| --- Log opened Wed May 07 00:00:58 2014 |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 07 06:38:38 2014 |
| --- Log opened Wed May 07 07:07:14 2014 |
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| 09:31 | <~Vornicus> | jesus god this is a long method. |
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| 09:55 | <@Azash> | http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/10357656975929586153 |
| 09:56 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
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| 11:04 | <@Azash> | http://static.adzerk.net/Advertisers/fdec4733b4814d9e958b7f86c25020b5.jpg |
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| 11:27 | < simon_> | in which contexts within abstract algebra / category theory is the |><| operator (in lack of a good unicode symbol) used? in relational algebra it's some kind of join operator, but I wonder if this symbol is used in other contexts. |
| 11:28 | <~Vornicus> | \bowtie? |
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| 11:30 | <~Vornicus> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_join#Natural_join |
| 11:30 | <~Vornicus> | I've never seen it before actually |
| 11:31 | <~Vornicus> | wikipedia mentions only that usage |
| 11:32 | <~Vornicus> | Mathworld doesn't have a page about the symbol, nor about relational algebra |
| 11:33 | <@gnolam> | To certify our software as green and sustainable, my SQL only uses natural joins. |
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| 15:38 | <@gnolam> | Oh thank Eris for bilingual versions of documents. |
| 15:51 | < ErikMesoy> | Is there a guideline for whether to linearize a tree depth-first or breadth-first when writing it as code? |
| 15:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...depends on the tree? |
| 15:55 | < ErikMesoy> | Sentence diagramming. |
| 15:57 | <@gnolam> | If I hadn't had access to the original, I wouldn't have been able to decipher half a dozen of these feature requests. |
| 15:58 | < ErikMesoy> | gnolam: Aaaaargh. You got poorly translated feature requests? |
| 15:58 | < ErikMesoy> | The sort of thing that confuses "oversight" with "overlook"? |
| 15:58 | <@gnolam> | That sort of thing, yes. |
| 15:59 | <@gnolam> | Except with several of them just making me go "... what?". |
| 16:02 | | * Azash has spent today taking a break from webdev to make.. an Excel script |
| 16:02 | < luke> | Woaahhhh |
| 16:05 | | * Azash eyes customer that wants a .xls file with a VB macro |
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| 18:37 | | * ErikMesoy blaaaaarghs, has a parser recognizing 15 out of 16 test sentences and collapsing on the last one. |
| 18:41 | < ErikMesoy> | Somewhere I have a subject-verb mismatch. I have determined that is is wrongly accepting "the actresses who like him sings" and wrongly rejecting "the actresses who like him sing" |
| 18:42 | < ErikMesoy> | Error is probably in the nightmare that is the phrasal-subject-identifier for when an entire identifying phrase like "the actress who likes him", with its own sub-object and sub-subject, is the subject of a sentence |
| 18:42 | < ErikMesoy> | In summary: HOW DO I PARSED ENGLISH? |
| 18:42 | <@Tamber> | "Badly." |
| 18:48 | < ErikMesoy> | Argh. I'm going to have to make two phrasal-subject-identifiers, I think. |
| 18:50 | < ErikMesoy> | Or not. If I use a single one, it burns on "(phrase) sing/sings", but if I use two, I risk getting wrong parsing or fake details on "I like (phrase)". |
| 18:57 | < ErikMesoy> | Compromise: I'll make three. :V Two for use in the first case and one for use in the second case. This is terrible. |
| 18:57 | < ErikMesoy> | I could use the last as a virtual wrapper around the two others, but then the parse trees would all get an extra layer with that wrapper. |
| 18:58 | < ErikMesoy> | In what other fields than programming do you wonder whether to get 1 generalized tool or 2 specialized tools, and compromise on getting all 3? :p |
| 18:58 | <@Tamber> | Mechanics. When the Snap-Off man arrives, just after you get your paycheck# |
| 18:58 | <@Tamber> | ~* |
| 19:00 | < ErikMesoy> | I must admit to being unfamiliar with the Snap-Off man. |
| 19:02 | <@Tamber> | (Proper name: Snap-On) |
| 19:03 | <@Tamber> | And they've got everything you might need, and plenty of things you didn't know you needed until you saw it and heard you could get it on credit~ |
| 19:04 | < ErikMesoy> | Buying things on credit sounds like something I should avoid. |
| 19:05 | <@Tamber> | Some people go to the grave, owing more on their tool collection than they ever did for their house. :/ |
| 19:05 | <@Tamber> | I have multiple sizes of hammers, so I'm okay. |
| 19:20 | <@celticminstrel> | I think your issue is that "like" is both a verb and a preposition. |
| 19:23 | < ErikMesoy> | celticminstrel: it's always a verb here. |
| 19:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Is it? |
| 19:23 | < ErikMesoy> | Yes. |
| 19:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Then what is the issue? |
| 19:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Or do you just mean it's a verb in these particular sentences? |
| 19:24 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not a verb in "the actress who like him sings". |
