| --- Log opened Sat Jan 11 00:00:04 2014 |
| --- Day changed Sat Jan 11 2014 |
| 00:00 | | Orth [Orthia@Nightstar-rkmjmu.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 00:01 | <@Alek> | heh |
| 00:02 | <@Alek> | well, NiN is metal, no? that tends to be shouty by default. |
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| 00:15 | <@AnnoDomini> | Hmm. For non-IO instructions, Java is just as fast as C++ nowadays, right? |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | I would not lay heavy odds on that |
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| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | But assuming the process is long-running, Java will probably be acceptably fast |
| 00:17 | <@AnnoDomini> | OK. |
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| 00:38 | | * AnnoDomi1i looks at Qt. |
| 00:38 | < AnnoDomi1i> | 13 Gigabytes... |
| 00:38 | <&McMartin> | Cripes, it just doesn't stop |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | I remember back when it was just one or two |
| 00:39 | < [R]> | McMartin: Pretty Hate Machine is an Album (or Halo) |
| 00:39 | < AnnoDomi1i> | I would like to install it and maybe learn to do something with it. But really? 13 GB is a bit much for me. Certainly too much for my monthly bandwidth quota. |
| 00:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | GUI programming using any library is a vale of tears. |
| 00:40 | | Orth [Orthia@Nightstar-rkmjmu.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 00:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | That said, I'm not sure where 13GB comes from. |
| 00:41 | <&McMartin> | AnnoDomi1i: I'm seeing 689 MB here |
| 00:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | qt5-default on Mint, which is the "basic" set of Qt 5.x development packages + supporting libraries, is ~60MB |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | The official downloads also include all the IDEs and extra stuff Qt uses, but the only platform I see where the download doesn't fit on a CD is iOS |
| 00:43 | | Orth [Orthia@Nightstar-rkmjmu.ihug.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 00:43 | < AnnoDomi1i> | http://i.imgur.com/D9mmv1l.png |
| 00:44 | | * McMartin is looking at http://qt-project.org/downloads#qt-lib |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | I think you're looking at what happens when you have 573,000 header files at 4KB each |
| 00:46 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Are those sizes the setup executable or the extracted size? |
| 00:46 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Because I think they're just the setup file. |
| 00:46 | <&McMartin> | You mentioned "your monthly bandwidth quota". |
| 00:46 | <&McMartin> | The MB count is what goes over the wire. |
| 00:47 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Right. |
| 00:47 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Not sure if the online installer would be as efficient, though. |
| 00:49 | < [R]> | I want to dick-punch the asshole who wrote this awesome backup script. |
| 00:49 | <@Alek> | Anno: I suppose you don't do betas, or online games (as they often require regular patching). |
| 00:49 | < [R]> | %d-%m-%Y is a moronic default for file/directory names. |
| 00:50 | <&McMartin> | ... that sorts by date when sorted lexicographically assuming %d and %m are correct |
| 00:50 | <@Alek> | it is. |
| 00:50 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Alek: I don't play MMOs, no. I tend to play unfinished, early-alpha games developed by lone obsessives. |
| 00:50 | <&McMartin> | Unless you mean literally a percent sign followed by a d. |
| 00:51 | < [R]> | No |
| 00:51 | <@Alek> | ok, indie games. those tend to be fairly small. |
| 00:51 | <@Alek> | usually. |
| 00:51 | < [R]> | %Y-%m-%d will /always/ correctly sort |
| 00:51 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Well, that and many old games. And Paradox games. |
| 00:54 | < AnnoDomi1i> | I'm not sure what to delete from my drives to free up 13 GB. It's a tall order. |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | Er, right, I can think |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | Yes, YMD is the way to go |
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| 00:59 | <@Reiver> | McMartin: Would a kernel exception be indicative of imminent hardware failure, or more likely fluke? |
| 01:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiver: it could be a hardware issue (most likely bad memory), but it could also be a badly written driver. |
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| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | Badly-written driver is the most common case there |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | If the hardware fails, that is "you get this number back instead of that one inside of the driver" |
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| 01:15 | < Xon> | Reiver, bad driver is common. but if it happens frequently or witha pattern it could be bad hardware. keep in mind bad memory is a /bitch/ to isolate |
| 01:16 | < Xon> | ToxicFrog, also; GUI programming /without/ using any libraries is probably worse |
| 01:16 | <&Derakon> | Xon: "isolate" how? Can't you just run memtest? |
| 01:17 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Which Qt do I want, out of the 32-bit Windows packages? |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | AnnoDomi1i: Do you already have a C++ compiler you want to work with? If not, get one of the ones that packs in MinGW and OpenGL. |
| 01:18 | < AnnoDomi1i> | Right-o. |
| 01:19 | < Xon> | Derakon, sure. just make sure you run for ~8 hours or till an error occurs with all the sticks; then trying to reseat all the memory, then repeat by removing one stick of memory at a time. |
| 01:19 | < Xon> | (well honestly a few hours may do it per run) |
| 01:19 | <&Derakon> | Xon: I usually left it to run overnight, yeah. |
