| --- Log opened Mon Nov 04 00:00:37 2013 |
| 00:00 | <~Vornicus> | So it selects the highest and lowest in the unsorted segment and places them on the appropriate ends. |
| 00:03 | <@Reiv> | Right. |
| 00:04 | <@Reiv> | I mean, I know what most of these sorts do |
| 00:04 | <~Vornicus> | gnome-shaker, therefore, approximately does insertion sort from both ends. |
| 00:04 | <~Vornicus> | This gets kind of crazy. |
| 00:04 | <@Reiv> | Just the density of comparative terms in those sentinces broke my head~ |
| 00:05 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
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| 00:19 | <~Vornicus> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd%E2%80%93even_sort graphic at the top of this is kind of cool. |
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| 04:42 | <&McMartin> | jerith: I've gotten the SDL2 port working. At least on Linux, SDL_main is now totally optional. |
| 04:42 | <&McMartin> | I still have no idea what I'm doing getting stuff to compile on Mac, though. |
| 04:42 | < Harlow> | mcmartin why do you use SDL? |
| 04:43 | <&McMartin> | As opposed to... |
| 04:44 | < Harlow> | Erm, well what are you trying to do in SDL? |
| 04:44 | <&McMartin> | I've been using SDL for various things for over ten years |
| 04:44 | <&McMartin> | The most prominent of which was probably the Star Control 2 port |
| 04:44 | < Harlow> | Ok then, I'm going to stop talking. |
| 04:45 | <&McMartin> | But it's been my go-to library for cross-platform framebuffer-y stuff for all that time and I've never seen a credible alternative |
| 04:45 | <&McMartin> | SDL2, on the other hand, was only officially released a few months ago, so I'm digging into its internals to see what's changed |
| 04:45 | < Harlow> | I was just going to recommend you take a look at SFML. |
| 04:46 | <&McMartin> | OK, this might qualify as a credible alternative |
| 04:46 | < Harlow> | which is cross platform and had some frame buffer options. |
| 04:46 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. When I'm actually just messing around prototyping game-y things I actually use Game Maker |
| 04:47 | <&McMartin> | The "monocle" project I've mentioned in here several times is an attempt to loot some of their better design deciisons for my own use elsewhere. |
| 04:47 | <&McMartin> | And the big lift there has been resource marshalling, which it doesn't look like SFML goes for |
| 04:48 | < Harlow> | Coding games is a difficult, not exactly trivial. |
| 04:48 | < Harlow> | resource marshaling? |
| 04:49 | <&McMartin> | Basically, you want the game code to be able to say "give me the art asset named 'blah'" without having to worry about a lot of the details about it |
| 04:49 | <&McMartin> | And my experience has been that things like physfs and friends that just give you a virtual filesystem isn't *quite* enough |
| 04:50 | < Harlow> | oh well you can just use c++ 11 to your advantage with that, SFML does have something similar. I have a book, Im going to look it up right now. |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | I've been doing this bouncing-sprite demo thing as I develop the framework, so this is what I've been working with for now |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | https://github.com/michaelcmartin/monocle/blob/master/demo/resources/earthball.j son |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | You, uh, don't need C++11 to have access to elementary data abstraction |
| 04:51 | <&McMartin> | And that isn't directly the problem anyway. The problem is that you want a notion of a sprite that's more sophisticated than a path leading to a PNG. |
| 04:52 | < Harlow> | :/ like data about the image or what? |
| 04:52 | <&McMartin> | The way I'm doing it is that the equivalent of "here's a PNG" is a "spritesheet" |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | That can be loaded with SDL2 with, basically two lines of code. One to load in the file, and another to send it over to the GPU for 2D accelerated display later on |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | The sprite knows the name of the spritesheets it uses and each frame of its animation is a rectangle on it |
