| --- Log opened Tue Sep 04 00:00:51 2012 |
| 00:02 | | iospace is now known as io|T_T |
| 00:16 | <&Derakon> | Would appreciate feedback. https://bitbucket.org/derakon/pyrel/wiki/StyleGuide |
| 00:17 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 00:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:25 | | * TheWatcher[T-2] will have a look at it tomorrow, and see if he can suggest anything |
| 00:26 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-86656b6c.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code |
| 00:27 | <&McMartin> | Looks like a decent start, though the grammer in "In Brief" is so messed up I can't tell what you're even trying to say. |
| 00:27 | <&McMartin> | *grammar |
| 00:28 | <&Derakon> | Thanks. |
| 00:28 | <&Derakon> | I'll fix that up. |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | Internet laws remain in force |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | The first bullet point in particular |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | The rest is OK but I'm getting a weird feeling like person is inconsistent. |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | But I can't prove that it is in detail, I'm just getting weird feelings about it - you're going between imperative ("You") and then adding an editorial "we" that might be better passive. |
| 00:28 | <&Derakon> | This is almost literally a first draft, and I wasn't really keeping voice in mind. |
| 00:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:29 | <&Derakon> | "First use a style that makes sense for your section of code. Then, if possible, match the style of any existing code in the area you're modifying. Then, if possible, match the style of the rest of the project." How's that? |
| 00:31 | <&McMartin> | Readable, but now that's questionable as to whether you're going to be having a style guide at all |
| 00:31 | | * Derakon discovers all kinds of problems in the indentation example. |
| 00:32 | <&Derakon> | I think I'll just link to http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#a-foolish-consistency-is-the-hobgoblin- of-little-minds |
| 00:34 | <&Derakon> | "As [link to PEP8] says, says, you should know when to be consistent and when to be inconsistent. The most important thing is that your cod e is readable. Second to that is that its style match the style of the code immediately around that. Least important is that it match the style of the rest of the project. Keep to this style guide whenever it doesn't get in the way of your code making sense." |
| 00:37 | <&McMartin> | Nod |
| 00:38 | <&McMartin> | I might throw in something about how entirely new code should try harder to match the project style guide |
| 00:38 | <&Derakon> | I thought of having a "That doesn't mean that when you start a new module you get to pick whatever style you want", but that seemed needlessly accusatory. |
| 00:38 | < RichyB> | I would throw in something about how failure to follow PEP-8 results in lizards flaying your eyeballs. |
| 00:38 | <&Derakon> | RichyB: that's the third bullet point. |
| 00:38 | <&Derakon> | This document is mostly about how Pyrel doesn't exactly match PEP8. |
| 00:39 | < RichyB> | More emphatic, though. |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | The 80-column limit makes life difficult for a lot of things. |
| 00:39 | <&Derakon> | Tough. |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | Wait, who is that at? |
| 00:40 | <&Derakon> | Oh, wait, sorry. |
| 00:40 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, Pyrel's is "try to keep under 80 characters as much as possible". |
| 00:40 | <&Derakon> | I thought you were talking to me. |
| 00:40 | <&Derakon> | PEP8 is considerably more strict. |
| 00:41 | <&Derakon> | One of the reasons I gave up on using the PEP8 validator. |
| 00:41 | <&Derakon> | (The other main one being its opinion of where a statement-broken-across-lines should be indented to) |
| 00:44 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 00:52 | <&Derakon> | The first response to the style guide on the Angband forums tried to revive the spaces vs. tabs debate. >.< |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | No. |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | This argument ended years ago. |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | Spaces everywhere, forever, stomping down on the neck of a tab, forever. |
| 00:55 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, I put my foot down. |
| 00:55 | <&Derakon> | His main complaint was having to hit the delete / space key four times instead of the delete / tab key once. |
| 00:56 | <&Derakon> | To which I said "get a better editor". |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | Even NP++ can handle that |
| 01:04 | < rms> | https://twitter.com/draxar/status/239766758842568704 |
| 01:19 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-86656b6c.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:27 | <&McMartin> | Hmm |
| 01:27 | | * McMartin should do something about the mounting Ophis 2.1 stuff. |
| 01:27 | <~Vornicus> | I still find 4 spaces too wide |
| 01:28 | <&Derakon> | 2 is too narrow for anything but HTML/XML. |
| 01:28 | <&Derakon> | And 3 would be weird. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | I use 2 for everything. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | Except where I use 1. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | 4 is way too wide. |
