| --- Log opened Tue Dec 11 00:00:23 2012 |
| --- Day changed Tue Dec 11 2012 |
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| 00:27 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 01:04 | <@Alek> | oh, trust me, Google Maps is quite often off the mark about an address here or there, or out of date on a street. |
| 01:04 | | * Alek drives for a job. can SEE it. |
| 01:13 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:14 | <@gnolam> | Alek: what're you replying to? |
| 01:16 | <@Alek> | Syk and TF, circa a little over 7 hours ago. |
| 01:16 | <@gnolam> | Ah. |
| 01:17 | <@gnolam> | Well, Google Maps is light years ahead of whatever Apple's map thingy is called anyway. |
| 01:17 | <@gnolam> | Where entire cities have ceased to exist. |
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| 01:22 | <@Alek> | true, true. |
| 01:22 | <@Alek> | better than Tomtom or Garmin. Or the third GPS maker I can never remember the name of. |
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| 04:27 | < mac> | can someone tell me the difference between properties and fields (c#) |
| 04:28 | <&McMartin> | Properties are accessor methods, not the fields themselves. |
| 04:29 | <&McMartin> | The kind of thing that C++ and Java use getFoo() and setFoo() for. |
| 04:29 | <&McMartin> | But you call them with field syntax, which lets you back-fit them into structures that exposed fields |
| 04:30 | < mac> | mcMartin how is that used say i have flavor::Flavor Which one is the field |
| 04:31 | <~Vornicus> | mac has a flavor |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | mac: You need to make your own field to back it if it's a property IIRC but it's been awhile |
| 04:31 | <~Vornicus> | A property need not have its own actual backing field |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | Right, it can be procedural |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | The property encompasses the getter and setter methods. |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | Which might just be field accesses, but might include other things |
| 04:33 | <~Vornicus> | You can, for instance, make a complex number type (don't do this this way; numeric types should be immutable) with an "argument" property which is its angle, and it returns atan2(self.y, self.x) |
| 04:34 | <~Vornicus> | Course you can make all of the vars const and then make just readers in the properties |
| 04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | How does C# use ::? Same as C++? |
| 04:50 | <@Namegduf> | Additional infos: It is considered idiomatic to use a property for data which has field-like semantics. |
| 04:50 | <@Namegduf> | That is, if you assign it then read it back it will be what you assigned it to, and the assign is not terribly expensive. |
| 04:51 | <@Namegduf> | Whereas you'd use methods to set and retrieve if it was doing anything really odd that changed those things. |
| 04:51 | <@Namegduf> | And it's idiomatic to use a field never in classes. |
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| 06:20 | | * thalass ponders buying either an Nvidia GTX550 Ti or a GTX650 Ti. The latter is about $50 more expensive, but according to the performance metrics on the nvidia site is better (higher bar graphs!) - the only thing is according to the retail site i was going to buy from the 550 has 3gb ram, and the 650 has 1gb. Though i can't find this on the nvidia site. |
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| 06:27 | < zhitak> | howdy |
| 06:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | 'evening |
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| 07:58 | <&McMartin> | Hello, what's this? |
| 07:58 | <&McMartin> | Game Maker has changed its data formats, and now the stuff I couldn't programatically edit is XML |
| 07:58 | <&McMartin> | Maybe I can do dynamically generated stuff after all |
| 08:25 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 08:25 | <&McMartin> | That would be nice, and maybe let me use it for more than just the most utterly basic of prototypes |
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| 09:22 | <&McMartin> | w00t |
| 09:22 | | * McMartin extracts his platform info from automatically from a .room.gmx file. |
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| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/games/DD/test_room_report.txt |
| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/games/DD/zone_1_report.txt |
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| 10:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 11:20 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, that sucked. |
| 11:25 | <@TheWatcher> | ? |
