| --- Log opened Thu Nov 08 00:00:33 2012 |
| 00:10 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:14 | < syksleep> | RichyB: it's a work mobile number |
| 00:14 | < syksleep> | according to corporate policy, that means it has to be on the phone list |
| 00:14 | < syksleep> | this is fine for 99% of staff |
| 00:14 | < syksleep> | but /not/ however for IT |
| 00:14 | < RichyB> | oh |
| 00:14 | < RichyB> | seriously |
| 00:14 | < syksleep> | because people then go "Oh, Syka's not at her desk today." |
| 00:14 | < RichyB> | syksleep: condolences. |
| 00:14 | < syksleep> | "I KNOW, I'LL CALL HER ON HER MOBILE" |
| 00:15 | < syksleep> | and they get a very annoyed syka, answering the phone after she's spent the entire morning throwing up |
| 00:15 | < RichyB> | Why do you have to have a work mobile? ? |
| 00:15 | < RichyB> | Seems like a bad idea if you're not on-call. |
| 00:15 | < syksleep> | because I don't like giving Telstra $50 a month |
| 00:16 | < syksleep> | (the call rates are cheap and I get free data) |
| 00:16 | < RichyB> | Is turning it off outside work+on-call hours infeasible? |
| 00:16 | < syksleep> | yes because it's my phone |
| 00:16 | < RichyB> | Oh, fair enough. Side benefits usually worth it. |
| 00:16 | < syksleep> | I tried carrying around two phones |
| 00:16 | | * RichyB does that. |
| 00:17 | < syksleep> | I stopped after like 3 months |
| 00:17 | | * RichyB may graduate to three. |
| 00:17 | < RichyB> | I have large pockets. |
| 00:17 | < syksleep> | because my good phone + shitty iPhone with giant rubber case = infeasible |
| 00:17 | < syksleep> | since work /only/ buys iPhones. |
| 00:17 | < RichyB> | ew |
| 00:17 | < syksleep> | this was when the iPhone 4 was around. |
| 00:17 | < RichyB> | actually |
| 00:17 | < syksleep> | we have had a 32% failure rate within 6 months of purchase |
| 00:18 | < RichyB> | there's one manager I work with, I ended up bullying her into getting a work iPhone |
| 00:18 | < syksleep> | everything from batteries failing to screens getting smashed to someone's iPhone /getting hit by a car/ |
| 00:18 | < syksleep> | literally |
| 00:18 | < syksleep> | they put it on their bonnet |
| 00:18 | < RichyB> | just because the camera on it is good enough for quickly snapping photos of whiteboards :) |
| 00:18 | < syksleep> | forgot about it |
| 00:18 | < syksleep> | drove off, and RAN OVER THEIR OWN PHONE |
| 00:18 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:19 | < syksleep> | and it was in tiny teeny little bits |
| 00:19 | < RichyB> | heeheeehee |
| 00:19 | < syksleep> | the back glass was literally FOLDED OVER |
| 00:19 | < RichyB> | sorry |
| 00:19 | <@TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | Yeah, my brother did something like that - left it on top of his car, drove off |
| 00:19 | | * RichyB is still giggling. |
| 00:19 | <@TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | No bloody idea how someone does that, but hey |
| 00:19 | < syksleep> | wait |
| 00:19 | < syksleep> | i have pix |
| 00:19 | < syksleep> | gimme 2 sec |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | I totally read that wrong at first |
| 00:20 | < syksleep> | i think |
| 00:20 | <&McMartin> | I was imagining a jaunty hat with an iPhone in |
| 00:20 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 00:21 | <&McMartin> | ASSBONNETS |
| 00:23 | < syksleep> | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14290114/IMAG0160.jpg |
| 00:23 | < syksleep> | here we go! |
| 00:24 | <&McMartin> | That iPhone has seen better days |
| 00:26 | < syksleep> | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14290114/IMG_20111004_163123.jpg |
| 00:26 | < syksleep> | this also made me chuckle when I found it |
| 00:27 | < syksleep> | >XBox magazine: Rock Band |
| 00:27 | < syksleep> | >PS3 mag: BF3 |
| 00:27 | < syksleep> | >shooter magazine: BIG-BORE PIG GUN |
| 00:28 | < syksleep> | McMartin: it also conveniently got replaced by a new, shiny iPhone 4S |
| 00:29 | < RichyB> | syksleep: hah! I bet the SIM card is still usable, barely. |
| 00:29 | < syksleep> | nope |
| 00:29 | < syksleep> | it was bent |
| 00:29 | < syksleep> | so yeah |
| 00:29 | < syksleep> | $800 of hardware destroyed |
| 00:29 | < syksleep> | not even a 'pay more attention' from management to him |
| 00:30 | < syksleep> | just a SYKA WHY DOESN'T HE HAVE A PHONE |
| 00:30 | < syksleep> | IT IS AN OPERATIONAL IMPERATIVE THAT HE HAS A SMARTPHONE |
| 00:31 | < syksleep> | oh and because we're govt and we can't wipe smashed or dead iPhones to any sort of requirements, every broken one is another $800 out of the ratepayer funded budget |
| 00:31 | < RichyB> | man |
| 00:31 | < syksleep> | best use of public funds ever~ |
| 00:32 | < RichyB> | your dept needs a way to charge *his* dept for the replacement, at the very least |
| 00:32 | < syksleep> | also the $1000 iPads |
| 00:32 | < syksleep> | of which two are smashed up a bit |
| 00:32 | < syksleep> | and pretty soon i bet theyre all going to shit themselves at the iPad Mini |
| 00:32 | < syksleep> | and demand that we upgrade the iPad 2s we bought a year ago |
| 00:33 | < syksleep> | actually, rather |
| 00:34 | < syksleep> | it's "they'll buy them on their company credit cards, arrive with no prior telling of IT, and then have them demanded to be set up, each with a $40/month data plan per iPad, as they can't get rid of their old ones yet!" |