| 04:53 | <~Vornicus> | McM also is aiming at making sure everybody can use it. The entire interface is pure C, because everything can interface with C |
| 04:53 | < Harlow> | oh nice, yeah in sfml you have to code that rectangle |
| 04:54 | <&McMartin> | So it's a list of those rectangles, and the hitbox information, and also the hotspot/origin for when you want "draw the sprite at location (x, y)" to mean something that isn't the upper-left corner |
| 04:54 | <&McMartin> | It sounds like SFML really is a credible rival to SDL in the sense of "be a low-level abstraction that does what you need to for 2D games" |
| 04:54 | < Harlow> | I have a book on it and it's pretty good |
| 04:54 | <&McMartin> | SDL also tries to be a universal input and sound library for various 3D systems (it's what Valve uses for TF2 and stuff) |
| 04:55 | <&McMartin> | It looks like SFML also folds in networking, which uses other libraries in SDL |
| 04:55 | <&McMartin> | But yeah |
| 04:55 | <&McMartin> | I'm aiming a level or two up from that |
| 04:55 | < Harlow> | Yep i looked this up when i was looking for a library for building games. |
| 04:55 | <&McMartin> | I've got this semistructured data thing for describing at a more game-object level how the art assets fit together, and then I'm also going to build a super-basic physics/collision engine |
| 04:56 | < Harlow> | Mcmartin: how long have you been programming? |
| 04:56 | <&McMartin> | The ultimate plan is something that can be readily bound with other stuff and where the other stuff can be almost all game logic |
| 04:56 | <&McMartin> | Full-time professionally, about five years, but it's been a major hobby for basically all my life |
| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | Not mentioned: his PhD in computer science |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | Semipro, as it were, for approaching 20. |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: The places where that lets me pull rank are sharply limited and this isn't one of them |
| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | well, okay, but |
| 04:57 | <&McMartin> | Except for "why did you roll your own JSON parser", for which the answer is "because I could" |
| 04:58 | < Harlow> | i was going to ask why you were using JSON, hahahaha |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: So, the cool thing with that is that a designer then gets a free semi-structured thing if they want to store like level data or something |
| 04:59 | < Harlow> | but it can be easily edited. |
| 04:59 | < Harlow> | which is not ok. |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | And it's a lot easier to deal with at the code level than XML is, and there was no reason to go to a nonstandard data format as opposed to something everybody's editor already knows how to highlight. |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | No, I'd go with "that's a feature" |
| 04:59 | < Harlow> | if your distributing it that is. |
| 04:59 | <&McMartin> | Being moddable is usually considered a plus |
| 05:00 | <&McMartin> | If you want to make that harder, you can hide inside a resource blob that is secretly a zipfile or you can embed it with arbitrary obfuscation inside the executable itself |
| 05:00 | <&McMartin> | Zip file entry, file on disk, chunk of memory properly described: All Is Same To Monocle |
| 05:01 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | "All Is Same To Monocle" is kind of the watchword here |
| 05:01 | < Harlow> | meaning? |
| 05:01 | <&McMartin> | I'm hoping to get Scheme bindings for this and see exactly what kind of hilarious madness I can do with it once I get it to the point that it's good enough to back a Galaga game |
| 05:02 | <&McMartin> | I'm trying to have as few fundamental concepts in the core game library as possible but still have it be useful enough that you could build a game around it without much pain |
| 05:03 | <&McMartin> | I think for Scheme or something else with callable objects you might actually be able to wrap it with "here's the initial setup; here are the callbacks; now process events until one of them is quit" and that's your whole main program logic |
