| --- Log opened Tue Aug 05 00:00:07 2014 |
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| 00:14 | <&Derakon> | Zemyla: Web 3.0 is when the entire website is a single Flash app, so you can't bookmark anything. |
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| 00:26 | < gnolam_> | s/Flash/javascript |
| 00:27 | <@RchrdB> | Derakon, that's what the HTML5 history API solves. |
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| 00:27 | <@RchrdB> | albeit in a somewhat error-prone way, so you're mildly boned if the author commits any bugs by accident but oh well |
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| 02:40 | <&Derakon> | Funky. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25078285/replacing-a-32-bit-loop-count-variab le-with-64-bit-introduces-crazy-performance |
| 02:43 | <&McMartin> | Top answer, woo |
| 02:44 | <&McMartin> | I like how the result is in fact a single sentence long. |
| 02:45 | <@Azash> | Derakon: Brilliant |
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| 02:47 | <&McMartin> | (Albeit one with significant implications for compiler instruction-selection passes) |
| 02:48 | <@RchrdB> | Someone in the comments claims that "xor dest,dest" should be enough to break the false dependency. |
| 02:51 | <&McMartin> | Sounds like you'd have to test that stuff on hardware to make sure |
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| 02:54 | <&Derakon> | My main takeaway from this is "I probably don't want to have the job of optimizing things to this level." |
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| 03:19 | <@Reiv> | Nuke it from orbit. |
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| 05:35 | < Harlow> | Just a general question to those who would like to answer. Whats the most lines of code you've written without testing and on the first try it works without need for any revisions? |
| 05:36 | <@macdjord> | Few hundred, I think. |
| 05:37 | < Harlow> | mac: what language? |
| 05:37 | <@Reiv> | ... about fifty or so, but this is because I don't try to write code without said errors to start with |
| 05:37 | <@Reiv> | I write a metric fuckton of SQL, and in Oracle it is easier to hit 'run' than it is 'debug' |
| 05:37 | <@macdjord> | Harlow: Python. Java. |
| 05:37 | <@Reiv> | Or, indeed, 'prompt for table name' ~ |
| 05:37 | <@Reiv> | "... did I get that right? *F9*" |
| 05:38 | < Harlow> | Reiv that makes me want to cringe. |
| 05:38 | <@Reiv> | Harlow: I do not have a great respect for the IDE work expects me to use ¬¬ |
| 05:39 | <@Reiv> | If I try, it would probably be a couple hundred lines of straightforward-but-verbose SQL, as many of the tests were out of habit not need |
| 05:39 | <@Reiv> | But beyond that you're getting to tricky logic shit anyway and so testing is pretty much demanded. |
| 05:39 | <@Reiv> | Of course, given it's SQL |
| 05:40 | <@Reiv> | I could also have written the whole thing on one line, or many hundreds :P |
| 05:40 | <@Reiv> | But neither of those would be fair. |
| 05:41 | < Harlow> | Reiv, maybe you can answer me this. Why should you always back up SQL databases? I mean is it a stability issue or just a better safe than sorry type deal? |
| 05:41 | <@Reiv> | Why should you run your hard drives in a RAID? |
| 05:41 | < Harlow> | Ah. |
| 05:41 | < Harlow> | i get it now. |
| 05:42 | <@Reiv> | Beyond "Because the data is valuable and hardware is fallible", there's no particular need due to instability or the like |
| 05:42 | <@Reiv> | But, y'know, data having value, etc |
| 05:42 | < Harlow> | is SQL all there is for databases? |
| 05:44 | <@Reiv> | No. |
| 05:45 | <@Reiv> | In fact, SQL isn't a 'database', it's a programming language designed to ask questions of databases |
| 05:45 | <@Reiv> | There are lots of these, but SQL has become something of a default if only due to longevity. |
| 05:45 | <@Reiv> | Then if the question becomes "Are relational databases the only sort" the answer is /also/ no |
| 05:46 | < Harlow> | is SQL good at searching or is it better to use a language like C++ for heavy duty lifting when it comes to sorting. |
| 05:46 | < Harlow> | in short, how does google do searching? |
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| 05:47 | <@Reiv> | Uh |
| 05:47 | <@Reiv> | Google is going to be a tricky example |
| 05:47 | <@Reiv> | And again, SQL is a language, not a paragim |
| 05:47 | <@Reiv> | paradagim |
