--- Log opened Wed Dec 12 00:00:44 2012 |
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01:51 | <&McMartin> | I have a new favorite line of I7 |
01:51 | <&McMartin> | Rule for clarifying the parser's choice of favorite pants: do nothing. |
01:52 | <@iospace> | ... what? |
01:52 | <&McMartin> | Well, I like it for the implication that the parser has taste in pants |
01:53 | <&McMartin> | What that code *does* is suppress the second line in: |
01:53 | <@iospace> | I7? |
01:53 | <&McMartin> | > TAKE PANTS |
01:53 | <&McMartin> | (your favorite pants) |
01:53 | <&McMartin> | Taken. |
01:53 | <&McMartin> | Inform 7, a domain specific language for text adventures |
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02:03 | <~Vornicus> | That line is worthy. |
02:04 | <@iospace> | heh |
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02:39 | <@Reiv> | Does 'domain specific language' have a particular ruleset aruond it? |
02:41 | < simon`_> | one fellow at my dept. calls Haskell a DSL for the .EDU domain. |
02:42 | < simon`_> | Reiv, I think the common definition is "any restriction to computation" and/or "with the intent of a specific application" |
02:43 | <&McMartin> | I prefer the latter. |
02:43 | <&McMartin> | A crapton of DSLs are Turing-Complete. |
02:43 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
02:43 | < simon`_> | yeah... I think the restriction to computation is usually a consequence of a limited application and not a requirement as such. |
02:43 | <&Derakon> | I mean, Matlab is a DSL for scientific computation. |
02:43 | <&Derakon> | But people write all kinds of crap in it. |
02:44 | < simon`_> | Derakon, I thought Matlab was a general-purpose language. if you call Matlab a DSL, is ActionScript also a DSL? |
02:44 | <~Vornicus> | Usually DSLs are built so if you do practically nothing the resulting program looks like the domain it's in |
02:44 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, I7 (and the more C-like I6 before it) let you define structures that correspond to precise regions of the Infocom Z-Machine's memory state. |
02:44 | <&McMartin> | It is very clearly domain specific. |
02:44 | <&McMartin> | (Also, it includes a natural language parser as its primary event model~) |
02:45 | <&McMartin> | (I7, as may be clear, also decides to point that at the language as well as the object code) |
02:45 | <&Derakon> | Simon: uh, maybe? |
02:45 | <&Derakon> | I would consider, say, AppleScript to be a DSL. |
02:45 | <&McMartin> | That's moving dangerously towards "scripting language" |
02:46 | <&Derakon> | I guess my definition's looser than most, then. |
02:46 | < simon`_> | I thought AppleScript is a general-purpose scripting language for automating Apple computers. I mean, yes, Apple computers are a domain, but it's the domain of a specific flavour of a general-purpose computer. |
02:46 | <&McMartin> | I think my personal breakpoint is "if you wrote something sufficiently different from the intended domain in it, would that count as an 'abuse'" |
02:46 | <&McMartin> | If AppleScript is a DSL, so is Perl. |
02:46 | < simon`_> | ...and any language with bytecode, if you consider the bytecode VM a domain. |
02:46 | <&McMartin> | Also, the domain should be less general than "systems programming"~ |
02:46 | <&McMartin> | A domain is a *problem space* |
02:46 | < simon`_> | ;-) |
02:47 | < simon`_> | I think my defining criterion is "does it solve problems of a general nature, or does it solve a specific subset of problems using high-level constructs?" |
02:48 | <&Derakon> | Would you consider GM's scripting language to be a DSL, McM? |
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02:49 | <&McMartin> | It's getting there, but it's not quite there. |
02:49 | <&McMartin> | The Mindstorms aspect is. |
02:50 | <&McMartin> | GML itself is not, but the context in which it is embedded means that it's part of something that might count as such. |
02:50 | <&McMartin> | There's no way to express in GML "Bind this chunk of code to this event on this class of object" |
02:54 | | * iospace steals McMartin's pants ^_^ |
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02:54 | | * Derakon hands iospace Grunk's flaming pants. |
02:54 | <@iospace> | Derakon: why are you giving me hot pants? |
02:55 | <&Derakon> | So you don't have to burn McM's pants as a light source. |
02:57 | <@iospace> | but i thought jerith was flaming enough that it wasn't an issue D: |