| 05:05 | < Harlow> | sounds confusing |
| 05:05 | <&McMartin> | There's a very specific model I'm trying to replicate, but I'm also trying to get it as minimal as I can |
| 05:07 | <&McMartin> | And it takes some getting used to, but there's pretty strong evidence that it's not tough overall |
| 05:08 | <&McMartin> | Every "for beginners" system I've seen that manages to grow well enough to do semipro or pro-quality stuff all uses this model, so it's got a great pedigree |
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| 05:21 | <~Vornicus> | What precisely is "this model" here? |
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| 06:45 | < Reiver> | McMartin: Do you intend to allow 3D type prototyping too? |
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| 06:47 | | * Reiver muses. |
| 06:48 | < Reiver> | ... We fell off a bit |
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| 06:48 | < Reiver> | McMartin: Do you intend to allow 3D type prototyping too? |
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| 06:49 | < jeroud> | Reiver: That's not SDL's thing. |
| 06:49 | < Reiver> | jeroud: SDL prefers 2D? |
| 06:50 | | * Reiver has decided he wishes to go insane. |
| 06:50 | < jeroud> | Reiver: SDL has no 3D machinery. |
| 06:50 | < Reiver> | But it does have 2D machinery? |
| 06:51 | < jeroud> | It has a framebuffer and stuff. |
| 06:51 | < jeroud> | Most of my experience with SDL is through pygame, though. |
| 06:52 | < Reiver> | Right then. |
| 06:52 | < Reiver> | I have decided, because I am Insane, that I wish to learn Python. And something that links into Python. |
| 06:53 | < Reiver> | My first thought being OpenGL. I wish to create a spinning cube, with a set of buttons to spin it, stop spinning it, and drag it around the screen. |
| 06:53 | < Reiver> | Perhaps Unity would be wiser? |
| 06:54 | < Reiver> | I've no idea, but the temptation does entice me so. |
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| 07:06 | < Reiver> | mostly I want to actually achieve the most basic of GUI, Graphics, and interactivity in which the system does my bidding. |
| 07:06 | < Reiver> | I'll work out what I'm doing from there~ |
| 07:26 | <&jerith> | Reiver: I think pyglet is the library most commonly used for Python 3D stuff. |
| 07:34 | <&jerith> | At least, it's the one I see used with 3D stuff in pyweek most often. |
| 07:48 | < Reiver> | hm |
| 07:48 | < Reiver> | and pygame? |
| 07:50 | <~Vornicus> | pygame is, uh |
| 07:56 | <&jerith> | Reiver: pygame is a general game library. |
| 07:57 | <&jerith> | It has an event loop, some resource management stuff, draw-to-the-screen utilities, etc. |
| 07:57 | <~Vornicus> | I kind of wish for monocle; there's lots of things I want but I can't write on my own, and game maker gets in the way more than it helps. |
| 08:15 | <&jerith> | Vornicus: monocle's sitting at the same level as pygame, just less Python-specific. |
| 08:18 | <~Vornicus> | Pygame has some spectacular deployment issues, and I found it really hard to get stuff done in it and I'm not entirely sure why. |
| 08:20 | < Reiver> | Deployment issues, Vorn? |
| 08:21 | <&jerith> | Vornicus: That's better than it was. |
| 08:25 | <&jerith> | It's still a bit of a pain to install on OSX, but I managed okay with a trunk checkout back whenever the last pyweek was. |
| 08:26 | <~Vornicus> | Reiver: deployment issues, like, you had to use py2exe or py2app or whatever and all of those happen to suck. |
| 08:26 | <&jerith> | Oh, right. |
| 08:26 | < Reiver> | I... see |
| 08:26 | < Reiver> | Better than rolling your own though? |
| 08:26 | <~Vornicus> | Barely. |
| 08:27 | <&jerith> | We have some scripts that we've cobbled together over several pyweeks for that kind of thing. |
| 08:56 | < Reiver> | hrm |
| 08:57 | < Reiver> | Sso maybe not Python as the game language? |
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| 09:31 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:51 | <~Vornicus> | I've had reasonable success with Lua/Love2d lately. |
| 09:52 | <~Vornicus> | The language is often a little more lightweight than I like but being able to go "this structure is now an object of this class" is crazy useful. |