| 01:30 | <&McMartin> | 2 is OK for Lisp-like languages |
| 01:30 | <&McMartin> | For ML-like languages my usual interest is Pretty Columns over indentation level. |
| 01:37 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
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| 02:06 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 02:06 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
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| 03:01 | | * io|T_T makes McMartin use Z Notation |
| 03:15 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 03:15 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 04:49 | | io|T_T is now known as iospaced |
| 04:52 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK} |
| 05:14 | | Derakon[AFK} is now known as Derakon |
| 05:14 | <&Derakon> | Right, time to stop disrespecting the people who want to contribute to Pyrel, by actually accepting their pull requests. |
| 05:20 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:32 | | Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-56dbba0f.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:40 | | Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-56dbba0f.in.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 05:40 | | mode/#code [+o Alek] by ChanServ |
| 06:08 | | * Derakon eyes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5T81yHkHtI |
| 06:09 | <&Derakon> | Guy takes advantage of a "power cycle while saving" glitch that lets you corrupt memory, to rewrite the game program while the game is playing by shuffling items around. |
| 06:09 | <&Derakon> | (Get some idea of what's going on, then jump to about 10:20 for the payoff) |
| 06:10 | <&Derakon> | "In this run I use items to spell out a program in the gameboy's machine language. After multiple stages of bootstrapping I create a program that allows me to completely rewrite Pokemon Yellow's RAM. I use this ability to insert my own image and song into the game." |
| 06:27 | <&McMartin> | All right |
| 06:27 | | * McMartin learns important CSS tricks, can probably de-frame his stack page |
| 06:27 | <&McMartin> | After that I can consider *incredibly bad ideas* |
| 06:28 | <&McMartin> | Like implementing an entire blog as a single web page, with content hidden away via JS |
| 06:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Loading time.. disabled javascript.. |
| 06:32 | < froztbyte> | I don't know how loading time is really an issue here |
| 06:33 | < froztbyte> | it's fairly easy to determine "I need to load the next batch of text" in a scrolling sort of environment |
| 06:33 | < froztbyte> | and just clicking links will mean only a smaller chunk of text is fetched each time |
| 06:33 | < froztbyte> | even from my side of the world (200ms+ away from most of the internet), neither of those really makes me hate my day |
| 06:36 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You said the "entire blog", implying it's all preloaded into one page |
| 06:38 | < froztbyte> | I understood that differently |
| 06:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | He said* |
| 06:38 | < froztbyte> | with "entire blog" meaning "make the thing not be a giant blob of text which is what it is right now" |
| 06:38 | < froztbyte> | Derakon: that's a hell of a hack |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | Yes, what it is right now is a frameset, with a nav frame on the left and All The Text on the right. |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | It would be nice to be able to re-sort the All The Text and/or the nav frame on the fly. |
| 06:46 | <&McMartin> | It would also be nice to not use framesets, which turns out to work because overflow is per-div. |
| 06:47 | <&McMartin> | Since I can't actually run webapps off that server everything has to be client-side and I'd prefer to keep it reasonably self-contained. |
| 08:25 | | Noah [nbarr@Nightstar-e4b6966f.tn.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 08:42 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 08:45 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 09:55 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-68ed583a.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 10:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:29 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 11:13 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/stack.html finally no longer an abomination in the eyes of Nuggan |
| 11:14 | | * TheWatcher readsup, notes that loading time is a non-issue, was McM's stack blog /already/ loaded all the content in one go |
| 11:14 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 11:14 | <&McMartin> | And now it doesn't use frames, so F5 will actually fucking work |
| 11:15 | <@TheWatcher> | Looks much cleaner |
| 11:15 | <@TheWatcher> | also, you have a duplicate <a name="a_147"> at the end of the page |
| 11:15 | <&McMartin> | Oop. |
| 11:15 | <&McMartin> | OK, the autogenerator is clearly messing up there on the last instance |
| 11:16 | <&McMartin> | I should probably use better gensyms for the anchors anyway, actually |
| 11:17 | <&McMartin> | Um, I do? |
| 11:17 | <&McMartin> | I don't see it in Ctrl-U |
| 11:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm, no, you don't, but Opera's inspector is showing you do |
| 11:17 | <@TheWatcher> | weird |
