| --- Log opened Wed Feb 26 00:00:22 2014 |
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| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC/wiki/ArnoldC |
| 00:18 | <&McMartin> | Overall I think lolcode is better |
| 00:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:22 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | .... |
| 00:22 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | yes |
| 00:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 02:02 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 02:22 | | * Derakon looks up. |
| 02:23 | <&Derakon> | I like the terminator indicator for branching. |
| 02:23 | <&Derakon> | YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR LOGIC |
| 02:34 | < [R]> | <ToxicFrog> "vert.x"? <-- an async networking library for the JVM, runs java, JS, groovy, ruby and python code. |
| 02:37 | < [R]> | <McMartin> As opposed to Win16, which is Win3.1 through WinMe. <-- 9x+ are Win32. |
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| 03:04 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: simon_, JustBob, @Namegduf, Ogredude, @Alek, @iospace, mac, ^Xires, @froztbyte, @Azash, (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 03:05 | | Netsplit over, joins: &ToxicFrog, mac, @froztbyte, @iospace, JustBob, ^Xires, @Alek, @Namegduf, Shiz, simon_ (+2 more) |
| 03:50 | < Shiz> | tfw no op |
| 03:57 | <~Vornicus> | nani |
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| 12:53 | <@TheWatcher> | ... what the fuck |
| 12:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Twitter have started requiring that you add a mobile phone number to your account to create apps |
| 12:54 | < Syka> | sounds about right |
| 13:15 | < Shiz> | lol |
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| 14:09 | <&jerith> | Someone else mentioned that the other day. |
| 14:09 | <&jerith> | I guess I'm not going to be testing my Twitter library very much anymore. |
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| 14:46 | <@celticminstrel> | Mentioned what? |
| 14:47 | < Shiz> | @TheWatcher â Twitter have started requiring that you add a mobile phone number to your account to create apps |
| 14:47 | <@celticminstrel> | Where "create apps" means... use the Twitter API? |
| 14:47 | <@TheWatcher> | Yep |
| 14:48 | <@TheWatcher> | My older apps are currently working okay, near as I can tell |
| 14:48 | < Syka> | jerith: you work at a company specialising in USSD applications |
| 14:48 | < Syka> | you can find a mobile phone :| |
| 14:49 | < Shiz> | fun fact: I was getting tired of how annoying twitter's app was |
| 14:49 | < Shiz> | err |
| 14:49 | < Shiz> | API |
| 14:49 | < Shiz> | so instead of doing workaround #23 I just decided to scrape their HTML |
| 14:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 14:49 | < Syka> | which is nice because ~SEMANTIC WEB~ or whateve? |
| 14:49 | < Shiz> | if semantic web existed, sure |
| 14:50 | < Shiz> | it's not nice, but nicer than their API |
| 14:50 | < Shiz> | that should tell you something |
| 14:50 | < Syka> | twitter dont want the api to exist though |
| 14:50 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, they're making that pretty abundantly clear |
| 14:50 | < Shiz> | https://github.com/moeIO/michiru/blob/master/michiru/modules/uribot.py#L88 |
| 14:50 | < Shiz> | good old beautifulsoup |
| 14:50 | < Shiz> | at least it's not regexpes |
| 14:51 | <@celticminstrel> | That's using DOM? |
| 14:51 | < Shiz> | yeah |
| 14:51 | < Shiz> | well, an html parser |
| 14:52 | < Shiz> | not really the dom api or anything |
| 14:52 | < Shiz> | my favourite part is .strong.string |
| 14:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh |
| 14:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Looks DOMish to me. |
| 14:53 | < Shiz> | beautifulsoup is a pretty good html/xml parser and traverser |
| 14:54 | < Shiz> | in the best-case scenario for xml-data you can just use attributes directly |
| 14:54 | < Shiz> | e.g. doc.books[0].title |
| 14:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Doesn't your YouTube regex miss shortened URLs at youtu.be? |
| 14:54 | < Shiz> | yeah it does |
| 14:57 | < Shiz> | michiru isn't the finest written code |
| 14:57 | < Shiz> | it's largely superseded by kochira now |
| 14:57 | < Shiz> | ( https://github.com/rfw/kochira ) |
| 14:58 | < Shiz> | which may be the most overengineered irc butt in existence |
| 15:00 | < Erik> | And now I feel compelled to ask if it can handle buttcoin transfers :V |
| 15:01 | < Shiz> | it can lookup the btc rate |
| 15:01 | < Shiz> | lol |
| 15:01 | < Shiz> | Shiz â Kobun: convert 1BTC |
| 15:01 | < Shiz> | @Kobun â Shiz: 1.0000 BTC (Bitcoin) = 407.2748 EUR (Euro) |
| 15:01 | < Shiz> | (it takes my preferred currency from the location I set using the profile module) |
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| 16:07 | <@Azash> | It also uses a pretty badass IRC lib IIRC |
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| 17:31 | <@Azash> | http://i.imgur.com/HpPZ1rz.gif |
| 17:33 | < ErikMesoy> | How come there hasn't been a Doge Plays Pokemon mashup yet? |
| 17:33 | < ErikMesoy> | The incompetence-yet-success of both sounds like a good match. |
