| --- Log opened Sun Oct 20 00:00:47 2013 |
| 00:37 | | ktemkin[awol] is now known as ktemkin[grading] |
| 00:51 | < JustBob> | For you code nuts: http://i.imgur.com/g0Zgf6q.jpg |
| 01:03 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:03 | <@Alek> | ouch |
| 01:03 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-90d86201.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 01:03 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 01:13 | < [R]> | lolwut |
| 01:13 | < [R]> | People serious still use floppies? |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | Welcome to Japan |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | Here is your free Japan |
| 01:19 | <@Namegduf> | Where's that picture from? |
| 01:30 | <@Azash> | JustBob: Imagine the poor IT guy |
| 01:49 | <@Alek> | knowing Japan, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a floppy-feeder machine. |
| 01:51 | < [R]> | Which you can buy from a vending machine. |
| 01:51 | < [R]> | Usually with a used-panties VM right beside it. |
| 01:52 | <@Azash> | But are there vending machines operated by prepaid floppies you get from your bank? |
| 01:52 | <@Azash> | If not, it must happen |
| 01:52 | <@Azash> | The new rival for NFC, FDC |
| 02:11 | <@Alek> | it's nice how the smartphone is so all-in-one. did anyone even come close in predicting it? |
| 02:11 | <@Alek> | communication, library, wallet, entertainment center, and SO much more. |
| 02:12 | <@Namegduf> | People have tried to do it with PDAs before. |
| 02:12 | <@Namegduf> | It is just that they kind of sucked. |
| 02:13 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:16 | <@Alek> | the tech wasn't quite there to do it comfortably. |
| 02:17 | < JustBob> | My Palm LifeDrive worked fine for all-in-one. |
| 02:17 | <@Alek> | you had to plug on attachments for various stuff, like phone, or camera, or etc. |
| 02:17 | < JustBob> | Aside from, admittedly, the whole camera issue. |
| 02:17 | <@Alek> | or being the key word. |
| 02:17 | < JustBob> | Worked fine as a phone as long as you did VOIP. |
| 02:17 | <@Alek> | now it's all together in a smaller package. |
| 02:17 | <@Alek> | and don't forget the versatility of touch. |
| 02:18 | < JustBob> | LifeDrive had that, too. |
| 02:18 | <@Alek> | then we have the accessories that will connect wirelessly. |
| 02:18 | < JustBob> | Ayup, bluetooth. |
| 02:18 | < JustBob> | Really, people just didn't want to /pay/ for it back then. |
| 02:18 | < JustBob> | The tech existed and it worked fine. |
| 02:18 | <@Alek> | bluetooth earpiece, google glass, galaxy watch. |
| 02:19 | <@Alek> | the more specialized stuff, like heart-rate monitor bands. |
| 02:19 | <@Alek> | etc. |
| 02:19 | <@Alek> | now it's smaller, Bob. |
| 02:19 | <@Alek> | and there's more variety. |
| 02:19 | < JustBob> | Not particularly? |
| 02:20 | < JustBob> | My lifedrive is roughly the size of my Galaxy S, and half the size of my Note2. |
| 02:20 | < JustBob> | I mean, I'm not disagreeing the tech's smaller and definitely better, but... It was there ten years ago. |
| 02:21 | <@Alek> | well, yes. |
| 02:21 | <@Alek> | it was there. |
| 02:23 | < JustBob> | It did it comfortably, too. I used my lifedrive more often than my S, though I admit I use my Note more, these days. |
| 02:23 | < JustBob> | That, and the lifedrive kinda, uh. |
| 02:23 | < JustBob> | Died. |
| 02:23 | < JustBob> | Miserably. |
| 02:24 | < JustBob> | After six deployments and being beaten around for eight years. :p |
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| 03:56 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|nap |
| 04:57 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 05:12 | | * Alek has a note 3, LOVES it. |
| 05:12 | <@Alek> | but yeah, it probably wouldn't last that long. o_o |
| 05:19 | | Kindamoody|nap is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:19 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:35 | | ktemkin[grading] is now known as ktemkin |
| 05:43 | < JustBob> | Heh. |
| 05:43 | < JustBob> | I thought about upgrading to a Note3. |
| 05:43 | < JustBob> | But the Note2 is fine for now. |
| 05:43 | < JustBob> | Especially since I still have an X201T that works, as well as a pen tablet for my desktop. |
| 05:44 | < Syka> | wheee |
| 05:45 | < Syka> | i now know what it feels like to lose horrifically in an elecrion \o/ |
| 05:59 | | ktemkin is now known as ktemkin[awol] |
