| --- Log opened Wed May 14 00:00:50 2014 |
| 00:04 | <~Vornicus> | 255.255.255.255 |
| 00:05 | < Julius> | Ping? |
| 00:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Most consumer routers are 192.168.{0,1}.255 or 192.168.255.255, so broadcast on those subnets |
| 00:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Alternately, what model is it? |
| 00:05 | <~Vornicus> | yeah. |
| 00:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | If it's second hand it could be anything and a factory reset is probably a good idea |
| 00:05 | < Julius> | SpeedTouch 78OWLT. |
| 00:05 | < Julius> | Problem: Reset button doesn't seem to work. |
| 00:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's a 0, not a O, in that model name |
| 00:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, Speedtouch? |
| 00:06 | <@TheWatcher> | I note that 169.254.0.0/16 addresses are link-local addresses, usually happen when DHCP fails |
| 00:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's not a router. |
| 00:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's a bastard router/switch/WAP/DSL modem hybrid. |
| 00:07 | <~Vornicus> | oh, good times shall be had |
| 00:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | Manual: http://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/PDF/780wl_userguide.pdf |
| 00:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | You are, in all likelihood, entering a world of pain |
| 00:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Anyways, just pressing the reset button just pulls RST |
| 00:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | You want to turn it on, let it boot, then hold down the reset button until the power light glows red |
| 00:09 | | * Vornicus is randomly reminded of one of TF's shirts from long ago |
| 00:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which one? |
| 00:13 | <~Vornicus> | SYN - ACK |
| 00:14 | <~Vornicus> | Which is actually the only shirt I have known you to have. |
| 00:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 00:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | that one may have been retired due to wear, actually |
| 00:15 | < Julius> | With some jiggling, it became possible to properly press the reset button using the plug of my cellphone charger. |
| 00:15 | < Julius> | Hardware reset completed! |
| 00:15 | < Julius> | Gateway obtained! |
| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | Woo |
| 00:16 | <~Vornicus> | All sorts of other nerdy things with exclamation points! |
| 00:17 | < Julius> | Default security mode on wireless: WEP. |
| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | Boo. |
| 00:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | I can pretty much always top that |
| 00:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Because my current modem, before I forced it open and put it into bridge mode, was a similar bastard hybrid device |
| 00:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | With the admin console listening on both the LAN and WAN interfaces |
| 00:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | http |
| 00:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | password admin/admin |
| 00:18 | <~Vornicus> | um |
| 00:19 | <~Vornicus> | and, let me guess, open wireless |
| 00:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | I don't actually remember |
| 00:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | But probably |
| 00:22 | < Julius> | OK. I can ping across this mini-network. |
| 00:39 | < Julius> | Awesome. This RDP thing works! |
| 00:42 | < Julius> | This is really pimp. |
| 00:42 | < Julius> | Thanks for the help, guys. |
| 00:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're running linux you might also want to check out NX, which is pretty boss |
| 00:45 | < Julius> | These are WinXP and Win7. |
| 00:46 | < Julius> | And I'm using PuTTY/WinSCP for my Raspi. |
| 00:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 00:47 | < Julius> | Hum. I have a wifi connection on the remote box. But it tries to reach internet on the wired connection, which doesn't have an internet connection. |
| 00:47 | < Julius> | How do I solve this? |
| 00:47 | < Julius> | They use different subnets. |
| 00:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Turn off the wired connection? |
| 00:48 | < Julius> | That's how I'm getting RDP to it. |
| 00:48 | < Julius> | This box here seems to do just fine with multiple connections. |
| 00:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | There's probably a way to set routing priority in windows but I have no idea how |
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| 01:08 | < Julius> | This is way strange. |
| 01:08 | < Julius> | My random ministrations seem to have prevented me from pinging the remote machine from this one. |
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| 01:08 | < Julius> | But not the other way around. |
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| 01:19 | < Julius> | Ah, OK. Fixed it. The firewall was overprotective. |