| 05:48 | <@Reiv> | I imagine it does not use SQL because searching in the sense of Google is not really something relevant to SQL |
| 05:48 | <@Reiv> | SQL is for more structured queries as a language. |
| 05:48 | <@Reiv> | (see what I did there) |
| 05:49 | <@Reiv> | SQL = Structured Query Language~ |
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| 05:50 | < Harlow> | YEP, now I feel stupid for not knowing what the acronym stood for. |
| 05:50 | < Harlow> | you can tell how much of an expert I am on sql. |
| 05:50 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, so |
| 05:51 | <@Reiv> | SQL is brilliant at querying things in a standard database design |
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| 05:51 | <@Reiv> | And can handle a great many of the alternative ones too |
| 05:51 | < Harlow> | is sql capable of hash tables? |
| 05:52 | <@Reiv> | ... that's a trick question again. |
| 05:52 | <@Reiv> | SQL is how you ask a database a question |
| 05:52 | <@Reiv> | What the *database* is capable of... |
| 05:52 | < Harlow> | ah... |
| 05:52 | <@Reiv> | I understand that Oracle systems use hash tables for certain data types, as one of its many systems of indexing |
| 05:52 | <@Reiv> | (oh my god so many systems) |
| 05:53 | < Harlow> | can SQL make external calls or can it only be called? |
| 05:53 | <@Reiv> | ... what sort of external calls |
| 05:53 | <@Reiv> | SQL itself is like a scripting language |
| 05:54 | <@Reiv> | In Oracles case, they also offer PL/SQL which is a fullblown programming langauge that seamlessly integrates SQL, and that is turing complete |
| 05:54 | <@Reiv> | I suspect given the direction of your questions, the answer is 'do more research'. |
| 05:54 | < Harlow> | to google |
| 05:54 | <@Reiv> | Because whatever it is you want is highly specific, and you'll want to figure out your architecture beforehand. |
| 05:54 | <@Reiv> | Google is... not a good starting point to research |
| 05:55 | <@Reiv> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform |
| 05:55 | < Harlow> | do you have a recommendation? |
| 05:55 | <@Reiv> | I don't know what you're trying to learn and/or achieve |
| 05:55 | < Harlow> | collect a large database of nouns, and things that describe them. |
| 05:56 | <@Reiv> | What do you want to do with these afterwards? |
| 05:58 | < Harlow> | show what words have common adjectives |
| 05:58 | < Harlow> | when searched of course. |
| 05:58 | <@Reiv> | Define 'search' |
| 05:58 | <@Reiv> | If you mean 'I type sausage and I get results for sausage, bratwurst and salami' you're going to have a bad time |
| 05:59 | <@Reiv> | If you mean 'I type sausage and I get back whatever I told it to do so in the first place', you're going to have an easier job. |
| 05:59 | <@Reiv> | The answer is "Yes, an SQL database can do that for you; if you are literally dealing with nouns attached to adjectives, you are going to want three tables, minimum" |
| 05:59 | <@Reiv> | Nouns table, Adjectives table, and the many-to-many between them |
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| 06:34 | <@macdjord> | Harlow: Re: Why You SHould Always Backup SQL Databases: If you're talking about a production enviroemtn, Reiv's answer (the same reason you RAID disks) is correct. In /developement/, it's more a matter of the fact that databases do /not/ have a general UNDO, and are not subject to source control. It's like coding shell scripts in a root window - the system will not ask you 'are you sure?' when you type 'drop table main', anymore than *NI |
| 06:34 | <@macdjord> | X does when you type 'rm -rf ~ *'. |
| 06:40 | < Harlow> | pretty much this right mac http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png |
| 06:40 | <@macdjord> | Harlow: Yes. And you can do that /completely by accident/ real easy. |
| 06:41 | <@macdjord> | Well, okay. Not /quite/ that bad; as far as I know there's no way to drop tables without explicitly naming them, so that's hard to do by accident. |
| 06:43 | <@macdjord> | But it's real easy to do 'DELETE FROM MYTABLE WHERE MONEY <> 0" instead of "WHERE MONEY <= 0", and not realize anything's wrong until you get back the message sayin '1.3 million rows deleted'. |
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| 07:50 | <&Reiver> | macdjord: thankfully, oracle has a COMMIT |
| 07:51 | <&Reiver> | As do most/all others |
| 07:52 | <&Reiver> | (I dunno if 'all', but certainly the big ones) |
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| 09:49 | <@Zemyla> | Night, everyone. |
