| --- Log opened Mon Feb 20 00:00:52 2012 |
| 00:05 | | * McMartin ponders ocamlyacc |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | One of these days I'm going to have to actually learn how error productions work in LALR parser generators |
| 00:19 | | * Vornicus examines Eri |
| 00:19 | <~Vornicus> | an actual rocket scientist? |
| 00:19 | < Eri> | Hell no. |
| 00:20 | < Eri> | There's a competition going on for canadian universities to design a small satellite |
| 00:20 | <~Vornicus> | Aha |
| 00:20 | < Eri> | It's a 3U cubesat, if you know about them |
| 00:20 | <~Vornicus> | I don't, so that doesn't help much, but the competition bit sounds interesting |
| 00:20 | < Eri> | Yeah, it's pretty cool. |
| 00:20 | < Eri> | I'm doing the groundstation, which is turning out to be more comp-sci and less electrical engineering than I'd hoped |
| 00:21 | < Eri> | So, I've had to learn a lot of stuff |
| 00:21 | < Eri> | Anywhoo, there's 12 or 13 teams, I think. |
| 00:22 | < Eri> | Ours is in second-to last place, by the last judging panel |
| 00:22 | < Eri> | We've got six or eight months to wrap everything up, and nothing's even been prototyped. |
| 00:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Woo, posted the first revision of my openttd timetabling to the bugtracker :D |
| 00:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No gui changes yet though, other than to disable the.. 5 things I obsoleted. Heh. |
| 01:27 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-5aa18eaf.balk.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:50 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 02:02 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
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| 03:24 | | Thalass [thalass@Nightstar-f1102324.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 03:25 | < Thalass> | Hey guys, i have yet another really stupid question. Md5 checksums. How does one apply them to the file in question? |
| 03:27 | <&Derakon> | Make an MD5 hash of the file, and it should match the checksum, AIUI. |
| 03:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yes |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, they aren't really something you "apply". |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | You run md5sum on the file(s), then see if the resulting hashes match what they should be. |
| 05:51 | < cpux> | Good for making sure the binary uploaded matches the binary downloaded. Not sure what else to do with it. |
| 06:24 | <@himi> | Convincing people that two different files are the same is one other use I can think of |
| 06:24 | <@himi> | Unless they're also aware that MD5 is totally broken now |
| 06:26 | <&McMartin> | It's not totally broken unless you can match size and hash with arbitrary subcontents. |
| 06:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's most moderately broken |
| 06:27 | <&McMartin> | If hash collisions break your algorithm, then MD5 is unacceptable |
| 06:27 | <&McMartin> | It's perfectly cromulent as a checksum. |
| 06:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | tolerable as a checksum |
| 06:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | it's vulnerable to chosen-prefix attacks, so you can get a certificate signs, then generate a different certificate that appears to also be signed |
| 06:32 | <&McMartin> | Digital signatures are on the list of "if hash collisions break your algorithm" |
| 06:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Weaknesses to preimage have been found, although they're not sufficient to be practical yet |
| 06:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Basically, there's so many chinks that you should be going "eeeeeeeh, let's NOT use MD5" |
| 06:34 | <&McMartin> | I still don't see how that goes into the use case of "did the download fail" |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | Sure, you can use SHA512, but then people *won't bother looking at it* |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | Now, if you're Dropbox, and you're using it for dedup, then sure |
| 06:36 | <&McMartin> | But frankly that's still kind of terrifying because it seems entirely too likely you could get accidental collisions regardless =P |
| 06:36 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
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| 06:39 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:51 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|chores |
| 07:00 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
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| 07:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: for a situation like that, would it make sense to dedup based on, say, size + two different hash algorithms? |
| 07:13 | <&McMartin> | I suspect that a decent but not excessively expensive hash - SHA256, say - followed by separate chaining would cover it. |
| 07:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | What do you use to find the right file in the chain, though? |