| 01:37 | < Julius> | It seems to me like this RDP thing isn't too good. Trying to run games crashes them. |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...yeah, RDP does not, IME, play well with hardware accelerated anything |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | And the games will be very sad when they ask for things like GPU/display surface properties |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, even if they do run, performance will be complete ass |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Steam Home Streaming is a much better option |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although if I'd known you wanted this for gaming I would have recommended the KVM switch over networking :P |
| 01:49 | < Julius> | Welp. At least I got a home network. |
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| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | Also, for everything that *isn't* gaming, RDP is implausibly good. |
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| 03:23 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, rdp is kind of amazing. |
| 03:23 | <~Vornicus> | 8 years ago I used it from across the country and it worked perfectly. |
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| 03:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | My experience with RDP has been that NX gives vastly better performance for everything that isn't heavily bitmapped, and also has a reliably working seamless mode |
| 03:56 | <&McMartin> | Isn't NX just X11-over-remote? |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | (my RDP was "running an IDE and the resulting application full-speed over a 1.5Mb connection" which I'm not really able to scale |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | Ah, it's X11-over-remote without the terrible sucking that is remote X |
| 03:58 | <&McMartin> | But it's close enough to X11 that "working seamless mode" is cheating because X will invariably win any seamless-mode competition. |
| 03:58 | <&McMartin> | Since that's kind of what X *is* |
| 04:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | NX is remote X + a custom high efficiency protocol to make it not suck even over dialup + screen-style detachment from all your X programs (and retachment from other OSes/clients) |
| 04:03 | <&McMartin> | Remote X is of course a different problem from RDP |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | Hnmm. |
| 04:06 | <&McMartin> | Where does Wayland live on the "the UI runs on the machine the human is at, the rest of the program runs on the machine you're connected to" department? |
| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | I have no clue |
| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | But they can have my ssh -X when they pry it from my cold dead fingers |
| 04:09 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Between systemd and now Wayland there seems to be a push towards replacing old and slightly clunky things that nonetheless work with huge monolithic "integrated" systems that do a dozen things and suck at all of them. |
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| 04:16 | <&McMartin> | Wayland, AIUI, exists because compiz and mutter don't "work" by any remotely reasonable definition. |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | Descriptions of Wayland all make it sound like X is in fact the huge clunky monolithic thing |
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| 10:02 | | * TheWatcher readsup, ohgods at wayland |
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| 11:03 | <@Azash> | http://jvns.ca/blog/2014/05/12/computers-are-fast/ |
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| 11:37 | <@Azash> | http://i.imgur.com/INBvStO.png |
| 11:39 | < luke> | Azash: Some would say it's easier than Web Development with php. |
| 11:44 | <@TheWatcher> | More consistent and logical, anyway~ |
| 12:03 | <&McMartin> | That's just busting out an executable that speaks CGI, right? |
| 12:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 12:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Unless you want to write an apache module in assembler |
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| 13:54 | <&McMartin> | http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/48919199787/initial-git-training |
| 13:56 | < luke> | Random triva: that's not actually David Bowie doing the ball tricks: someone would crouch beneath him and stick their hands through. |
| 13:57 | <&McMartin> | Heh. Nice. |
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| 15:37 | | * TheWatcher eyes this |
| 15:37 | <@TheWatcher> | int debug_count, show_debug = 0; |
| 15:38 | <@TheWatcher> | #define SHOW() (debug_count == show_debug) |
| 15:38 | <@TheWatcher> | except that later in the code debug_count has huge chunks where it is still not initialised |
| 15:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Now, wait |
| 15:39 | <@TheWatcher> | it isn't initialised anywhere |
| 15:39 | <&McMartin> | That's buggy anyhow |
| 15:41 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile, a postcard from the Madness Place |
| 15:41 | <&McMartin> | https://github.com/michaelcmartin/Ophis/commit/60f03a34afa4518e28a1ba3453fb95740 acd0148 |
| 15:43 | <&McMartin> | (My first GitHub commit that makes use of dangerous forbidden techniques gleaned from my latest acquisition) |
| 15:43 | <&McMartin> | This program teardown code swaps out the BIOS temporarily as part of its teardown. -_- |
| 15:43 | <&McMartin> | But it's OK because it copies out the NMI handlers first and makes sure that any NMIs that come in are ignored! |
