | You mean like functions? :P |
| 13:38 | <@froztbyte> | No, gotos |
| 13:38 | <@froztbyte> | Anyway this sounds like something t |
| 13:39 | <@io\meh> | froztbyte: Gotos have /one/ legitimate use |
| 13:39 | <@froztbyte> | I probably don't want to know more about |
| 13:39 | <@io\meh> | error handling where try/catch doesn't exist |
| 13:39 | <@froztbyte> | Yeah, "avoidance" |
| 13:39 | <@io\meh> | again, see my statement on C |
| 13:39 | <@io\meh> | if you have a variable that you malloc'ed in a function and then you bail out of the function without freeing that memory |
| 13:39 | <@io\meh> | congrats, you now have a memory leak |
| 13:40 | <@io\meh> | but if you do one way in, one way out, you can make sure you're freeing it |
| 13:41 | < Lambo> | try-catch-finally :( |
| 13:41 | <@io\meh> | Lambo: C, not C++ |
| 13:49 | <@io\meh> | (also, embedded C++ doesn't have try/catch) |
| 13:50 | <@Tarinaky> | goto done; |
| 13:51 | <@io\meh> | (though embedded C++ also is sort of dead ^^;;) |
| 13:52 | <@io\meh> | it was more often "goto cleanup;" where cleanup had all the free() statements (with null checking) and the return |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | At my work it's error = ERROR_VAL; goto done; |
| 13:53 | <@io\meh> | yeah, that's generally how it goes |
| 13:53 | <@io\meh> | "if(ERROR) { goto cleanup; } |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | I generally prefer using functions to emulate the 'with' HLL concept |
| 13:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Does mean a functonsplosion though. |
| 13:55 | | caouEte [cryptofan@Nightstar-a9o.mts.251.178.IP] has joined #code |
| 13:56 | < caouEte> | free bitcoins here to http://cryptosrevolution.wix.com/beta |
| 13:56 | | mode/#code [+b *!*cryptofan@*.mts.251.178.IP] by Tarinaky |
| 13:56 | | caouEte was kicked from #code by Azash [] |
| 13:57 | <@Azash> | Unfortunately IRC does not do complete mediation |
| 13:57 | <@Tarinaky> | DOesn't banning stop them sending messages to the channel? |
| 13:57 | <@io\meh> | it does |
| 13:57 | <@Azash> | Think it's ircd dependent |
| 13:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah, but /this/ ircd. |
| 13:58 | <@Tarinaky> | So kicking just tells the bot's owner that we know. |
| 13:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Leaving them mute leaves the chance they'll get stuck like fly paper for a few hours. |
| 13:58 | | Ezoosh [c059a5c2@Nightstar-obfcgl.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 13:58 | | mode/#code [+b *!*c059a5c2@*.mibbit.com] by Azash |
| 13:59 | <@Azash> | Apparently so yes |
| 13:59 | | mode/#code [-b *!*c059a5c2@*.mibbit.com] by Azash |
| 13:59 | | Ezoosh [c059a5c2@Nightstar-obfcgl.mibbit.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 13:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I was going to wait for them to say something to make sure we're not just being overzealous. |
| 13:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh wait, it's you. |
| 13:59 | <@Azash> | Yeah |
| 13:59 | | * Tarinaky facepalms. |
| 14:00 | <@io\meh> | heh |
| 14:00 | | * Azash peers at banlist |
| 14:00 | <@Azash> | Some of those are pretty broad |
| 14:05 | < Lambo> | nice try nuget |
| 14:06 | < Lambo> | "EasyNetQ Management Client Depends on Newtonsoft.Json, would you like to remove?" |
| 14:06 | < Lambo> | "NO" |
| 14:06 | < Lambo> | you'll fuck over about 90% of my other packages |
| 14:06 | <@RchrdB> | o_O |
| 14:07 | <@RchrdB> | Isn't nuget supposed to be a package manager? |
| 14:07 | < Lambo> | it is |
| 14:07 | < Lambo> | that's probably why it asked me instead of just doing it |
| 14:07 | <@Tarinaky> | http://www.reddit.com/r/bigquery/comments/2kqe4g/words_that_these_developers_say _that_others_dont/ |