| 17:42 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:53 | <@Azash> | I didn't realize doge implies incompetence |
| 18:54 | < ErikMesoy> | Doge cannot form sentences, use capital letters, or spell "dog" properly. It might not be so much incompetence as infantilization, but it's close. |
| 18:56 | <@Tamber> | Much hate. So anger. Very grouchy. Wow. ;) |
| 19:01 | < ErikMesoy> | What? |
| 19:02 | <@Alek> | what sith. |
| 19:15 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-c0i1dq.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: "Too long have night and day warred, their false dichotomy plaguing this land. No more. I come now to put them both down, to usher in a new era of balance and peace. For now is the time of... /Twilight/. *And the Dusk shall Reign Eternal.*"] |
| 19:16 | <@Azash> | Using broken English for humour really has no implication about how competent the subject is |
| 19:16 | <@Azash> | And equating language skills to intelligence is usually not a success story |
| 19:17 | <@gnolam> | It's not an equality, but there's a definite correlation. |
| 19:20 | <@Azash> | From my experience interacting with people I know in my native languages, shitty typing is not done because the person is stupid but just because it's convenient |
| 19:21 | <@Azash> | Even though it seems to be popular on the internet to attack people who don't pay attention to their typing, that doesn't really make it a valid argument, just discrediting |
| 19:23 | <@Alek> | he's got a point. |
| 19:31 | <@Tamber> | Yeah, but it's really easy! And countering their argument takes effort~ |
| 19:41 | <&McMartin> | doge, like lolcat, is an Internet standard baby talk |
| 19:42 | <&McMartin> | unlike lolcat, the range is much smaller, and the lack of it being an Italian merchant prince stings more. |
| 19:58 | <@Alek> | can you guys recommend a decent web host with domain and site builder? who's good? |
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| 21:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Today I had one of my cohorts thank me for providing insight during the pair programming lab last semester. |
| 21:30 | <@Tarinaky> | My gut reaction to this was that I was so horrible as to put him off forever. |
| 21:30 | <@Tarinaky> | An 'insight'. |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | This kind of reaction is why Perl's manual officially cites Hubris as a core virtue |
| 21:32 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh? |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | The three core virtues are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris |
| 21:32 | <@Tarinaky> | IDK. I found the affair 'insightful' in that I went from willing totry pair programming to never wanting to do it again unless someone pays me. |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | Or, if you're being boring, those translate to "automate as much as possible", "optimize for productivity", and "be reusable" |
| 21:33 | <@Tarinaky> | How does that apply to what I said? |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | Your immediate response to someone thanking you for helping them out was self-loathing |
| 21:34 | <@Tarinaky> | No, just paranoia. |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | You think he's plotting against you? |
| 21:35 | <@Tarinaky> | No, I just don't think self-loathing is the right word. |
| 21:35 | | * McMartin has had exactly one positive pair programming experience. |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Not counting team debugging |
| 21:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Pair debugging is excellent. |
| 21:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Pair programming is... a bit like being in the Monty Python "I'm here for an argument" skit. |
| 21:37 | <&jerith> | I've had a few successful group-programming sessions. |
| 21:38 | <@Tarinaky> | "Well, I think we should do <UML diagram>." "But that has obvious flaw <not in Use Case>/I disagree with the semantics but am not prepared to put forward an alternative idea." "Yes, and?" |
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| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | OK, so, my positive pair programming experience happened after design had been nailed down |
| 21:39 | <&jerith> | The key is to have the driver drive and the not-drivers focus on less immediate things but be available to assist and point out problems. |
| 21:40 | <&jerith> | Porting pypy's sqlite module from ctypes to cffi was an excellent example of this. |
| 21:40 | <&jerith> | Three of us working actively on it and another two mostly just watching but occasionally asking useful questions. |
| 21:41 | <@Tarinaky> | To quote someone I don't remember on Pair Programming: "Because we got into software development because we /love/ people and interacting with them." |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | Not gonna lie; if you can't interact well with people you cannot develop software of any significant size. |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | As soon as you're on a team of size two or larger you'd better be able to coordinate. |