| 15:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Ignoring NMIs. |
| 15:47 | <@TheWatcher> | That's, um. |
| 15:47 | <&McMartin> | A simple matter of revectoring them to an RTI statement! |
| 15:48 | <&McMartin> | (NMIs only have three triggers, but one of them is "user presses a key physically wired to the NMI pin" so we can't rely on the fact that we are a single-tasking system and know that we aren't mid-RS-232-write) |
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| 17:17 | | * gnolam rides his refactor tractor like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHl24QynOM#t=1m13s |
| 17:18 | <@Tamber> | Not having sunlight for that length of time does /strange/ things to people over there. |
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| 20:00 | < Julius> | Hmm. The pathfinding I'm making doesn't qualify as intelligent yet. |
| 20:01 | < Julius> | But I think I've managed to improve it to the point where it's artificially stupid. |
| 20:02 | < Julius> | Somehow, emergent behaviour has this spacecraft go in orbit around the star, when I told it to dive into it. |
| 20:13 | <@TheWatcher> | You have made an AI with a sense of self-preservation, well done! |
| 20:21 | <@froztbyte> | Well on your way up the Turing ladder |
| 20:21 | < Julius> | I think I did it by accidentally replicating circular motion mechanics. |
| 20:22 | < Julius> | The thrust is always towards the target, but momentum carries it past it, while always trying to adjust towards the target, creating circular motion. |
| 20:23 | <@Tamber> | Accidental self-preservation? |
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| 20:24 | <@ErikMesoy> | So, thrust navigation should be a combination of (towards target) and (counter whatever component of motion is not towards target) ? |
| 20:26 | < Julius> | I'm currently thinking of making it STAY A WHILE AND LISTEN. |
| 20:26 | < Julius> | That is, if travel time exceeds projections, it should stop and try again. |
| 20:34 | <~Vornicus> | ErikMesoy: until you have yourself at a speed you can counteract as you get close. |
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| 22:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy|sleep, Julius: cheap and easy way to do this is to treat it as vectors rather than angles. Calculate current vector, calculate desired vector, calculate difference between them, execute burn |
| 22:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Assuming you are talking flatspace and not orbital mechanics~ |
| 22:30 | < Julius> | Flatspace. I'm currently adding the current vector with the desired vector. |
| 22:31 | < Julius> | Optionally trimming to maximum speed allowed. |
| 22:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, if you just calculate vector from current location to target and burn towards it you will end up orbiting things really frequently |
| 22:32 | | * McMartin notes that in threespace you have to use quaternions to get this to work right |
| 22:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | And indeed part of the reason my Spacewar implementation uses proximity fuses on the nukes is that when I wrote it I didn't know how to solve this problem, but they would usually at least get within the blast radius~ |
| 22:33 | < Julius> | Ingenious! |
| 22:34 | < Julius> | How do I calculate the difference between vectors? Plain subtraction instead of addition? |
| 22:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Speaking of Orbital Mechanics. What's the most efficient transfer if you have infinite deltaV? |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | JEBEDIAH KERMAN, THRILLMASTER |
| 22:35 | <@Tarinaky> | (and your thrust is rocket-like) |
| 22:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Julius: yes. |
| 22:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: time-efficient, you mean? |
| 22:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Yes. |
| 22:39 | <@Tarinaky> | I know it's normally 2 burns, but I'd imagine if fuel-hacks are involved then intuition says it'd be more efficient to burn for the duration, just in different directions. |
| 22:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | I believe it is, but I don't know what kind of actual burn profile you'd use. |
| 22:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Possibly just burn prograde until you're halfway there (at which point you are going stupid fast and your trajectory is an escape from the solar system) and then mostly retrograde until you match rbits? |
| 22:45 | < Julius> | ToxicFrog: Amazing. Your suggestion also automatically engages brakes. |
| 22:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Would it be prograde and not just towards the point of collision? |
| 22:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Or would these two vectors be the same? |
| 22:47 | < Julius> | Well, sometimes, it does. |
| 23:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: my intuitive understanding of orbital mechanics says that you want prograde instead, or possibly tangent to the target orbit, but I haven't actually done the math. |
| 23:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | If testing this I'd just fire up KSP with cheats activated and test it experimentally~ |
| 23:04 | < Julius> | Hmm. Aurora 6.4 released and the forum is down. |
| 23:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aurora? |
