| --- Log opened Tue Feb 25 00:00:06 2014 |
| 01:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| --- Log closed Tue Feb 25 02:27:23 2014 |
| --- Log opened Tue Feb 25 02:27:27 2014 |
| 02:27 | | TheWatcher[zZzZ] [chris@Nightstar-ksqup0.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 03:45 | <&McMartin> | gret beeg GHC update |
| 03:45 | <~Vornicus> | glasgow haskell compiler? |
| 04:08 | <~Vornicus> | arg. Why is it that i can never seem to... revise programs in place? Why do I always end up basically rewriting the thing every time I make a design change? |
| 04:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 04:16 | <&McMartin> | Yes, Glasgow Haskell compiler |
| 04:20 | <@Reiv> | ... wait what did they do to Haskell |
| 04:35 | <@Azash> | GNU Haskell Collection |
| 04:43 | <@Alek> | ... both acronym to GHC. |
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| 04:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Garbage Hydra Collector! |
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| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: There was an update when I did my check for updates. |
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| 05:30 | <~Vornicus> | did they describe it as Gret Beeg? |
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| 09:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 12:47 | | * TheWatcher eyes Mr NONEX from yesterday |
| 12:48 | <@TheWatcher> | So it's gone from contacting the PG admissions people asking whether any courses cover NONEX because he's "interested in taking a course that covers them", to emailing research group heads because he's "interested in researching NONEXs" |
| 12:52 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-c0i1dq.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 12:53 | < [R]> | Yay... vertx doesn't explain how to compile the .java files anywhere, weeee |
| 12:54 | < [R]> | Oh, it's actually got something simple |
| 12:55 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: What is the point of them? |
| 12:55 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-c0i1dq.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:55 | <@TheWatcher> | There is no point |
| 12:55 | <@TheWatcher> | The guy's a crank |
| 12:56 | < [R]> | ... and I'm hitting java classpath issues again |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | So, normal java then~ |
| 12:56 | < [R]> | I've main.java and ClientIRC.java |
| 12:56 | < [R]> | How do I use ClientIRC.java in main.java? |
| 12:57 | < [R]> | Do I really need to setup a package for that? |
| 13:01 | < Erik> | No, but it's fragile and you might want to setup a package anyway. |
| 13:01 | < Erik> | import should work for local files (something with requiring to be in the same directory, which must also be in the system java path variabl) |
| 13:02 | < [R]> | I've got "import ClientIRC;" in main |
| 13:02 | < [R]> | Complains about a missing period, then a missing ; |
| 13:02 | < Erik> | import ClientIRC.java? |
| 13:02 | < Erik> | I dunno, it's been years since I did this |
| 13:02 | < Erik> | one year of java at university (they have since phased out java) |
| 13:05 | < Erik> | what *is* ClientIRC.java at this step? It might need to be just a class |
| 13:06 | < [R]> | Okay, so I don't have to package the whole thing, and I don't need to compile them (vertx automatically finds and compiles the .java files), but all my includes do have to be in a package. |
| 13:06 | < [R]> | (Main concern with creating a package was the possibility of needing to make a vert.x module... which is a bit more complicated) |
| 13:09 | < RichyB> | TheWatcher, I'd be really interested to see if you could talk him into at least uploading a PDF to Arxiv :) |
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| 15:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | "vert.x"? |
| 15:25 | | * TheWatcher flails at this code |
| 15:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Godsdamned thing, work! |
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| 15:34 | <@gnolam> | TheWatcher: does he actually have a description of them somewhere? |
| 15:34 | <@TheWatcher> | I have yet to find one. |
| 15:35 | <@gnolam> | Because I'm genuinely interested in seeing what kind of problem he thinks they solve. |
| 15:37 | <@TheWatcher> | All I have been able to find are https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8024772 and "Nonex's proposed ~2005 as a read-only mutex for formalisation." from his website |
| 16:05 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, vert.x is some java framework for writing web-ish things, iirc. |
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| 20:57 | <@Reiv> | TheWatcher: Sounds like this is "I have a pet theory on how to do a NONEX and want the world to learn how brilliant I am, someone let me at an official recognition type place" |
| 20:57 | <@Reiv> | (You just know that even if they /did/ have a NONEX course, he would spend the entire thing evangelising his own idea instead of actually listening) |
| 20:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: AFAICT there is not such thing as a nonex course because they don't exist except in his mind, and he is incapable of meaningfully explaining what they are. |
