| --- Log opened Tue Jul 16 00:00:43 2013 |
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| 03:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh yeah, Reiv, did you hear about my Best Bug Report Ever? :D |
| 03:52 | <@Reiv> | Do eeet |
| 03:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I get a bug report against vstruct - certain inputs to format p will outright crash the library. |
| 03:54 | <@Reiv> | Ow |
| 03:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | This also reveals that certain inputs into `i` and `u` are not properly truncated, which is alarming. |
| 03:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Fortunately, it's a simple fix. |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | But, in the email, he says this |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | "Hope this helps. This library is very useful for manipulating binary data. Any of my colleagues who have to do the same thing (unpacking/packing binary network data) with C# turn green with envy when I show them a two-liner where they have to write pages of code to achieve the same :)" |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | So, this has me :Ding like crazy |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | I fix the bug, email him the info, he mails back |
| 03:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | His job is building and testing radiotherapy machines for cancer treatment. |
| 03:57 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: Curing Cancer, One Man-Hour At A Time! |
| 03:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | He's been migrating their terrible testing framework to a set of Lua-based tools, using my library for all bit-pushing to the devices. |
| 03:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | In doing so he's automated huge swathes of testing and improved test coverage to boot. |
| 03:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | "PS: So in the furthest sense, I guess you could say that your library may have helped save someone's life." |
| 03:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | There is no :D big enough |
| 03:58 | <&Derakon> | On a related note, y'all should give blood~ |
| 03:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Not bad for something I hacked together five years ago because I wanted to view System Shock map files! |
| 03:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: I can't :( |
| 03:58 | <@Reiv> | Bahahaha. |
| 03:58 | <&Derakon> | Alas. |
| 03:59 | <&Derakon> | International travel DQs you or something? |
| 03:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Otherwise, well, we have regular blood drives at work. |
| 03:59 | <@Reiv> | SHODAN will be /most annoyed/ that she helped cure the imperfections of the meatbags! |
| 03:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Specifically, living in the UK during the mad cow scare does. |
| 03:59 | <&Derakon> | Likewise. Bimonthly visits from the Bloodmobile. |
| 03:59 | <&Derakon> | Ah, yes. |
| 03:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Symbol is likewise disqualified because she sets off false positives in one of the blood-borne disease tests. |
| 03:59 | <@Reiv> | ... which disease? That could end up rather stressful. |
| 04:00 | | * Reiv is DQ'd, though could technically fix that with nontrivial ongoing effort. |
| 04:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | Well, it is a false positive, but they don't want to have to constantly re-check her blood, so she's just completely disqualified. |
| 04:00 | <&Derakon> | The blood bank tends to err on the side of caution |
| 04:00 | <&Derakon> | Sometimes to an excessive extent. |
| 04:01 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: Right, but "Oh, I'm sorry, you have Hep C" would still give the average person an excellent opportunity to examine their cardiovascular rythmn fitness. |
| 04:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | (I don't actually remember what the disease is; they were very emphatic in the initial mail that she didn't actually have it) |
| 04:02 | <@Reiv> | (Aaah. So they told her she false-positived simultaneously with telling her at all?) |
| 04:03 | <@Reiv> | (Here I was figuring "I'm sorry, you have X" "ZOMGWTFBBQ *retest*" "Oh, huh. False positive.") |
| 04:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | (Yeah, no, they get the positive result, re-check it with a different, more reliable test, determine that it's a false positive, and then send out the mail) |
| 04:04 | <@Reiv> | (That's far more reasonable, then.) |
| 04:04 | | * Reiv just can't give blood 'cuz he's on de Good Drugz. >_> |
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| 04:08 | | * Vornicus can't give blood because he'd draw more than the bag holds. |
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| 04:41 | | * Alek visits the neighborhood vampires every other month too. |
| 04:42 | <@Alek> | they have trouble getting enough out of me. ._. |
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| 04:47 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: That fellow sounds like someone whom it would be fun to get to know. |
| 04:47 | <@Reiv> | Not least because he's so darn nice in the bug reports. :p |
| 04:47 | <@Reiv> | (Also at that level of work, is there anything else he'd like help with?~) |
| 04:52 | <@Reiv> | So, ToxicFrog |
| 04:52 | <@Reiv> | Teach me the wonders of vstruct |
| 04:52 | <@Reiv> | So that I too may save lives~ |
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| 05:05 | <&McMartin> | Heh. |
| 05:05 | <&McMartin> | My friends who fled Yahoo formed a company for death ray targeting~ |
| 05:05 | <&McMartin> | They're Pythonists, though, so I know that they are not the ones emailing you~ |
| 05:06 | | * Alek snerks. |
| 05:06 | <@Alek> | everyone who was smart fled Yahoo. |
| 05:08 | <~Vornicus> | actually, something with the power of vstruct would be nice for python as well... |