| 11:26 | | * Azash agrees |
| 11:26 | <@Tarinaky> | I had to come in at 10 for group project meeting because my code "doesn't work". |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | The dreaded "I can't get it to work error" |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | turns out the issue is with the servlet code... |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Which I don't know anything about. |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Then I had two monkeys fucking up git. |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Blargh. |
| 11:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Fuck students :/ |
| 11:28 | <@iospace> | oi |
| 11:30 | <@Azash> | Excuse me |
| 11:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Are you undergrads? |
| 11:31 | <@iospace> | i am |
| 11:31 | <@Azash> | Yep |
| 11:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Really? You've been undergrads longer than I have :/ |
| 11:31 | <@Tarinaky> | What's wrong with you? |
| 11:32 | <@iospace> | ... how do you know that? |
| 11:32 | <@Tarinaky> | Because you've been here longer than me? |
| 11:32 | <@Azash> | There are a couple of responses I have for that, but this channel is among the more civil I know, so I'll pass. |
| 11:32 | <@iospace> | ... what |
| 11:33 | <@iospace> | ok Tarinaky, did you just say the fact that we've been in #code longer than you means we've been undergrads longer than you? |
| 11:33 | <@Tarinaky> | IDK. I'm tired and exhausted, leave me alone. |
| 11:34 | <@iospace> | just don't make assumptions like that |
| 11:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Fine. |
| 11:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I still hate everyone at University. |
| 11:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I just hate some people more. |
| 11:35 | <@iospace> | heh |
| 11:35 | <@iospace> | and chances are i have been an undergrad longer than you, but last time i checked TheWatcher isn't one :P |
| 11:39 | <@Tarinaky> | 5 years :/ |
| 11:40 | <@Azash> | That's longer than me. |
| 11:40 | < RichyB> | Yesssss, seriously, fuck undergrads. |
| 11:40 | < RichyB> | They're numerous, and some are pretty. ;P |
| 11:40 | < RichyB> | </creepy> |
| 11:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Pffft |
| 11:41 | <@TheWatcher> | (and yes, I haven't been an undergrad for 14 years) |
| 11:42 | <@TheWatcher> | (I just work for a uni) |
| 11:44 | <@iospace> | Tarinaky: i will have been one for 6 years when i graduate. combo of the uni screwing me over, a missed semester (for a co-op), and a major change |
| 11:44 | <@Tarinaky> | I really, really, am not coping this semester. |
| 11:44 | <@Tarinaky> | iospace: Same. |
| 11:44 | <@Tarinaky> | Although my 6 years will include a year out. |
| 12:10 | < Syk> | I didn't qualify for university! :D |
| 12:12 | | * iospace facepalms |
| 12:21 | < Syk> | iospace: wut |
| 12:21 | < Syk> | i didn't |
| 12:21 | < Syk> | reason why: i did AP courses |
| 12:22 | <@iospace> | ah |
| 12:23 | < Syk> | and got fucked by a) mark averaging and b) shitty, first-year-it-had-been-introduced curriculum :| |
| 12:23 | < Syk> | it turns out all the city kids in private schools did really well |
| 12:23 | < Syk> | which pulled my 'alright B' into a 'barely passing C' |
| 12:25 | <@froztbyte> | mark averaging pisses me the living fuck off |
| 12:25 | <@froztbyte> | let the shitty school system fail all those people |
| 12:25 | <@froztbyte> | hopefully that'll then act as a wakeup call for someone to fix stuff |
| 12:27 | <@TheWatcher> | ^-- |
| 12:31 | <@Tarinaky> | froztbyte: The usual way it works in this country is marks get consistently better year on year (by average). |
| 12:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is unsurprising given the material is the same each year and the teachers get more practiced/better with experience. |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | I don't think that really has /that/ much to do with it |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | it does help, to be sure |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | but only as the starting point |
| 12:35 | <@froztbyte> | the issue that I've commonly noted in .za is a failure in someone's ability to effectively communicate knowledge |
| 12:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not saying the students are better. |
| 12:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm saying that they're better able to perform under the limited set of circumstances the assessment assesses. |
| 12:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is what the teachers are assessed on and being pushed towards - so they#l get better at it. |