| 09:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Don't you need to use py2exe anyway? If you want to distribute a Python script as an executable? |
| 10:02 | <~Vornicus> | The way Love2d does it is it has its own executable; most of it's actually written in C/C++; you can then hand it a folder or properly formatted, renamed .zip and it uses that. |
| 10:03 | <~Vornicus> | You can also combine the executable with the .love file (by basically catting them together for Windows, and similar things for Mac and Linux), and that can be sent off appropriately. |
| 10:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh yeah, I'm in a lecture right now but I need to poke you later >.< |
| 10:09 | <~Vornicus> | And since the base is actually a standard executable, you can also use people's .love files without doing crazygonuts lib installs. |
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| 10:41 | | * simon_ was making a quick script to fix the format of a report-like plaintext file. I started out using Standard ML and realized I lacked a regex library and a hashmap, then went back to perl. |
| 10:42 | <@froztbyte> | ....why did you use ML? |
| 10:42 | < simon_> | now, the syntax sugar in processing a file one line at a time is really not worth that much.. but a decent regex library and hashmaps... |
| 10:42 | <@froztbyte> | I think that's literally the first time I've ever seen someone state something like "I used ML to solve this" |
| 10:42 | < simon_> | froztbyte, it's a tool that'll be useful in the exam correction process for a course that teaches Standard ML, so I thought it'd be fun. :) |
| 10:42 | <@froztbyte> | so it's an honest question |
| 10:42 | <@froztbyte> | simon_: ah |
| 10:42 | < simon_> | froztbyte, but yeah, I need to implement hashmaps and regular expressions first. *sigh* |
| 10:43 | < simon_> | (just to get some basic convenience) |
| 10:52 | < RichyB> | You probably don't want hashmaps in ML. Wouldn't you rather have a nice binary search tree instead? |
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| 10:53 | < RichyB> | insert : 'k 'v map -> 'k -> 'v -> 'k 'v map |
| 10:53 | < RichyB> | :) |
| 11:00 | | * thalass idly ponders what it would take to make electronic voting (ie: from home computers and/or smartphones) a Thing. I imagine you'd have to have a government issued ECC key and associated programs. But even then: zomg so many dirty windows machines. |
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| 11:26 | <@Tarinaky> | thalass: Basically some onerous mechanism to uniquely and verifyably identify an individual on the internet. |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | But it'd need to be able to resolve that ID to a citizen. Which is something even Google can't do. |
| 11:28 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Reiver: what is it you want to /do/, anyway? |
| 11:31 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 29 nicks [10 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal] |
| 12:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Vornicus: I was wondering if you knew Z-Transforms and Lagrange Transforms and why they're useful in Control Theory? I don't understand that they're accomplishing... |
| 12:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Vornicus: Also: wtf is the Transfer Function? |
| 12:03 | | * thalass idly notes that in order to vote in Australia, you rock up to the polling place, tell them your name and answer "no" to whether you have voted already. You are then marked off the roll and are given the paper. You aren't asked for ID. |
| 12:04 | < Syka> | heh |
| 12:04 | < Syka> | at the federal election, i was 5th in line |
| 12:05 | < Syka> | "have you uh, voted already?" "...no" "didn't think so either." |
| 12:05 | <@Tarinaky> | thalass: Presumably everything goes to shit if your name has already been marked off the roll by someone else? |
| 12:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Plus a Computer can quite hapily spend an entire day doing this over and over again. |
| 12:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Like the automaton it is. |
| 12:06 | < Syka> | it's australia |
| 12:06 | < Syka> | nobody wants to vote twice |