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06:09 | | * jerith sets fire to iospace's underthings. |
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06:55 | < syksleep> | iospace: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity844.html :D nsfw |
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08:07 | | * celticminstrel tries to do for..else in Java, comes up with BREAK: while(true) for() {loop_stuff_here(); break BREAK;} else_stuff_here(); break;} |
08:11 | <@Namegduf> | for...else? |
08:16 | <@celticminstrel> | The Python thing. |
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08:24 | <@Tarinaky> | https://github.com/blog/1302-goodbye-uploads |
08:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Fucking wank :/ |
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08:59 | <&McMartin> | Welp |
08:59 | <&McMartin> | Because who needs to distribute to people who *aren't developers*, amirite |
09:00 | <&McMartin> | Those guys are just moochers and looters anyway |
09:09 | <@Namegduf> | To be fair, it's reasonable to suggest that your system for distributing to end users should not be your VCS provider. |
09:09 | <@Namegduf> | It was just convenient for tiny projects which didn't really have a website. |
09:11 | <&McMartin> | Don't all their suggested alternatives cost money? |
09:12 | <@Namegduf> | It's binary file distribution. |
09:12 | <@Namegduf> | Stick it on your website's webserver, done. |
09:12 | <&McMartin> | You mean, that thing that costs money. |
09:13 | <@Namegduf> | No, not really, free web hosts are actually more numerous than free VCS providers. |
09:13 | <&McMartin> | Yes, I admit to being more familiar with the Sourceforge model. |
09:14 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, I'm just as glad they're paying UQM's hosting costs. =P |
09:16 | <@Namegduf> | It's kinda inconvenient, but I could understand large files being a problem for them. |
09:17 | <&McMartin> | I imagine so |
09:17 | <&McMartin> | I'm mostly noting that it would have killed several of the major projects I worked on. |
09:20 | <@Namegduf> | They're major projects and they don't have a website? |
09:20 | <&McMartin> | They do have a website! |
09:20 | <&McMartin> | SourceForge hosts them. |
09:20 | <&McMartin> | That's also where the development is done. |
09:20 | <@Namegduf> | Ah, that explains it. Github does not AFAIK let you host your own website on their stuff. |
09:21 | <@Namegduf> | I don't think it has project UI skinning functionality or stuff like that. |
09:22 | <&McMartin> | Uh, well, it used to. |
09:22 | <&McMartin> | http://michaelcmartin.github.com/Ophis/ for instance. |
09:23 | <@Tarinaky> | McMartin: Given Github provides a wiki, bug tracker, etc... etc... etc... it was kind of convenient to have archived builds as well. |
09:23 | <&McMartin> | Granted, this is noticably simpler than sc2.sf.net, but a complete sc2 install is quite large and a quick check on the file stats is showing over 100MB of transfers per day. |
09:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Given most of the stuff I have on github can barely manage a README file... |
09:24 | <@Tarinaky> | A web host is asking a bit much. |
09:24 | <&McMartin> | I'm honestly baffled by this reaction. |
09:24 | <@Tarinaky> | What reaction? |
09:25 | <&McMartin> | "Who builds a site for their project so people can download it, anyway?" |
09:25 | <&McMartin> | "That's totally a niche case" |
09:25 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not, actually, thinking about other people. |
09:25 | <@Tarinaky> | I am thinking about my self. |
09:25 | <@Tarinaky> | And I don't have a web site. |
09:25 | <&McMartin> | That's my metric for "you can maybe say your code is in alpha once you've done this" |
09:25 | <@Tarinaky> | I actually hate making web sites. |
09:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
09:26 | <&McMartin> | Lots of people hate debugging, you have to do that too =P |
09:26 | <@Tarinaky> | If making a web site was mandatory for writing code then I probably wouldn't want to write code any more. |
09:26 | <@Tarinaky> | I don't hate debugging. |
09:27 | <&McMartin> | But yes |
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09:27 | <&McMartin> | Unless you present the project in a usable form, it will not be used |
09:27 | <@Tarinaky> | My goal is not to be used. |
09:27 | <&McMartin> | Then why are you using a code-sharing site~ |
