| --- Log opened Fri Apr 04 00:00:31 2014 |
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| 01:30 | < Xon> | http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2014/04/02/announcing-net-native-preview. aspx |
| 01:30 | < Xon> | hmmm |
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| 02:37 | <@Reiv> | Azash: I point out the idea, in principle, is still not actually a bad one :p |
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| 04:30 | <@froztbyte> | we had a couple of EE folks here, right? |
| 04:30 | <@froztbyte> | I suspect http://siliconexposed.blogspot.com/2014/03/getting-my-feet-wet-with-invasive.htm l might have a lot of appreciation |
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| 04:48 | | * Alek drools. |
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| 12:29 | <&McMartin> | Holy crap, I've reverse-engineered the C64 software floating point format. http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/630 |
| 12:30 | <@froztbyte> | :D |
| 12:31 | <&McMartin> | I think I now know enough about the internals that I could write a formula translator |
| 12:32 | <@froztbyte> | is that straight-up lisp? |
| 12:32 | <@froztbyte> | doesn't look very clojure-y |
| 12:32 | <@froztbyte> | but I've only done like 30min of that |
| 12:32 | <&McMartin> | It's Scheme, yeah |
| 12:34 | <&McMartin> | I'm not using anything in there that isn't in r5rs, but I tend to use Gambit for Scheme programming because it has some nice extensions and a superb compiler and FFI |
| 12:34 | <&McMartin> | Sadly, the Debian packages are absurdly out of date. |
| 12:34 | <&McMartin> | Fedora's relatively up-to-date, though |
| 12:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Debian out of date? Say it ain't so!~ |
| 12:35 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: It's because they can't make the autotools work well enough to build shippable packages for the past six or so minor revisions -_- |
| 12:35 | <&McMartin> | (A co-worker and I actually did some pushing on this but we couldn't do it either, just get works-for-me builds) |
| 12:35 | | * TheWatcher shudders at the mention of That Abomination |
| 12:35 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, pretty much |
| 12:35 | <&McMartin> | I'd give Debian more of a pass here except that Fedora has managed it =P |
| 12:36 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: I literally can't comment on scheme, or any lisp |
| 12:36 | <@froztbyte> | I can read it, and make sense, but that's about it |
| 12:37 | <&McMartin> | Scheme is what gave us call-with-cthulhu-invocation, which you can also use to make loops without explicitly defining recursive functions |
| 12:37 | <&McMartin> | But the syntax for that is super-close to Clojure's loop-recur, which is super-clean |
| 12:38 | <&McMartin> | So I also now have a complete detokenizer for .prg files saved by C64 BASIC |
| 12:38 | <&McMartin> | I could probably compile all the math stuff now if I wanted to |
| 12:40 | <&McMartin> | I'd need to write a garbage collector to compile the full language. |
| 12:40 | <&McMartin> | ... that isn't that hard |
| 12:40 | <&McMartin> | I am clearly going mad |
| 12:40 | <@froztbyte> | prg? |
| 12:40 | <@froztbyte> | nah, it's just friday mornin |
| 12:40 | <@froztbyte> | g |
| 12:40 | <&McMartin> | Program files |
| 12:40 | <&McMartin> | When you save a BASIC program it's saved out in a tokenized half-binary form |
| 12:40 | <@froztbyte> | (spot the person who never dealt with basic, or a c64 in any form) |
| 12:40 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: ....wat |
| 12:40 | <@froztbyte> | okay explain that one |
| 12:41 | <@froztbyte> | something like an early form of an AST? |
| 12:41 | <&McMartin> | Mmm |
| 12:41 | <&McMartin> | It doesn't get that far |
| 12:41 | <&McMartin> | It's more like a lexer that makes later interpretation easier |
| 12:41 | <&McMartin> | It finds the keywords and regex-replaces them with single bytes for easy detection later |
| 12:41 | <&McMartin> | And the lines are linked together with pointers |
| 12:41 | <&McMartin> | The saved file is a memory dump of that. |
| 12:42 | <&McMartin> | Early Commodore machines were sold under the title "Personal Electronic Transactor" |
| 12:42 | <&McMartin> | This has given the standard unix tool for translating to and from this format and ASCII the best tool name ever |
| 12:42 | <&McMartin> | "petcat" |
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| 12:42 | <&McMartin> | My lexer isn't as good as petcat because it doesn't do substitutions to let you write out the various non-ASCII control codes that PETSCII had |
| 12:43 | <&McMartin> | But it's better than petcat because it can distinguish keywords, operators, variables, numbers, and strings; it's a full lexer |