| 00:34 | < syksleep> | and since iPads are for "directors & CEO only", we can't USE the old iPads for anything |
| 00:34 | < syksleep> | so they'll keep the old ones too |
| 00:35 | < syksleep> | since they're literally a status symbol for them |
| 00:37 | | * Tamber is still convinced that Syka's bosses all have pointy hair. |
| 00:38 | < syksleep> | in the mornings, the CEO gets his morning apple from the fridge, and sticks it on his hair |
| 00:38 | < syksleep> | so that he can use both hands for his giant iPad as he plays angry birds or some shit |
| 00:38 | < syksleep> | it's /almost/ like that |
| 00:38 | < syksleep> | also brb late for werk |
| 01:19 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-86656b6c.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:20 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-98762b0f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 01:34 | | syksleep is now known as Syk |
| 01:37 | < Syk> | i wonder what would happen if you made localhost point to another IP |
| 01:41 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|mathing|X_X |
| 01:57 | | * Syk gets email from Microsoft |
| 01:58 | < Syk> | two different fonts, three different text sizes and an email address starting with v- |
| 01:58 | < Syk> | sigh |
| 02:02 | < gnolam> | "an email address starting with v-"? |
| 02:03 | < Syk> | it means they're a contractor |
| 02:03 | < Syk> | v-*@microsoft.com == contractor |
| 02:07 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | ??? |
| 02:08 | < Syk> | it means they're not actually Microsoft employees, just contracted |
| 02:09 | < Syk> | generally means they're India based and are usually pushing something useless Microsoft are doing |
| 03:10 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Program Shutting down] |
| 03:47 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:57 | < iospace> | I'VE GOT SPOONS MADE OUT OF SPOONS |
| 03:57 | < iospace> | AND THEY ARE AWESOME |
| 03:57 | < Syk> | iospace: wat |
| 03:58 | | * Alek gives iospace somebody to spoon. |
| 03:58 | < iospace> | >_> |
| 03:58 | <&McMartin> | Yo dawg |
| 04:57 | < Syk> | bluh |
| 04:58 | < Syk> | it's hot outside |
| 04:58 | < Syk> | but today i am not feeling sick after lunch |
| 04:58 | < Syk> | SUCCESS |
| 05:00 | < Syk> | ............ |
| 05:00 | < Syk> | iospace: please come and hit me |
| 05:00 | < Syk> | with a bucket of nails |
| 05:00 | < Syk> | i just realised that my application working was a GIANT FLUKE |
| 05:03 | < Syk> | i was giving the datareader object a random bloody connection |
| 05:03 | < Syk> | and then sometimes it would start up |
| 05:03 | < Syk> | and the random connection wouldt be open |
| 05:03 | < Syk> | so it wouldnt work |
| 05:03 | < Syk> | ...the connection being open is PURE CHANCE |
| 05:04 | < Syk> | pure chance that has worked 99% of the time |
| 05:46 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:48 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | These guys need to learn the meaning of "friendly GUI". http://pqrs.org/macosx/keyremap4macbook/index.html.en |
| 05:48 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | An "Open private.xml" button is not a friendly GUI. |
| 06:00 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 06:16 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 06:33 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:48 | < Syk> | celmin|mathing|X_X: man you'd hate my guis |
| 06:49 | < Syk> | for a year all my reports were generated via a button called btn |
| 06:49 | < Syk> | :D |
| 06:50 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | ... |
| 06:50 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | That's... just... |
| 06:50 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | There's another program that supports key remapping that does a much, much better job of it. |
| 06:50 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | It doesn't support fn-key combinations, though. |
| 06:51 | < Syk> | celmin|mathing|X_X: then again the reports were basically for me only so it didnt matter |
| 06:51 | < Syk> | heh |
| 06:52 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | Ah, that's not so bad then I guess... :| |
| 06:53 | < celmin|mathing|X_X> | I wish GUIs weren't so hard. :/ |
| 07:26 | | * McMartin plays Professor Layton music while writing up an exceptionally nasty bug resolution report, figures this is appropriate. |
| 07:26 | <~Vornicus> | GUIs are simultaneously amazingly easy and amazingly difficult. |
| 07:27 | <&McMartin> | They are spiderful |
| 07:29 | <~Vornicus> | Getting stuff to happen is pretty easy, getting what you want is somewhat easy, figuring out what you really want? omg impossible. |
| 07:46 | | celmin|mathing|X_X is now known as celticminstrel |
| 08:23 | < Syk> | bblurgh |
| 08:26 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|Zzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 08:38 | < Syk> | i feel really sorry for my coworker |
| 08:38 | < Syk> | she's really bright and everything, but come next week she's going to be managing the entire network |
| 08:39 | < Syk> | she was hired in a tech support role, been here 2 months or so, then cue shitstorm and all of established IT leaving :| |
| 08:52 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 08:52 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 09:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:36 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: youch |
