| --- Log opened Wed Jul 17 00:00:59 2013 |
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| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | Hm, Scala doesn't choke the shit out of Iodine anymore. |
| 01:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | \o/ |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | Though compiling Hello World does still take fifteen seconds |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | *Running* it is only 0.6 |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | ... but now Clojure is taking 17 seconds to start up. |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | :psyduck: |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | " Our Groovy support is also not just some simple coating sugar layer. The whole Gradle API is fully groovynized" |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | I know nothing about this language, but it needs to die just based on this~ |
| 01:49 | | * McMartin experiments |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | OK. It's the act of compilation that's absurdly slow here |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | Clojure takes 20 seconds to enter the REPL but then results are basically instantaneous |
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| 02:13 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: I assume Groovy is trying to be something very broadly similar to Swing? |
| 02:13 | <@Reiv> | The names are suspiciously 'inspired'. :p |
| 02:19 | < [R]> | McMartin: you dislike Gradle? |
| 02:20 | | * [R] has only seen it in that 3.8k .java file project. |
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| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | Groovy is basically Ruby for Java. |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | Gradle is Maven for Ruby for Java, apparently. |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | I don't have an *actual* opinion on it; the gag was that in encouraging use of the word "Groovynized" it needed to be destroyed~ |
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| 02:48 | < [R]> | Ah |
| 02:50 | | * McMartin pokes at the Clojure special forms, finds a Thing he kind of wanted. |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | Oh good. |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | Now I can (letfn [(aux [a b] (cons a (lazy-seq (aux b (+ a b)))))] (aux 1 1)) with the best of them. |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | Except for the "full effect" you need to make that be 1N 1N, I guess. |
| 02:51 | <&McMartin> | Since Clojure doesn't autopromote numerical types by default. |
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| 02:54 | <&McMartin> | Ha ha, the evil Haskell trick works too though it's also less clean-looking and more obviously evil. |
| 02:55 | <&McMartin> | (def fib-seq (cons 1 (cons 1 (lazy-seq (map + fib-seq (rest fib-seq)))))) |
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| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | Poking a little at Gradle: "At least it's not Maven, I guess?" |
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| 17:20 | < abudhabi> | http://www.humblebundle.com/weekly |
| 17:21 | < abudhabi> | (Disclaimer: Everything using the Averforge engine is crap.) |
| 17:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | Sorry, Geneforge owns |
| 17:24 | < abudhabi> | That's the Geneforge engine, not Averforge. |
| 17:24 | < abudhabi> | G's engine is passable, albeit inferior to the Avernum engine. And the Exile engine. |
| 17:26 | < abudhabi> | (Technically, the Avernum engine is the Nethergate engine.) |
| 17:45 | <@celticminstrel> | I like all his engines to varying degrees. |
| 17:45 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not really a case of A is better and G is worse, more like A is better for this reason and worse for that reason while G is better for that reason and worse for this reason. |
| 17:47 | < abudhabi> | Can you justify towns being right next door in Averforge? |
| 17:47 | < abudhabi> | (You can bloody walk a combat from one town to another.) |
| 17:48 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't really see much of a problem with that. |
| 17:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Though, you can only do that in Avernum 4 (and probably 5 and 6, which I've still not tried). |
| 17:49 | < abudhabi> | Those are the ones I'm talking about. |
| 17:49 | | * celticminstrel shrugs. |
| 17:49 | < abudhabi> | The previous Avernum games (up to Blades) used the Nethergate engine. |
| 17:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Not quite. |
| 17:49 | <@celticminstrel> | The Nethergate engine was sort of halfway between the Exile and Blades engine. |
| 17:50 | < abudhabi> | Av1, Av2, Av3 and BoA use increasingly improved Nethergate engine. |
| 17:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Nethergate still had the Exile 3 dialogue engine, for example. |
| 17:50 | < abudhabi> | Major difference between these is what happens when you right click. :P |
| 17:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm? |
| 17:51 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think right click has ever done anything in his games... |
| 17:51 | < abudhabi> | It either looks or walks a step. |
| 17:51 | < abudhabi> | I cannot remember which game does which. |
| 17:51 | < abudhabi> | I think Av1 walks a step with rclick. |
| 17:52 | < abudhabi> | The later ones look instead. |
| 17:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, maybe he added that sort of thing in the Windows version. I'm pretty sure it wasn't there in the Mac version. |
| 17:53 | < abudhabi> | >Mac >more than one mouse button |
