| --- Log opened Mon Aug 04 00:00:51 2014 |
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| 03:02 | <&McMartin> | And now, TRIPLE buffering. |
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| 03:05 | <~Vornicus> | ah ah ah |
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| 03:48 | <&McMartin> | OK. |
| 03:48 | <&McMartin> | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63644917/mapgen.prg |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | Or https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/coreflight_menu.png for the non-animated version |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | Of course, pressing the fire button now actually quits the program instead of, you know, starting a game. |
| 03:52 | <@Reiv> | That's less ideal |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | The game is kind of, well |
| 03:53 | <@Reiv> | Query: Did the system that's coded for have an actual clock? |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | Not written, nor does it have any content |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | Define "actual clock" |
| 03:53 | <@Reiv> | A, uh, clock with a battery |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | No. |
| 03:54 | <@Reiv> | So one could not call SYSDATE() or equivalent then |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | It does have a chip that counts seconds since poweron, and it also has a programmable timer interrupt that defaults to 1/60th of a second. |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | And then there are the raster interrupts. |
| 03:54 | <@Reiv> | That seems a very specific thing to have |
| 03:54 | <@Reiv> | A clock to count how long it's been running |
| 03:54 | <~Vornicus> | man uptime |
| 03:55 | <&McMartin> | It's a stopwatch instead of a calendar. |
| 03:55 | <@Reiv> | And its main use would be |
| 03:55 | <&McMartin> | ... anything that ever has a countdown clock |
| 03:55 | <&McMartin> | Or a count-up clock |
| 03:56 | <@Reiv> | oh, right~ |
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| 03:56 | <@Reiv> | Yeah OK |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | It turns out the raster interrupts are the things you generally want to trigger off of for timing though. |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | If only because you're doing that anyway to keep the animation consistent (or, in this particular case, so as to scroll only part of the screen). |
| 04:01 | <@Reiv> | Could you trigger the chip to reset, or did you have to run [Clock] - [Seconds Since Game Start] in order to have an in-game timer |
| 04:03 | <&McMartin> | You can trigger the chip to reset. |
| 04:03 | <&McMartin> | It also does minute/hour rollovers on its own. |
| 04:03 | <&McMartin> | Or you can look at a 24-bit tick counter if you just want 60ths of a second. |
| 04:04 | <&McMartin> | (When using basic, the former is "TI$" and the latter is "TI"; the former is assignable and the latter is not) |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | (When using assembler, the time-of-day clock is much harder to get to than the tick counter, and I'm not sure why) |
| 04:06 | <&McMartin> | (It may be "I'm looking in the wrong chapter of my reference book"~) |
| 04:09 | <@Reiv> | haha wait |
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| 04:09 | <@Reiv> | The C64 does 60 FPS right |
| 04:10 | <~Vornicus> | on NTSC, yes |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | On NTSC it does 60FPS but on PAL it is 50. |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | Even in NTSC the clock tick system and the raster scan are not hard-synced. |
| 04:11 | <@Reiv> | While previous-gen consoles were legendary for setting their output to 30fps. |
| 04:11 | <~Vornicus> | C64 like most systems that are expected to connect to pre-HD TVs has variations for each TV standard. |
| 04:12 | <&McMartin> | By "previous gen" do you mean the XBox 360 and friends? |
| 04:12 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: note that on standard definition NTSC TVs, 30fps *is* a whole frame |
| 04:12 | <~Vornicus> | 60fps is how long it takes to get from top to bottom, but you only hit half the phosphors on the way down. |
| 04:13 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: As it happens, C64 emulators default to 50FPS (and, well, more generally PAL/SECAM emulation instead of NTSC) because Commodore won the war in Europe in ways it did not in North America or Japan (where Apple and the MSX were more influential). |
| 04:13 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: Yeah |
| 04:13 | <&McMartin> | Right, so, see Vorn's comment there. |
| 04:14 | <&McMartin> | In part |