| 09:36 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: best you can do is maybe get some people to document .* |
| 09:36 | <@froztbyte> | or as much as possible |
| 09:36 | <@froztbyte> | but if she survives that pool, she'll be a pretty good admin in the coming years :P |
| 09:39 | < Syk> | yup |
| 09:39 | < Syk> | but yeah |
| 09:39 | < Syk> | i've done all the docs i can |
| 10:36 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 10:43 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 11:00 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 11:00 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 11:07 | | RichardB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 11:07 | | RichardB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has left #code ["Leaving"] |
| 11:36 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 12:59 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 13:13 | <@Azash> | SFW: https://images.4chan.org/g/src/1352363886659.jpg |
| 13:15 | < Syk> | not safe for rational sanity: http://images.4chan.org/g/src/1352365039962.png |
| 13:15 | <@Azash> | Oh dear |
| 13:19 | < Tarinaky> | What'd the hotkey to stop a job on NIX? |
| 13:19 | < Tarinaky> | So you can background it? |
| 13:19 | < Tarinaky> | I thought it was ^D but apparently not... |
| 13:21 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 13:23 | <@Azash> | All I know is ^S to stop terminal output |
| 13:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: ^Z |
| 13:24 | < Syk> | i didnt realise ^Z was stop for the longest time |
| 13:24 | < ToxicFrog> | ^Z suspend ^S stop output ^Q resume output ^C SIGINT ^\ SIGQUIT |
| 13:24 | < Syk> | then i realised that i had all these suspended processes |
| 13:25 | < ToxicFrog> | Heh |
| 13:25 | < Syk> | and i was like wtf |
| 13:25 | < Syk> | bloody >use fg to return to nano |
| 13:25 | | * Azash wonders how to do ^\ on his Finnish keyboard |
| 13:25 | < ToxicFrog> | When I was a kid I'd use ^Z to stop things and then try to quit and it's say "you have stopped jobs!" |
| 13:25 | < ToxicFrog> | *it'd |
| 13:29 | < Syk> | heh |
| 13:29 | < Syk> | ugh i should go to the dentist |
| 13:29 | < Syk> | but they are scary :< |
| 13:30 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:40 | <@Azash> | Syk: I have some tongs here, dental care free of charge |
| 13:40 | < Syk> | D: |
| 13:41 | < Syk> | i have two big cavities between teef, plus a filling falling out and etc |
| 13:42 | <@Azash> | Aw :( |
| 13:43 | < Syk> | yeah |
| 13:43 | < Syk> | and the dentist here isnt too great |
| 13:44 | < Syk> | it's not pain, more fillings disintegrating than anything else |
| 13:44 | <@Azash> | I'd probably need fillings in half my teeth >_> |
| 13:45 | | celmin|Zzzzzzzzzzzz is now known as celticminstrel |
| 13:45 | < Syk> | ugh i hate that all the good comedy is in the UK |
| 13:45 | < Syk> | getting my mitts on Mock The Week is hard :| |
| 13:45 | <@Azash> | Police Squad! disagrees |
| 13:46 | <@Azash> | (It hasn't been relevant in a while though) |
| 13:46 | < Syk> | lol |
| 13:46 | < celticminstrel> | I'd assume ^\ is done the same was as \, just with added control key. |
| 13:46 | <@Azash> | Syk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1PgJaaaGT4 |
| 13:46 | < celticminstrel> | No matter where \ happens to be. |
| 13:47 | < Syk> | IT Crowd, BlackAdder, QI, Brittas Empire, Mock the Week <3 |
| 13:47 | <@Azash> | celticminstrel: Ctrl-AltGr-+ doesn't work very well for me unfortunately |
| 13:47 | <@Azash> | Syk: QI \o/ |
| 13:47 | < celticminstrel> | Doesn't send a SIGQUIT? |
| 13:48 | <@Azash> | Just puts a \ into stdio |
| 13:49 | < celticminstrel> | Try the keys near enter? |
| 13:49 | < celticminstrel> | Excluding things like ? and a |
| 13:49 | < celticminstrel> | ^? |
| 13:50 | <@Azash> | ^? here |
| 13:50 | < celticminstrel> | Fun! |
| 13:51 | < celticminstrel> | Not at all what I would've expected. |
| 13:51 | < Syk> | "This isn't like a pot calling a kettle black, this is a kettle calling a kettle a kettle." |
| 13:51 | < celticminstrel> | What. |
| 13:52 | < Syk> | Mock The Week contestants saying they shouldn't make fun of a nerdy politician |
| 14:07 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 14:44 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 14:50 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 14:54 | < Syk> | hmm. |
| 14:54 | < Syk> | python + twisted seems to do asynchronous a bit differently |
| 14:54 | < Syk> | than what i'm used to in node.js |
| 14:54 | < Syk> | BUT that's a good thing |
| 14:55 | < Syk> | as node.js is NESTED FUNCTIONS OF DOOM |
| 15:00 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 15:01 | <@froztbyte> | yes well |
| 15:01 | <@froztbyte> | nodejs was written by neckbeards or something |
| 15:03 | <@froztbyte> | (as you may be able to tell, I'm not a fan) |
| 15:04 | | * froztbyte has spent the day dealing with routers, and perl, and expect, and tcl, and shitty bash, and cleaning up tickets |
| 15:05 | < Syk> | froztbyte: "node.js is written by JS-everywhere hipsters" is probably more correct |
| 15:05 | < Tarinaky> | Python + Twisted also has the issue that Python doesn't really do multi-threading. |
| 15:05 | < Syk> | "JS on the client! JS on the server! JS on your fridge, on your toaster, in your car!" |