| 19:25 | < ErikMesoy> | celticminstrel: that sentence is marked incorrect and I am supposed to reject it. |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Why? |
| 19:25 | < ErikMesoy> | Because it's abusing "like" as a verb. |
| 19:25 | < ErikMesoy> | Or abusing something. Subject-verb mismatch, anyway. |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | No, it's valid. |
| 19:25 | < ErikMesoy> | It would be valid if you had commas around "like him". |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Might make more sense if you add the commas though: "The actress who, like him, sings". |
| 19:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Fair enough, I guess. |
| 19:26 | < ErikMesoy> | Word Of God is that "the actress who like him sings" is supposed to be rejected by the parser I'm writing. |
| 19:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Did it actually give that specific example? |
| 19:26 | < ErikMesoy> | Yes. |
| 19:27 | < ErikMesoy> | And to answer your other question: the issue seems to be top-down identification of whether an entire phrasal subject is singular or plural, then conjugating its associated verb to match. |
| 19:28 | <@celticminstrel> | So basically it's getting confused and agreeing with "him" instead of "actresses". |
| 19:30 | < ErikMesoy> | That might be it... |
| 19:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Though "him" cannot be a subject... |
| 19:38 | < ErikMesoy> | All right, fixed it by extending several matching classes, but now I think I've got recursion. |
| 19:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Is this bad? |
| 19:38 | < ErikMesoy> | Which is arguably correct in that English sentences can recurse indefinitely, but 1) nobody actually talks that way and 2) it might confuse the parser. |
| 19:39 | < ErikMesoy> | "The actress whom (the actress whom (the actress whom he likes) likes) likes" <-- This sort of thing. |
| 19:39 | <@celticminstrel> | I dunno, that doesn't strike me as a valid sentence. |
| 19:40 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm fairly sure it is. |
| 19:40 | < ErikMesoy> | Switch any parenthesised section for a name to make it clearer. |
| 19:41 | <@Azash> | I think stuff like the likes likes likes is more colloquial |
| 19:41 | < ErikMesoy> | "The actress whom (Mary) likes" is definitely valid, and (the actress whom he likes) can substitute for (Mary). |
| 19:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: it's not a valid sentence on its own, but it's a valid sentence prefix. |
| 19:42 | < ErikMesoy> | Yeah, just append a "sings" at the end |
| 19:43 | | * ErikMesoy finds that his phrases have both self-recursion as described above, and mutual recursion where they invoke other phrases. |
| 19:43 | < ErikMesoy> | On the other hand, the parser correctly classifies all the test sentences now! |
| 19:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Still doesn't sound valid to me. |
| 19:46 | < ErikMesoy> | (subject) sings -> (the person whom (subject) likes) sings -> repeat ad nauseam |
| 19:47 | <@celticminstrel> | I get your logic, but it doesn't work for me. |
| 19:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Things that exist only in my head: Gumby Jeremy Kyle. HELLO! I'D LIKE A DNA TEST PLEASE! |
| 20:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: nonetheless, it is correct. |
| 20:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although anyone who actually said or wrote that would get chastised and rightly so for creating a convoluted and difficult to parse sentence. |
| 20:11 | < ErikMesoy> | At least it's merely difficult, not actively misleading like "The girl told the story cried" where you have to backtrack once you realize the last verb doesn't fit where you expected a "to". |
| 20:11 | <@Azash> | Drop both "the" and you have perfectly valid newspaper English |
| 20:11 | <@Azash> | ( ââ¿â) |
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| 20:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Which kinda undermines your assertion that it's correct. |
| 20:26 | <@celticminstrel> | I can't parse ErikMesoy's example. |
| 20:28 | < ErikMesoy> | The girl [who was] told the story[, she] cried |
| 20:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Ohhh. |
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| 23:32 | <@macdjord> | ErikMesoy|sleep: "the actresses who like him sing" I cannot parse this as a valid sentence. |
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| 23:34 | < ScootRemote> | So, anyone work with office 365 a lot? |
| 23:37 | <@RchrdB> | macdjord, (the actresses, who like him) sing |
| 23:37 | <@RchrdB> | macdjord, (the actresses) who, like him, sing |
| 23:38 | <@RchrdB> | I think the latter is meant. The former fits, too. |
| 23:38 | <@macdjord> | RchrdB: That still doesn't parse for me. If it were 'sings' it would. |
| 23:38 | <@macdjord> | Oh, wait. |
| 23:38 | <@macdjord> | Ne'er mind. |
| 23:39 | <@RchrdB> | the first one identifies that the subset of actresses who like him, in the present tense, perform singing |
| 23:39 | <@RchrdB> | the second identifies that the actresses, in the present tense, sing as he sings. |
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| --- Log closed Thu May 08 00:00:14 2014 |