| 01:19 | <&Derakon> | Didn't bother with trying to reseat, though. |
| 01:19 | < Xon> | I've had a case where the stick wasn't quite seated right but still 'worked' |
| 01:20 | < Xon> | or that particular ram stick didn't like that particular slot (chucked the stick because fuck that) |
| 01:21 | < AnnoDomi1i> | McMartin: Compared to say, swing, how easy is Qt to learn/use? |
| 01:21 | <@Reiver> | Anno is bona-fide deving in C++? |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | Sounds like |
| 01:21 | < [R]> | I picked up Qt, but not swing, despite trying them both. |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | But that's a slightly tricky question. |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | Qt is by far easier to learn and use |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | But Qt is in part easier because it significantly extends the C++ language to do so |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | Which makes things a little wonky sometimes for the learning curve |
| 01:22 | < Xon> | abuses macros? |
| 01:23 | < [R]> | Not really |
| 01:23 | < [R]> | It adds another preprocessor |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | There's an actual pre-compilation step to turn C++-with-Qt into C++. |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | Two, actually |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | The UI compiler (which turns the UI-builder XML into C++-with-Qt) and then the Meta-Object Compiler, which does what I said above |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | But if you're using Qt Creator that's all automated |
| 01:24 | < Xon> | ah |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | The Qt UI builder is actually very fine, and the layout model is far better than Swing's. |
| 01:25 | <@celticminstrel> | At some point I'll have to decide how to read .plist files on Windows... |
| 01:27 | <@celticminstrel> | This may or may not be equivalent to figuring out how to compile Obj-C on Windows. |
| 01:27 | <&McMartin> | Compiling Obj-C on Windows is pretty easy; MinGW has an Obj-C compiler. |
| 01:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Does it now? |
| 01:27 | <&McMartin> | The problem is that Windows Obj-C links the GNUStep libraries, not Foundation. |
| 01:27 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:28 | <@celticminstrel> | Does VS have Obj-C too? |
| 01:28 | < [R]> | Unlikely |
| 01:28 | <@celticminstrel> | That's what I thought. |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | I don't believe it does, but you could probably integrate it if needed because you could use NMAKE to call gcc-objc and make it a Makefile-based project |
| 01:28 | < [R]> | GCC has a bunch of languages, prolog, java and others. |
| 01:29 | <&McMartin> | Right. However, until quite recently, gcc-objc *was* the Apple Obj-C. |
| 01:30 | <@celticminstrel> | I think all the Obj-C types I use begin with NS. |
| 01:30 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that won't build on Windows. |
| 01:30 | <&McMartin> | But if you've written ObjC for GNUStep or Linux it will compile fine in MinGW :downs: |
| 01:30 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm. |
| 01:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:32 | <@celticminstrel> | The GNUStep wiki seems to imply Foundation is included... |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | Mmm |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | It would be pretty great if they actually have consistent method names now |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | My very brief experimentation many years ago seemed to indicate they did not |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | But maybe I was relying not merely on Foundation but Cocoa. I dunno |
| 01:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, so the types would exist but some of the methods might be named differently? |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | Well, I'd assume Cocoa would flat-out not be there |
| 01:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I shall try it at some point and find out. |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | Do let us know how it works |
| 01:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not using Cocoa. |
| 01:34 | <@celticminstrel> | The only include is <Foundation/Foundation.h> |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | ISTR when I checked years ago there were things like NSString in Macland and GSString or just String in GNUland |
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| 01:34 | <@celticminstrel> | I see. |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | But man, that was *years and years* ago |
| 01:34 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
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| 01:37 | <&McMartin> | So I could have easily been looking at an early version, or not found a relevant command-line switch, or a dozen other things |
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| 02:47 | <@froztbyte> | http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/ |
| 02:54 | | * Alek giggles. |
| 03:36 | <~Vornicus> | that website is something. |
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| 03:48 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:12 | <@Azash> | Out of curiosity, why are they hating on Rijmen? |
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| 04:28 | <&McMartin> | I was going to say "Internet hipsters think AES is just too mainstream" but then I realized that was Rijdael. |
| 04:29 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: @hashbreaker. Ask him. |
| 04:33 | <@Azash> | McMartin: You are correct |
| 04:33 | <@Azash> | Rijndael was named for the two creators |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | Ah |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | I was also under the impression that AES256 was still considered Pretty Damn Good despite being published in the late 90s |