| 21:00 | <@TheWatcher> | There is indeed, no such thing |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | You only say this because you have been educated stupid by evil word god |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | Poisoning your mind against Nature's Harmonious Four-Corner NONEX. |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | (I believe the technical term you are looking for here is "crankery") |
| 21:02 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: Right, I did couch that with 'even if they did' |
| 21:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: right, but I mean...that still doesn't make sense, because nonexes are entirely his idea. If there was a nonex course he wouldn't be taking it, he'd be teaching it. |
| 21:05 | <@Reiv> | Then extend 'even if they did' further |
| 21:05 | <@Reiv> | 'even if they did exist, and even if they did teach a course in it, <xyz>' |
| 21:09 | <@Alek> | what IS a nonex? |
| 21:09 | <@Alek> | supposedly? |
| 21:09 | <~Vornicus> | a "read only mutex" |
| 21:09 | <~Vornicus> | Whatever the hell that means |
| 21:11 | <@Alek> | okay. now, could someone enlighten me as to what a mutex is? I've heard the term, but not the definition... |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | A lock. |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | Alt: A semaphore that caps at 1. |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | Alt: A channel with capacity 1. |
| 21:12 | < ErikMesoy> | Short for "Mutual exclusion". It's for preventing race conditions by limiting access to a single thing. |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | The most basic synchronization object |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | You lock the lock, and if someone else tries to lock the lock before you unlock the lock, they go to sleep until you unlock it. |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | A read-only mutex would from the words be a lock that you cannot change the status of. |
| 21:13 | < ErikMesoy> | It's fairly easy to see why you want a mutex for *writing* data, so things stay in order, and you don't have two processes writing to the same file at the same time resulting in word salad. |
| 21:13 | <@Alek> | ahso. |
| 21:14 | < ErikMesoy> | But a read-only mutex sounds either like the silly thing McMartin suggests, or a way of ensuring that only one program is reading from a file at a time, which is also silly and somewhat pointless. |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | You also want one for reading if reading is "non-atomic" - you don't want half the read to before some write and half the read to be after it. |
| 21:14 | <@Alek> | hah. for nonex, just single-thread single-process your machine. |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | "nonex" sounds like "nonexclusive" |
| 21:14 | <@Alek> | aka you don't need an OS. |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Maybe he means sharing =P |
| 21:14 | <@Alek> | oh, that could be. |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | IIRC POSIX and Win32 do both let you open a file in a way that means that other attempts to open the file for any purpose will fail. |
| 21:15 | <@Alek> | how about win past 32? |
| 21:15 | <@Alek> | or is that inclusive? |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | It's inclusive. "Win32" is basically the Win2k API as preserved in future releases. |
| 21:17 | <@Alek> | ok |
| 21:17 | <@Alek> | hrm. |
| 21:17 | <@Alek> | rumor is, Win9 may come this year. |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | As opposed to Win16, which is Win3.1 through WinMe. |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | IIRC |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Hrm. |
| 21:18 | <@Alek> | I kinda doubt it, since there aren't even beta builds leaking yet, and you'd think they would be by now. |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Not sure about 95-Me. |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Every Windows since Vista has been a minor update. |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Win 8.1 identifies internally as Windows 6.3 |
| 21:18 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-5fqf0m.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
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| 21:18 | <@Alek> | and yet, 7 and 8 both had beta builds leaking for a year prior. |
| 21:19 | <@Alek> | heya Dera, long time |
| 21:19 | | * Derakon blarghs at this camera. Makes no fuggin' sense |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | Alek: Hm. What about 8.1? |
| 21:19 | <&Derakon> | Hi Alek. You might notice alternate-me lurking. |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | If 9 is 8.2 it'd be easier to keep under wraps |
| 21:19 | <@Alek> | oh, so I see, Dera. |
| 21:19 | <@Alek> | McM: 8.2 is probably in the works, yes, but 9 is supposed to be a BIG version, not an update like 8.1 |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Aha. |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | I am skeptical |
| 21:20 | <&Derakon> | So we have this camera, intended for very high-throughput imaging with varying numbers of pixels (e.g. anywhere from 128x128 to 2560x2060). |