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| 09:54 | | * thalass ponders |
| 09:54 | < thalass> | When making an SD card for Raspberry Pi usage, it is necessary to set the "boot" flag in gparted first? |
| 09:55 | < AnnoDomini> | NOOBS worked for me without extra configs. |
| 09:55 | < AnnoDomini> | Do you have a monitor and stuff or are you trying to run it without? |
| 09:59 | < thalass> | I'm trying to get ssh set up so i can run it headless, i put raspbian on an sd card (a second noname one, so it's probably that) and i just get the activity light dimly lit, as if there was no card in. |
| 09:59 | < thalass> | The wiki says that means no boot code has been loaded. |
| 09:59 | < thalass> | I had the same problem the other day with a different cheap sd card. I guess i'm going to have to get a better one. |
| 10:00 | <@froztbyte> | paste me a link of the instructions you're following |
| 10:03 | < thalass> | http://elinux.org/RPi_Easy_SD_Card_Setup#Using_the_Linux_command_line |
| 10:05 | < thalass> | It says elsewhere that the card has to be FAT32 formatted. |
| 10:05 | < xybre> | It would be ideal, yes. |
| 10:06 | <@froztbyte> | gimme a minute |
| 10:06 | <@froztbyte> | which did you grab, http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian_latest ? |
| 10:09 | | * froztbyte prods thalass |
| 10:12 | < thalass> | Sorry. Had to wrangle the kids. >.< |
| 10:12 | <@froztbyte> | hehe |
| 10:13 | < thalass> | Yeah 09-25 is the image i have. sha1 and md5 etc check out, as does a reverse dd'd image file from the sd card to my hdd. |
| 10:14 | <@froztbyte> | k |
| 10:14 | <@froztbyte> | it's almost done downloading here |
| 10:16 | | * thalass nods |
| 10:16 | | thalass is now known as thalass|afk |
| 10:16 | < thalass|afk> | augh they're being little bastards tonight. |
| 10:18 | < thalass|afk> | I tried NOOBS the other day (on a different cheap card), and when i eventually got it to boot it announced that writes were not persisting, and i would need a network connection to download the OS images that ought to have been on the card already. |
| 10:19 | < AnnoDomini> | thalass|afk: The first time NOOBS boot you need to do a bunch of config stuff, and you need a monitor for that. |
| 10:19 | | * thalass|afk nods |
| 10:19 | < AnnoDomini> | Afterwards you can ssh into it. |
| 10:20 | < thalass|afk> | I'm using a monitor, keyboard and mouse at the moment. I haven't managed to get it to boot properly yet - so no config so far :( |
| 10:21 | <@froztbyte> | elegua% file 2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.img |
| 10:21 | <@froztbyte> | 2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.img: x86 boot sector; partition 1: ID=0xc, starthead 130, startsector 8192, 114688 sectors; partition 2: ID=0x83, starthead 165, startsector 122880, 5662720 sectors, code offset 0xb8 |
| 10:21 | <@froztbyte> | okay |
| 10:21 | <@froztbyte> | so it looks like when you dd this thing over |
| 10:21 | <@froztbyte> | it'll have its own partition tables and stuff sorted already |
| 10:21 | <@froztbyte> | are you removing it immediately after the dd is done? |
| 10:22 | < thalass|afk> | Nope, the file is still on my hdd. |
| 10:23 | <@froztbyte> | no I mean |
| 10:23 | <@froztbyte> | the sd card |
| 10:23 | < thalass|afk> | Oh. haha. I use the sudo sync command, and then remove it. I checked with df -h, too, to make sure it isn't mounted. |
| 10:25 | <@froztbyte> | okay |
| 10:25 | <@froztbyte> | try to check the boot flag with parted |
| 10:25 | <@froztbyte> | also unplug and replug it |
| 10:25 | <@froztbyte> | make sure the partitions actually exist |
| 10:26 | <@froztbyte> | `fdisk -l /dev/device/path` |
| 10:26 | <@froztbyte> | or however parted displays things |
| 10:28 | < thalass|afk> | I get /dev/sdb1p1 being a smaller "W95 FAT32 (LBA) system, and then a /dev/sdb1p2 partition that is "Linux", wich seems to take up the rest of the card. |
| 10:29 | | * thalass|afk brb. dinner time. |
| 10:41 | | thalass|afk is now known as Thalass |
| 10:41 | < Thalass> | omnomnom |
| 11:08 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 11:09 | | * Thalass tries NOOBS again, on this other card. |
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| 11:10 | < thalass> | oops |
| 11:49 | <@froztbyte> | thalass: Soz, had to leave to breakfast it up |
| 11:50 | <@froztbyte> | Those partitions sound right |
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| 11:53 | | * thalass nods |