| 15:06 | < Syk> | Tarinaky: so you'd have to run an instance per core w/ affinity set + load balancer? |
| 15:07 | <@froztbyte> | yes |
| 15:07 | <@froztbyte> | but whether that's a problem depends on other things |
| 15:07 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-bb544093.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:07 | < Tarinaky> | Python can't run more than 1 thread at a time. It can spawn and run multiple processes however. |
| 15:07 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 15:08 | <@froztbyte> | there is also http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/api/twisted.internet.threads.deferToT hread.html |
| 15:08 | < Tarinaky> | It can also spawn multiple threads. |
| 15:08 | <@froztbyte> | which, of course, should be approached with due caution |
| 15:08 | < Tarinaky> | It just can't run them concurrently. |
| 15:08 | < Tarinaky> | Which makes them a little bit pointless. |
| 15:08 | < Syk> | well |
| 15:08 | < Syk> | unless you're doing some rediculous lifting |
| 15:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: it makes organizing stuff that blocks on IO much easier, is the thing. |
| 15:09 | < Syk> | it shouldn't need to roflscale |
| 15:09 | < Tarinaky> | A little bit pointless isn't the same as completely. |
| 15:09 | < Syk> | and if you need to roflscale, you probably have load balancers and multiple servers anyway |
| 15:10 | < Syk> | bah brb |
| 15:10 | < Tarinaky> | Also. I need to go home and do my laundry, otherwise I would totally pester you guys to help me with my AI homework. |
| 15:10 | < Tarinaky> | So... err... bbl. |
| 15:12 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-03ef0659.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 15:26 | < Syk> | Tarinaky: lol i just went and did laundry |
| 15:26 | < Syk> | (although it's not my own0 |
| 15:26 | < Syk> | "hey syka we know you have a staff meeting at 7:30am tomorrow, but could you hang out the clothes that finish at 11:30pm?" |
| 15:27 | < RichyB> | #code needs to synchronise its laundry-doing so that we can spend more time shouting at each other on IRC! |
| 15:27 | <@Azash> | I'm sure we'll end up doing that naturally after chatting in the same channel for a while |
| 15:29 | < Syk> | well i do my washing every 2 weeks |
| 15:30 | | * Syk has a pile of tshirts from the Valve Store and Thinkgeek |
| 15:30 | < Syk> | i could literally wear two shirts a day for two weeks and the only downside would be going into the non-Valve ones |
| 15:31 | < Syk> | i do need more socks, though. |
| 15:31 | | * Syk plots her sock availability on a graph, it has a clear reduction over time |
| 15:32 | <@froztbyte> | I need more pants |
| 15:33 | <@froztbyte> | down to two available longpants, and a rapidly declining amount of shorts/baggies |
| 15:33 | | * Tamber pelts Syk with a ?cotton sock? |
| 15:33 | <@froztbyte> | t-shirts (lulzy and not) I have eyond ample supply of |
| 15:33 | < Syk> | i have to wear two pairs of socks |
| 15:33 | < Syk> | because i have boots that are slightly too big |
| 15:33 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 15:33 | | * AnnoDomini throws a live fluffy wambler at Tamber. |
| 15:33 | <@froztbyte> | that must make your feet boil |
| 15:33 | | * Tamber decapitated. |
| 15:33 | < Syk> | and for three and a half years i have not bothered to replace them |
| 15:34 | < Syk> | froztbyte: today it was 41C |
| 15:34 | < Syk> | it honestly could not make a difference |
| 15:34 | <@froztbyte> | oh it could. |
| 15:34 | <@froztbyte> | well, for me |
| 15:34 | < Syk> | tbh my feet are the coolest part of me |
| 15:34 | <@froztbyte> | mine heat up super easy |
| 15:34 | < Syk> | because they're not in view of the sun |
| 15:34 | < Syk> | and its burnination |
| 15:34 | <@froztbyte> | just with shoes on, not even in sun |
| 15:35 | < AnnoDomini> | (The spinning live fluffy wambler hits Tamber in the head, shattering the skull and tearing the brain. A tendon has been torn! Tamber loses consciousness.) |
| 15:35 | <@Tamber> | :p |
| 15:35 | < Syk> | heh |
| 15:35 | < Syk> | tomorrow is my last working day! |
| 15:36 | < Syk> | then i have a week of management training last week |
| 15:36 | < Syk> | as my final week |
| 15:36 | < Syk> | lol |
| 15:36 | < Syk> | uh next week rather |
| 15:36 | < Syk> | and then I am unemployed (whoo!) |
| 15:40 | | Syk [the@Nightstar-7d752098.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 15:40 | | Syka [the@Nightstar-7d752098.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #code |
| 15:41 | < Syka> | okay so |
| 15:41 | < Syka> | i lagged out there |
| 15:41 | < Syka> | did anyone say anything |
| 15:41 | <@Tamber> | Nope. |
| 15:41 | <@Tamber> | Other than you, anyway. |
| 15:41 | < Syka> | but yes |
| 15:41 | < Syka> | i will be unemployed in a week \o/ |
| 15:42 | < Tarinaky> | On second thoughts my laundry can wait for Saturday. |
| 15:42 | < Tarinaky> | I am knackered. |
| 15:42 | < Syka> | but yeah work is utterly screwed |
| 15:42 | < Syka> | they have already interviewed candidate for the IT manager |
| 15:42 | < Syka> | role |
| 15:42 | < Tarinaky> | Is anyone here familiar with the Norvig AI book? |
| 15:43 | < Tarinaky> | Blue cover, has a picture of Alan Turing on it iirc. |
| 15:43 | < Syka> | since literally no IT staff were included in this process, I'm inclined to think it's a friend of one of the directors. |
| 15:43 | < Syka> | this will be entertaining. |
