| --- Log opened Thu Oct 02 00:00:25 2014 |
| 00:15 | | * McMartin looks at the Windows 10 previews |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | ... Yeah, I think I'll be upgrading |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | Not to the preview, but when it comes out |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | The improved cmd.exe alone would be reason enough to |
| 00:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Have they dragged it, kicking and screaming, into the Century of the Fruitbat? Or at least somethign that wasn't designed by a lunatic and stuck in 1982? |
| 00:18 | <@Namegduf> | It's been upgraded to early 90s, perhaps. |
| 00:18 | <@Namegduf> | Or at least late 80s. |
| 00:18 | <@Namegduf> | I installed it in a VM. |
| 00:18 | <@Namegduf> | I think it looks pretty good. |
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| 00:19 | <&McMartin> | "Rewrap text on resize" is at least 2008, even though it *should* be 1992. |
| 00:19 | <&McMartin> | But yeah |
| 00:19 | <&McMartin> | http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in-windows-threshold/ |
| 00:20 | <@Namegduf> | Native virtual desktop support and a better app switcher that does in fact not look like shit are pretty nice, too. |
| 00:20 | <@Namegduf> | It's also been my first look at the Windows Store. |
| 00:20 | <@Namegduf> | Good god, are they in bad shape. |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | As they deserve, really |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | If we wanted a walled garden, we'd be running OS X. |
| 00:20 | <@TheWatcher> | They finally have virtual desktops, eh? |
| 00:20 | <@Namegduf> | The top apps are all things I've never heard of for rarely more than £5. |
| 00:20 | <@Namegduf> | The top paid. |
| 00:21 | <@Namegduf> | Even top grossing is bad. |
| 00:21 | <@Namegduf> | They must have virtually no uptake by anyone of significance. |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: Well, native virtual desktops. |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | You could mess with them yourself a bit as far back as, IIRC, 2k. |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | If not 2k then XP. |
| 00:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, yeah, I know that |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | But they were alien |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | (read: did not have the same ownership hierarchy as X11~) |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | (And that didn't *matter* until Vista) |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | (Which is one of the places where Vista broke everything, and honestly was entirely correct in doing so~) |
| 00:24 | <@Namegduf> | I like the backdown on metro as a destination. |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | I do very much prefer the flat widget style though |
| 00:25 | <@Namegduf> | Me too. |
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| 11:27 | | * TheWatcher stabs and stabs and stabs the MediaWiki devs |
| 11:28 | <&McMartin> | refuse to breathe |
| 11:54 | | * Azash gets promoted |
| 11:54 | <@Azash> | \o/ |
| 11:58 | < Julius> | promotions.jpg |
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| 12:37 | | * Tarinaky grumbles about automated tests that're sensitive to external noise. |
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| 14:28 | <@iospace> | ugh, what's that thing called where you can have a couple functions with the same name but different numbers of arguments |
| 14:28 | <@iospace> | polymorphism, right |
| 14:31 | <@Azash> | Overloading |
| 14:31 | <@Azash> | Polymorphism refers to class inheritance and interfaces |
| 14:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Function overloading, specifically. |
| 14:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Polymorphism is where you have functions with the same name in sub/base classes to represent specialisation. |
| 14:36 | < Syka> | er |
| 14:37 | < Syka> | i thought polymorphism was when the type of the argument changed |
| 14:37 | < Syka> | "In programming languages and type theory, polymorphism (from Greek ÏολÏÏ, polys, "many, much" and μοÏÏή, morphÄ, "form, shape") is the provision of a single interface to entities of different types." |
| 14:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah. So you have a function that takes an Animal |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | And you pass it a Dog, which specialises the Animal interface. |
| 14:38 | < Syka> | also, the answer is nearly invariably Don't Do That |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Animal has a method "noise" |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is specialised in the Dog class as "bark" |
| 14:38 | < Syka> | well that's class inheritance rather than class interfacing |
| 14:38 | < Syka> | (and inheritance is nearly always a bad idea) |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | I thought it was still part of Polymorphism. |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Multiple Inheritance craziness is just the fringe of Polymorphism. |