| 12:36 | <@froztbyte> | doesn't that boil down to "people are getting better at teaching other's how to game the system"? |
| 12:36 | | * TheWatcher ponders, gets out the Barge Pole, as he knows the other side of this issue, and it is never popular. |
| 12:37 | <@froztbyte> | how so? |
| 12:38 | <@Tarinaky> | froztbyte: When someone has no interest in a subject what else is there to teach them? |
| 12:38 | <@Tarinaky> | "You vill enjoy Shakespear or else." |
| 12:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Enthusing the students about a subject only works when the students actually want to be there. |
| 12:40 | <@gnolam> | Mark averaging? |
| 12:40 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: University doesn't make the tabloids every year with "A-Levels are getting easier" :p |
| 12:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Universities have the Industry: "We want you to distinguish between candidates by more than third/2:2/2:1/first categories" "Sure! Here's the candidates transcripts" "Gnyah, :effort:" |
| 12:43 | <@TheWatcher> | froztbyte: I present for your edification the nuggets of information: LEAs (and schools in LEAs that devolve the responsibility) choose exam boards based on historical pass rates; LEAs and schools try to maximise pass rates as their funding and league-table standing is based on it; exam boards rely on funding from LEAs to operate and need to look attractive to LEAs and schools; there is little to no effective oversight for exam contents. I'll let |
| 12:43 | <@TheWatcher> | you work out where this goes. |
| 12:44 | <@Tarinaky> | That as well. |
| 12:44 | <@Tarinaky> | Although we can agree that the 'English Bacc' proposal the Education minister is pushing doesn't address this. |
| 12:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Damn right |
| 12:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Because it'll be run by the same exam boards, who will be chosen by the same LEAs. |
| 12:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | gnolam: IIUC, it's taking the scores, and assigning grades relative to what the distribution is. |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | TheWatcher: no, sure |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | TheWatcher: but this ties directly into my opening rant |
| 12:46 | <@froztbyte> | the entire system is broken. badly. |
| 12:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Totally agreed |
| 12:46 | <@Tarinaky> | There are no easy fixes where it is broken. |
| 12:46 | <@froztbyte> | and, worse, it's a negative feedback loop |
| 12:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | So if you have a test that most get 20 out of 100, and then someone gets 50 out of 100, most will get middle grades, while that one guy will get a good mark, even though the scores are abysmal in absolute terms. |
| 12:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | I had a math teacher who did it like that. |
| 12:47 | <@froztbyte> | that's the one way |
| 12:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | In comparison, there was another math teacher who taught the other half of my year, who scored in absolute terms. |
| 12:47 | <@froztbyte> | the other way is to have people's stuff marked, then adjust certain people's marks so that the plot of marks distribution better fits a bell curve |
| 12:48 | <@froztbyte> | the latter is very common in .za |
| 12:48 | <@TheWatcher> | AnnoDomini: lemme guess, as he Consistently got lower grades from students, was frequently criticised for being a poor teacher? |
| 12:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | So after first year, there were perhaps four people who passed his classes, and everyone else either flunked or got a conditional pass. |
| 12:48 | <@froztbyte> | "sorry, we've got too many people failing. adjust their marks up by 5~8%" |
| 12:48 | <@TheWatcher> | s/C/c/ |
| 12:48 | <@gnolam> | Ah. |
| 12:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | TheWatcher: I don't know what the other teachers said about him, never came up. The students thought he was basically Satan. |
| 12:48 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky: easy fixes are not required, a replacement is |
| 12:49 | <@froztbyte> | that's why I find things like Khan Academy and Coursera so awesome |
| 12:49 | <@gnolam> | That is a shitty system. |
| 12:49 | <@Tarinaky> | A replacement with what. |
| 12:49 | <@froztbyte> | something else |
| 12:49 | <@froztbyte> | I don't have the immediate answer |
| 12:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is what I mean by there are no easy fixes. |