| 11:53 | < thalass> | thanks. It seems the cheap cards i'm trying to use might be the problem. |
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| 12:08 | < thalass> | Frozt: Question. After you've dd'd the image across to the SD card, are you able to mount the card on the PC and check the contents? One of the troubleshooting steps on elinux.org's troubleshooting guide is to do that, but for me it does not mount - and gparted reports an unknown format. |
| 12:08 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 12:09 | <@Tamber> | Did you dd a drive image to a partition, or vice-versa? Either of those might cause problems. |
| 12:14 | <@froztbyte> | thalass: you should be able to mount it and check |
| 12:14 | < thalass> | huh. |
| 12:15 | < thalass> | I dd'd the .img to /dev/sdb1, and the card was empty, with a single FAT32 partition. |
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| 12:18 | <@froztbyte> | You need to dd it to /dev/sdb |
| 12:18 | <@froztbyte> | No 1 |
| 12:22 | | * thalass facepalm |
| 12:36 | <@gnolam> | http://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/DFD13/Event/202554 |
| 12:36 | <@gnolam> | "In response to harsh and repeated criticisms from our mothers and several failed relationships with women, we present the splash dynamics of a simulated human male urine stream impacting rigid and free surfaces." |
| 12:54 | < thalass> | ... |
| 12:54 | < thalass> | *snerk* |
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| 13:05 | < thalass> | whey hey! It mounts this time. >.> |
| 13:05 | < thalass> | I am such a dumbarse sometimes. :P |
| 13:05 | | * thalass takes the card to his Pi, tries again. |
| 13:40 | < thalass> | IT'S ALIVE! |
| 14:51 | <@froztbyte> | Cool :) |
| 15:07 | <@Azash> | So apparently Mozilla has developed time travel technology |
| 15:07 | <@Azash> | Thunderbird just sent me ten years back in time |
| 15:08 | <@Azash> | "Starting today and lasting until the end of the Halloween celebration on the 5th of November we wish to offer you great deals on either becoming a Member or extending your Membership in Anarchy Online:" |
| 15:12 | <@froztbyte> | that mail probably doesn't have proper timestamps |
| 15:12 | <@froztbyte> | thunderbird throws it to the top of the pile |
| 15:44 | <@Azash> | froztbyte: No, the email is new and all |
| 15:44 | <@Azash> | I was more joking about my surprise that game was still being hosted |
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| 17:01 | | * ErikMesoy experiments with the voice recognition on his tablet. |
| 17:01 | < ErikMesoy> | *presses google audio* "WEBCHAT NIGHTSTAR". |
| 17:01 | < ErikMesoy> | did you mean: "what did just might start"? |
| 17:03 | < Syka> | ErikMesoy: rofl |
| 17:03 | < Syka> | google does "webchat night star" for me |
| 17:03 | < Syka> | and comes up with the correct link |
| 17:11 | < ErikMesoy> | How do I "open link in new tab" on tablet? (Chrome, I think) |
| 18:02 | <@Alek> | longpress, it should pop up options? |
| 18:17 | < ErikMesoy> | Aha. |
| 18:19 | < AnnoDomini> | I got "night star web chat". |
| 18:24 | < ErikMesoy> | Clearly I have an accent. |
| 18:33 | <@froztbyte> | Syka certainly does too |
| 18:33 | < Syka> | wut |
| 18:33 | < Syka> | mine came out correct |
| 18:33 | <@froztbyte> | I've noticed weirdness with the voice API though |
| 18:33 | < Syka> | since nightstar isn't actually a word |
| 18:33 | <@froztbyte> | through some interfaces it works fine, with others it derps out like mad |
| 18:33 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: that's my point |
| 18:33 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: you have an accent and for you it worked |
| 18:34 | < Syka> | i am confused |
| 18:34 | < Syka> | oh |
| 18:34 | < Syka> | i have mine set to English (UK) |
| 18:34 | <@froztbyte> | while for ErikMesoy (who also has an accent) it didn't |
| 18:34 | < Syka> | not English (Australia) |
| 18:34 | < Syka> | which assumes you have an easturn austayan accent |
| 18:34 | < Syka> | if you don't slur your words, it makes mincemeat of it |
| 18:35 | < ErikMesoy> | Hmm. I set mine to English (US) because that's how I write. I have no idea how I talk. >_> |
| 18:35 | < Syka> | where are you from |
| 18:35 | < Syka> | also |
| 18:36 | | ktemkin[awol] is now known as ktemkin |
| 18:36 | < ErikMesoy> | I live in Norway. I spent my childhood in South Africa. |