| 12:07 | < Syka> | everyone wants to go home :P |
| 12:07 | < thalass> | True. You are only on the roll for your electorate, so you can't just drive around town voting all day. Though there are usually several places to vote within an electorate so you wouldn't have to drive all over town |
| 12:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, the worry is more someone else claiming to be you and using your vote |
| 12:07 | < Syka> | TheWatcher: yeah |
| 12:08 | <@TheWatcher> | (In the UK, you get an assigned polling station, and they have a list of people who are on the electoral register, and cross you off as you turn up - but they still don't ask for ID) |
| 12:08 | < thalass> | which is why i was thinking you'd have to have a government issued public/private key pair or something like that, but even then you'd have to spend millions explaining to people what that is. :P |
| 12:08 | < Syka> | australia has that already |
| 12:08 | < Syka> | for tax |
| 12:08 | < Syka> | its called AUSKey |
| 12:08 | < thalass> | Srsly? |
| 12:08 | < Syka> | is a shitty java plugin made by Verizon |
| 12:08 | < thalass> | lol |
| 12:08 | < Syka> | and it sucks bags of cocks on linux |
| 12:08 | < thalass> | Well. The precedent has been set at least. |
| 12:09 | < Syka> | on windows it is more of a connisour about the contents of the cock bag |
| 12:09 | < Syka> | but it's still bad |
| 12:09 | <~Vornicus> | Tarinaky: I do not know them. |
| 12:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Damn. |
| 12:09 | < thalass> | I would love to listen to my (elderly) coworkers bitch about having to go vote after work, whip my phone out and do it right there. |
| 12:10 | < Syka> | on the fed election, i drove there after being awake for 29 hours |
| 12:10 | <@Tarinaky> | thalass: The joke would be on you as you would spend the entire time bitching about your phone not working properly. :p |
| 12:10 | < Syka> | that was fun |
| 12:10 | < thalass> | Actually if it was mobile-based you could always make it take a photo while you're voting, too, which would be compared to your driver ID or whatevs. |
| 12:10 | | * thalass laughs |
| 12:11 | < thalass> | My phone works flawlessly, unless CM accidentally lets a buggy nightly through. >.> |
| 12:11 | <@Tarinaky> | I try to avoid trusting IT further than I can throw it. |
| 12:11 | < Syka> | cm nightlies are Bugs, Delivered |
| 12:11 | < thalass> | :P |
| 12:11 | <@Tarinaky> | And about 1/10 that distance when it comes to cell phones. |
| 12:11 | < Syka> | after running the cm9, cm10 and 10.1 nightlies, i have stopped |
| 12:11 | < Syka> | because it causes nothing but sads. |
| 12:12 | <@Tarinaky> | (Strictly horizontal distance, throwing things out the window does not increase trust or reliability) |
| 12:12 | < thalass> | It's just: It's the future. It should be a mass SMS "OK GUYS LETS VOTE ON SOMETHING" and then everyone whips out their device of choice, taps away for a few seconds, then resumes their previous undertakings. |
| 12:12 | <@Tarinaky> | Getting rid of representative democracy would require turkeys voting for Christmas. |
| 12:12 | < Syka> | you mean make the process as inconsequential as voting for australias got talent? |
| 12:12 | < Syka> | nothx |
| 12:12 | < thalass> | (I'm going to stick with the CM10.2 monthlies when they are released for the N7000. It's less stress) |
| 12:12 | <@Tarinaky> | We can't even get voting systems other than FPTP |
| 12:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Besides, there are very good reasons not to trust the population to vote directly on /everything/... Democracy does kindof suck. |
| 12:13 | < thalass> | Speak for yourself. Proportional/runoff(that one confuses me a bit) for the win. |
| 12:14 | < thalass> | Oh there's no way i'd get the entire population to vote for /everything/. Australia is full of xeno/homo/trans/non-wasp/phobic arsehats. It'd just make elections simpler. |
| 12:14 | < thalass> | well. Less of a pain |
| 12:14 | < thalass> | for me |
| 12:15 | <@TheWatcher> | And that's all that matters~ |
| 12:15 | < thalass> | Also: It would be impossible to do because that amount of data would require FTTP broadband, which isn't going to happen. |