| 05:09 | <&McMartin> | I think struct is down to about half of vstruct now. |
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| 05:13 | <@Reiv> | Someone fill me in on vstruct and why it is so scary. |
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| 05:16 | <&McMartin> | Scary or awesome? |
| 05:18 | <@Reiv> | Whichever! |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | vstruct is basically the end-all of binary file format readers. |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | (and writers) |
| 05:21 | <@Reiv> | So... it's good, then? |
| 05:21 | <@Reiv> | And TF wrote a lua interface with it? |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | No, TF designed and wrote it from scratch, in Lua. |
| 05:22 | <@Reiv> | ... OK then. |
| 05:23 | <@Reiv> | And he went from "System Shock Unpacker" to "Generically usable Does Everything On The Planet, in Lua"? |
| 05:23 | <@Reiv> | If he did this why hasn't he gone and done something like it to Python or whatever and become Famous yet? |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | Python has a basically good enough system that does most of that |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | It's called "struct" |
| 05:26 | <@Alek> | vstruct is the same thing for Lua, only slower and more versatile. |
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| 05:54 | <~Vornicus> | vstruct does what struct does, plus it handles things like structuring the data as it comes out, repetition, bitfields... |
| 05:55 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: As for why not famous, this is one of those things that most people have thrown together in their own time before |
| 05:55 | <&McMartin> | So the reaction to finding a quality implementation is less "holy shit" and more "oh good" |
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| 07:51 | < [R]> | WTF |
| 07:52 | < [R]> | I can't make interface members protected, but I can make them non-P/P/P? |
| 07:52 | < [R]> | (Which means subclasses can /not/ access said members unless they're in the same package |
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| 07:56 | < [R]> | Basically I have like 50-event functions. Which ideally should be called only when there's an actual event. |
| 07:56 | < [R]> | Guess I get to make them all public, wee! |
| 07:56 | < [R]> | D: |
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| 10:15 | | * TheWatcher blinks |
| 10:15 | <~Vornicus> | Beware the Blinking Beholder |
| 10:16 | <@TheWatcher> | I think I may need to get a larger shirt. |
| 10:16 | <@TheWatcher> | So I can shove this machine under it so ?i can sneak it out of the building |
| 10:17 | <@TheWatcher> | time emerge emacs |
| 10:17 | <@TheWatcher> | real: 1m14.607s |
| 10:17 | <@TheWatcher> | user: 2m0.820s |
| 10:18 | <@TheWatcher> | sys: 0m12.080s |
| 10:28 | <~Vornicus> | I what |
| 10:31 | <~Vornicus> | Where can I get one of those |
| 10:33 | <@TheWatcher> | It's a Dell Precision T7600 with 16 cores and 64GB of ram. |
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| 10:41 | <~Vornicus> | ...want. |
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| 10:50 | < abudhabi> | Which is still not good enough to run Dwarf Fortress. :P |
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| 12:41 | <@gnolam> | https://github.com/mame/quine-relay |
| 12:47 | < RichyB> | I bet that that fucker is mentioned by name on like page six of the Necronomnomnomnomnomicon. |
| 12:47 | < RichyB> | Madness. (Not Sparta.) |
| 12:51 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
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| 13:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiver: well, it's more that I was working on a system shock unpacker, and none of the existing libraries did what I needed, so I decided to write my own as a general-purpose, reusable library rather than an intrinsic part of the unpacker |
| 13:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | And I've just kept improving and maintaining it since. |
| 13:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | I haven't done it for Python because I don't need it for Python. |
| 13:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although with Lunatic I'm pretty sure you can use it seamlessly from Python~ |
| 13:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, vorn has no idea how much hearing it called "the end-all of binary format readers" does for my ego~ |
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| 19:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vornotron: 08:38 <&ToxicFrog> Also, vorn has no idea how much hearing it called "the end-all of binary format readers" does for my ego~ |
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| 20:01 | < Vornotron> | aahaa |
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| 20:12 | <@gnolam> | Urrrgh, someone's coined the expression "post-agile"-. |
| 20:13 | <@froztbyte> | <McMartin> Python has a basically good enough system that does most of that |
| 20:13 | <@froztbyte> | <McMartin> It's called "struct" |
| 20:13 | <@froztbyte> | fwiw, struct is a bit meh, check out construct instead |
| 20:15 | <@froztbyte> | (that is, if someone doesn't port vstruct) |
| 20:17 | <@froztbyte> | Vornotron: I don't know if github's writeup syntax supports this, but the ToC needs to link to the sections |
| 20:17 | <@froztbyte> | because that's a lot of scrolling |
| 20:17 | <@froztbyte> | err, ToxicFrog |
| 20:17 | <@froztbyte> | i don't know how I derped that |
| 20:17 | <@froztbyte> | probably the rage from earlier tonight's events still |
| 20:20 | < Vornotron> | gnolam: I like how that thing goes through those languages in alphabetical order. |
| 20:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | froztbyte: I'm not sure if it does. I'll investigate. |
| 20:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | Because if so, yeah, that would be nice. |