09:27 | <@Tarinaky> | To share it with myself. |
09:27 | <@Tarinaky> | For the benefits inherent in hosting my source code, which I don't want to lose, on 'the cloud'. |
09:28 | <@Tarinaky> | And to link to it on my CV. |
09:28 | <@Tarinaky> | At no stage is "get people using my programs" an objective. |
09:29 | <&McMartin> | That attitude is utterly alien to me. |
09:30 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh, okay :/ |
09:30 | <@Tarinaky> | "You don't have to be in a band with a myspace page to play the guitar"? |
09:30 | <&McMartin> | That I get! |
09:31 | <&McMartin> | I don't get "I'm putting all my guitar recordings up on my myspace page, but having people listen to them totally isn't the point" |
09:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Except source code isn't a guitar recording. |
09:31 | <@Tarinaky> | It's more like sheet music. |
09:32 | <&McMartin> | OK, I *also* don't get "I'm posting all this sheet music for music I composed to my MySpace page, but I don't want anyone to play it" |
09:32 | <@Tarinaky> | But it's not on my myspace page, it's on a private repo nobody else can see/use unless I add them. |
09:32 | <&McMartin> | Ah, I see. |
09:33 | <@Tarinaky> | But I can access it from anywhere on the planet. |
09:33 | <@Tarinaky> | On any computer I sit down at. |
09:33 | <&McMartin> | I maintained public repositories. |
09:33 | <@Tarinaky> | I make public repositories out of the stuff I want to share on my CV. |
09:33 | <&McMartin> | In the apparently mistaken belief that Github has interested in fostering some kind of software ecosystem and being a hub for useful stuff. |
09:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Because then having some code hosting actually helps. |
09:33 | <@Namegduf> | McMartin: My suspicion is that you could probably host your project download on Github Pages |
09:34 | <@Tarinaky> | But I don't want to have to make a website to host my portfolio on. |
09:34 | <&McMartin> | Namegduf: Yeah, for Ophis and ARGLE, sure. |
09:34 | <&McMartin> | But if SF did that to UQM, the project would shut down, even now. |
09:35 | <@Namegduf> | McMartin: Github Pages is the "lets you run a website" thing you linked there. |
09:35 | <@Namegduf> | If you're not using it, you have *nothing* but the default Github UI. |
09:35 | <@Namegduf> | UQM would be using Github Pages. |
09:35 | <&McMartin> | Well |
09:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyway. I use a particular feature that is being removed from github. I am allowed to be displeased by this. |
09:36 | <&McMartin> | I am not merely displeased, it was one of the sole features I relied on. |
09:36 | <&McMartin> | Namegduf: An UQM download is several hundred megabytes. It really should be just stuck on a website, and SF doesn't. |
09:36 | <&McMartin> | *should *not* |
09:37 | <@Namegduf> | In that case, yeah, you'd need to go somewhere else. But at that point you're asking for a lot more than a gesture to support the ecosystem, but for them to put up quite considerable funds. |
09:38 | <&McMartin> | Yes, which SF has in fact done as an explicit goal. |
09:38 | <&McMartin> | Which is good, because without that, the project would have been impossible. |
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09:38 | <@Namegduf> | SF is also laden with advertising and is a massive pain to use. |
09:38 | <&McMartin> | Which is why I was shifting my personal projects over to Github. |
09:39 | <&McMartin> | However, this appears to be a use case they don't want. |
09:39 | <@Namegduf> | My point is that if they're doing a lot less annoying stuff to make money, it's reasonable for them not to support expensive use cases for free. |
09:39 | <@Namegduf> | Even if SF does. |
09:40 | <&McMartin> | Which is fine, as far as it goes |
09:40 | <@Namegduf> | The suddenness is kind of harsh |
09:40 | <&McMartin> | But it does mean they are no longer actually offering the product I thought they were. |
09:40 | <@Namegduf> | No new uploads? I guess that release tomorrow is screwed |
09:40 | <&McMartin> | You just got finished saying that *releasing* isn't something you should be doing there =P |
09:41 | <@Namegduf> | Right, but I know people were already doing it. |
09:41 | <@Namegduf> | And they've not been given any migration period. |
09:41 | <@Namegduf> | I think it would have been good for them to have given a better migration period. |