| 15:43 | < Tarinaky> | "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach" is the title. |
| 15:44 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 15:44 | <@Tamber> | My copy has a red cover. |
| 15:44 | < Syka> | I guess I don't have to worry about a deployment plan for my new website, because I am half betting that they will dispose of all my software and buy off-the-shelf trash |
| 15:44 | < ToxicFrog> | That was in fact the text for my undergrad AI course. |
| 15:44 | <@Tamber> | I should find some time to sit down and actually /read/ it. |
| 15:44 | < Syka> | I don't have any AI books :< |
| 15:44 | < Tarinaky> | My Assignment wants me to design and discuss a heuristic for a problem. |
| 15:44 | < Tarinaky> | I shot off an email to my lecturer asking for a clarification about what I'm meant to be discussing. |
| 15:45 | < Tarinaky> | He suggested that everything was in Chapter 3 (informed searches) |
| 15:45 | | Syka is now known as syksleep |
| 15:45 | <@TheWatcher> | ... that's actually kinda amusing >.> |
| 15:45 | < Tarinaky> | The only two properties I can see mentioned in chapter 3 are monotonicity and thingie-just-gone-from-my-head-begins-with-a |
| 15:46 | < Tarinaky> | Admissibility |
| 15:46 | < Tarinaky> | Stating that something is monotone/consistent and admissible does not seem worth 10 marks/. |
| 15:46 | | * syksleep plays a nice game of chess with Tarinaky, we shouldn't bother with all this AI stuff, we all know it's too dangerous. :P |
| 15:47 | < Tarinaky> | Any suggestions on whether I am overthinking this? |
| 15:47 | < syksleep> | lest we nuke ourselves, or someone gives Ask Jeeves sentience |
| 15:47 | < Tarinaky> | I replied to my lecturer but I've not heard back yet. |
| 15:47 | <@Tamber> | Syk: If someone did, who'd notice? |
| 15:47 | <@Tamber> | :p |
| 15:47 | < syksleep> | Tamber: Ask still has a userbase! |
| 15:47 | <@Tamber> | All two of them? |
| 15:48 | < syksleep> | just because it's single digits doesn't mean they're any less of a competitor. |
| 15:48 | <@Tamber> | (I know; it's 3rd most-used.) |
| 15:49 | < syksleep> | 1. Google, 2. Bing, 3. Ask, 4. DuckDuckGo, 5. Bashing head against keyboard in URL bar, 6. Yahoo! |
| 15:49 | <@Tamber> | It's Gargle with something like 90-ish% share, Bing with 5%, and then the rest is Ask and a few others that used to be popular but aren't any more; I think. |
| 15:49 | <@Tamber> | ha |
| 15:49 | < syksleep> | i'm pretty sure those adware virus things with search engines that masquerade as Google lookalikes have more market share than Yahoo |
| 15:50 | <@Tamber> | People still use Altavista. |
| 15:50 | < syksleep> | didnt that get closed down |
| 15:50 | <@Tamber> | "Copyright (C) 2012 Yahoo! " |
| 15:50 | <@Tamber> | So, yeah, probably. |
| 15:50 | < syksleep> | (C) Yahoo!7 |
| 15:50 | < syksleep> | fucking yahoo!7 |
| 15:51 | <@Tamber> | 7? |
| 15:51 | < syksleep> | 7 Network |
| 15:51 | <@Tamber> | Oh. |
| 15:51 | < syksleep> | imagine a very small version of the Murdoch Empire |
| 15:52 | < ToxicFrog> | That's chapter 4 in my copy |
| 15:52 | <@Tamber> | Anyway, I should stop making you rant about zombies, and get food. |
| 15:52 | < Tarinaky> | I think my crappy O2 cellphone uses Yahoo as the default search engine. |
| 15:52 | < syksleep> | i need to sleep as well |
| 15:52 | < syksleep> | its midnight |
| 15:52 | < syksleep> | and i need to be up in 6h |
| 15:53 | < syksleep> | oh i got a SIM card today |
| 15:53 | < syksleep> | prepaid set up SIM = $2 |
| 15:53 | < syksleep> | blank SIM for existing customers = $10 |
| 15:53 | < syksleep> | free market in action people |
| 15:54 | < Tarinaky> | blank SIM/ |
| 15:55 | < syksleep> | for transferring an account to |
| 15:55 | < syksleep> | eg. if you have an iPhone 5 that takes a nano-SIM |
| 15:55 | < syksleep> | you purchase a blank nano SIM, call up your local friendly communications monopoly, and ask them to switch your number to the SIM card via the ID on it |
| 15:55 | < Tarinaky> | Is there any situation you'd do that which doesn't involve Apple products and their famous interoperability with standard form factors and designs? |
| 15:56 | < syksleep> | unfortunately yes |
| 15:56 | < syksleep> | the Nexus 4 uses MicroSIM now |
| 15:56 | < Tarinaky> | Also, isn't it possible to change a SIM to nanoSIM by shaving part of the card off? |
| 15:56 | < syksleep> | yes and no |
| 15:57 | < syksleep> | it depends on the age of the SIM |
| 15:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: Saying that it's monotonic and admissible is probably not worth 10 marks, but proving that it is probably is. |
| 15:57 | < Tarinaky> | And why don't you just get a new prepaid SIM and have your number changed to the new SIM? |
| 15:57 | < syksleep> | old SIMs have stuff in the plastic |
| 15:57 | < Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: But this isn't a maths course. |
| 15:57 | < syksleep> | new ones don't |
| 15:57 | < Tarinaky> | I see. |
| 15:57 | < syksleep> | Tarinaky: prepaid is for new customers |
| 15:57 | < ToxicFrog> | ........yes, and? |
| 15:57 | < syksleep> | eg. brand new number |
| 15:57 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] |
| 15:58 | < syksleep> | so it |
| 15:58 | < Tarinaky> | syksleep: Yes. But most phone companies allow you to bring your number across from your old account. |
| 15:58 | < syksleep> | yes, except then you'd have to buy a $10 blank SIM |