| 21:42 | <&jerith> | The driver wrote the code, myself and the pypy expert discussed the thing we were going to do after the bit the driver was writing. |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | If you can't, stick to one-man projects. |
| 21:43 | <@Tarinaky> | McMartin: This, more or less, applies to everything though. I haven't figured out a way to get paid without interacting with humans. |
| 21:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Turns out those're the jobs that're easiest to automate. |
| 21:43 | <@Tarinaky> | :V |
| 21:44 | | * Tarinaky doesn't /mind/ people... in moderation. |
| 21:45 | < ErikMesoy> | McMartin: Clearly the solution is to pick a language where the threshold of "significant size" goes up. |
| 21:45 | < ErikMesoy> | Which language is best for letting one guy do huge projects? |
| 21:45 | <&jerith> | ErikMesoy: Java. Every project beyond "hello world" is huge.~ |
| 21:46 | < ErikMesoy> | jerith: Not in the sense of "bloated". :-p |
| 21:46 | <&jerith> | Anyway, pair programming fails epically when the non-driver nitpicks and points out tyops. |
| 21:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah, I noticed that too. |
| 21:47 | <@Tarinaky> | Particularly annoying as I hadn't written <language> in a while and kept forgetting semi-colas. |
| 21:48 | <&jerith> | Is that the second half of your caffeinated beverage?~ |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | It might be the first half! |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: It's a trap. As languages get more powerful, the threshold for "huge" grows too. |
| 21:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Not helpful anyway. |
| 21:49 | <@Tarinaky> | If the project is small enough to be done by one person there's no reason to pay me to do it. |
| 21:50 | <&jerith> | My preferred method of interaction and collaboration is frequent small pull requests. |
| 21:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Human contact is best when filtered through a computer. |
| 21:50 | <@Tarinaky> | :V |
| 21:50 | <@Tarinaky> | but I would suck, so hard, at retail -.- |
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| 22:17 | <~Vornicus> | semi-colas. |
| 22:17 | <~Vornicus> | My first decent-sized project was 1000 lines long. It was most of a programming language for dice bots. |
| 22:18 | <~Vornicus> | If I were working in a language without regex, the lexer would have been 1000 lines long. Instead it was about 20. |
| 22:18 | <@Tarinaky> | My first decent-sized project was something similar except I gave up after it hit 1,000 lines because I was a terrible programmer. |
| 22:19 | | * Tarinaky is embaressed thinking about some of the stuff she did -.- |
| 22:20 | <@Tarinaky> | (Also the language didn't have regex) |
| 22:35 | <~Vornicus> | If the code you wrote 2 years ago isn't embarassing you may be doing it wrong |
| 22:40 | <@Tarinaky> | Longer ago than that. |
| 22:40 | <@Tarinaky> | Just because it's normal to feel embaressed doesn't mean I'm not allowed to express it. |
| 22:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyway. Why on earth is this site using postcodes to verify I am in a region that can view the content. |
| 22:41 | <@Tarinaky> | All I did was delete the cookie, look up what an acceptable post-code would be and provide something that satisfies the regexp o.o |
| 22:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Might as well have just given me a box to click on. |
| 22:43 | <@Tarinaky> | (How do I know what an acceptable post-code is? Wikipedia~) |
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| 23:23 | <@Tamber> | Tarinaky, that sounds like a "We have to do *something*. So we've done just enough that we can say we've done something." |
| 23:23 | <@Tarinaky> | Tamber: A button would have been something. |
| 23:24 | <@Tamber> | Then manglement said no, it had to be a *check* of something. :p |
| 23:24 | | * Tarinaky giggles at Manglement. |
| 23:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Nice. |
| 23:27 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris sound more like the Three Principles. What are the Eight Virtues~? |
| 23:28 | | * Tarinaky isn't sure she agrees with Hubris... Since this implies people who're terrible. |
| 23:30 | <@Reiv> | Write-only, obscufication, terseness, creativity, edge-case, regex, and insanity |
| 23:31 | <@Tarinaky> | That's 7. With the 3 earlier that makes 10, not 8... |
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| 23:34 | <@Reiv> | Now, now. That's just a fencepost error. |
| 23:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: no, the idea is that the Eight Virtues stem from the Three Principles. |
| 23:37 | <@Tarinaky> | 7 makes 7, not 8. |
| 23:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Where do you get 7 from? |
| 23:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Reiv listed 7. |
| 23:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Source: Counting. |
| 23:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh, I missed that. |
| 23:42 | <@Reiv> | Reiver forgot how to count while making a joke, yes. :p |
| 23:42 | | * Tarinaky wasn't sure it was a joke. |
| --- Log closed Thu Feb 27 00:00:37 2014 |