| 18:36 | < Syka> | you have to end every sentence with a "UNDER GOD" for the english (US) text to speech interpreter |
| 18:37 | < ErikMesoy> | ...what's ridiculous is that I now said "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" and the tablet got it exactly right. :D |
| 18:37 | < Syka> | see? i was being serious |
| 18:38 | < AnnoDomini> | Huh. It got "Mencius Moldbug" right. |
| 18:38 | < ErikMesoy> | How about "Urbit"? :p |
| 18:38 | < Syka> | ErikMesoy: you may want to try english uk, or "English (Generic)" |
| 18:38 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: you're such a fucking troll ;p |
| 18:38 | < Syka> | there is an English (South Africa) |
| 18:38 | < Syka> | if you have that accent still |
| 18:38 | <@froztbyte> | lulz |
| 18:38 | < Syka> | froztbyte: but I turned out correct! :D |
| 18:38 | <@froztbyte> | "that accent" == one of 12 |
| 18:39 | < Syka> | froztbyte: pfft |
| 18:39 | <@froztbyte> | and anyone who says otherwise is being far too hopeful |
| 18:39 | < Syka> | your country is the size of my backyard, and you're all bad at cricket |
| 18:39 | < Syka> | :P |
| 18:39 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: hahaha |
| 18:39 | <@froztbyte> | also |
| 18:39 | < Syka> | also rugby (i think you guys play rugby against us?) |
| 18:39 | <@froztbyte> | I initially read "keyboard" instead of "backyard" |
| 18:39 | < Syka> | at least, in highschool, i got divetackled by a south african |
| 18:40 | <@froztbyte> | so I think I may be stepping away from the keyboard soon |
| 18:40 | < Syka> | froztbyte: at least you're not appreciating the FPS of real life like I was earlier |
| 18:40 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | jenkins is such a pile of shit |
| 18:41 | <@froztbyte> | it's java |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | there is a graph for pylint/etc results |
| 18:41 | <@froztbyte> | just restart it every few days |
| 18:41 | <@froztbyte> | at minimum |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | it doesnt matter if its branches |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | it puts it all in one graph |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | why? because fuck branches |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | they didn't exist in 1997 when this software seemed to have been written |
| 18:41 | < Syka> | they all committed to trunk and liked it |
| 18:42 | <@froztbyte> | rofl |
| 18:42 | <@froztbyte> | so uhm |
| 18:42 | <@froztbyte> | a) jenkins is pretty new-ish |
| 18:42 | <@froztbyte> | b) branches have been a thing since waaaaaaaaaaaay longer |
| 18:42 | <@froztbyte> | c) what'd you expect? ;p |
| 18:42 | < Syka> | froztbyte: jenkins is a rebrand of hudson |
| 18:43 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: I know |
| 18:44 | < Syka> | so it's not that new :/ |
| 18:44 | < Syka> | but yeah |
| 18:44 | < Syka> | considering looking at buildbot, once the scripts stop scaring me |
| 18:44 | <@froztbyte> | it's within 5 years or so |
| 18:44 | <@froztbyte> | buildbot is....weird |
| 18:44 | <@froztbyte> | I took a look at the pypy buildbot setup |
| 18:44 | <@froztbyte> | and it honestly took me a good while to get into it |
| 18:44 | <@froztbyte> | still wanna try get back to it :s |
| 18:45 | < Syka> | i can look at twisteds setup |
| 18:45 | < Syka> | and use their build scripts |
| 18:45 | < Syka> | becausw they do pretty much exactly what I want to do |
| 18:46 | < Syka> | a twistedchecker run, a trial run, and maybe an extra one for jshint |
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| 19:51 | < AnnoDomini> | C++. What do I use when I want a list (using the word in the common sense here) of things. Don't care about them being numbered. Care about being able to retrieve them selectively based on some criteria. Also want to be able to add and delete elements. |
| 19:51 | < AnnoDomini> | *? |
| 19:52 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:57 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm trying to use std::list. I am trying to understand how iterators work. |
| 19:57 | < ktemkin> | Look at the list of STL containers. There are tradeoffs depending on which implementation you choose. |
| 19:57 | < ktemkin> | http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/stl/ <-- Look for a list like that one. |
| 19:58 | < ktemkin> | IIRC, std::list is based on a doubly-linked-list, so it has constant-time addition and removal, but not fast single-element retreival. |