| 11:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, I note that you don't need to have tha <a name="..." /> at all - if you do <h2 id="a_whatever">name</h2> you get the anchors |
| 11:19 | <&McMartin> | Oh? Nice. |
| 11:19 | | * McMartin doesn't do a lot of web work >_> |
| 11:19 | <@TheWatcher> | Sensible chap. |
| 11:20 | | * TheWatcher pokes Dragonfly, wonders wtf it is playing at |
| 11:22 | | * McMartin updates his stack page to do the id= thing instead of a name. |
| 11:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Looks good :) |
| 11:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Talking of web work... |
| 11:25 | | * TheWatcher returns to the coalface |
| 11:25 | <&McMartin> | I should also improve the anchors and make the input be one file per game instead of one huge fuck-off XML file |
| 11:25 | <&McMartin> | The latter plays poorly with modern version control systems |
| 11:30 | <&jerith> | game.json ;_; |
| 11:30 | <&jerith> | One of our pyweek projects cunningly put all game data in a single big JSON file. |
| 11:31 | <&jerith> | The advantage is that this was also the savegame format and pretty much mapped directly to the in-memory format. |
| 11:31 | <&jerith> | The disadvantage is that nearly half the commits conflicted it. :-/ |
| 12:16 | | gnolaptop [lenin@Nightstar-c091f1b2.eduroam.liu.se] has joined #code |
| 12:32 | < gnolaptop> | And the spectrometer has finally arrived. |
| 12:33 | < gnolaptop> | And its manufacturer has just released another version of it, which could possibly work fine with a simple microcontroller. >_< |
| 13:06 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-cc6253d6.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 13:45 | | gnolaptop [lenin@Nightstar-c091f1b2.eduroam.liu.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Battery running out.] |
| 14:40 | | iospaced is now known as iospace |
| 14:55 | < RichyB> | McMartin: "gensym"? What is this website backed by? |
| 14:56 | | maoranma [nbarr@Nightstar-e4b6966f.tn.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 14:56 | < RichyB> | Are you actually using Hutchentoot or are you just taking the name "gensym" from Lisp by analogy? :) |
| 14:58 | | Noah [nbarr@Nightstar-e4b6966f.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:11 | < froztbyte> | McMartin: /can't/, or /not allowed to/? ;) |
| 15:12 | < froztbyte> | (re running webapps) |
| 15:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Good gods, I'm sick of looking at this code now >.< |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | .... gods fucking damnit |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | This fucking student screwed up half the fucking files in the fucking repository |
| 15:52 | < iospace> | hahaha |
| 15:52 | < iospace> | tell us how you really feel :P |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | $ git revert |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | $ git send-nasty-email |
| 16:09 | <@Tamber> | # git shoot-committer |
| 16:43 | | maoranma [nbarr@Nightstar-e4b6966f.tn.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 16:57 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 16:58 | < ToxicFrog> | eeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 16:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Just got a call from my recruiter at Google |
| 16:58 | < ToxicFrog> | She's writing up the offer now |
| 16:58 | < RichyB> | Win! |
| 16:58 | <@Tamber> | Dancing rodents! \o/ |
| 17:01 | < iospace> | i love the fact that you use wafers instead of pins but pulling boards out of the backplanes is a /royal pain/ |
| 17:01 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: you may work with my friend :P |
| 17:01 | < ToxicFrog> | iospace: are they at the Waterloo office? |
| 17:01 | < iospace> | yup |
| 17:01 | < iospace> | :P |
| 17:02 | < iospace> | also, tack on an "Oh VPX" to my wafer comment |
| 17:14 | < froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: congrats :) |
| 17:14 | < froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: well, possibly prematurely |
| 17:15 | < froztbyte> | which office && position? |
| 17:15 | < froztbyte> | oh, waterloo |
| 17:15 | | AnnoDomini is now known as EnRoute |
| 17:15 | < froztbyte> | iospace: way back when I built my first boards, that was one of my biggest thoughts about it |
| 17:16 | < froztbyte> | iospace: "WHY. IS. THIS. DAMN. IC. SO. LONG. CAN'T. LEVER. IT. OUT." |
| 17:16 | < froztbyte> | and then you get to use like 3 different hackjobs with tweakers or whatever |
| 17:16 | < ToxicFrog> | froztbyte: waterloo, software engineer. Unclear what team as yet; Chromeos seems likely. |
| 17:16 | < froztbyte> | and end up breaking the chip |
| 17:16 | < froztbyte> | bloody silly situation |
| 17:16 | < froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: ah, cool |
| 17:17 | < froztbyte> | nice potential for both the ChromeOS-success career path, as well as just shuffling around internally to another department |
| 17:24 | < ToxicFrog> | It would be kind of cool to work with my metamour there, but I don't see that happening because he's a Java guy. (ick) |
| 17:31 | | RichardB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 17:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Congrats, TF! |
| 17:34 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:35 | | RichardB is now known as RichyB |
| 17:44 | < ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: thanks :) |