| 12:49 | <@froztbyte> | as I haven't been able to spend the time figuring it out |
| 12:49 | <@Tarinaky> | A superior system does not exist yet. |
| 12:49 | <@froztbyte> | there are other people working to fix it, though |
| 12:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | gnolam: I agree. |
| 12:50 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky: there are plenty of superior systems |
| 12:50 | <@gnolam> | Our old grade system was supposed to follow a normal distribution, but it was basically removed because too many teachers misinterpreted it as meaning "the grades of any one class should be normally distributed". |
| 12:50 | <@froztbyte> | they have their own downfalls, though |
| 12:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Then they aren't, strictly, superior. |
| 12:50 | <@froztbyte> | like the socratic method needs a higher amount of clueful/understanding teachers |
| 12:50 | <@froztbyte> | yet arguably it has a vastly better model, and outcome |
| 12:51 | <@Tarinaky> | A large role of our education system is to assign arbitrary marks to people based on their behavior and apparent worth as an investment for future education and training. |
| 12:51 | <@Tarinaky> | This has nothing to do with actual education. |
| 12:52 | <@AnnoDomini> | My university was a dysfunction junction, to the point that it became a common thing to say, "only at X" where X is my uni. |
| 12:52 | <@gnolam> | Its replacement was explicitly rewritten to say that the grades should reflect absolute competency values instead, with guidelines to what they should entail. |
| 12:52 | <@Tarinaky> | The most popular system for assigning these marks just happens to be to spend 6 months teaching a room of 30 people some unfamiliar material and seeing who are able to regurgitate more of the material while sat in a gym hall for 2 hours. |
| 12:52 | <@AnnoDomini> | Only a handful of teachers were worth a crap. The others were either demotivated, crap at teaching, or both. |
| 12:53 | <@gnolam> | Which was nice, for a while. Until grade inflation set it. |
| 12:53 | <@Tarinaky> | This system, for better or worse, is essential to our labour system and without it we would have to return to nepotism. |
| 12:53 | <@gnolam> | Now, high school grades are basically irrelevant and you have to rely on the shitty SAT equivalent instead. |
| 12:54 | <@froztbyte> | in the whole of my school career I had two good teachers |
| 12:54 | <@froztbyte> | a fun side fact that I noted with the one's class |
| 12:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | gnolam: Yeah. It used to be that you could get a job with a high school education. Nowadays you need a college degree to prove that you are intellectually capable of operating a cashier machine. |
| 12:54 | <@froztbyte> | was that while she was an /excellent/ teacher, many of the kids struggled in that class because she was trying to communicate knowledge, instead of information to be rote-learned |
| 12:54 | <@froztbyte> | I found that kinda funny |
| 12:55 | <@gnolam> | (Seriously, the high school grades have literally underwent an exponential inflation since my time.) |
| 12:55 | < Syk> | froztbyte: nono |
| 12:55 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: heh |
| 12:55 | < Syk> | froztbyte: it works bot hways in Aus |
| 12:55 | < Syk> | froztbyte: too many people were passing |
| 12:55 | < Syk> | and getting good marks |
| 12:55 | < Syk> | this must mean the course is too easy |
| 12:55 | <@gnolam> | froztbyte: the first six years of school were net /negative/ for me. :P |
| 12:55 | < Syk> | y'know, not that PEOPLE ARE LEARNING IT |
| 12:55 | <@gnolam> | Didn't learn a thing except really bad habits. |
| 12:55 | <@Alek> | and actually, there are PLENTY of people with a college degree, and even a master's or doctorate, who are intellectually INcapable of operating a cashier machine. D: |
| 12:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | Alek: My point exactly. |
| 12:56 | < Syk> | well cashier machines are complex |
| 12:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | Something terribly terrible has happened to the education system. |
| 12:56 | | * Syk saw one of the electronic ones for the leisure center that she administrated |
| 12:56 | < Syk> | :< so many levels of menus |
| 12:56 | <@Alek> | everything is complex these days. doesn't mean it's HARD. |
| 12:57 | <@Alek> | a monkey could operate one just on rote memorization. |
| 12:57 | < Syk> | >Food/Drink > Drink > Pepsi > Pepsi Max |
| 12:57 | | * Syk cries at it |
| 12:57 | <@Alek> | but yeah, that's TOO much complexity. |
| 12:57 | <@AnnoDomini> | I suspect it is caused by assuming that credentialed == educated == smart. |