| 19:59 | < ktemkin> | If you're always filtering it (by iterating over every element), that'd work fine. |
| 20:00 | < AnnoDomini> | So how do I filter? I'm absolutely unsure how one does such a thing. |
| 20:02 | <&Derakon> | I think it's something like this: |
| 20:03 | <&Derakon> | for (std::list<foo>::iterator i = yourList.begin(); i != yourList.end(); ++i) {access element using *i} |
| 20:03 | <&Derakon> | It has been awhile since I worked with the STL though. |
| 20:05 | < AnnoDomini> | Ye gods. This could use a macro or something. :P |
| 20:06 | < ktemkin> | AnnoDomini: look in std::algorithm. There are implementations of common algorithms like that. |
| 20:06 | < ktemkin> | Things like: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/algorithm/remove_copy_if/ |
| 20:06 | < ktemkin> | Or, better: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/algorithm/copy_if/ |
| 20:14 | <@froztbyte> | wayttd? |
| 21:07 | | iospace is now known as io\GO_PACK_GO |
| 21:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: I'm so sorry. |
| 21:29 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 21:31 | < AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Why are you sorry? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
| 21:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: because you're trying to do FP-style collection manipulation in C++. |
| 21:36 | < AnnoDomini> | FP? |
| 21:37 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: http://i.imgur.com/PQvEPwc.png |
| 21:37 | < AnnoDomini> | (They move in realtime, but it's inconvenient to show.) |
| 21:37 | <@Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: ? |
| 21:37 | < ErikMesoy> | use moar gif |
| 21:42 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: You were trying to one-up Walmsley, right? |
| 21:42 | < AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: I'd have to make the gif, which is inconvenient. |
| 21:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Yes. |
| 21:44 | <@Tarinaky> | What, however, are you doing? |
| 21:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: functional programming. |
| 21:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | "I have a collection, I want to retrieve some sub-collection that satisfies a predicate" is the filter operation and is trivial to express in e.g. Scala or Lisp (and nearly so in Python) |
| 21:46 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: Drawing a star system! |
| 21:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | And is WELCOME TO TEMPLATE TYPE SIGNATURE HELL in C++. |
| 21:47 | <@Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: Let me know if you figure out how to do Keplerian bodies~ |
| 21:47 | < AnnoDomini> | You mean elliptical orbits? |
| 21:47 | <@Tarinaky> | Yes. |
| 21:49 | < ErikMesoy> | AnnoDomini: Tell me how you're doing orbits and I bet I can figure out how to do elliptical ones pretty fast. I'm guessing you should adjust radius based on value of theta, if the way you're doing it has theta. |
| 21:52 | < AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: I'm calculating cartesian coordinates via uniform circular motion formulas. x = r * cos(fi(0) + speed*t). fi(0) is the starting position in radians, speed is radians/second, t is time. |
| 21:52 | < AnnoDomini> | http://i.imgur.com/OqOfpOh.gif |
| 21:52 | < AnnoDomini> | Have a gif. |
| 21:53 | < AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: What's a template type signature? |
| 21:53 | <@Tarinaky> | ErikMesoy: I think he has a function f(r,t,h,k) = (r sin kt+h, rcos kt+h) |
| 21:54 | < AnnoDomini> | int x = (*j).orbit * cos((*j).offset + game.time * (*j).speed); |
| 21:56 | <@Tarinaky> | k is probably itself a function of r, can't think because brain though. |
| 21:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: the type signature of a template class or function |
| 21:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | E.g. template <class InputIterator, class OutputIterator, class UnaryPredicate> OutputIterator copy_if (InputIterator first, InputIterator last, OutputIterator result, UnaryPredicate pred) |
| 22:01 | <@Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: Why isn't the outermost one moving? |
| 22:01 | < ErikMesoy> | AnnoDomini: r is constant radius here, right? |