| 04:14 | <&McMartin> | If you're hooking to an SDTV, that is the only way you get a window that's all of 480 pixels tall instead of, like, 240. |
| 04:14 | <&McMartin> | OTOH, that is still too small which is why you are hooking them to HDTVs |
| 04:14 | <&McMartin> | And, well, you aren't getting blazing speed from a $300 system when you're trying to push 1080p =P |
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| 04:16 | <&McMartin> | Because the clocks were also powered by running the AC power through a modulating transformer, the clock speed on PAL and NTSC systems was also subtly different |
| 04:16 | <&McMartin> | Which among other things will put your music out of tune even if you correct for durations. |
| 04:16 | <&McMartin> | (On the C64) |
| 04:18 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, the generation *before* the C64 and the NES actually had to command the VSYNC and such "by hand" and were thus carefully pacing their computation and I/O to the frame's event cycling. |
| 04:19 | <&McMartin> | That said |
| 04:19 | <&McMartin> | The previous gen was the point where looking nice when still was deemed more important than Updating Every Refresh Cycle, and when the framerates started tanking, AIUI |
| 04:19 | <&McMartin> | Because they started racing gaming PCs and, uh, can't really keep up~ |
| 04:20 | <~Vornicus> | Note that you can probably get 60fps out of an xbox 360 but for fast-moving screens that starts to look funny; interlace is weird-looking |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: Well, that's why you normally hook an xbox 360 to an HDTV. |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | Or a PS3. |
| 04:21 | <&McMartin> | Mass Effect on an SDTV has unreadable text. =P |
| 04:21 | <~Vornicus> | it's true |
| 04:21 | <&McMartin> | And that's less "interlace" (though that certainly doesn't help!) but more "480 vertical pixels? What is this, 1991?" |
| 04:22 | <~Vornicus> | c64 has 200 + a little addressable vertical space |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | Formally it's 200 |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | The rest is "you can set a border color" |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | 320x200 was a common standard because you can fit a 320x200 bitmap juuust into 64Kb, and you can fit a 320x200 *paletted image* just into 64KB. |
| 04:24 | <&McMartin> | (The latter being MCGA/VGA's mode 13h, which played very nicely indeed with the 16-bit x86 memory segments) |
| 04:24 | <~Vornicus> | you might be able to --- I'm told this was a possibility -- shift the location of the corners of the character hunks -- but I'm not sure how much time you'd have to actually do it. I imagine it's frightening |
| 04:25 | <&McMartin> | You can do that thing, but I don't know of any way to get the borders larger than 40x25 8x8 blocks. |
| 04:25 | <&McMartin> | In "normal gaming operation" you dropped that to 38x24 so that you could get smooth scrolling without noticable gaps. |
| 04:26 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah |
| 04:26 | <&McMartin> | But if you show that gap with a scroll, the space is blank. |
| 04:27 | <&McMartin> | I guess you could try shifting the scroll mid-scanline |
| 04:27 | <&McMartin> | But I have evidence the VIC-II chip caches values from the registers sometimes, so it might not work, for one |
| 04:27 | <~Vornicus> | Man, every time I think of C64 I have two thoughts: 1. "I need to work on vorns ahoy" and 2. "I wonder what save new york would look like if made today" |
| 04:27 | <&McMartin> | And for two you still wouldn't have the *data* available. |
| 04:28 | <&McMartin> | ... Given how people *played* Save New York, I suspect it would look a lot like Saint's Row 3. |
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| 04:28 | <~Vornicus> | hahaha |
| 04:29 | <~Vornicus> | Hey I was pretty decent at it |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | My "shoot down a corridor and get away" joystick shake brought all the alien robot doom birds to the graveyard |
| 04:30 | <@Reiv> | whut |
| 04:31 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: Save New York is a game where you shoot giant alien robot doom birds before they chew buildings to death |
| 04:32 | <~Vornicus> | (at which point said building collapses on top of them, with pretty spectacular effects for a C64 game) |
| 04:33 | <&McMartin> | There was also friendly fire |
| 04:33 | <~Vornicus> | You're in a jet (which is actually shaped like a slightly-more-swept-wing airliner) to do this. And then the doombirds lay eggs which release similarly chew-happy ground-based larva, who also get into the sewer and subway system |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | So pretty much everyone *I* knew played it as Landscape Destroying Simulator |