| 14:07 | <@Julius> | Once, I blindly followed suggestions from the package manage, repeatedly, until it removed everything, including itself. |
| 14:07 | <@RchrdB> | Real package managers like apt and rpm understand that, if A and B both depend on C, then removing A while B is still present must not remove C. |
| 14:08 | <@RchrdB> | apt will not even *suggest* removing C in that situation. |
| 14:09 | < Lambo> | RchrdB, I think nuget was testing me |
| 14:10 | <@RchrdB> | *unimpressed* |
| 14:10 | <@Tarinaky> | It gets a touch awkward though when you have dependencies that aren't being tracked by the package manager (./configure && make && sudo make install) |
| 14:10 | < Lambo> | it's generally pretty good |
| 14:10 | <@Tarinaky> | And when there's a package manager for your programming language (gem, pip...) |
| 14:10 | < Lambo> | gem can die in a fire |
| 14:11 | <@Tarinaky> | But it can't be expected to DTRT in those circumstances. |
| 14:11 | <@RchrdB> | Tarinaky: this is one of the reasons why I'm trying Nix at the moment, it makes it relatively easy to add things like that to the set of things it's managing. |
| 14:11 | < Lambo> | nuget is for programming libraries |
| 14:12 | < Lambo> | and it's great |
| 14:12 | < Lambo> | when it behaves |
| 14:12 | < Lambo> | and your build environment supports the latest version |
| 14:12 | < Lambo> | otherwise you end up in dependency hell |
| 14:14 | <@RchrdB> | e.g. if instead of doing cmmi manually, I add (a reference to) a build-script that does cmmi to my ~/.nixpkgs/config.nix, then Nix's upgrade step will even rebuild my cmmi'd program when its dependencies have changed. |
| 14:27 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-htn.q1v.224.119.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:28 | < Lamb3> | MRX{2} shouts: "GIIIIIIIIZMOOOOOOREEEEEE" |
| 14:30 | | Lamb3 was kicked from #code by [R] [No noisy bots] |
| 14:32 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-4r8rmb.callplus.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 14:32 | | mode/#code [+o Orthia] by ChanServ |
| 14:50 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-l2rg83.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 14:50 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 15:16 | | * TheWatcher stabs documentation that doesn't tell you want a function returns when there's an error |
| 15:17 | | * TheWatcher should not need to use test scripts just to find out what will happen with bad data, ffs |
| 15:23 | <@Tarinaky> | Why have there been so many bots in here today o.o |
| 15:24 | <@[R]> | There were only two? |
| 15:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Not counting me, of course~ |
| 15:25 | <@io\meh> | Lamb3 was a bot? |
| 15:25 | <@[R]> | Three rather, one actually joined yesterday, the other two were spambots. |
| 15:25 | <@io\meh> | apart from that nonsensical statment |
| 15:25 | <@[R]> | Yeah, it's a gamebot that reads links and other stuff |
| 15:25 | <@[R]> | It'd have been fine if it didn't announce that thing |
| 15:27 | <@io\meh> | ah |
| 15:27 | <@io\meh> | I see |
| 15:27 | <@[R]> | <Lamb3> gizmore: [YouTube] The butterfly effect - Andromeda Software Development (party)(ASD) (FullHD 1080p HQ HD Euskal 2011) (4m 12s) | Rating: 4.82/5.00 | Viewed: 13,163 | Rated: 88. |
| 15:27 | <@[R]> | ^ I kind of like that feature with all the people that dump nameless youtube videos here |
| 15:28 | <@gizmore> | features can be disabled on a per channel basis |
| 15:30 | <@io\meh> | gizmore: ? |
| 15:30 | <@io\meh> | so you own the lamb3 bot? |
| 15:31 | <@Azash> | It's fairly obvious from hostmask |
| 15:32 | <@io\meh> | ah |
| 15:34 | <@gizmore> | yup, coder and owner |
| 15:34 | < Lambo> | what language? |
| 15:34 | <@gizmore> | php |
| 15:34 | < Lambo> | I wrote a PHP IRC bot once |
| 15:35 | <@Azash> | A PHP IRC bot? |