| 22:01 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: Probably because it rolled poorly in the random generation on speed. |
| 22:01 | < ErikMesoy> | And y = r * sin(SEE ABOVE),right? |
| 22:02 | <@Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: Shouldn't radius and speed be related? |
| 22:02 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: I don't know. I'm not an astrophysicist. |
| 22:02 | < AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: Yes. Yes. |
| 22:03 | < ErikMesoy> | Well, for starters, take the x = r * cos(fi(0) + speed*t) and update it to something like x = FUDGE_VALUE * r * cos(fi(0) + speed*t) to get the really lazy-ass elliptical orbit that doesn't have the sun as a focus. :-p |
| 22:03 | < ErikMesoy> | (FUDGE_VALUE being around 1, naturally.) |
| 22:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: that gif makes me sad. |
| 22:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: yes, they are. Fundamentally. |
| 22:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Speed increases with gravitational force, and thus varies inversely with orbital radius. |
| 22:05 | < ErikMesoy> | Somewhat more seriously, x = r * cos(fi(0) + speed*t) + FUDGE_2 * cos(0.5*fi(0)+speed*t) should give you one-directional ellipsing where FUDGE_2 has a default of 0 |
| 22:05 | < AnnoDomini> | Why does it make you sad, ToxicFrog? |
| 22:05 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: I'm herping a derp. F=Gm^r^-3 for newtonian gravitation... F=ma... so a=Gr^-3... Can't remember how that gives you what the angular speed is. |
| 22:06 | < ErikMesoy> | If I fucked up that, try x = r * cos(fi(0) + speed*t) + FUDGE_2 * cos(2*fi(0)+speed*t) instead. |
| 22:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: because those orbits are all wrong! |
| 22:06 | < AnnoDomini> | Are you a wizard? |
| 22:07 | < AnnoDomini> | (And by that I mean an astrophysicist.) |
| 22:07 | < ErikMesoy> | AnnoDomini: He's wizard enough to be right. |
| 22:07 | <@Tarinaky> | You keep using that word. |
| 22:07 | < ErikMesoy> | Now go test your ellipses. |
| 22:07 | <@Tarinaky> | I do not think it means what you think it means. |
| 22:07 | < AnnoDomini> | I'll test them after I update my journal. |
| 22:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: I don't remember either, which is why I generally plug the orbital characteristics into some existing piece of software and let that figure whatever other parameters I'm interested in. |
| 22:08 | <@Tarinaky> | I remember doing something /vaguely/ similar as a problem in like... A-Levels... |
| 22:08 | <@Tarinaky> | But that was 5 years ago :/ |
| 22:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: in practice, this is something you usually calculate for an existing body, so what you do is you calculate the orbital period and radius and pray that the orbit is circular (or nearly so), at which point it's easy~ |
| 22:11 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh. I'll have to draw a diagram tomorrow and try to figure it out between lectures :/ |
| 22:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: what exactly are you trying to do? What starting information do you have? |
| 22:12 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: Right now? Trying to remember what exactly the relationship between r and angular velocity/period is. No more. |
| 22:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 22:12 | <@Tarinaky> | Before that, I was watching Star Trek when Anno said my name in this channel. |
| 22:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's harder than that because it also depends on the masses of the bodies involved. |
| 22:14 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: The orbiting mass cancels. |
| 22:14 | <@Tarinaky> | Only depends on the mass of the barycenter. |
| 22:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...right, but depending on that, you'll get different orbital periods at the same radius. |
| 22:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | Unless you mean "I have an orbital system and am interested in how the orbital period of one of the bodies changes as I move it closer to/further from the primary" |
| 22:15 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean: I'm scratching my head and trying to remember of period is linearly related to radius or which power it is. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | TF: I haven't done any real testing on this yet, but van den Boom just pushed the initial Lua infrastructure into UQM. |