| 15:58 | < Tarinaky> | So become new customer. Have number from old account transferred to your new account. |
| 15:58 | < syksleep> | and get the number transferred to that SIM |
| 15:59 | < ToxicFrog> | You could also determine and discuss the branching factor of your heuristic (which also involves math, horrors) |
| 15:59 | < Tarinaky> | That's... not how it worked last time I bought a phone... back when they were steam powered. |
| 15:59 | < Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: The heuristic just determines which branches are evaluated first though. |
| 15:59 | < syksleep> | if the SIM has a number on it, it can't be reused |
| 15:59 | < syksleep> | say Telstra anyway |
| 15:59 | < Tarinaky> | The SIM card has a SIM number on it though. |
| 15:59 | <@TheWatcher> | They're bullshitting |
| 15:59 | < syksleep> | the prepaid SIMs have a phone number already set in it |
| 15:59 | < Tarinaky> | Not a phone number. |
| 15:59 | < syksleep> | TheWatcher: actually, I believe them |
| 16:00 | < ToxicFrog> | And, of course, you can discuss your thought process in designing the heuristic |
| 16:00 | < syksleep> | because Telstra probably don't have the technology to use SQL UPDATE commands |
| 16:00 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes, it does. How does that contradict my suggestion? |
| 16:00 | < Tarinaky> | The cell company have a database that links cell-phone numbers to account numbers to actual hardware/SIM addresses |
| 16:00 | < Tarinaky> | That's like saying you can't have an IP address moved from one NIC to another. |
| 16:00 | | * syksleep shrug |
| 16:01 | <@Tamber> | Perhaps it's less "can't", more "won't" |
| 16:01 | < syksleep> | well, they refuse to do it anyway |
| 16:01 | < syksleep> | they say NOPE CAN'T DO IT |
| 16:01 | < Tarinaky> | Go to another company and ask if you can keep your old number if you become their customer? |
| 16:01 | < syksleep> | ...hahaha |
| 16:01 | < syksleep> | okay so, if you don't like monopolies |
| 16:01 | < syksleep> | /never/ have a mobile in Australia |
| 16:02 | < Tarinaky> | There's only one mobile operator in Australia? |
| 16:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: I honestly can't figure out either of your objections |
| 16:02 | < syksleep> | Telstra is the only competent wireless provider. Everyone else piggy backs off Optus' network. |
| 16:02 | < syksleep> | Optus thought smartphones were a fad. |
| 16:02 | < syksleep> | AKA they oversold their capacity |
| 16:02 | < Tarinaky> | syksleep: Change twice? |
| 16:02 | < syksleep> | lost tens of thousands of customers |
| 16:03 | < syksleep> | don't service rural areas |
| 16:03 | < Tarinaky> | Anyway. |
| 16:03 | < syksleep> | yeah, if you want reception more than 3km out of a city, you have to have Telstra. |
| 16:03 | < syksleep> | Optus coverage where I am changes literally from room to room |
| 16:03 | < Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: I don't see how determining which branches are evaluated first changes the branching factor of the search space. |
| 16:04 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: the branching factor of the heuristic is not the same as the branching factor of the search space. |
| 16:04 | < syksleep> | which is just lol when people get up here with shiny new iPhones on a shiny new 2 year Optus contract... |
| 16:04 | < Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: I didn't see that mentioned in Chapter 3 >.> |
| 16:04 | < ToxicFrog> | (This is discussed on page 102 of my copy - 4.2.1, "The Effect of Heuristic Accuracy on Performance" - but you appear to have a different edition) |
| 16:05 | < ToxicFrog> | What edition do you have? |
| 16:05 | < Tarinaky> | Wouldn't 4.2.1 be chapter 4? |
| 16:05 | | * syksleep flops to bed, regardless. /o/ |
| 16:05 | < Tarinaky> | With that in mind, I'll try to go through Chapter 4 then >.> |
| 16:06 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes; in my edition "Informed Search" is chapter 4. |
| 16:06 | < Tarinaky> | Confusing. |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | Specifically, Section II (Problem Solving) is divided into Searching (3), Informed Search and Exploration (4), Constraint Satisfaction (5), and Adversarial Search (6) |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | I have the second edition from 2003, incidentally. |
| 16:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Anyways. b*, the effective branching factor of a heuristic, is the branching factor of a uniform tree of depth $d$ containing $N$ nodes, where $d$ is the solution depth and $N$ is the number of nodes expanded in finding a solution. |
| 16:09 | < Tarinaky> | Third Edition. |
| 16:09 | < ToxicFrog> | A perfect heuristic will have a b* of 1. |
| 16:10 | < Tarinaky> | Ahhh. |
| 16:10 | < Tarinaky> | I think that might have been mentioned then. |
| 16:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Heuristics don't have a "true" b* because it'll vary for different problems, but the b* of most heuristics doesn't vary much across problems and thus it is a useful evaluation of a heuristic once determined experimentally. |
| 16:13 | < Tarinaky> | I'm going to shower and contemplate food. |
| 16:14 | | * iospace looks at her console output, head tilts |
| 16:14 | < Tarinaky> | But I don't see how I can be expected to prove monotonicity without drawing heavily on my Maths modules :p |