| 15:35 | < Lambo> | it was a horrifying monstrosity |
| 15:35 | <@gizmore> | it is connected to 20+ networks :) |
| 15:35 | < Lambo> | I don't regret writing |
| 15:35 | <@gizmore> | in january i decided to start over in ruby |
| 15:35 | < Lambo> | but I regret looking at the codebase all these years later |
| 15:35 | <@io\meh> | from worst to worse, eh? |
| 15:35 | <@Azash> | io\meh: Please |
| 15:36 | <@io\meh> | Azash: i'm saying Ruby is better than PHP |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | It's certainly better than python |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | Oh |
| 15:36 | < Lambo> | hey |
| 15:36 | <@io\meh> | oh now those are fighting words |
| 15:36 | <@gizmore> | ruby is python done right :) |
| 15:36 | < Lambo> | Python is best scripting language |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | io\meh: And it makes me sad you came unarmed |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | ( ââ¿â) |
| 15:36 | < Lambo> | Ruby is pythong done wrong |
| 15:36 | < Lambo> | that's a great typo |
| 15:37 | <@io\meh> | Azash: i'm also not firing on all cylinders right now |
| 15:37 | <@Azash> | io\meh: I'm also not interested in a debate over it but I saw a great chance to snark and took it |
| 15:38 | <@gizmore> | http://trac.gwf3.gizmore.org/browser/core/module/Dog is the Lamb sourcecode :) Lamb4 is codename dog |
| 15:38 | <@gizmore> | php is horrible |
| 15:38 | <@io\meh> | it is |
| 15:38 | <@io\meh> | it is a monstrosity to all our sins |
| 15:38 | < Lambo> | create it in perl1 |
| 15:39 | < Lambo> | perl! |
| 15:40 | | * TheWatcher chuckles |
| 15:41 | < Lambo> | I've been writing an IRC Framework in C# |
| 15:41 | < Lambo> | but work has halted that progress |
| 15:42 | <@[R]> | Similar deal with node.js here |
| 15:42 | < Lambo> | if anyone suggests SmartIRC4Net, I will murder them |
| 15:42 | <@[R]> | Ha |
| 15:42 | <@[R]> | Is it worse than PircBot? |
| 15:42 | < Lambo> | it's not async, and has a tendancy to keep stale user data stored |
| 15:43 | <@[R]> | So yes. |
| 15:43 | <@gizmore> | my new ruby bot is quite nice https://github.com/gizmore/ricer2 |
| 15:43 | <@[R]> | PircBot at least refreshes user data (since it doesn't cache anything) |
| 15:44 | < Lambo> | one of my bot's features is remembering user locations based on userhost |
| 15:44 | < Lambo> | the network it runs on uses vhosts, so sometimes, if the vhost is set after the user joins a channel, the bot only remembers the first host it sees |
| 15:44 | < Lambo> | and then forgets the user |
| 15:44 | <@[R]> | (de)cloaking later F's that all up? |
| 15:45 | <@[R]> | Or vhosts, yeah |
| 15:45 | < Lambo> | it should be seeing the hostname in the friggin PRIVMSG response |
| 15:45 | < Lambo> | or when calling USERHOST |
| 15:45 | < Lambo> | but nope |
| 15:45 | <@[R]> | Apparently sending the full usermask with PRIVMSG is optional |
| 15:45 | <@[R]> | But so many clients and bots assume that you will |
| 15:46 | < Lambo> | it gets the full info on my server :\ |
| 15:46 | < Lambo> | at least call USERHOST if you need that, oh well |
| 15:47 | <@[R]> | I meant that you could validly send :[R] PRIVMSG ... as a server and the client is supposed to be able to handle that fine. |
| 15:47 | < Lambo> | when I finally get the framework done, it's going into my redone IRC bot, my old one uses MAF for addins, and I did it horribly wrong |
| 15:47 | <@[R]> | But no servers do because clients make assumptions. |
| 15:47 | <@gizmore> | my ruby bot speaks ricer-irc, libpurple, websockets and raw tcp/ip :P |
| 15:47 | < Lambo> | I was bored once |
| 15:48 | < Lambo> | and created a websocket IRC proxy |
| 15:48 | < Lambo> | mIRC connected through it happily lol |
| 15:48 | < Lambo> | not done as a proxy server, mind, but like an SSH tunnel |