| 07:21 | <~Vornicus> | direct compare is all you've got, unfortunately. |
| 07:21 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 07:22 | <~Vornicus> | I mean sure, stat vs size, but then you're pretty well stuck. Fortunately, collisions are extremely likely to be Very Different Files, so an early bailout works. |
| 07:35 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-cdeba41f.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 07:54 | | Kindamoody|chores is now known as Kindamoody |
| 08:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 08:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | The point of dedup on a file storage service is that you don't have the original file to compare to |
| 08:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | The user asks for foo.png. Your records show that it has md5sum whatever. The chain for that md5sum contains four files. What additional data do you need to have stored to find the right one? |
| 08:24 | < maoranma> | http://goo.gl/UE8F3 <- Bless the logical. |
| 08:37 | <&McMartin> | TF: This would be "sharing identical file parts across multiple users" |
| 08:37 | <&McMartin> | In which case you need to use a disambiguator token along with the hash to identify the thing to download. |
| 08:37 | <&McMartin> | But the user also has to upload All The Things. |
| 08:38 | <&McMartin> | This latter is generally considered part of the deal anyhow, because it means you're a file storage locker instead of a digital distributor, etc. |
| 08:38 | <&McMartin> | So the question then becomes "do I get to turn this into a symlink, having received it" |
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| 09:43 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 09:44 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 10:09 | < maoranma> | Stupid USB number pad |
| 10:09 | < maoranma> | Windows detects key combos across both devices, IE, WIN-NUMPAD9 |
| 10:09 | < maoranma> | But then treats the release of both key separately |
| 10:10 | < maoranma> | So my stupid start menu opens |
| 10:11 | <@Tamber> | Rather than the clever start menu. I see how that's annoying. |
| 10:13 | < maoranma> | Does it with my numpad on my mouse too |
| 10:35 | < maoranma> | I wonder if there's a way to make input from the second HID appear to come from the first HID |
| 10:41 | | RichyB [MyCatVerbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 13:27 | <@TheWatcher> | My morning: [master 97a3372] Fixes for more version 2 html weirdness. What in Hastur's name was I thinking?! |
| 13:28 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 13:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | To my surprise I was about to log in to my router's javascript-happy admin page through my phone |
| 13:30 | | Netsplit over, joins: kazrikna, Tarinaky, gnolam |
| 13:30 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: cpux, @Alek, Thalass, @ToxicFrog, Stalker, RichyB, @Derakon[AFK] |
| 13:30 | | Netsplit over, joins: Stalker, Alek, Derakon[AFK] |
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| 13:30 | | Thalass [thalass@C2A270.C6BBF7.D21090.190A6D] has joined #code |
| 13:30 | <@TheWatcher> | ... And now look what you did! |
| 13:30 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 28 nicks [13 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal] |
| 13:30 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@2D9871.E3DD81.3BE9E7.8E3843] has joined #code |
| 13:34 | | * Tamber quietly re-hangs the "do not unplug" sign on that, sidles away and tries to look innocent. |
| 13:35 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-36422e6e.as43234.net] has joined #code |
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| 14:01 | | ShellNinja [abudhabi@Nightstar-c9072dad.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #code |
| 14:08 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 15:22 | | * TheWatcher eyes his #code logs |
| 15:22 | < Thalass> | ? |
| 15:22 | <@TheWatcher> | If one of you is on 178.238.232.57, you're a fucking knob and been added to my DROP list |
| 15:22 | < gnolam> | ? |
| 15:25 | < ShellNinja> | Doesn't look like me. |
| 15:27 | <@TheWatcher> | gnolam: whoever's on there tripped my DOS blocker by making entirely too many requests per minute for the same file on my server |
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| 15:58 | < Thalass> | nope, not i, TW. |
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| 19:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | As usual, version control hates me: hg's "merging" refuses to touch files that both I and upstream have modified. All it will do is throw gvimdiff at me and say "enjoy" |
| 19:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It would have been much easier to use a clean upstream and reapply my patch. |
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| 21:21 | < gnolam> | http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2526 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Feb 21 00:00:27 2012 |