09:42 | <@Namegduf> | Rather than, as you say, simply deciding that that's not a product they are selling (anymore). |
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10:13 | < Syk> | I want to buy a Nexus 4 |
10:13 | < Syk> | Google are still out of stock |
10:13 | < Syk> | FREEE MARKETTTTT *darth vader pose* |
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14:15 | | * iospace eyes Syk |
14:15 | < Syk> | wat |
14:16 | | * Azash ears iospace |
14:17 | <@iospace> | that link wasn't nsfw except text :P |
14:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Azash: That would beel strange. Perhaps even quite eerie... |
14:18 | < Syk> | iospace: it's jerkcity |
14:18 | <@iospace> | heh |
14:18 | < Syk> | the next comic was basically "lol fags licking dick" which is about average for Jerkcity |
14:19 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: I understand that someone with the handle TheWatcher might be predisposed to eyeing |
14:19 | <@Azash> | :P |
14:19 | <@TheWatcher> | Aye. |
14:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | The best use of Jerkcity is taking terrible political comics and replacing their dialogue with Jerkcity logs. |
14:24 | <@iospace> | hahah |
14:24 | <@iospace> | oh AMIBIOS |
14:24 | <@iospace> | written in ASM |
14:24 | | * iospace gags |
14:36 | < Syk> | http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity3827.html |
14:36 | < Syk> | this is my favourite one ever |
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14:59 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin (and others who dink around with random languages): http://qdb.slipgate.za.net/FlyingCircus/318 |
15:06 | < RichyB> | A botnet is probably a pretty good example of a utility computing system. |
15:07 | <@froztbyte> | indeed |
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15:17 | | * TheWatcher reads some of the other quotes in there, fallsover laughing at some of SerpentWolf's amazing experiments in typing. |
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15:18 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
15:18 | <@froztbyte> | that qdb is full of interesting bits of wisdom |
15:20 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-27936bbc.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #code |
15:20 | <@froztbyte> | #321, for instance |
15:20 | <@froztbyte> | and #320 |
15:20 | <@iospace> | oh |
15:20 | <@iospace> | ? |
15:21 | <@froztbyte> | qdb.slipgate.za.net |
15:33 | | celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel |
15:35 | <@gnolam> | http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/256816/if-n-the-order-of-a-group-and-gcd k-n-1-then-there-exists-an-element-in?__=650705013#comment562583_256816 |
15:37 | <@TheWatcher> | .... pft, owned. |
15:37 | <@froztbyte> | youch |
15:38 | < Syk> | i dont get it |
15:40 | <@froztbyte> | Richard Statman is the examinator at CMU |
15:40 | <@froztbyte> | and OP is asking the internet for help on a take-home exam question |
15:40 | < Syk> | ... |
15:40 | < Syk> | ..........................BAHAHAH |
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16:05 | <@Tarinaky> | gnolam: Where's Statman? |
16:06 | <@gnolam> | Looks like it's been deleted by a moderator. |
16:06 | <@gnolam> | Still on his other question though: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/256822/product-of-two-polynomials-p-and- q-with-rational-coefficients-has-a-integer-coef |
16:13 | <@Tarinaky> | I see. |
16:14 | <@Namegduf> | And now it is gone. |
16:14 | <@Namegduf> | From there, too. |
16:14 | <@Namegduf> | Bill Dubuque is removing the hilarity in realtime. |
16:15 | <@gnolam> | Killjoy. |
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16:17 | <@gnolam> | Screenshotted for posterity: http://i.imgur.com/3ZZhS.png |
16:33 | <@Namegduf> | Nice; it just came up in another channel I was in, so I was able to link them the screenshot too. |
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17:36 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam++ |
17:37 | <@celticminstrel> | "John Paul"? |
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23:36 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
23:37 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
23:37 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
23:53 | | Reiv [NSwebIRC@A3BDC3.5BE3EC.B8847E.5ADB9D] has joined #code |
23:53 | | mode/#code [+o Reiv] by ChanServ |
--- Log closed Thu Dec 13 00:00:59 2012 |