| 12:57 | <@Alek> | and we all know what happens when you assume. XD |
| 12:57 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: yes, this happens in .za too |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | oh and |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | in one math course |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | it was the mainline Math |
| 12:58 | <@froztbyte> | if the distribution of marks does not fit the bell curve chosen for that year, people's shit gets adjusted |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | that everyone else was doing |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | I got a 97% |
| 12:58 | <@froztbyte> | I requested a remark of two of my matric papers |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | and that got marked down to a *75* |
| 12:58 | <@Alek> | wat |
| 12:58 | <@froztbyte> | and their percentages differened by 12% and 14% each |
| 12:58 | < Syk> | because of averaging |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | both had been pushed down to fit the curve |
| 12:59 | < Syk> | the class did too well |
| 12:59 | <@Alek> | gnar |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | it is so hilariously broken |
| 12:59 | < Syk> | so the entire class was marked down |
| 12:59 | <@Alek> | I am so sad. |
| 12:59 | < Syk> | and then THE ENTIRE STATE did too well |
| 12:59 | < Syk> | so the WHOLE STATE was marked down |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | <AnnoDomini> Something terribly terrible has happened to the education system. |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | not really |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky stated it correctly earlier |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | the current education system, at large, is a product of the industrial revolution |
| 12:59 | < Syk> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA |
| 12:59 | <@Alek> | I was lucky, I guess. I appear to have been in school before the averaging craze. |
| 12:59 | < Syk> | related |
| 12:59 | <@AnnoDomini> | froztbyte: Explain. |
| 13:00 | <@froztbyte> | the key layout of it is to find a probable area where you'll benefit that around you |
| 13:00 | <@froztbyte> | in the industrial revolution, suddenly you had a bunch of machines that could seriously ramp production of things up |
| 13:00 | <@froztbyte> | but now you needed to know who could do well where |
| 13:00 | <@froztbyte> | cue the current education system. |
| 13:01 | <@froztbyte> | (more or less, there have been some slight changes) |
| 13:01 | <@AnnoDomini> | No contest there, so far. |
| 13:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | If you treat the educational system as a test of who is smart and who is not, as determined by how far up the ladder they can get, the system works as intended and gets you people who are about as smart as they are educated and credentialed. |
| 13:03 | <@froztbyte> | not quite |
| 13:04 | <@froztbyte> | if you treat it as a test of who can figure out how to climb the ladder or not, then it works as intended :P |
| 13:04 | <@froztbyte> | I, for example, have a very short stint at university before I got the bloody hell out of there |
| 13:05 | <@froztbyte> | the only things I learned were that my compsci lecturer and I could have good debates, and that university admin at RAU fucking sucks balls |
| 13:05 | <@Namegduf> | As a test of pure g-factor, it isn't great because things like getting work done are very significant. |
| 13:05 | <@Namegduf> | As a test of a sort of combination of that and effectiveness, though, it works better, for the same reason. |
| 13:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yeah. |
| 13:06 | <@froztbyte> | as an aside, I found this a decent and relevant watch: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html |
| 13:07 | <@Namegduf> | Is that the one with the stort of the person who's good at dancing? |
| 13:07 | <@Namegduf> | *story |
| 13:07 | <@froztbyte> | no |
| 13:08 | <@AnnoDomini> | I recall there being a paper on CompSci education results (The Camel Has Two Humps, I believe it was called) which showed that a proportion of students seem inherently incapable of learning programming. |
| 13:09 | <@Namegduf> | I read about that. |
| 13:09 | <@Namegduf> | Or more precisely students who met a given criteria would not benefit from the course. |
| 13:10 | <@froztbyte> | haha, I actually saw that paper last night |
| 13:10 | <@froztbyte> | 2006 paper |
| 13:10 | <@Namegduf> | I was given the test in that paper on entering university. |
| 13:10 | <@Namegduf> | I'd already seen it. |