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| 13:12 | < ErikMesoy1> | More web 3.0-ism: My email has lost the ability to set reply-to on a single message. I can only set it account-wide. |
| 13:12 | | ErikMesoy1 is now known as ErikMesoy |
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| 13:12 | < luke> | ErikMesoy: What client? |
| 13:13 | <@ErikMesoy> | luke: Yahoo |
| 13:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | Single-message reply-to might still be hiding somewhere, but the official docs only seem to mention account-wide. |
| 13:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | Descriptions of single-message reply-to refer to older versions of Yahoo!Mail and options which are no longer present. |
| 13:14 | < luke> | Obviously you're too dumb to have such a complex feature. |
| 13:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | (Third-party descriptions, that is) |
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| 13:34 | | * ErikMesoy attempts to set new password at uni, finds that uni password handling is terrible. |
| 13:34 | <@ErikMesoy> | It's got pretty much all the non-joke versions of "Password must not contain the reversed name of an ancient chinese emperor". |
| 13:35 | <@ErikMesoy> | *me typing new password* Error, password must contain at least one capital letter *new password* Error, password must contain a capital letter not at the start of password *new password* Error, password must contain at least one non-alphabetic character |
| 13:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | Also: Error, too close to a previously used password |
| 13:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | Note the *a*. It keeps records of at least three passwords back, because that suggestion was nothing like my two most recent ones. |
| 13:37 | < luke> | Before you know it, they'll be emailing you a password reminder every month |
| 13:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | Or maybe it uses a hash function and I got a very unlucky collision. |
| 13:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | luke: Nahhh. The email requires my password to log in to. :p |
| 13:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | University sets up uni-email accounts for students, and it is very hard to get them to communicate to my personal email |
| 13:38 | <@ErikMesoy> | And the uni-email account uses the same password as logging into the rest of the uni systems such as signing up for courses. |
| 13:46 | < [R]> | I kind of wish people would just use chkpasswd and configure it non-stupidly. |
| 13:46 | < [R]> | It's basically setup so that if you've got a really long password, you don't need to match all the cases it wants for a shorter one. |
| 13:47 | < [R]> | Eg: a short password might need numbers and symbols, but a long password would be fine with either or (like an actual punctuated sentence). |
| 13:49 | < [R]> | <ErikMesoy> Note the *a*. It keeps records of at least three passwords back, because that suggestion was nothing like my two most recent ones. <-- the PAM that does that does it by using a similarity hash (similar things will have similar hashes). |
| 13:50 | <@ErikMesoy> | [R]: I think your suggestion has a bit of a hurdle of "and configure it non-stupidly". It should come configured non-stupidly, instead. |
| 13:51 | < [R]> | It comes non-configured (as it's a library) |
| 13:51 | <@ErikMesoy> | What I'm seeing here is that the underlying problem is that someone was not behaving non-stupidly in setting the original password requirements. |
| 13:52 | <@ErikMesoy> | If they could be trusted to behaving non-stupidly with chkpasswd, they should just have been asked to behave non-stupidly with the basic password functions. |
| 14:03 | < [R]> | Fair enough |
| 14:06 | < [R]> | But it's setup in a way that kind of clues people in that it can be configured non stupidly. The configuration is actually just 4 integers. I'd explain in full but I've got to go, basically it's just length of password for how strict it'll behave. It doesn't let them do shit like maximum password length, and it does a few other things that give the password maker an "or do this". |
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| 22:39 | <@gnolam> | Freaky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipTyCJi0t1Y |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 06 00:00:23 2014 |