| 21:20 | <@Alek> | 8.2 is supposed to have yet more quality updates like 8.1 did - like the start button coming back. |
| 21:20 | <&Derakon> | Framerate goes up as image size goes down -- 512x512 can do 400FPS, but full field (2560x2060) can only do 100. |
| 21:20 | <&Derakon> | We can do 512x512 @ 400 FPS just fine. |
| 21:20 | <@Alek> | one rumor is, 8.2 will default back to desktop again. |
| 21:20 | <@Alek> | from a clean install. |
| 21:21 | <&Derakon> | But when we switch to full-field, while we can still transfer the data off of the camera fast enough, we can't get it from the camera computer to the master computer at faster than 10% max rate. |
| 21:21 | <&Derakon> | And it's not a network throughput or latency problem; the two computers are connected directly by a 10GBit cable. |
| 21:21 | | * Derakon befuddles. |
| 21:22 | | * Alek notes that metro DOES have its pluses - he bought a new machine for his mom's elderly client after hers broke down. all she needed was card games. and it was easier for her to get used to metro, after a little setup, than to get used to the differences between the vista desktop and the 8.1 desktop. |
| 21:23 | <@Alek> | it did help that it was a touchscreen AIO. |
| 21:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: AIUI, he does in fact call them "nonexes" from "nonexclusive" |
| 21:25 | | * Derakon pops an overview of the system up here: http://pastebin.com/u1k2H5h4 |
| 21:25 | <@gnolam> | I still think it sounds like some kind of novel fabric or plastic or something. |
| 21:25 | <&Derakon> | If any of you has a clue what could be going on, I would love to hear your ideas. |
| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | Alek: Metro kicks Aero's ass as a tablet interface |
| 21:26 | <@Alek> | agreed. |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | And if Metro were a full tiling WM I'd have already upgraded to 8.1 |
| 21:27 | <@Alek> | well, I use 8.1 just fine without resorting to metro - but I have it as a backup for in case I have a hankering for minesweeper. >_> |
| 21:27 | <@gnolam> | "Nonex®, our revolutionary new non-woven material..." |
| 21:27 | <@Alek> | Classic Shell is so good. |
| 21:27 | <@Alek> | Classic Start even. |
| 21:27 | <@Alek> | oh yeah, another rumor about 8.2 is bringing back the start menu, not just the start button. |
| 21:47 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ToxicFrog, @Alek, Ogredude, JustBob, @Namegduf, @himi, Xon, simon_, @iospace, mac, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 21:47 | | Netsplit over, joins: &ToxicFrog, @himi, mac, @froztbyte, @iospace, JustBob, ^Xires, Xon, @Alek, @Namegduf (+4 more) |
| 22:07 | < ErikMesoy> | Derp. |
| 22:08 | < ErikMesoy> | I kept wondering why my installation of the Natural Language Toolkit had failed. |
| 22:08 | < ErikMesoy> | Then I realized I was typing "import ntlk". |
| 22:15 | <&Derakon> | This is why you use long variable names. :p |
| 22:15 | <&Derakon> | At the very least, call it "natlang" instead. |
| 22:16 | <&jerith> | Derakon: It's not his library. |
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| 22:16 | <&Derakon> | Yes, sorry, that was the generic "you". |
| 22:16 | <&Derakon> | Didn't come across that way, I guess. |
| 22:16 | | * ErikMesoy imports nltk and faffs around with proto-parsers and lexers. |
| 22:20 | < ErikMesoy> | It's a little strange to realize that my uni assignment is starting to look a lot like real work. :p |
| 22:20 | | * Tamber hands Erik a leaking bottle-jack. |
| 22:20 | < ErikMesoy> | What. |
| 22:20 | | * Tamber then runs from all the people with real jobs in IT, muttering something about "real work" |
| 22:21 | < ErikMesoy> | Previously uni work has been a lot of "do this self-contained thing, write this micro-program with no reference texts" and now in this course it's "download this thing, use this library, write a program that does this, you should probably refer to this source and use this collection". |
| 22:21 | <@Tamber> | Yeah, that's a bit closer to real-world. |
| 22:23 | | * ErikMesoy googles, sees that bottle-jack is apparently a funny name for a carlifter. |
| 22:23 | <@Tamber> | Oh, not *just* cars. ...or, in the case of the ones at work, not *even* cars. |
| 22:23 | <@Tamber> | -.- |
| 22:24 | < ErikMesoy> | If this is a point about real work involving elbow grease and whatnot, I'll have you know I can do that too. Dad is like "Erik, go change the wheels on the car. Lifter's in the spare room. Summer tyres are on the left side of the garage." and leaves me to do it autonomously. |
| 22:25 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 22:25 | <@Tamber> | Yes, that's what I was jokingly implying. |
| 22:27 | <@Tamber> | Today was "Just swap the wheels from that trailer, to *that* trailer. Oh, and the ones from *that* trailer need to be painted before they go onto the other. Have fun." Cue horrible Fun with a pair of bottle jacks, one leaking, and physics. \o/ |
| 22:28 | <@Tamber> | Obviously there's a functional way to do this... |
| 22:34 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:38 | <@Tamber> | I kinda miss the flow-state coding. ...but then, that's usually book-ended with "What the hell was I *thinking* when I wrote this?!" |
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| --- Log closed Wed Feb 26 00:00:22 2014 |