| --- Log opened Sun Nov 03 00:00:15 2013 |
| --- Log closed Sun Nov 03 00:25:40 2013 |
| --- Log opened Sun Nov 03 00:25:49 2013 |
| 00:25 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-3762b576.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 09:01 | < Syka_> | "We couldn't process a payment with your Visa ...XXXX for $XX.XX on Nov 2, 2013. Your bank or credit institution gave the following details about the decline: No reason provided by your financial institution." |
| 09:01 | < Syka_> | google apps billing <3 |
| 09:22 | < Thalass> | *snerk* |
| 09:22 | | * Thalass investigates python and .shp files |
| 09:25 | | * McMartin gets SDL2 working with Monocle on Linux |
| 09:25 | <&McMartin> | It turns out that if you have #include <SDL/whatever.h> your code crashes horribly~ |
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| --- Log closed Sun Nov 03 12:17:51 2013 |
| --- Log opened Sun Nov 03 12:18:24 2013 |
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| 12:18 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 40 nicks [17 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 23 normal] |
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| 13:12 | < ToxicFrog_> | Thalass: .shp? |
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| 13:25 | | * Tamber sinks TF's bttl.shp |
| 13:36 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 13:36 | < Thalass> | shapefile. I was reading linux journal, and they were talking about Thuban for manipulating shapefiles (.shp) for geo-mappery. |
| 13:37 | < Thalass> | I'm working on a raspberry pi robot, and initially i just want to get it moving on command etc, but eventually i'd like to use it to map the house with ultrasonic range/bearing info and the known position of the bot. |
| 13:45 | < ToxicFrog_> | Aah |
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| 14:24 | < Thalass> | As a part of that, i'm unsure how to store and use that data for navigating, and displaying to the user. Just displaying on it's own is probably not that hard, i guess. :P |
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| 15:41 | | * Azash peers at http://pastie.org/pastes/8452380/text |
| 15:43 | | ktemkin[afk] is now known as ktemkin |
| 15:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Uhhh... |
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| 17:04 | < Harlow> | Just a question I have. Can you cause hardware to fail with a virus? |
| 17:06 | < Syka_> | yes |
| 17:06 | < Syka_> | see: stuxnet |
| 17:06 | < ErikMesoy> | A virus can do very funny things with hardware. Like make it walk around. http://everything2.com/title/Hard+Drive+Racing |
| 17:10 | < Harlow> | thats pretty funny |
| 17:10 | < Harlow> | also, stuxnet is a pretty scary idea. |
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| 17:17 | < Harlow> | Motorola 6800 had an HCF (Halt and Catch Fire) code. |
| 17:19 | <@iospace> | hehe |
| 17:49 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
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| 18:36 | <@Azash> | Harlow: This is something I'm not entirely sure about (as I'm not sure how much the driver changes and how much belongs to the controller) |
| 18:36 | <@Azash> | But I guess a malicious or bad HDD driver can cause physical damage to either the reader or the disks |
| 19:04 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 19:30 | <&McMartin> | Looks like SDL_ConvertAudio is horribly broken in SDL2 |
| 19:30 | <&McMartin> | While it was merely embarassingly broken in SDL1 |
| 19:34 | <@Azash> | "The MD5 match ... says they are bit to bit match with very high probabilty ... the FLAC encoder does use lossy compresion and to cover it up, it than changes some bits on the output so, that the resulting files give exactly same MD5's as the original ones ... it is so obvious that this so called FLAC is nothing more than only cheap hype." |
| 19:34 | <@Azash> | Audiophiles \o/ |
| 19:35 | <@Tamber> | ...what. |
| 19:36 | <&McMartin> | Well, so, here it's "In SDL1 it plays this wav too fast and it ends up like a major third out of tune" and on SDL2 it's "it's a burst of static" |
| 19:36 | | Reiv_ [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-95746c1f.kinect.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:37 | <@Tamber> | Azash, would it be possible for you to deliver a kick to the head to them, from me, pretty pretty please? ¬¬ |
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| 19:37 | <@Azash> | Tamber: http://www.head-fi.org/t/242039/flac-is-brighter-than-wav/255 |