| 20:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | (I only just recently converted the README to markdown at all, so I'm still tidying things up) |
| 20:25 | <@froztbyte> | yar, I recall you mentioned |
| 20:25 | <@froztbyte> | thus figured I'd just note it |
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| 20:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ooo. Construct is ncie. |
| 20:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | It has the combinator and backreference features I've been wanting to include in vstruct. |
| 20:42 | <@froztbyte> | https://thoughtstreams.io/froztbyte/dumb-and-obvious-thoughts-about-parsing-bina ry-pro/ |
| 20:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | Doesn't support as many data types, though. |
| 20:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | So, less featureful than vstruct, but the API looks a lot like what I want vstruct to eventually be. |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | it's got a couple of direct primitives for the usual signed/unsigned stuff |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | I imagine you might be able to smack the rest together with very low-level stuff |
| 20:44 | <@froztbyte> | but vstruct's ability to effectively write bit-oriented parsing strings is pretty nice |
| 20:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, it looks like it gives you the tools needed to implement that stuff, but vstruct has arbitrary width support for everything baked in. |
| 20:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | And weirder formats like fixed point. |
| 20:46 | | * Vornotron flees again. |
| 20:46 | <@froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: how easy would it be to write vstruct code as an inline pipe operation |
| 20:46 | <@froztbyte> | ?* |
| 20:46 | <@froztbyte> | "stream handling" sort of thing, basically |
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| 20:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | Well, it can take arbitrary fds to pack/unpack do, including stdin/stdout (with the caveat if that if you try to seek it will throw) |
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| 20:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's probably not going to be concise enough that you could do it inline, though |
| 20:47 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 20:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | You'd want dd if=in | lua filter.lua | dd of=out, rather than lua -e 'code goes here' |
| 20:48 | <@froztbyte> | that's basically what I'm thinking |
| 20:48 | <@froztbyte> | some level of buffer set in code, read stdin, doStuff(), pass out |
| 20:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Since you'd need the format string itself, then the call to unpack, the filter operation, and the call to pack |
| 20:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which is going to be a bit more than a one-liner except for really trivial stuff. |
| 20:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | (also, it doesn't have any support for streaming of infinite seqs - you're expected to loop calling unpack() on each record if you need that) |
| 20:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | But, yeah, in general, vstruct code that uses stdin/stdout looks exactly like code using an in-memory buffer or a file on disk. |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | yeah I expect I'd have to learn some general lua first, write a stream chunking handler thingy |
| 20:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Lua is pretty easy to learn, honestly, and if you already know another dynamically typed HLL like python or js you're at least halfway there |
| 20:51 | <@froztbyte> | ah well, not an immediate requirement, I was mostly curious |
| 20:51 | <@froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: I actually don't know JS at all, it's something I'm working towards atm |
| 20:51 | <@froztbyte> | even though I have lots of information that tell me web dev is terrible |
| 20:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Give me a struct declaration and an example of what you'd want to do with it and I can probably whip up a short example without trouble~ |
| 20:52 | <@froztbyte> | sec, let me find my crime against humanity |
| 20:52 | | * Azash suggests that goes in the topic |
| 20:54 | <@froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: /query |
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| 21:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | So, taking this back out of the /query |
| 21:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | It looks like v1.1.4 will include a fix for the p crash/u/i truncation issues reported by radiotherapy dude |
| 21:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | And a new public API function, vstruct.records(), for iterating over stream contents. |
| 21:36 | | * McMartin looks at that quine loop |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | I notice the original program is also a piece of ASCII art. |
| 21:53 | < RichyB> | And good ascii art too. |
| 21:53 | < RichyB> | Doubly impressive considering that one stage is Whitespace. |
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| 22:45 | < RichyB> | Okay, so whoever in the cython/pyrex/etc project thought, "I'll just copy the original lines from the .pxi file into a comment right next to the compiled output in the .c file to make this stuff easier to track down", that person deserves a big hug. |
| 22:46 | < RichyB> | Also: intermittent bug in this Python program turns out to be caused by someone iterating the elements of a set() and expecting them to come out in a stable, deterministic order. |
| 22:46 | < RichyB> | Joke's on you, fucker! They come out pretty much entirely at random! |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | sortedset() |
| 22:47 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 17 00:00:59 2013 |