| 14:39 | < Syka> | also known as: Django |
| 14:39 | < Syka> | :'( |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure why you think inheritance is nearly always a bad idea. |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | I've found it a useful tool. |
| 14:40 | <@Tarinaky> | (mind, single-inheritance) |
| 14:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Particularly for handling/reducing code replication through refactoring. |
| 14:43 | <@macdjord> | Multi-inheritence is easy to use wrong, but critical in some use cases; I consider the lack of support for it to be Java's largest single flaw. |
| 14:43 | < Syka> | nah |
| 14:44 | <@Tarinaky> | There're work-arounds a lack of MI |
| 14:44 | < Syka> | allowing multiple inheritance is where it went wrong for python |
| 14:44 | <@Tarinaky> | *for a lack of MI |
| 14:44 | < Syka> | Tarinaky: composition fixes that |
| 14:44 | < Syka> | break down things into components, then build it out of these little components |
| 14:44 | <@macdjord> | Tarinaky: No, there are workarounds for various /uses/ of MI. |
| 14:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Composition is not a golden hammer. |
| 14:45 | < Syka> | it also means you can define an object's behaviour at runtime |
| 14:45 | <@Tarinaky> | It does not turn Inheritance problems into a nail any more than Inheritance turns composition problems into a nail. |
| 14:45 | < Syka> | Tarinaky: inheritance problems are ravioli code |
| 14:45 | <&jerith> | Are we discussing Python? |
| 14:45 | < Syka> | well, problems with inheritance |
| 14:45 | <&jerith> | Ah. |
| 14:46 | < Syka> | also conflicting mixins |
| 14:47 | <&jerith> | Composition is usually a better architecture than inheritance. |
| 14:47 | <&jerith> | But composition is also harder to do. |
| 14:47 | < Syka> | conflicting mixins is basically making me hate working on some parts of the code at work |
| 14:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Composition and Inheritance are best when used hand-in-hand. |
| 14:48 | < Syka> | we've got bases of mixins of etc |
| 14:48 | <&jerith> | Composition works best when you use tools like zope.interface. |
| 15:13 | | * RchrdB blinks. |
| 15:14 | < RchrdB> | jerith: I'm always slightly (exceedingly) surprised when I hear about people using zope.* stuff outside of the Plone ghetto. |
| 15:14 | <&jerith> | RchrdB: zope.interface is really good. It's not like the rest of Zope at all. |
| 15:14 | < RchrdB> | I agree with you on that. |
| 15:15 | <&jerith> | I think there are a couple of other good bits as well, but I don't know what they are. |
| 15:15 | | * RchrdB wrote http://stackoverflow.com/a/2840774/157044 a couple years ago. |
| 15:17 | < RchrdB> | The good bits are mostly in the stuff that got labelled "zope 3", mostly. |
| 15:17 | <&jerith> | I tried zope in about 2004, give or take a year or so. |
| 15:17 | < RchrdB> | Zope's database, ZODB, is surprisingly good for, uh, quick prototypes. Don't try to run Facebook on top of it. |
| 15:18 | < RchrdB> | The company where I work got REALLY into Zope and then Plone a while before I joined, then lately into Pyramid. |
| 15:18 | < RchrdB> | I would actually recommend Pyramid. |
| 15:21 | <&jerith> | Pyramid's a collection-of-standalone-bits web framework, isn't it? |
| 15:22 | <&jerith> | "I'm a linguist, so I get to make up words." |
| 15:22 | <&jerith> | Best quote of the conference so far. |
| 15:36 | < RchrdB> | Yes, pretty much. |
| 15:37 | < RchrdB> | modulo the fact that all of the standalone bits actually *work* together smoothly because they're written to or because there's glue somewhere to make them. |
| 15:38 | < RchrdB> | It's still very much "use what is useful for your app, disregard the rest at no cost". |
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| 18:06 | <@Tarinaky> | https://searchcode.com/?q=if%28version%2Cstartswith%28%22windows+9%22%29 |
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| 18:41 | <@iospace> | looking through this code, profound programmer is a useful tool |
| 18:41 | <@iospace> | I may get a poster as a joke V: |
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| 19:15 | <@iospace> | http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/page/17 I want this. Right now. It sums up this GODS DAMN CODE |
| 19:15 | <@iospace> | wait |
| 19:15 | <@iospace> | wrong link |
| 19:15 | <@iospace> | http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/post/27214842818/text-thousands-of-lines-and-ze ro-comments-merry this ^_^ |
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| 19:22 | < Julius> | Braces on the next line? I guess you would also support Hitler. |
| 19:23 | <@iospace> | they do that |
| 19:23 | <@iospace> | that's something I don't particularly mind... JUST THEY'RE NOT CONSISTANT WITH IT |
| 19:23 | <@iospace> | (mind you, this isn't in house code, vender code we're trying to take over devel in house for) |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 03 00:00:41 2014 |