| 16:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Anyways. That's what comes immediately to mind. Discuss the design process for the heuristic, including your analysis of the problem (there's a whole section on this called "inventing admissible heuristic functions"); show, don't just tell, that it is monotonic and admissible; and evaluate its performance compared to other heuristics and brute-force techniques using b* and/or any other measure you deem appropriate. |
| 16:14 | < ToxicFrog> | You probably can't. Why is this a problem? |
| 16:14 | < Tarinaky> | It implies this isn't what the lecturer is trying to ask. |
| 16:15 | < ToxicFrog> | If you're reading the section on informed search it's already math all up in the evening. |
| 16:15 | < ToxicFrog> | *everying. |
| 16:15 | < ToxicFrog> | *everything agh fuck |
| 16:15 | < ToxicFrog> | My algorithms, theory of computation, AI, and game theory courses were all math-heavy. |
| 16:16 | < Tarinaky> | The algoritm module has some stuff on Big-O notation... which isn't really very math heavy. |
| 16:17 | < Tarinaky> | My AI module just has some branching factor... which again, is just a polynomial. |
| 16:17 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 16:17 | < Tarinaky> | I don't see how any of this is math heavy >.< |
| 16:17 | < Tarinaky> | Aside from acknoledging that there's some math here. |
| 16:21 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@31356A.8FA1FE.CF2CE9.D6CF77] has joined #code |
| 16:22 | < ToxicFrog> | Big-O itself isn't math heavy, but proving the big-O/omega/theta time and space complexity classes for an algorithm can be. |
| 16:22 | < ToxicFrog> | (hell, the chapter on informed search has sample proofs right there) |
| 16:23 | | * iospace kicks her code |
| 16:31 | < iospace> | i hope i didn't end up shocking the board D: |
| 16:32 | < iospace> | nope, didn't shock the board |
| 16:32 | < Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: And we aren't required to prove it. |
| 16:32 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 16:32 | < Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: We're only required to look at a collection of loops and state it. |
| 16:34 | < Tarinaky> | One of the AI questions is something like: "Is the search space 5, 5n, or 5^n?" |
| 16:34 | < Tarinaky> | Err *complexity of the search space. |
| 16:34 | < Tarinaky> | I can't brain or remember. |
| 16:34 | < Tarinaky> | I'm hungry. |
| 16:43 | | * Pandemic feeds Tarinaky |
| 16:43 | < Pandemic> | any better now? |
| 16:48 | < iospace> | phew |
| 16:48 | < iospace> | clean build fixed it ^_^ |
| 16:55 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-b43e074a.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 16:55 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 16:58 | < Tarinaky> | Pandemic: If only I had a guy to feed me irl :p |
| 17:16 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@31356A.8FA1FE.CF2CE9.D6CF77] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:18 | < Pandemic> | I'm sure you can find one |
| 17:18 | < Pandemic> | we are rather easy to con out of a lunch if the right "charm" are used in the correct way |
| 17:21 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 17:23 | < iospace> | ... |
| 17:23 | < iospace> | ok, why you no work D: |
| 17:25 | < iospace> | oh! |
| 17:25 | < iospace> | there we go |
| 17:30 | <@Azash> | Clean building seems to be the word of the year for you, eh? :P |
| 17:31 | < iospace> | sadly :< |
| 17:31 | < iospace> | namely because i was fussing with so many inf files and shit Dx |
| 17:33 | <@Azash> | Aw |
| 17:34 | < iospace> | yeah |
| 17:35 | < iospace> | there's over 30k files involved in each build more or less |
| 17:36 | < iospace> | 37764 files over 8397 folders |
| 17:40 | | * iospace abuses 2's compliment :P |
| 17:40 | < iospace> | if i need to get all F's, (UINTN)(-1) :P |
| 17:43 | <@Azash> | \o/ |
| 17:49 | < iospace> | the rule of thumb i have is that no magic numbers outside of -1, 0, and 1 |
| 17:53 | <@Azash> | You'll hate fast invsqrt then |
| 17:59 | | * Vornicus gives iospace e, pi, and 2, because those are kind of important. |
| 18:00 | < iospace> | Azash: i said rule of thumb, not completely binding |
| 18:00 | < iospace> | though back in our C++/Java classes that was the rule, no exceptions |
| 18:06 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:11 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 18:16 | | Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:20 | < Tarinaky> | A Bayesian Monte Carlo Markov Chain sounds hilarious[4~[4~. |
| 18:22 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:33 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 18:33 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 18:36 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-b43e074a.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 19:18 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:19 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 20:38 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has joined #code |
| 20:38 | | Courage [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:12 | | Vornucopia [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-a60eef95.ct.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Thu Nov 08 21:21:17 2012 |
| --- Log opened Thu Nov 08 21:21:37 2012 |