| 13:10 | <@froztbyte> | http://elegua.za.net/~froztbyte/teaching-programming.pdf |
| 13:10 | <@froztbyte> | if anyone wants |
| 13:10 | <@Namegduf> | I think they were trying to redo it or something. |
| 13:11 | <@froztbyte> | yay to fast internet |
| 13:11 | <@Namegduf> | Well, I like this Ken Robinson guy for one thing in particular: |
| 13:11 | <@Namegduf> | He got to a point and made it. |
| 13:12 | <@froztbyte> | :) |
| 13:12 | <@Namegduf> | TED talks are not uniformly great quality, but it's still a useful service. |
| 13:13 | <@froztbyte> | yes |
| 13:15 | <@Namegduf> | I mean, like most of the speakers, rather than having some single proposal and specific evidence for that, it is hooked into this whole worldview he sort of sells |
| 13:23 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:23 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 13:24 | <@Namegduf> | Oh, it is the dancer thing. He starts telling that little story around the 15 minute mark. |
| 13:24 | <@Namegduf> | I thought I remembered this talk. |
| 13:24 | <@froztbyte> | oh |
| 13:24 | <@froztbyte> | why don't I remember that |
| 13:24 | <@froztbyte> | maybe I only ever saw the short version or something |
| 13:24 | <@Namegduf> | It's just one of his examples. |
| 13:25 | <@TheWatcher> | AnnoDomini: having taught programming now for 10 years, I can say with complete certainty that it's true. Some people just can not think in the required way |
| 13:25 | <@Namegduf> | So could easily just be forgotten. |
| 13:25 | <@froztbyte> | see, that's such a foreign concept for me |
| 13:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Not as in "find it difficult", as in /simple can not do it/ |
| 13:26 | <@TheWatcher> | *simply |
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| 13:26 | <@Namegduf> | I think the data more solidly backs "simply can't do it" than "simply can't do it and no mechanism can change this ever" |
| 13:26 | <@froztbyte> | I have a remarkably flexible brain, as one might say |
| 13:26 | <@froztbyte> | "cognitive putty" should be a thing that comes from this discussion |
| 13:27 | <@Namegduf> | My impression is that some people simply can't or don't try to build and use a workable model of things. |
| 13:27 | <@TheWatcher> | Namegduf: maybe, but there have been students I have tried every possible approach I could think of with, and at best they have managed micro-programming |
| 13:27 | <@Namegduf> | Where things is specifically programming-related stuff. |
| 13:28 | <@TheWatcher> | (as in, they can just about figure out things like the syntax and basic uses of conditionals and loops, but they just can not make progress beyond that, producing code that has no logical structure) |
| 13:29 | <@Namegduf> | So like about a third at least of CS graduates. |
| 13:29 | <@Namegduf> | XD |
| 13:30 | <@froztbyte> | I've ranted here about the time in university when I had the broken linker, right? |
| 13:30 | <@Namegduf> | froztbyte: I forgot how badly he goes off into the woo at the end with "within 50 years all forms of life would flourish", as if that was even a meaningful claim |
| 13:30 | <@froztbyte> | and I just couldn't use their pre-supplied stuff for making the project work |
| 13:31 | <@froztbyte> | I was probably one of two or three people who could've gotten around that issue |
| 13:31 | <@froztbyte> | in a class of 130-odd |
| 13:31 | <@Namegduf> | I've had the misfortune of using http://agentscape.org/ |
| 13:31 | <@froztbyte> | Namegduf: haha |
| 13:31 | <@froztbyte> | Namegduf: well, let hopefuls be hopeful |
| 13:32 | <@froztbyte> | gives them something to work towards |
| 13:32 | <@froztbyte> | and that doesn't sound like a terrible goal :) |
| 13:32 | <@Namegduf> | froztbyte: Well, it was "if all human life disappeared,", so I'm thinking no |
| 13:32 | <@froztbyte> | oh |
| 13:32 | <@froztbyte> | who says that's a bad thing? |
| 13:32 | <@froztbyte> | people are pretty shit |
| 13:33 | <@Namegduf> | I would; I outright value increasing intelligence. |
| 13:33 | <@froztbyte> | anyway, that's probably extrapolating from the "abandoned towns reclaimed by nature" stuff |
| 13:34 | <@Namegduf> | It might be, but "will flourish" is a meaningless statement without context and as a whole it was a pretty bad made-up 'fact' to support the general gist he was going for there. |
| 13:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Namegduf: I really do wonder about the "don't try" thing, though. I've worked with students who really, truly are trying - it frustrates and upsets them that, no matter what is tried, it just does not make sense in their heads. I really do think it's a fundamental cognative difference. |