| 19:38 | <&McMartin> | Tamber: I believe the usual thing to do is to sell them ordinary cables for $50,000 a foot on the grounds that they're carefully stored in nitrogen-infused environments. |
| 19:39 | <@Tamber> | I just want to return the pain in the head that their stupidity caused~ |
| 19:40 | <&McMartin> | You sure that's not a spoof? |
| 19:40 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Well, it is head-fi |
| 19:40 | <&McMartin> | Are they immune to bored but clever trolls looking to see how many FUCK YEAH AMENs they can get for obvious nonsense? |
| 19:41 | <@gnolam> | With audiophiles, the best bet is usually "real" and not "Poe". |
| 19:41 | <&McMartin> | That's what makes it such fertile ground for spoof trolling |
| 19:41 | <@Azash> | McMartin: It's like someone said #elsewhere |
| 19:41 | <@Azash> | 20:36 <+mjr> a sufficiently advanced audiophile is indistinguishable from a troll |
| 19:42 | | * McMartin considers expanding his previous pitch. |
| 19:42 | <@gnolam> | Azash: heh |
| 19:43 | <&McMartin> | Much as the careful addition of carbon to iron turns it into modern steel, our cables are packaged in a nitrogen-infused environment carefully enriched with a precise amount of carbon and other compounds to ensure the best possible signal quality when you finally put it to use |
| 19:43 | | * Azash snickers |
| 19:43 | <@Azash> | McMartin: You could hype some argon too |
| 19:44 | <@gnolam> | No pitch is too crazy with audiophiles. |
| 19:44 | <&McMartin> | Maybe the cable brand could be ARGON STEEL |
| 19:44 | <&McMartin> | gnolam: Well, the idea here is to market it based on the fact that the container is filled with air |
| 19:44 | <@gnolam> | If I didn't have scruples, I'd totally be in the audiophile scamming market. |
| 19:45 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Argon, like the funds of the customers? |
| 19:45 | <&McMartin> | goddamn alien scruples, amirite |
| 19:45 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: you should definitely add something about argon then. :) |
| 19:45 | < Reiv_> | gnolam: Argon actually costs money, that's the joke |
| 19:46 | < Reiv_> | McMartin: You should have a High Fidelity *digital* cable |
| 19:46 | <&McMartin> | Argon occurs naturally in the atmosphere in certain percentages~ |
| 19:46 | <@gnolam> | Reiv: Which is why you have carefully tuned level of 1% argon. |
| 19:46 | < Reiv_> | ... pft |
| 19:53 | <@gnolam> | Also, high fidelity digital cables are A Thing. :P |
| 19:53 | <@gnolam> | Audiophiles, man. |
| 20:12 | <@Alek> | *audiophules |
| --- Log closed Sun Nov 03 20:34:48 2013 |
| --- Log opened Sun Nov 03 21:09:58 2013 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Nov 03 21:44:04 2013 |
| --- Log opened Sun Nov 03 22:21:43 2013 |
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| 23:24 | | * Vornicus discovers Odd-Even Sort, which surprises him. |
| 23:25 | <@Reiv> | eh wot |
| 23:25 | <~Vornicus> | Odd-Even Sort is a synchronized-parallel sorting algorithm. |
| 23:26 | <~Vornicus> | Each step, you compare adjacent pairs of items and swap them if necessary. |
| 23:27 | <~Vornicus> | You do this on alternating pairs; if you have five objects, you'll compare a[0] <=> a[1] and a[2] <=> a[3] the first step, and a[1] <=> a[2] and a[3] <=> a[4] the second step, and alternate those. |
| 23:30 | <~Vornicus> | You need to do at most n sets of comparisons, and each set of comparisons requires floor(n/2) comparisons. However, the comparison sets are disjoint in themselves; if you can do lots of comparisons simultaneously, then your time gets reduced from O(n^2) all the way down to possibly O(n). |
| 23:31 | <@Reiv> | This is, uh, bubble sort where you check several bits at once |
| 23:31 | <~Vornicus> | Basically, yeah |
| 23:31 | <@Reiv> | I assume this is so you can run sorting in paralellism? |
| 23:32 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah. The closer your comparisons-at-once is to n/2, the faster this operation runs. |
| 23:34 | <~Vornicus> | This is unlike many sorting algorithms, which can't do parallel at all, and merge sort, which while it /can/ do parallel, the closer you get to completion the less you get out of it. |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | So this is, instead of "Good algorathm that gets worse with parallel", "Terrible algorithm that parallel improves" |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | But, hm |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | Hang on a moment |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | Is the total number of operations reduced? |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | Or just the number of operations required sequentially? |