| 22:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | In which case I think you want the interesting part of Kepler's Third Law, which is that period^2 is proportionate to radius^3 |
| 22:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah. Right. I can go to sleep happy then :p |
| 22:17 | < AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: Works. Now I just need to adjust the orbits to match what the bodies actually do! |
| 22:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | (which is to say that the orbital period is proportionate to \sqrt{radius^3} with a bunch of constant-for-that-system factors lying around0 |
| 22:19 | <@Tarinaky> | F=GMmr^-3 => Mass (of the start) is proportional to r^3... |
| 22:19 | <@Tarinaky> | That just leaves actual constants lying around... which neither Anno nor me particularly care about. |
| 22:20 | <@Tarinaky> | *of the star |
| 22:24 | < AnnoDomini> | Have your ellipses! http://i.imgur.com/c4ZtV0o.gif |
| 22:25 | < ErikMesoy> | These appear to be the lazy-ass ellipses which don't have the sun as a focus. :p |
| 22:26 | < AnnoDomini> | I think they do, actually. |
| 22:26 | | * McMartin has some ellipses. |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | ... |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | ... |
| 22:26 | < AnnoDomini> | The whole fist? |
| 22:27 | < ErikMesoy> | AnnoDomini: http://www.mathwords.com/f/f_assets/f23.gif |
| 22:28 | < AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: Oh. These have the Sun in their center. |
| 22:28 | < ErikMesoy> | In an elliptical orbit, the sun will not be in the centre. It will be at one of the focuses (foci). Easiest explanation is the one above where the foci are the points such that everywhere on the edge has the same sum-distance from the foci. |
| 22:28 | < ErikMesoy> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kepler-first-law.svg |
| 22:29 | < AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: So I need another fudge factor. |
| 22:30 | < ErikMesoy> | AnnoDomini: Which formula did you use? |
| 22:30 | < AnnoDomini> | x = r * cos(fi(0) + speed*t) + FUDGE_2 * cos(fi(0)+speed*t) |
| 22:31 | < AnnoDomini> | I forgot the 0.5 in the second cos. |
| 22:31 | < ErikMesoy> | Ah. The 0.5 is supposed to make it only stick out to one side, instead of both. |
| 22:32 | < AnnoDomini> | It's easier for me to draw the orbital path if it's on both. |
| 22:32 | < ErikMesoy> | It would be even easier to assume orbits are rectangular. :P |
| 22:33 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm not sure how to draw that. |
| 22:33 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm joking. Look, you can go for simple circular orbits around the sun, or hard elliptical orbits with the sun as a focus, but elliptical orbits with the sun in the middle are just going to have half of us here staring at you with funny expressions. |
| 22:33 | < AnnoDomini> | How do you draw an ellipse that sticks to one side with (x,y) and (rx,ry)? |
| 22:36 | < ErikMesoy> | What's (rx,ry) here? The way I'd do it for ellipses sticking out in arbitrary directions is to use (r, theta) coordinates, converting at the last stage before drawing if necessary, and modding a circular orbit by multiplying r by a factor N where N is a weighted average of 1 and (1+sin(theta)). |
| 22:37 | < AnnoDomini> | Radii in horizontal and vertical. |
| 22:37 | < ErikMesoy> | Weighting depends on how eccentric you want the orbit to be; to alter direction, let the second factor in the weighting be (1+sin(theta+k)) where k is chosen in (0,2pi). |
| 22:38 | < ErikMesoy> | It sounds to me as though (rx, ry) are basically (r cos theta, r sin theta). |
| 22:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Fiddle with r first, before you turn into cartesian. |
| 22:40 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm not *turning* it into cartesian, that's what the function takes and I am feeding it r and r + fudge now. |
| 22:41 | < ErikMesoy> | Umm. When I glare at cos(fi(0) + speed*t), it sounds like basically cos(theta). |
| 22:42 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm gonna try x + half fudge. |
| 22:44 | < AnnoDomini> | That didn't work. |
| 22:45 | < ErikMesoy> | What did it do? |
| 22:45 | < AnnoDomini> | Not match what I want. |
| 22:45 | < AnnoDomini> | What's the relationship of rx and the x coordinate of the focus? |