| 15:54 | < Lambo> | my first IRC bot was written with mIRC script, was an actual socket bot |
| 16:03 | <@gizmore> | ricer2 bot is like completely plugin driven. irc stuff is just a plugin... currently thinking about how to split the project in multiple smaller gems, so you can bake your own bot easily |
| 16:04 | <@gizmore> | example gemfile: ricer-bot, ricer-libpurple, ricer-rss â tada, some rss bot that works with libpurple connections |
| 17:26 | | ErikMesoy [Erik@Nightstar-jffd2p.80-203-16.nextgentel.com] has joined #code |
| 17:26 | | mode/#code [+o ErikMesoy] by ChanServ |
| 20:02 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:18 | <@Alek> | $10,000 in cache: http://imgur.com/gallery/JoLoq3B |
| 20:19 | <@Reiv> | gizmore: Any particular purposes for these bots? |
| 20:20 | <@gizmore> | various... a mud/mmo, link collection, svn update announcements |
| 20:21 | <@io\meh> | did you ask before brining one in here though? |
| 20:33 | <@froztbyte> | Alek: not even bad gear, there |
| 20:33 | <@froztbyte> | http://h20565.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay/?s pf_p.tpst=kbDocDisplay&spf_p.prp_kbDocDisplay=wsrp-navigationalState%3DdocId%253 Demr_na-c00317878-177%257CdocLocale%253D%257CcalledBy%253D&javax.portlet.begCach eTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken |
| 20:34 | <@froztbyte> | 672612-081 - DIMM,16GB (1x16GB) Dual Rank x4 PC3-12800R (DDR3-1600) Registered CAS-11,RoHS |
| 20:35 | <@gizmore> | io\meh: you mean in #code ? |
| 20:36 | <@io\meh> | yes |
| 20:36 | <@io\meh> | froztbyte: that fucking link |
| 20:36 | <@gizmore> | not explicitly |
| 20:36 | <@io\meh> | my gods |
| 20:36 | <@io\meh> | gizmore: ask next time, please :) |
| 20:36 | <@gizmore> | i will :) thanks |
| 20:37 | <@froztbyte> | io\meh: what? |
| 20:37 | <@froztbyte> | io\meh: that's a good one, by all HP standards |
| 20:37 | <@froztbyte> | you should see some of their older cross-interlinking shit :s |
| 20:37 | <@io\meh> | that's still like the PHP of links right there |
| 20:37 | <@froztbyte> | I consider the fact that HP can keep pretty much all that shit consistently operating a minor miracle |
| 20:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure if you can call it "the PHP of links" when it cotains Java class names |
| 20:38 | <@froztbyte> | you can quite literally traverse 8~12 different systems (backend, frontend, login portals, the works) sometimes |
| 20:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is clearly the Java of links~ |
| 20:38 | <@froztbyte> | and not lose a step anywhere in the middle |
| 20:38 | <@froztbyte> | or even lose session state |
| 20:38 | <@froztbyte> | which must be a god-awful kind of thing to have to support |
| 20:38 | <@froztbyte> | but as the user of it, it's pretty nice ;p |
| 20:39 | <@froztbyte> | io\meh: anyway, just give it a couple of weeks, it'll change soon enough |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | for a short while, the quickspecs pages used to look like a textonly-ish version like http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c04128132 |
| 20:42 | <@froztbyte> | ah, here we go |
| 20:42 | <@froztbyte> | http://h20565.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay/?D ocLang=en&docId=emr_na-c03793258&docLocale=en_US&jumpid=reg_r1002_usen_c-001_tit le_r0004&ac.admitted=1414701700846.876444892.492883150 |
| 20:42 | <@froztbyte> | vs |
| 20:42 | <@froztbyte> | http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetHTML.aspx?docname=c04123182 |
| 20:42 | <@io\meh> | ok |
| 20:42 | <@io\meh> | that's ncie |
| 20:42 | <@froztbyte> | what the fuck |
| 20:42 | | * io\meh gives froztbyte a goto |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | the first tab I have of http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c04128132 is a pdf. |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | oh, GetHTML vs GetDocument |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | anyway yeah. craziness. |