| 17:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Mac has had multiple mouse buttons for quite awhile now. :P |
| 17:53 | < abudhabi> | Not the ones I've used. |
| 17:54 | <@celticminstrel> | The magic mouse has four buttons. |
| 17:54 | <@celticminstrel> | ...mighty. |
| 17:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Not magic. |
| 17:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Even if there's no right mouse button, control-click has been equivalent forever. |
| 17:54 | < abudhabi> | Yes. Very annoying for a Windows/Linux user, though. |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Why's that? |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | It shouldn't affect them, anyway. |
| 17:55 | < abudhabi> | I have to use all three. |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | All three what? |
| 17:55 | < abudhabi> | Windows, Mac, Linux. |
| 17:55 | < abudhabi> | The major OS's |
| 17:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh. |
| 17:56 | <@celticminstrel> | I think I see what you mean, maybe. |
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| 18:13 | < abudhabi> | !roll 60*0.2 |
| 18:13 | < abudhabi> | Mischan. |
| 18:14 | <&Derakon> | If I want to create a large file of zeros, is it sufficient to create a new file, seek to an offset, and then write a single zero? |
| 18:14 | <&Derakon> | That seems to work in my test, but I'm uncertain if it's always going to work. |
| 18:14 | <&Derakon> | (The problem here is that I'm writing out a binary file format where the file starts out empty and we fill it in with image data later; if some images fail to arrive, then they need to be filled with zeros) |
| 18:15 | <@Tamber> | I suspect that would give you a sparse file with <nothing> for most of it, and a zero at the end. Depending on what the value of <nothing> is, you might be okay |
| 18:15 | <&Derakon> | Right, I'm asking if the <nothing> is guaranteed to be zero or not. |
| 18:16 | <@Tamber> | I can't guarantee it, but I suspect it will be. |
| 18:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: it is under POSIX |
| 18:17 | <&Derakon> | Hm, but we normally run this program in Windows. Poop. |
| 18:17 | <@Tamber> | Surely it'd be more effort to have something other than 0x00? |
| 18:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | "The fseek() function shall allow the file-position indicator to be set beyond the end of existing data [...] subsequent reads of data in the gap shall return bytes with the value 0" |
| 18:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tamber: not necessarily. |
| 18:18 | <&Derakon> | Tamber: well, it could be "whatever's already on the disk". |
| 18:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Say, seeking past end allcoates the space on disk but doesn't zero it. |
| 18:18 | <@Tamber> | ...true enough, I suppose |
| 18:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's super easy to implement! But there are no guarantees as to what you get on read. |
| 18:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | On filesystems that support sparse files, the parts you haven't written usually end up sparse, which is easier to implement. But not all filesystems support sparse files. |
| 18:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er, where reading 0 is easier to implement. |
| 18:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | On windows I have no idea what guarantees, if any, you have. |
| 18:22 | <&Derakon> | Hm, this suggests Windows may work as in POSIX: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9603107/automatically-extend-file-size-when-s eeking-writing-to-a-location-on-a-read-wr |
| 18:23 | <&Derakon> | I may want to just be explicit about this though. |
| 18:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | vstruct.pack("x1024,0", fd) ~ |
| 18:26 | <&Derakon> | Make a 1kb file of zeros? |
| 18:27 | <&Derakon> | Hm, it takes 16.5s to make a 1GB file of zeros by actually writing them all. |
| 18:27 | <&Derakon> | On my laptop. |
| 18:53 | | * Alek ponders. |
| 18:54 | <@Alek> | normally, if you have to randpick from a list, first you have to take the length of the list, then rand(len), then extract the chosen item from the list. |
| 18:55 | <@Alek> | are there any languages that you can provide the list, or a pointer to, and it'll automatically take length etc? |
| 18:55 | <&Derakon> | import random; random.choice(items) |
| 18:55 | <&Derakon> | That's Python. |
| 18:55 | <@Alek> | cool. |
| 18:56 | <@Alek> | thanks. |
| 19:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | (rand-nth items) in clojure. |
| 19:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Lua doesn't have such a function, but it's pretty simple regardless: function choice(items) return items[math.random(#items)] end |
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| 20:06 | < ktemkin[work]> | Ruby is just "list.sample" |
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| 21:31 | | * TheWatcher blinks at the time |
| 21:33 | <@TheWatcher> | I swear it was only just 8pm when I started coding, some bugger has changed all the clocks |
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| 23:20 | <@gnolam> | http://foaas.herokuapp.com/ |
| 23:28 | <@TheWatcher> | ... /linus/:name/:from |
| 23:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Do I want to ask what that Finnish translates as? |
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| 23:29 | <@gnolam> | Probably not. |
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| 23:32 | <@gnolam> | (Even though Finnish is a Crazy Moon Language, I didn't have to look it up. We have enough Finns that the basic curses are common knowledge. :)) |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 18 00:00:15 2013 |