| 12:15 | < thalass> | :P |
| 12:17 | <@Tarinaky> | P? |
| 12:17 | <~Vornicus> | Pole, I think. |
| 12:17 | < Syka> | premesis |
| 12:17 | < Syka> | in contrast to fibre to the node |
| 12:18 | <@Tarinaky> | Paleolithic-period, it's a consequence of Superluminal Ansible technology. |
| 12:19 | < thalass> | Fibre to the house. Which i enjoy as a part of Telstra's attempt to pre-empt the former government's efforts. |
| 12:38 | | thalass is now known as Thalass|francais |
| 12:38 | < Thalass|francais> | Syka: You're going to build kitkat yourself? |
| 12:39 | < Syka> | Thalass|francais: fuckno |
| 12:39 | < Syka> | Thalass|francais: i have a n7 |
| 12:42 | < Thalass|francais> | Aaaah. |
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| 14:39 | | * TheWatcher sighs at this developer |
| 14:41 | <@TheWatcher> | "Wouldn't it be better to write [these 6 lines of code, totalling some 308 characters] in one line of code?" |
| 14:41 | < Syka> | TheWatcher: "Wouldn't it be better to drink your 8 glasses of water a day in one sitting?" |
| 14:42 | <~Vornicus> | I've written 300+ character lines of code. Then I added like 15 line breaks. |
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| 15:46 | | ServerMode/#code [+ooaoooooo PinkFreud Namegduf Derakon[AFK] Derakon[AFK] Tamber Azash himi Reiv gnolam] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 15:46 | | ServerMode/#code [+b *!*vasfi@*.res.rr.com] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 15:46 | | mode/#code [+o Alek] by ChanServ |
| 15:46 | | Thalass|francais is now known as Thalass|sleep |
| 15:48 | <@froztbyte> | TheWatcher: it's a magic trick |
| 15:48 | <@froztbyte> | TheWatcher: each time they say those words, bits of your soul disappears |
| 15:48 | <@TheWatcher> | Perl programmer. Immune. |
| 15:51 | < AnnoDomini> | (You can't take water out of an empty cup. :P) |
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| 16:23 | < ErikMesoy> | So I just installed PostGreSQL. http://i.imgur.com/r66pMNe.png Where do I start creating a database, and more generally, what am I missing? My database course had extensive training on how to CREATE TABLE and INSERT in it, not this. The tutorial online tells me to download and install a database, which is not what I want. |
| 16:25 | < Syka> | ErikMesoy: okay so you see that database |
| 16:25 | < Syka> | double click on it |
| 16:26 | < Syka> | bam, there you go |
| 16:27 | < Syka> | you then right click > add database |
| 16:27 | <@froztbyte> | (why are you writing softwares on a windoesn't?) |
| 16:29 | < ErikMesoy> | Syka: What database? |
| 16:29 | < Syka> | ErikMesoy: the database server |
| 16:29 | < Syka> | the one with the x |
| 16:29 | < ErikMesoy> | froztbyte: I'm not writing software. |
| 16:29 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: what are you doing then? |
| 16:30 | < ErikMesoy> | froztbyte: Homework. |
| 16:30 | <@froztbyte> | what does your homework involve? |
| 16:30 | < ErikMesoy> | Syka: Thank you. |
| 16:30 | < ErikMesoy> | froztbyte: Creating a dummy database with 3 tables, then selecting students and courses from it. |
| 16:31 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 16:32 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: this may sound like picking nits or pointless wankery, but, general tip: build a linux VM. do these kinds of things in it. |
| 16:32 | < Syka> | postgresql is okay on windows |
| 16:32 | <@froztbyte> | I believe you'll run into far more yaks (in general) than you need to |
| 16:32 | <@froztbyte> | if you try to do things in windows |
| 16:32 | < Syka> | but, if you're looking for an Actual SQL Prompt, then yeah |
| 16:32 | < ErikMesoy> | froztbyte: As far as I'm concerned, Linux /is/ a yak |
| 16:32 | < Syka> | don't even bother attempting it on windows |
| 16:32 | < Syka> | it sucks |
| 16:33 | < Syka> | use the little sql box |
| 16:33 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: you wanted to go into the infosec kind of space, yes? |
| 16:33 | < ErikMesoy> | froztbyte: Not really. |
| 16:33 | <@froztbyte> | hmm. thought it was you who did |
| 16:34 | <@froztbyte> | regardless, I stand by my advice :) |
