| --- Log opened Wed Apr 02 00:00:59 2014 |
| 00:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Grepping git diffs: 'git diff --color=always | egrep -A<n> -B<n> <pattern> | less -R' \o/ |
| 00:36 | <@celticminstrel> | The key point being colour. |
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| 02:47 | < [R]> | "Comments are bad practice. If someone changes the code, then the comments are wrong." |
| 02:48 | <&McMartin> | Violation of single-point-of-truth rule! |
| 02:49 | | macdjord|wurk is now known as macdjord |
| 03:03 | < Shiz> | OTOH, without comments someone might not be able to change the code at all |
| 03:03 | < Shiz> | :P |
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| 03:28 | <@celticminstrel> | I managed it!. |
| 03:28 | <@celticminstrel> | <_< |
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| 05:03 | < Harlow> | do any of you guys work for stock exchanges? |
| 05:09 | <~Vornicus> | I only know one person who works finance; he's a forex trader though |
| 05:12 | < Harlow> | i've just heard some bad things about programmers dealing in stock exchanges recently. Apparently there is a big fraud scandal happening on the international level. |
| 05:13 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:13 | < Harlow> | it has to do with people having access to buy orders before they are committed to the computers, and people are able to place an order before the other one goes though (only if their latency is lower) causing the price to be slightly inflated. |
| 05:14 | < Harlow> | multiplied by millions of transactions of course, it poses a problem. |
| 05:15 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: That's ultra-high-speed trading stuff, and it's not happening at the programming level |
| 05:15 | <~Vornicus> | There is a reason I am not, at all, a fan of finance |
| 05:15 | <&McMartin> | It's "Goldman Sachs et al are being given access to the data 200ms or so in advance" and it turns out you can do a lot in 200ms. |
| 05:16 | < Harlow> | McMartin: I was told that some is happening at the programming level, to make it easier for big investing firms to make more money. |
| 05:16 | <&McMartin> | I can't be positive, of course |
| 05:16 | <&McMartin> | But I suspect this is what they refer to: http://www.thewire.com/business/2014/03/fbi-to-investigate-wall-streets-latest-b lemish-high-frequency-trading/359938/ |
| 05:16 | <~Vornicus> | 200ms is, um... 3 cups of tea? |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | a /human/ can do a lot in 200ms. Imagine what a computer can pull off. |
| 05:18 | <&McMartin> | "Flash trading is a form of trading in which certain market participants are allowed to see incoming orders to buy or sell securities very slightly earlier than the general market participants, typically 30 milliseconds, in exchange for a fee" |
| 05:18 | <&McMartin> | AFAIC that is straight-up cheating |
| 05:19 | < Harlow> | McMartin: I have an instructor who quit his job at the Chicago stock exchange, because he thought he was doing "harm to humanity" working there. |
| 05:19 | < Harlow> | >.> i didn't even know what he meant by that till i heard about high freq trading today on NPR |
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| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | It does look like "high frequency trading" is the, um, most general superclass |
| 05:21 | < Harlow> | so Im assuming he was writing software that allowed people to get access to that information for that "fee" you mentioned. |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | The article I linked is about someone appearing to violate speed-of-light information transmission restrictions and thus maybe being bustable for insider trading |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | Flash trading is a specific kind of HFT |
| 05:22 | < Harlow> | yeah |
| 05:22 | < Harlow> | pretty messed up. |
| 05:22 | < Harlow> | you know what i don't get though, why are there not "coder unions"? |
| 05:23 | <@Alek> | Big Business and diploma farms. |
| 05:23 | < Harlow> | my instructor said that there are maybe 70 people that worked with him, and there would be "No way in hell" that place could run without several of those people. |
| 05:23 | <&McMartin> | I think that might be part of it, actually >_< |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | We're too young a discipline to have a working definition of "master" the way most skilled labor does |
| 05:24 | | * Alek nods. |
| 05:24 | <@Alek> | that too. |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | Also, the market for master software engineers has generally been pretty tight which menas it's cheaper to bribe the high end than to placate the middle... |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | ... mostly. |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | I'm watching the wage-fixing lawsuits here in Silicon Valley with some interest. |
| 05:25 | < Harlow> | Mcmartin, do you work in the silicon valley? |
| 05:25 | <@Alek> | sadly, it looks like business in general may be moving away from unions. period. |
| 05:25 | <@Alek> | somewhere around there, I think. |
| 05:25 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: Yes, I'm a software engineer in the San Mateo region |
| 05:26 | < Harlow> | what do you mean by "the market for master software engineers has generally been pretty tight which menas it's cheaper to bribe the high end than to placate the middle" |