| 17:44 | < ToxicFrog> | It's not a sure thing yet; the offer needs to be bounced around internally for a while to get approved |
| 17:45 | < iospace> | froztbyte: i'm talking Military grade boards here |
| 17:45 | < iospace> | and no, that's not just a marketing ploy |
| 17:46 | < iospace> | i doubt anyone here would have used our products :P |
| 17:57 | < iospace> | (we're a contractor for the military ^^;;) |
| 18:09 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
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| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | RichyB: That website is backed by static HTML. It's generated by a Python script reading XML. |
| 18:58 | | * Vornicus gets fever dreams of improvements for McM's reviews page: each review starts collapsed, to just the title and the boldface. |
| 19:01 | < froztbyte> | iospace: hehe |
| 19:01 | < froztbyte> | iospace: I've had a little bit of dealings with those sorts of toys too ;) |
| 19:03 | < iospace> | heh |
| 19:03 | < iospace> | sort of where I discovered i love low level coding ^_^ |
| 19:03 | | Derakon_ [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 19:04 | | * Derakon_ ponders how to tackle this part of the OMX cockpit refactor. |
| 19:04 | < Derakon_> | I assume I have a stage positioner system, which can move the sample in X, Y, and Z (three axes). |
| 19:05 | < Derakon_> | Each positioner may be composed of 1 or 2 (or, since we have at least 2, we can assume N) layered positioning systems. |
| 19:05 | < Derakon_> | In our specific case, we have one mover for large-scale motion, and another for small-scale. |
| 19:05 | < Derakon_> | In any case, the two combine to provide the true stage position along that axis. |
| 19:06 | < Derakon_> | Our current GUI is of course hardcoded at two elements per axis, and displays the position as (A + B), where A is the large-scale mover and B the small-scale. |
| 19:06 | < Derakon_> | And when the cockpit receives a new large-scale position it knows to update A and vice-versa. |
| 19:07 | < Derakon_> | Now I need to make a new system where the ordering of each mover is not predetermined. |
| 19:07 | < Derakon_> | So a device says "I have a new position for axis 0", and the GUI needs to say "Okay, that device is #2 in line, so that means I update this part of the text". |
| 19:08 | < Derakon_> | The problem is that I can't establish that ordering until after the devices are initialized, since it's at that point that I learn what their capabilities are. |
| 19:08 | < Derakon_> | Which means that their "publish new position" functionality doesn't know how to describe itself. |
| 19:09 | < Derakon_> | ...hm, the GUI could maintain a mapping of device name to position-in-list, and then the device publishes position alongside its name. That should work. |
| 19:09 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:09 | < Derakon_> | Okay, thanks guys. :) |
| 19:10 | < ToxicFrog> | quack |
| 19:30 | < Derakon_> | ...that was surprisingly painless. Wow. |
| 19:31 | | * iospace steals Derakon_'s _ |
| 19:31 | < Derakon_> | I'm here from work; Home Me is also online and forgot to change his nick when he went to bed last night. |
| 19:32 | < Derakon_> | (Yeah, I could use screen/irssi, but I prefer X-Chat) |
| 19:32 | < ToxicFrog> | (X-Chat + ZNC supremacy) |
| 19:32 | < Derakon_> | :effort: |
| 19:33 | < ToxicFrog> | Totally worth it |
| 19:33 | < ToxicFrog> | Assuming you have a linux server to run ZNC on |
| 19:33 | < ToxicFrog> | and who doesn't, these days? |
| 19:33 | < Derakon_> | I have my home computer and my laptop, and both run OSX. |
| 19:33 | < Derakon_> | I could probably get ZNC running on the home computer, but again, :effort: |
| 19:36 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 19:37 | | * iospace spazzes |
| 19:38 | < iospace> | I'M GOING TO SLAUGHTER TERATERM SCRIPTS, SPOON OUT THEIR ENTRAILS, AND THEN MAKE A NICE PRETTY NOOSE TO HANG THE CORPSE FROM |
| 19:38 | < iospace> | ^_^ |
| 19:47 | <&McMartin> | Man, TeraTerm |
| 19:47 | <&McMartin> | That's a name I haven't heard in a looooong time. |
| 19:48 | | * Vornicus goes befuddlicious on the starwars reference~ |
| 19:53 | <&McMartin> | Don't try to read too much into it |
| 20:01 | <~Vornicus> | I know. |
| 20:01 | <~Vornicus> | It's just that's the first thing I thought of and it goes a bit silly~ |
| 20:14 | < iospace> | McMartin: we use it cause we can script for it and use it to log |
| 20:57 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 21:00 | | RichyB [richardb@3EB374.3B9267.B6DA76.3541AD] has joined #code |
| 21:06 | <&McMartin> | Does it do SSH now? |
| 21:06 | | * McMartin recalls he was using it through an actual null modem cable |
| 21:24 | | RichyB [richardb@3EB374.3B9267.B6DA76.3541AD] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:30 | | * gnolam ponders flyback diodes. |
| 21:33 | <@TheWatcher> | The homing pigeons of the electronics world~ |
| 21:36 | | * gnolam has TheWatcher Schottky for that remark. |
| 21:37 | | * TheWatcher dies wondering what could have led to such violence |
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| 23:15 | <&McMartin> | I like how the HTTP cookie spec involves Wile E. Coyote buying a rocket launcher from Acme |
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| 23:52 | <&McMartin> | Cookie: CUSTOMER=WILE_E_COYOTE; PART_NUMBER=ROCKET_LAUNCHER_0001; SHIPPING=FEDEX |
| --- Log closed Wed Sep 05 00:00:07 2012 |