| 20:44 | < Lambo> | aspx |
| 20:44 | < Lambo> | oh dear |
| 20:44 | < Lambo> | it's crazy asp |
| 20:44 | <@froztbyte> | Lambo: it might even be asp running on HP-UX or something, tbh |
| 20:44 | <@froztbyte> | or, at some stage, passing through HP-UX |
| 20:45 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:45 | < Lambo> | the: h20565.www2.hp.com |
| 20:45 | < Lambo> | url |
| 20:45 | < Lambo> | strikes me as them hosting on their own Moonshot |
| 20:45 | <@froztbyte> | that URL structure was a thing a little while before the Moonshot was a thing |
| 20:45 | <@froztbyte> | so I expect maybe the precursors |
| 20:46 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, quite possible |
| 20:49 | < Lambo> | I wish I had my own moonshot system |
| 20:49 | < Lambo> | doing some grid computing |
| 20:49 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | irunno. I think the moonshot is the kind of thing where you want to have problems that, if you could motivate for a moonshot, you want to be able to motivate for more than one :D |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | (because SPOFs are crappy) |
| 20:50 | < Lambo> | hehe |
| 20:50 | < Lambo> | or just do something with mapreduce |
| 20:51 | < Lambo> | oooorrrrr run a cassandra cluster on Violin flash boxes |
| 20:52 | <@froztbyte> | if I had a big budget and a reason to play, I'd build violin+PCIe-SSD stores |
| 20:52 | <@froztbyte> | the downside, I think, in that kind of scenario |
| 20:52 | <@froztbyte> | is that CPU access can actually become a pain again |
| 20:52 | <@froztbyte> | and you need to start getting creative with your bus arrangements |
| 20:52 | < Lambo> | heh |
| 20:52 | <@froztbyte> | to make sure you don't hurt yourself |
| 20:52 | < Lambo> | or go with Gridstore or Nutanix |
| 20:53 | < Lambo> | and go hyper converged :D |
| 20:53 | <@froztbyte> | (for the most part these things are sorta solved-ish /for/ you, but not always) |
| 20:53 | <@froztbyte> | Lambo: *snore* |
| 20:53 | < Lambo> | and really confuse the hell out of the power company when you're running a small cluster |
| 20:54 | < Lambo> | and confuse them more when they notice the fly-wheel UPS and stand-by generator |
| 20:54 | <@froztbyte> | things like that just strike me as tools, rather than solutions |
| 20:54 | <@froztbyte> | and there are often far easier tools |
| 20:54 | <@froztbyte> | (and/or less expensive tools) |
| 20:55 | < Lambo> | my dream, buy some Super Micro Mini ITX mobos that run Atom... the Atom with 8 core and is 64bit |
| 20:55 | < Lambo> | 20W TDP |
| 20:55 | <@froztbyte> | to do? |
| 20:55 | < Lambo> | private cloud |
| 20:55 | < Lambo> | use them as compute nodes |
| 20:56 | <@froztbyte> | meh ;p |
| 20:56 | <@froztbyte> | it's convenient, I grant you |
| 20:57 | <@froztbyte> | but I think the "extra" utility runs out after a short while (couple of months) |
| 20:57 | <@froztbyte> | and the refresh costs are just a pain |
| 20:57 | <@froztbyte> | if I could revive my old (N40L) microserver (it ate lightning), and bump resources on both of my machines here (the other is an N54L), that'd probably be enough space for what I generally need |
| 20:58 | <@froztbyte> | in my use, prototyping just has to get to PoC stage |
| 20:58 | <@froztbyte> | after that I can always get bigger gear to push it further |
| 20:58 | <@froztbyte> | hell, just with 2GB of RAM (and some overcommit) in my N54L I sometimes end up running like 8 containers at once ;p |
| 21:03 | | * froztbyte pours a whiskey, continues reading about storage things |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 31 00:00:30 2014 |