| 23:36 | <~Vornicus> | The total number of operations is equivalent to bubble sort. |
| 23:38 | <@Reiv> | Sso you're sacrificing operational efficiency in the name of total time taken, via the magic of "Fuck it, we've got plenty to spare" |
| 23:39 | <@Reiv> | This annoys me, and yet it is brilliant |
| 23:39 | <@Namegduf> | It's only brilliant if it actually works. |
| 23:40 | <@Namegduf> | Merge sort "gets worse the closer you get to completion", but the distance from completion it can tolerate a given amount of parallelism in is a constant. |
| 23:40 | <~Vornicus> | But, it's a bubble sort that gets a lot faster because you can do lots of things at once. |
| 23:40 | <@Namegduf> | After it's reached that distance there's only O(n) left to do. |
| 23:40 | <@Reiv> | Though I must muse on when it is really preferable to nlogn on one processor; the logn only gets really painful on the big lists - and on the big lists you'd need an awful lot of processors. |
| 23:41 | <@Namegduf> | I don't think this has better characteristics even in theory than merge sort. |
| 23:42 | <@Namegduf> | Merge sort can be parallel over M processors for as long as there's more than M chunks. Once there's less than M chunks, there's O(n*M) left. M not scaling with input, that's O(n) in input. |
| 23:42 | <@Reiv> | Namegduf: At which point one presumes you can cut back the number of processors? |
| 23:43 | <@Namegduf> | Yes. |
| 23:43 | <@Reiv> | In fact I'm pretty sure you could just halve the number of processors you use toward the end for each iteration |
| 23:43 | <@Reiv> | I wonder what that does to the efficiency |
| 23:44 | <@Reiv> | I have a vauge feeling you accidentally sort of end up with the very sort specified above >_> |
| 23:44 | <@Namegduf> | If you have more than n/2 cores, then I think merge sort is O(n) in time as well. |
| 23:44 | | * Vornicus examines, determines that's right. |
| 23:44 | <@Namegduf> | Reiv: Why would you think it'd turn into bubble sort? |
| 23:45 | <~Vornicus> | Merge sort will also be O(n) time given sufficient processors, and there's fewer synchronization steps. |
| 23:45 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, that sounds right |
| 23:46 | <~Vornicus> | Also, unlike e-o sort, you need fewer and fewer processors in later stages of the marge; this means that even if you don't have "enough" processors at the beginning, you will at the end. |
| 23:47 | <@Reiv> | Yeah |
| 23:47 | <@Reiv> | You run in nlogn until you hit the Magic Number, and then you run in /n/ |
| 23:48 | <@Reiv> | Instead of n^2 followed by n once you finally have enough spare |
| 23:48 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 23:48 | <@Reiv> | So I feel like we've either missed something, or someone showed up with bubble sort again on sheer principle. |
| 23:48 | | Harlow [Harlow@Nightstar-6aa290a4.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 23:49 | <@Reiv> | (Bubble Sort: When You Think It's A Good Idea, Implement Insertion Sort Instead) |
| 23:50 | <~Vornicus> | Probably it was on sheer principle. |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, sounds it |
| 23:51 | <~Vornicus> | Well, okay, I'm not sure it's really like bubble sort so much as, um, shaker sort, and even then it's more like gnome-shaker as opposed to bubble-shaker. |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | It sounded really good until I looked at Merge Sort again and realised that it did not, in fact, suck for the last bit >_> |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | gnome-shaker? |
| 23:52 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: so, bubble sort, if you make it efficient, is selection sort |
| 23:53 | <~Vornicus> | gnome sort is bubble sort's equivalent that would make insertion sort instead. |
| 23:53 | <~Vornicus> | Shaker sort is bubble sort that works in both directions. |
| 23:55 | | * Reiv tries to parse those lines, breaks the meaning of 'sort' in his head |
| 23:58 | <~Vornicus> | Bubble sort, on each pass through the list, finds the largest thing that hasn't been placed at the end of the unsorted section of the list and puts it there. |
| 23:58 | <~Vornicus> | Gnome sort doesn't "pass" through the list in the same way as bubble sort - it decides whether to go left or right depending on whether it swapped or not. But it finds the first unsorted thing and moves it into position. |
| 23:59 | <~Vornicus> | Shaker sort, instead of passing through the list in only one direction like bubble sort does, goes back and forth. |
| --- Log closed Mon Nov 04 00:00:37 2013 |