| 21:21 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-3762b576.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 21:21 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 33 nicks [8 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 25 normal] |
| 21:21 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 21:22 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 38 secs |
| 21:22 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 21:26 | < iospace> | ugh, i hate having to do a while(TRUE) loop |
| 21:27 | <&McMartin> | Continue until logic is convolved inside out and the realms of madness leak over to become reality |
| 21:31 | <@TheWatcher> | Someone mentioned perl? |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | No, actually, C with Recursion |
| 21:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, righto. |
| 21:32 | | * TheWatcher goes back to swearing at php |
| 21:32 | | * McMartin goes to look up the proper quote |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | Exercise 4-13. Write a function reverse(s) which reverses the string s by turning the mind inside out, converting madness into reality and opening the door to allow the Old Ones to creep forth once more from their sunken crypt beyond time. |
| 21:33 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, that one, yeah |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | void Cthulhu (int Ia) { if (Ia/10) Cthulhu (IA/10); putchar /* ftagn! */ (Ia % 10 + '0'); } // neblod zin! |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | Apparently, R'lyeh C is case-insensitive. A foul monstrosity indeed |
| 21:43 | < iospace> | ... |
| 21:43 | | * iospace eyes McMartin |
| 21:46 | < iospace> | McMartin: at least get your variables right... |
| 21:47 | <@TheWatcher> | iospace: http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html |
| 21:48 | < iospace> | point stands! |
| 21:48 | < iospace> | IA is uninitialized! |
| 21:48 | < iospace> | Ia is :P |
| 21:49 | < iospace> | (You have to realize i'm used to warnings as errors) |
| 22:15 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:19 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:25 | <&McMartin> | "Keener news-followers, however, wondered at the events of the winter of 1927-28, the abnormally large number of calls placed upon the stack, the swiftness with which that list was sorted, the disturbing lack of heap allocation throughout the proceedings, and the secrecy surrounding the affair." |
| 22:28 | < celticminstrel> | Is it correct that "loops, conditionals, and arithmetic" make a language Turing-complete? |
| 22:28 | < celticminstrel> | (Or replace "loops" with "goto statements".) |
| 22:28 | < celticminstrel> | Something seems odd about the statement. |
| 22:28 | < celticminstrel> | Not sure whether it's the content or the phrasing or what. |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | You need to qualify "loops" with "while loops", I believe |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | Loops of the form "for x in y" are not sufficient |
| 22:29 | < celticminstrel> | Oh huh. |
| 22:29 | < celticminstrel> | And arithmetic is correct too? |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | You need something to do the conditionals on, yeah |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | The requirement is "can you build a Turing machine with the language" |
| 22:30 | < celticminstrel> | So "while loops, conditionals, and arithmetic". |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | Arithmetic is a little too precise but I can't come up with a better generality without deploying abstract algebra. |
| 22:31 | < celticminstrel> | Does a C-style for-loop count as a while-loop? |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | The two are equivalent |
| 22:31 | < celticminstrel> | Thought it might. |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | for (a; b; c) { d(); } is equivalent to { a; while (b) { d(); c; } } |
| 22:32 | < celticminstrel> | Mhm. |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | And, in the other direction while (a) { b(); } is for (;a;) { b(); } |
| 22:33 | < celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 22:33 | < celticminstrel> | Is "arithmetic" different from how it's normally stated? |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | Probably not |
| 22:33 | < celticminstrel> | Wonder why it sounded odd then. Ah well. |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | But the requirement is "implement a Turing machine" which I think you can do with a sufficiently cunning lookup table |
| 22:34 | < celticminstrel> | So in a sense, any "group operation" would do. |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 22:36 | <&McMartin> | But I don't know what the broadest requirement is offhand |
| 22:43 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 22:45 | < syksleep> | whoo last day today |
| 22:46 | < syksleep> | aaaand my nvidia drivers updated and nothing 3D accelerated will launch |
| 22:48 | < syksleep> | oh well shower time \o\ |
| 23:10 | | Vornucopia [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-a60eef95.ct.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Page closed] |
| 23:33 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 23:33 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Fri Nov 09 00:00:31 2012 |