| 16:34 | < ErikMesoy> | I have terrible memories of setting up the wireless from last time I ran Linux |
| 16:34 | < ErikMesoy> | "iwconfig eth0 -a -b -c --magic 5234543" |
| 16:35 | < ErikMesoy> | "hmm, doesn't work, increment the number" |
| 16:35 | < Syka> | protip: network-manager exists |
| 16:36 | < Syka> | pro-er tip: using iwconfig manually has two reasons |
| 16:36 | < Syka> | a) your xorg is broke because you're using arch (WHY) |
| 16:36 | < Syka> | b) you are attempting to use wireless on a server (WHYYY) |
| 16:36 | < Syka> | ErikMesoy: shove debian stable in a virtualbox vm, everything works out of the box |
| 16:37 | < ErikMesoy> | I don't know what an xorg is, I don't know what an arch is, I was using Ubuntu, and this just makes me stand by my assertion that Linux is a yak. A recursive yak. |
| 16:38 | < Syka> | it's better than the fractal yak that is postgresql falling over in services.msc randomly :D |
| 16:38 | < ErikMesoy> | Fine. Can we agree all software sucks and leave it at that? :-P |
| 16:39 | < Syka> | all software sucks, but some software sucks more than others! |
| 16:40 | < Syka> | i am knee deep in preseed configs and havent eaten in 12 hours |
| 16:40 | | * Syka decides to fix that |
| 16:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: if you don't know what xorg is and you're using ubuntu, setting up the wireless should be "click the wireless icon", no faffing about with iwconfig |
| 16:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Ubuntu is supposed to 'just work'. |
| 16:51 | <@Tarinaky> | But there are wireless cards out there to which getting them working has the step: "Write FOSS Wireless Drivers for this hardware" |
| 16:51 | <@Tarinaky> | They're somewhat rare though. |
| 17:03 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: you'll note I said "build a VM", not "change your entire world around" :) |
| 17:03 | <@froztbyte> | I'm not blinded by rabid fanaticism (anymore, that time is long passed) |
| 17:06 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: anyway, the reason I recommend a linux vm is that a lot of the things you may encounter in academia are a helluva lot easier to get going there |
| 17:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | ^ |
| 17:14 | <@froztbyte> | 3 months into first year I built one and carried it around on a thumb drive |
| 17:14 | <@froztbyte> | qemu thing |
| 17:14 | <@froztbyte> | performed like ass |
| 17:14 | <@froztbyte> | but still better than the crap I had to deal with on other stuff |
| 17:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | My uni just gave all students taking CS courses ssh access to the lab machines |
| 17:35 | < ErikMesoy> | ToxicFrog: I have that. And some lab machines have linux. I just don't know what to do with it, so for the moment I have settled for using w3schools whose SQL online sandbox does pretty much everything I want without doing a hundred things I don't need. :D |
| 18:04 | < ErikMesoy> | By your powers combined, I am Captain Ugly Hack, doing isomorphic mappings between the database he has and the database he needs! |
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| 18:56 | < ErikMesoy> | How, if at all, would I do a syntax check on PostGreSQL code without running it? |
| 18:56 | < ErikMesoy> | I know an isomorphic version runs in w3schools and I want to check for dialect problems. |
| 18:57 | <@froztbyte> | you can get postgres' query explainer to show the thing |
| 18:57 | < jeroud> | ErikMesoy: I'd run it on a test database. |
| 18:57 | <@froztbyte> | if you have a syntax error, it'll break |
| 18:57 | <@froztbyte> | otherwise it'll say "foo" |
| 18:57 | <@froztbyte> | and yeah, what jeroud said |
| 18:57 | < jeroud> | Or, as froztbyte said, explain. |
| 18:58 | <@froztbyte> | I believe explain should pretty much always work, but people do sometimes write bugs instead of software |
| 18:58 | < jeroud> | Except I can never remember how to ask the database to explain complex queries properly. |
| 18:59 | <@froztbyte> | I think there's a pagination character? |
| 18:59 | <@froztbyte> | I forget |
| 18:59 | <@froztbyte> | don't use it much myself |
| 19:05 | < ErikMesoy> | (some fiddling later) Postgres Explain said nothing, Messages said stuff didn't exist, does Explain have enough priority here that I should be relieved? |