| 05:27 | <&McMartin> | The legend goes that really good engineers are hard enough to come by that management is willing to invest a fair amount to keep them happy anyway, because otherwise someone will buy them off and they'll run off. |
| 05:27 | <@Alek> | it's easier to pay off than raise wages. |
| 05:27 | <@Alek> | specifically, easier to pay off a few than raise wages across the board. |
| 05:27 | <&McMartin> | Well, that *is* raising wages. One of the local perversities is that raises are comically rare in the Valley; you're basically expected to just get rehired somehwere else at a higher price. |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | Where this gets "entertaining" is that apparently a lot of the local megacorps had official agreements to not hire each other's guys |
| 05:28 | <@Alek> | oh jeez, that's worse than noncompetes. |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | This is being treated as a price-fixing-cartel level scandal, locally. |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | Alek: Oh, they'll take volunteers. |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | But they won't headhunt |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | At least, not each other. |
| 05:28 | <@Alek> | oh, well. that's something, at least. |
| 05:29 | <@Alek> | but still horrible. |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | So, there are two things going on here that I think also indicate "why no unions here" |
| 05:29 | < Harlow> | shit |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | (a) The kinds of attacks are more subtle, as noted |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | (b) The pay scales in question here are the sort that makes the rest of organized labor break out the absolute tiniest of violins. |
| 05:30 | <&McMartin> | If you've noticed that (b) is an exploitable divide-and-conquer strategy, welcome to America cerca 1982 or so~ |
| 05:30 | < Harlow> | but only at the bottom |
| 05:30 | <&McMartin> | Dropping both bitterness and sarcasm entirely, though, I'm *also* not convinced that coding is structured in a way that the traditional forms will make sense. |
| 05:31 | <&McMartin> | Compare a plumber's guild to the Screen Actors Guild, or the Writers Guild. |
| 05:31 | <&McMartin> | Where in the latter there's a very strange notion of "free agency" that kind of requires a gigantic organized focal point to make sure that credit and royalties work out the way they're supposed to given the chaos that is scriptwriting |
| 05:32 | <&McMartin> | Making sense of a lot of that kind of stuff is why I have a lot of respect for people good at social sciences >_> |
| 05:33 | <&McMartin> | That in my experience said people are actually trained in the humanities kind of reinforces different biases <_< |
| 05:34 | < Harlow> | i see. |
| 05:35 | <&McMartin> | Another possible complicating factor: "coder" covers an amazing range of stuff, it's kind of like referring to everyone with an office job as a "typist" |
| 05:35 | <@Alek> | in deed. |
| 05:36 | <&McMartin> | The IT/Administrative/"write the stuff that keeps us going" guys I could see unionizing on their own. The high-level architect sorts of guys are probably closer to lawyers than that, and of course sales engineers are, uh, salesmen |
| 05:37 | <&McMartin> | All fit differently into corporate culture, all have very different skillsets |
| 05:38 | < Harlow> | McMartin: i have trouble telling people what I'm majoring in all of the time because of this "CS" major mentality that everyone in CS is good at everything to do with computers. |
| 05:38 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 05:39 | <&McMartin> | I think everyone learns that lesson the hard way |
| 05:39 | <&McMartin> | My favorite half-serious answer is "applied philosophy" |
| 05:39 | < Harlow> | no way! i seriously told a friend that the best description i could come up with was "computer philosopher" |
| 05:40 | < Harlow> | its true, just problem solving. |
| 05:40 | <@Alek> | hey now, that does sound tempting. |
| 05:40 | <@Alek> | what do you need for that? |
| 05:41 | < Harlow> | well you need to be able to pick up a phone and speculate about "what is wrong with a computer". |
| 05:41 | < Harlow> | at least to be exactly what i defined. |
| 05:42 | <@Alek> | oh hahaha tech support, right. |
| 05:43 | <@Alek> | not exactly what I imagined. |
| 05:43 | < Harlow> | lol |
| 05:44 | < Harlow> | but coding is too, just looking for solutions in a sea of potential axioms. |
| 05:45 | <@Alek> | mmm, true. |
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| 06:04 | | * Alek twitches. |
| 06:04 | <@Alek> | I bought a video card couple months back. received a code for a free game with it, due to a promotion. however, the code is too long for the game in question. o_o |
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| 11:09 | <@Azash> | Alek: Try stripping all [^A-Za-z0-9] from it? |
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| 11:39 | <@Alek> | Azash: I figured it out. The instructions that came with the card neglected a few steps. Namely, registering the too-long code with GeForce to receive the right code. -_- |
| 11:50 | <@Azash> | Durr |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 03 00:00:15 2014 |