| 04:34 | <~Vornicus> | I didn't actually know anyone else with a c64 that lived in teh same town |
| 04:36 | <~Vornicus> | You could get out of your plane and wander around the sewers to kill the larva (you could not, however, reach the surface streets) |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | s/kill the larva/get run over by subway trains/ |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, you were *way* better at this game than me or any of my friends~ |
| 04:37 | <~Vornicus> | I was a little better at that than -- yes |
| 04:37 | <&Derakon> | I can confirm that I just shot all the buildings down. |
| 04:37 | <&Derakon> | Going into the subways was a sucker's bet. |
| 04:37 | <&McMartin> | Slamming into buildings would also do serious structural damage to them, so I also imagine a modern remake would not quite so openly invite itself to become a 9/11 Re-Creation Simulator |
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| 04:38 | <~Vornicus> | It's true. |
| 04:38 | <~Vornicus> | Though the whole thing was pretty 9/11-y |
| 04:39 | <~Vornicus> | I mean the buildings would collapse straight down |
| 04:39 | <~Vornicus> | Which I guess also happened in Rampage but |
| 04:39 | <&McMartin> | Ease of level design and tile-based animation |
| 04:40 | <~Vornicus> | Truth |
| 04:40 | <~Vornicus> | but it is, you know, also actually how it works~ |
| 04:44 | <~Vornicus> | The title screen was pretty cool; it was attract mode, except no planes, and among other things eggs would bounce off the titles like they would buildings |
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| 09:50 | <@Zemyla> | Hey everyone. I haven't been here in a while. |
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| 11:37 | <@Azash> | Hullo |
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| 12:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Ruby: I am having trouble with code of the form: http://pastebin.com/3tvitQve |
| 12:02 | <@Tarinaky> | It gives me an error that there's a missing end token... but as far as I can see by inspection everything is neatly matched. |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh wait. |
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| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I think I see the issue. |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Ignore me, I am derp. |
| 12:05 | <@Tarinaky> | (In my actual code I had 'unless ??? do') |
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| 18:13 | <@Zemyla> | Who here still plays Spacechem? |
| 18:15 | < VirusJTG> | not I |
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| 18:31 | <@ErikMesoy> | I've stopped |
| 18:33 | <@Zemyla> | Shame. I've gotten back into it now that there are new ResearchNet puzzles. |
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| 19:46 | <@celticminstrel> | I'll get back into it, eventually... |
| 19:55 | <@Zemyla> | Did any of you complete Freedom of Choice? |
| 19:56 | <@Zemyla> | Because I finally completed Pseudoethyne, but I need to do Freedom of Choice now. |
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| 19:58 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't remember how far I got, but I know I didn't finish the main sequence. |
| 19:58 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm probably at the third or fourth planet? |
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| 20:07 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:23 | <@gnolam> | I started replaying it, but didn't get as far as last time. There comes a point where the puzzles stop being fun and instead feel like work. |
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| 22:27 | <@ErikMesoy> | Wow, Twitter has turned to shit. I went to check in on two of my friends, and found that 1) tweeting multiple links to tweets makes one of the links into javascript click-here-to-open-in-this-tab and the other links become inactive, and 2) a person's twitter.com/name page does not show all their recent tweets. |
| 22:27 | <@ErikMesoy> | Clicking on one of the tweets to open it-and-its-conversation revealed new tweets that were not in the person's main feed. |
| 22:28 | <@ErikMesoy> | Who the hell thought that making links unclickable was in any way, shape, or form a good idea? |
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| 22:38 | <@Tamber> | Erik: Pah, clickable links is soooo Web2.0. |
| 22:38 | <@Tamber> | ~ ¬.¬ |
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| 23:59 | <@Zemyla> | So what the heck is web 3.0 then? |
| --- Log closed Tue Aug 05 00:00:07 2014 |