| 19:06 | < ErikMesoy> | The query is: "SELECT emnekode, grnr, COUNT(bnavn) as AntallStudenter FROM EmneStud WHERE grnr is NOT NULL AND emnekode NOT LIKE 'inf1100' AND sem LIKE '2013-2' GROUP BY grnr, emnekode HAVING AntallStudenter < 34 ORDER BY emnekode ASC, grstr DESC;" |
| 19:12 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | ME: I want to add a new flag to control run date exclusions. |
| 19:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | HIM: We already have some other flags controlling similar exclusions. Shouldn't we just combine them all into one flag? |
| 19:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | ME: That will be ugly as sin and complicate the flag processing code. |
| 19:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | HIM: You're right. We should have one flag that passes in a text representation of a protocol buffer that is the exclusion configuration instead. |
| 19:18 | < ErikMesoy> | So what's the compromise going to be? |
| 19:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Nah, we're going with the protobuf with the aim of ditching the ad hoc collection of command line flags in favour of one flag that points it to a configuration file. |
| 20:10 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 20:34 | | * ErikMesoy performs a witch hunt on his code: ctrl-F "æ" and "ø" and "å" so that pesky Norwegian characters won't foul up the charset in transit. |
| 20:40 | <@celmin> | Heh. |
| 20:42 | < ErikMesoy> | I had that invalidate an exercise once. Teacher just said "This doesn't run at all" and marked me zero for it. Saying that it worked fine on my machine didn't help. |
| 20:43 | <@celmin> | Worrying about that is related to why I went and implemented my own file iterator, hash map, linked lists, and stuff for my compiler. >_> |
| 20:44 | < ErikMesoy> | Now I'm curious. Go on? |
| 20:44 | <@celmin> | Assignment 1 was to make a working lexer and use it to implement syntax colouring. |
| 20:45 | <@celmin> | I chose to use C++ rather than Java. |
| 20:46 | <@celmin> | He insisted we were only allowed to read the file one character at a time, so I wrote a file iterator that does effectively that (though with a buffer, so it actually reads several characters at once but only returns one at a time). |
| 20:46 | <@celmin> | Then to store the sequence of tokens I set up a linked list to act as a queue. |
| 20:46 | <@celmin> | It had to be submitted to him so that it could run on whatever machine he wanted to test them on. |
| 20:47 | <@celmin> | Assignment 2 was to parse and verify validity, plus generating the symbol table (I took it a step further and generated a parse tree as well). |
| 20:47 | <@celmin> | I wasn't immediately aware that he was having us demonstrate it to him rather than submit the code, so I implemented a basic hash map to use as the symbol table. |
| 20:48 | < McMartin_> | 12:38 < ErikMesoy> I had that invalidate an exercise once. Teacher just said "This doesn't run at all" and marked me zero for it. Saying that it worked fine on my machine didn't help. |
| 20:48 | < McMartin_> | As a former TA: If it doesn't run on the lab machines, it doesn't run. |
| 20:48 | <@celmin> | Anyway, it's time to go home now, back in like, half an hour. |
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| 21:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Did I miss anything important? Did ErikMesoy have anything to say in response to my elaboration? |
| 21:24 | <@Azash> | Negative |
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| 23:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | So many yaks to shave |
| 23:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | All these goddamn yaks |
| 23:42 | <&McMartin> | YAKS EVERYWHERE |
| 23:49 | <~Vornicus> | sakety yax |
| 23:51 | | * ToxicFrog gets the rocket launcher |
| 23:52 | <@Azash> | Vornicus: Your friends don't yak and if they don't yak.. |
| 23:53 | <@gnolam> | Vornicus: pah, "saxety yaks" fits with the whole shaving theme and everything! |
| 23:59 | | Thalass|sleep is now known as Thalass |
| --- Log closed Tue Nov 05 00:00:52 2013 |