| --- Log opened Mon Sep 03 00:00:16 2012 |
| 00:00 | <&Derakon> | If only it could fix the threading issue. |
| 00:02 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm not actually familiar with python threads, what's the problem with it? |
| 00:03 | <&Derakon> | There's something called the Global Interpreter Lock. |
| 00:03 | <&Derakon> | In short, only one thread can be executing actual Python code at a time. |
| 00:03 | <@TheWatcher> | Ow. :/ |
| 00:03 | <&Derakon> | So threading only benefits you by letting you have multiple execution contexts, or if you drop down to C. |
| 00:05 | <@TheWatcher> | And that's true in 3.x too? :( |
| 00:05 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 00:05 | <&Derakon> | Looks like it. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1222929/gil-in-python-3-1 |
| 00:07 | < ToxicFrog> | Isn't that fixed in some of the non-reference implementations? |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | Yes. |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | But they tend to use non-thread-based multiprogramming. |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | To be fair, this is an entirely reasonable thing to do, because death to threads. |
| 00:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: thanks. |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | Stackless and Twisted Python both use different ways of getting safe Python multiprogramming, IIRC. |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | And Twisted is what EVE's servers are written in, so clearly it can scale... |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | Also, I have figured out why the Modern GL Tutorial stuff isn't running on Osmium. |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | Becuase it's inexplicably demanding OpenGL 3.3 contexts to draw a single fucking triangle. |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | Instead of requiring 2.0 or 2.1 and demanding extensions as needed. |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | So as this laptop can't do hardware instancing or the ARB-style transform feedback, it cannot Draw A Fucking Triangle using their framework. |
| 00:11 | <&McMartin> | GLSL has also advanced but it isn't clear they're using stuff after 3.0 in it |
| 00:11 | <&McMartin> | (And Osmium uses 3.0's GLSL, despite being 2.1) |
| 00:25 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:56 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:05 | | Reiv [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:45 | | Orthia [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 02:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | There's so much misinformation about the gil. It is not, in fact, necessary to prevent segfaults. Yes, it's much easier than throwing locks on everything, but that's quite doable. The real issue is the refcounting GC: Many objects will get touched on a fairly constant basis, which is a bottleneck to threading |
| 02:13 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:13 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 02:13 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 02:16 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:23 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 02:23 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 02:29 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 02:29 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 02:40 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 02:57 | | Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-6292e6c3.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:58 | | Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-56dbba0f.in.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: jeez.] |
| 03:03 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 122 seconds] |
| 03:04 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 03:04 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 03:15 | | Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-56dbba0f.in.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 03:15 | | mode/#code [+o Alek] by ChanServ |
| 03:35 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:35 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 03:35 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 05:05 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 05:35 | | Orthia [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:20 | | Orthia [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 06:28 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 06:48 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:41 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-05577424.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 08:04 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-05577424.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 08:04 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody] by ChanServ |
| 08:27 | | * AnnoDomini wonders how much work it would be to develop non-isometric, original-like graphics for freecol. |
| 08:27 | <~Vornicus> | How many graphics assets are there? |
| 08:28 | <~Vornicus> | My settlers stuff took me about 2 weeks once I had my toolchain set up. |
| 08:28 | <~Vornicus> | They're also very, very simple, so. |
| 08:28 | <~Vornicus> | (I am also Not An Artist) |
| 08:29 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 08:29 | < AnnoDomini> | Oh, I'm pretty sure I could rip-off the original sets without much difficulty. This is straightforward. |
| 08:30 | < AnnoDomini> | The problem I see here is actually making them work with the game. |
| 08:30 | < AnnoDomini> | Since the developers don't seem to foresee a need for non-isometric graphics. |
| 08:30 | < AnnoDomini> | Though maybe if a non-isometric set surfaced, they would have some motivation? :P |
| 08:31 | <~Vornicus> | I see. |
| 08:31 | <~Vornicus> | Well... building a thing that draws a square tilemap is in a lot of ways easier than one that does isometric, especially if there are "tall" things |
| 08:32 | < AnnoDomini> | I see. |
| 08:35 | <~Vornicus> | This said, there's a fair number of control and worldgen issues that will need to be handled when you switch to square as opposed to isometric. |
| 08:35 | < AnnoDomini> | Worldgen? Why? |
| 08:36 | <~Vornicus> | What shape are the edges of the world in Civ 1? In Civ 2? |
| 08:36 | < AnnoDomini> | Ah! |
| 08:47 | <~Vornicus> | Now of course you /can/ gen worlds for one and use graphics for the other - OTTD and Sim City come to mind where technically you could have either type of graphics - but when the world is round, doing so can be awkward |
| 08:55 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 08:56 | <~Vornicus> | (because people expect the north pole to be "up" and then if you've done square worldgen and projected into isometric, north is "up-right" or "up-left" depending on how you did it) |
| 09:08 | < AnnoDomini> | I wonder how you'd do a realistic-ish round world rendered in 2D. |
| 09:08 | < AnnoDomini> | Some kind of proximity-to-pole-based tile-skipping? |
| 09:30 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-6292e6c3.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 10:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:32 | <~Vornicus> | ask rham |
| 10:32 | <~Vornicus> | or better yet don't |
| 10:32 | <~Vornicus> | you'll get only gibbering. |
| 11:23 | < AnnoDomini> | Heh. |
| 12:58 | < Reiver> | hm |
| 12:58 | < Reiver> | isometric with wrapping left to right. |
| 12:59 | < Reiver> | So equators have much further to trek than poles. |
| 12:59 | < Reiver> | How you handle vertical, mind... |
| 13:02 | | froztbyte [froztbyte@B19C04.9D2D7E.A788A9.8EAA6C] has joined #code |
| 14:10 | < AnnoDomini> | Well, you could do wrapping cube. |
| 15:09 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:18 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 15:18 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 16:06 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 17:13 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 17:16 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 17:22 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Well, most things get better when I kick them!] |
| 19:02 | <~Vornicus> | cube ore healpixish are good but they cause problems drawing when you're near a corner. |
| 19:36 | <~Vornicus> | You could make the world so big that you can't get two corners in view at the same time, and have several different arts for various shapes |
| 19:40 | < gnolam> | AnnoDomini: you are too educated stupid to understand nature's harmonic simultaneous wrapping cube. |
| 19:40 | < AnnoDomini> | Four simultaneous cubes! |
| 19:59 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 19:59 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 20:04 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:31 | | gnolam_ [lenin@Nightstar-ccbf4b44.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #code |
| 21:33 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-ccbf4b44.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:34 | | gnolam_ is now known as gnolam |
| 22:13 | | * AnnoDomini has whoever wrote the pathing algorithm for Colonization shot. |
| 22:34 | < ToxicFrog> | Fuck character encodings |
| 22:34 | < ToxicFrog> | Fuck java |
| 22:34 | < ToxicFrog> | And fuck java again |
| 23:37 | <&Derakon> | Whelp, guess I should write a style guide for Pyrel now. |
| 23:38 | <&Derakon> | Kinda weird how Bitbucket wikis aren't editable through a web interface. They're in Mercurial repos instead. |
| 23:39 | <&Derakon> | So there's no way AFAICT to preview changes unless you have the appropriate server software installed on your dev machine. |
| --- Log closed Mon Sep 03 23:42:18 2012 |
| --- Log opened Mon Sep 03 23:42:58 2012 |
| 23:42 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-3762b576.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 23:42 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 27 nicks [6 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal] |
| 23:42 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 23:43 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 38 secs |
| --- Log closed Tue Sep 04 00:00:51 2012 |