| 04:37 | <&McMartin> | And poking around on wiki it looks like the only actually feasible attacks on it are side-channel attacks, which is to say, fucking with the encryptor itself or at least the machine it's on |
| 04:38 | <&McMartin> | (cache-timing attacks, etc) |
| 04:39 | <@Azash> | I suppose it's related to some of the other work he did, but I'm probably not going to poke strangers on twitter to find out |
| 04:39 | <@Azash> | Well, might as well |
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| 05:00 | <@Alek> | maybe because if he tried, he'd win it all by default? or at least they think so? |
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| 08:11 | <@Azash> | Alek: Yeah but they say that he has already proven that he's snake oil or something |
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| 10:34 | | * TheWatcher arghs, stabs idiots who fail at indentation |
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| 13:34 | < VirusJTG> | I think this is a good place to disclose that the forst two horsemen of the commend end times have been found, COBOL multi core, and COBOL.net |
| 13:34 | < VirusJTG> | <Tamber> <%jsundmanus> RT @phdpqc: @jsundmanus oh but the world is a scary place where concurrent cobol is a real thing https://speakerdeck.com/multicorenz/multicore-cobol-three-approaches |
| 13:34 | < VirusJTG> | and |
| 13:34 | < VirusJTG> | http://www.netcobol.com/ |
| 13:34 | < VirusJTG> | I hope your nightmars aren't too bad now :-P |
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| 14:09 | < AbuDhabi_> | How do I set the text of a plainTextEdit in Qt? |
| 14:10 | < AbuDhabi_> | When I use setText() it complains that there isn't such a method. |
| 14:12 | <@gnolam> | setPlainText()? |
| 14:13 | <@gnolam> | QPlainTextEdits aren't like other, simpler inputs. |
| 14:17 | < AbuDhabi_> | This worked! Thanks. |
| 14:17 | < AbuDhabi_> | So far, I am pleased with Qt. It seems simple enough for me to use. |
| 14:20 | < Syka> | dropbox's ios app has 2.5 stars |
| 14:21 | < Syka> | the android one has 4.6 |
| 14:21 | < Syka> | lol? |
| 14:24 | <@Tamber> | *chirpchirpchirp* |
| 14:25 | < Syka> | wat |
| 14:25 | <@gnolam> | Crickets. |
| 14:26 | <@gnolam> | The traditional sound of people failing to laugh. |
| 14:26 | < Syka> | Tamber can't say anything about crickets |
| 14:26 | | * Syka sits the ashes on Tamber |
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| 19:11 | < AbuDhabi_> | Does Qt have some sort of date/time class in it? |
| 19:14 | < AbuDhabi_> | I mean something like Java.util.Date. |
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| 19:56 | | * AbuDhabi_ finds it. |
| 21:13 | | * Tarinaky idly wonders how to cross 4X-style gameplay with Settlers-of-Catan horse-trading. |
| 21:13 | < AbuDhabi_> | You mean sheep-trading. |
| 21:13 | < ErikMesoy> | Settlers of Catan is what, 3X? |
| 21:14 | < ErikMesoy> | You have the resource gathering, the settlement building and upgrading, and the screwing people over. Just not the fog of war (but there is building supply lines). |
| 21:14 | <@Tarinaky> | It's impossible, in Settlers, to start with all the resources on good numbers. |
| 21:15 | <@Tarinaky> | But 4X games tend to assume that everyone is self-sufficient. |
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| 21:17 | <@Tarinaky> | I suppose it'd be enough for individual colonies to only produce one resource and need you to defend supply routes to shuttle them to hubs where you can build Cool Stuff. |
| 21:19 | <@Tarinaky> | Resources something like... Manpower, Money (which doesn't need transporting), Construction Materials |
| 21:19 | <@Tarinaky> | , Food and Fuel... |
| 21:20 | <@Tarinaky> | s/Fuel/Hydrogen/ |
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| 21:22 | < AbuDhabi_> | If I want Java-like lists and such, where do go? Boost? |
| 21:22 | < AbuDhabi_> | In C++. |
| 21:22 | <@Tarinaky> | But I can't help but feel this isn't cool :/ |
| 21:23 | <@Tarinaky> | AbuDhabi_: std::deque |
| 21:23 | < AbuDhabi_> | I'm not sure I like the data structures provided by STL. |
| 21:23 | <@Tarinaky> | Then you /really/ won't like the data structures provided by boost. |
| 21:23 | < ErikMesoy> | Tarinaky: IMO it's because you're a little vague. |
| 21:23 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm not sure what to add. |
| 21:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Maybe an Energy resource that can't be transported. |
| 21:27 | <@Tarinaky> | So you need to build power plant facilities. |
| 21:28 | <@Tarinaky> | And some planets have energy from radiation/geo-thermal... idk. |
| 21:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Meh. At any-rate, I should go to sleep. |
| 21:43 | <@Alek> | isn't geothermal (the spinning molten core) powered by a combination of plentiful iron and radioactives, at base? or am I mixed up? |
| 22:26 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:48 | < [R]> | AbuDhabi_: STL is pretty much what you want, Boost does a large amount of templating as well. |
| 22:49 | < AbuDhabi_> | [R]: Yet, I think I'd like something more friendly than what I need to do to, for example, iterate over the list. |
| 22:49 | < AbuDhabi_> | I can use it. I've done it. I just didn't like it very much and I hope I can macro my way out of it somehow. |
| 22:50 | < [R]> | You can typedef the iterator's type into something less wordy. |
| 22:53 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 23:10 | <@celticminstrel> | deque? Not list? |
| 23:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Also, AbuDhabi_, you can use Java-style colon for-loops if your compiler supports C++11. |
| 23:11 | <@celticminstrel> | It's even better than in Java because you can make the loop variable a reference if you need to mutate the container.. |
| 23:11 | <@celticminstrel> | And it works for plain arrays too. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jan 12 00:00:31 2014 |