| 12:43 | <&McMartin> | Which means I *could* turn that into A Proper AST. |
| 12:43 | <@froztbyte> | ah, so basically, cheapo ASN.1? |
| 12:43 | <&McMartin> | Unfamiliar with ASN.1 |
| 12:43 | <@froztbyte> | EBNF wire coding for w/e you feel like |
| 12:43 | <&McMartin> | (AST technology did exist at this point; Pascal and Forth were the compiled langauges of choice for these machines) |
| 12:44 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 12:44 | <&McMartin> | Sure |
| 12:44 | <@froztbyte> | (my brain is a terrible place) |
| 12:44 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, this is also fantastic for any retro projects I have because I finally have access to the ROM's multiplier and divider |
| 12:44 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 12:44 | <@froztbyte> | oh! |
| 12:44 | <&McMartin> | Because the 6502 doesn't have hardware multipliers -_- |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | did you see the link I pasted around 2am UTC? |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | maybe like 3am |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | I expect you might gain enjoyment from reading it. |
| 12:45 | <&McMartin> | The Silicon Exposed one? |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | ye |
| 12:46 | <&McMartin> | That is mostly beyond my pay grade, I fear |
| 12:47 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 12:47 | <@froztbyte> | I could mostly follow it, short of glossing over the traces |
| 12:49 | <@TheWatcher> | .... scary thing is, I actually undersand that |
| 12:49 | <@froztbyte> | :D |
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| 21:01 | <@gnolam> | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1693 |
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| 22:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | python question: I am doing 'if x in foo' where foo is an instance of a custom class wrapping an ID3Tag. |
| 22:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | 'if x in id3' works. |
| 22:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | I want it to work for the custom class. |
| 22:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | As it is I get an 'ID3Wrapper is not iterable' exception. |
| 22:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | If I make it iterable by implementing __iter__ and next (and just forwarding to the wrapped object), I still get that error. |
| 22:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | This is, of course, impossible to google for. |
| 22:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | It also implies that 'in' is implemented by iterating over all the contents of a collection, which cannot possibly be universally true because that would be horrifying. |
| 22:45 | <@gnolam> | ToxicFrog: "in" uses __contains__(self, item) |
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| 22:47 | <@gnolam> | And for lists and the like, that's a straight linear search. But not for the things you're normally expected to use "in" on, like sets. |
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| 22:48 | <@gnolam> | TL;DR: implement __contains__ for your class. |
| 22:49 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm pretty sure the python docs explain this reasonably well... |
| 22:51 | <@gnolam> | http://laughingsquid.com/the-expert-a-hilarious-sketch-about-the-pain-of-being-t he-only-engineer-in-a-business-meeting/ |
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| 23:37 | <@RchrdB> | ToxicFrog, the specific document that explains what all the builtin magic names like __iter__ and __contains__ are is https://docs.python.org/2/reference/datamodel.html for Python 2.x or https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html for Python 3.x |
| 23:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: probably, but 'in' is completely unsearchable and 'is not iterable' is all results from people trying to iterate over ints and stuff |
| 23:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I have no idea where |
| 23:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | gnolam: that worked, thanks. |
| 23:53 | <&McMartin> | RchrdB has the links |
| 23:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | So why is the error message 'is not iterable' if it's looking for __contains__? |
| 23:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe it looks for __iter__ if it fails to find __contains__? |
| 23:57 | <@RchrdB> | Correct. It tries __contains__ first and falls back to __iter__. |
| 23:58 | <@RchrdB> | celticminstrel, ^- you are correct, which is the best thing. |
| --- Log closed Sat Apr 05 00:00:47 2014 |