| 23:05 | < Julius> | Aurora 4x AKA Spreadsheet Hell AKA Dwarf Fortress In Space. |
| 23:06 | <@Tamber> | Spreadsheet hell? EVE? |
| 23:06 | | * Tamber flees sleepwards. x.X |
| 23:06 | < Julius> | I don't think EVE actually looks like an Excel spreadsheet. |
| 23:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | It totally does if you're some scrub manufacturer/miner rather than the correct way to play EVE, i.e. space pirate and/or mafia enforcer |
| 23:12 | < Julius> | ToxicFrog: http://strollinggamely.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ruinedalienruins1.png |
| 23:13 | < Julius> | http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x184/sublightrun/Aurora%20LetsPlay/Thunder.pn g |
| 23:14 | < Julius> | http://img.ie/images/b430c.jpg |
| 23:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oxygen (atm) max 0.3? Oxygen toxicity doesn't set in until like 1.4atm |
| 23:15 | < Julius> | Really? |
| 23:16 | < Julius> | If you can provide a citation, I'll report a bug when the forum comes back up. |
| 23:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Any SCUBA diving training materials, basically |
| 23:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although wiki says 1.6pp oxygen. |
| 23:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | *1.6atm pp |
| 23:18 | < Julius> | The way it actually works, AFAIK, is that that's a 30%, rather than 0.3atm at face value. 0.2 pure oxygen will be flagged as unbreathable. |
| 23:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh |
| 23:20 | < Julius> | I think the minimal atmosphere you can get away with is 0.1 O2 + 0.2 inert gas. |
| 23:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, real world numbers are partial pressure, so 1.6atm pp oxygen is 1.6atm of 100% O2, or, say, 3.2atm of 25% |
| 23:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 23:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | 6.4atm of 25% |
| 23:22 | < Julius> | Can humans breathe pure oxygen at low pressures? |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | I bet the space program looking into that |
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| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | the original plan was pure oxygen actually |
| 23:42 | <~Vornicus> | Then apollo 1 happened |
| 23:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Julius, McMartin: yes and indeed they already do; the suits used for EVAs on the ISS are 0.3 atm 100% xy |
| 23:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | *oxy |
| 23:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | (at 1atm it would be wasteful and also impossible to bend the limbs) |
| 23:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | You actually have to prebreathe a low-nitrogen gas mix for some time before EVA to avoid decompression sickness. |
| 23:45 | <@Tarinaky> | My understanding is it poses a significant fire-risk; so it isn't used in capsules. |
| 23:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | It does, although to be fair there was a great deal wrong with Apollo 1 and the pure oxygen atmosphere was only one of those things. |
| 23:47 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not familiar with Apollo 1 |
| 23:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | It was meant to be a manned LEO test. |
| 23:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | During a dry run it burst into flames and all three crewmembers burned to death. |
| 23:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Did it then sink into a swamp? |
| 23:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Quoth wiki: "Although the ignition source could not be conclusively identified, the astronauts' deaths were attributed to a wide range of lethal design and construction flaws in the early Apollo Command Module." |
| 23:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Something caught fire, spread quickly to the large amounts of flammable material in the cockpit in the pure-oxygen atmosphere, and the design of the hatch made it impossible to open if the interior pressure exceeded the exterior, which was of course the case with everything burning. |
| 23:52 | <@Tarinaky> | Could be worse I suppose. IIRC the Soviets experimented briefly with N-Stroff as a rocket propellant. |
| 23:54 | <@Tarinaky> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride#Rocket_propellant |
| 23:54 | <@Tarinaky> | "It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers..." |
| 23:57 | <&McMartin> | You have a bad problem and you will not go to space today, and maybe not ever. |
| 23:57 | <@Tarinaky> | I much prefer the account of the ancient chinese astronaut from that episode of Mythbusters. |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | Don't forget the ancient Turkic Rocketman! |
| 23:58 | <@Tarinaky> | "There was a great deal of smoke and he 'ascended to the heavens'." |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | Less ancient, that one, though. |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | He sure did! |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | The Turkic one jumped out and parachuted down afterwards~ |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of not going to space today, I got KSP in the recent sales and have yet to fire it up |
| --- Log closed Thu May 15 00:00:05 2014 |