| 22:46 | < ErikMesoy> | The one focus is supposed to be what the planet goes around, so rx should be calculated from there, I think. |
| 22:46 | < ErikMesoy> | And the other focus isn't relevant ATM. |
| 22:46 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 22:47 | < ErikMesoy> | I should go to bed. I can help more tomorrow if you still care and haven't stopped because you have satisfactorily one-upped someone. |
| 22:47 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:51 | < AnnoDomini> | Perhaphs if I add an epicycle... |
| 22:51 | < AnnoDomini> | (:V) |
| 22:55 | | Harlow [Harlow@Nightstar-2dbe3d64.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:57 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-98762b0f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:57 | < AnnoDomini> | http://imgur.com/VRaEoWm |
| 22:58 | < AnnoDomini> | There. |
| 22:58 | < AnnoDomini> | I think those look better. |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | Argh |
| 23:00 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:01 | | * McMartin guesses as what he needs to install to get Lua working |
| 23:01 | | * McMartin guesses wrong the first time |
| 23:02 | <&McMartin> | and the second |
| 23:02 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: Code included in the description. |
| 23:04 | <&McMartin> | Where the Hell is liblua |
| 23:04 | < AnnoDomini> | >Hell |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | Ah, of course, we can't have it in /usr/lib |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | We also can't have anything anywhere named liblua.so |
| 23:06 | | Harlow [Harlow@Nightstar-2dbe3d64.il.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: BED] |
| 23:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: what OS? |
| 23:08 | <&McMartin> | Ubuntu |
| 23:08 | <&McMartin> | It's named liblua(version number).so and it's in /usr/lib/x84)64-linux-gnu |
| 23:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Helpful. |
| 23:09 | <&McMartin> | Thanks, find |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | Are 5.1 and 5.2 so different? |
| 23:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | They're API and source incompatible, so yes. |
| 23:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Only in small ways, but they aren't drop-in replacements for each other. |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | OK then |
| 23:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | In general, only point releases are safe to swap out with no source changes of any kind. |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | Time to find out if I need to then rip this all out |
| 23:12 | <&McMartin> | Oh, I see |
| 23:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | (luaJIT, on the other hand, is a drop-in replacement for lua 5.1, although it also supports some non-compatibility-breaking extensions) |
| 23:13 | <&McMartin> | The expectation was that pkgconfig knows about Lua, which on Ubuntu, it doesn't |
| 23:15 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-98762b0f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 23:15 | | mode/#code [+o cpux] by ChanServ |
| 23:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: the Officially Recommended Way to add lua to a project is just to untar the entire source tree into the project and build that. |
| 23:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Specifically to avoid this kind of headache~ |
| 23:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | (and also so that you don't need to worry about e.g. distro upstream not realizing that minor releases may break compatibility and deciding that the "lua" package is now 5.2 rather than 5.1 or 5.0) |
| 23:18 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 23:19 | <&McMartin> | I am beginning to see the wisdom of this |
| 23:19 | <&McMartin> | But right now I can't make it build *anywhere*, so~ |
| 23:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Right |
| 23:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | I suspect the fix for this is not going to be "upgrade the build system" but rather "add lua to the source tree" |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | Yes, and I have now forwarded that to him |
| 23:26 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| --- Log closed Mon Oct 21 00:00:02 2013 |