| 13:36 | <@Namegduf> | I think that's likely. |
| 13:37 | <@TheWatcher> | They're otherwise brilliant - one was doing a PhD in microbiology with several published papers under her belt and a phenominal grip on her subject - but just can't form the mental models required |
| 13:38 | <@Namegduf> | Huh. |
| 13:38 | <@Namegduf> | That is new to me. |
| 13:39 | <@Namegduf> | In this, anyway. I'm familiar with blocks or difficulties even modeling how you're supposed to be going about the task |
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| 14:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | http://zdarsky.tumblr.com/post/37403124592/from-my-unpublished-2008-mike-murdle- mystery |
| 14:34 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 14:35 | <@TheWatcher> | That's just /wrong/ :D |
| 14:36 | <@celticminstrel> | It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. <_< |
| 14:45 | <@iospace> | what |
| 14:45 | < Syk> | http://reddrgn.net/tidbits/a/wecancatchthehacker.html |
| 14:45 | < Syk> | I wrote something like that! |
| 14:46 | < Syk> | c: it's horrible |
| 14:46 | <@iospace> | you're horrible |
| 14:46 | < Syk> | yes I am c: |
| 14:53 | < RichyB> | No, what's wrong is that Syk keeps using backwards-facing smileys |
| 14:54 | < RichyB> | WITCHCRAFT! WITCHCRAFT, DAMMIT, SAY I! |
| 14:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | Behold the depressed Arab smiley: C: |
| 14:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | C:\> |
| 14:54 | < Syk> | RichyB: ? |
| 14:55 | < Syk> | ok so |
| 14:56 | < RichyB> | Syk: hehe, that was good. :) |
| 14:57 | < RichyB> | ? |
| 14:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Wait, does Syk weight the same as a duck? |
| 14:57 | <@TheWatcher> | *weigh |
| 15:09 | < Syk> | wut |
| 15:09 | < Syk> | define duck |
| 15:11 | < Syk> | iospace: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity844.html NSFW |
| 15:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Not sure I want to; you might turn me into a newt. |
| 15:16 | < RichyB> | I'm sure you'll get better. |
| 15:16 | <@iospace> | Syk: at work |
| 15:17 | < Syk> | iospace: ha ha |
| 15:17 | <@iospace> | no really, i am |
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| 15:47 | <@iospace> | ^_^ |
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| 19:20 | <@iospace> | work has taught me one major lesson: ALWAYS COMMENT YOUR DAMN CODE |
| 19:22 | <@rms> | ha |
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| 19:38 | <&McMartin> | Yup |
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| 20:29 | <@TheWatcher> | iospace: damn right |
| 20:29 | <@TheWatcher> | (And yet, so few do ;.;) |
| 20:37 | <@celticminstrel> | You know, what Firefox needs is splitscreen mode... |
| 20:37 | <@celticminstrel> | Or any web browser for that matter. |
| 20:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Like Word's split view. |
| 20:39 | <@celticminstrel> | I see two add-ons that do something similar but different. |
| 20:40 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't mean two pages side-by-side. I mean two views into the same page, such that changes in either are reflected in both. |
| 20:41 | <@celticminstrel> | Although, in practice, the two will tend to be equivalent. Since there's rarely two separate areas changing on a page. |
| 20:44 | <@gnolam> | I disagree with that "needs". |
| 20:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, do you have a better way to compose a reply while reading posts? |
| 20:45 | <@celticminstrel> | You can definitely make a new tab to do it, but... |
| 20:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Or you can open a text file, but that's less convenient. |
| 20:46 | <@gnolam> | Open a new window? |
| 20:46 | <@celticminstrel> | Yes, that's another less convenient method. |
| 20:46 | <@celticminstrel> | Text file's probably better than new window. |
| 20:48 | <@gnolam> | Seriously, that's like... 4 keyboard presses? |
| 20:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Which one? |
| 20:54 | <@celticminstrel> | ...why on earth is Firefox's text drag-and-drop broken. |
| 20:56 | <@celticminstrel> | I can't drag-and-drop at all. If I attempt to, it duplicates the selection on the following line. |
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| 21:29 | | * iospace gets an eye twitch |
| 21:59 | <@iospace> | it's official, i think i'm bitter with OOP |
| 22:00 | <&McMartin> | You are now truly grown up |
| 22:43 | <@Azash> | How come? |
| 23:07 | | * iospace shrugs |
| 23:08 | <@iospace> | hard to describe |
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| --- Log closed Wed Dec 12 00:00:44 2012 |