| --- Log opened Tue Oct 25 00:00:46 2011 |
| 00:00 | < jerith> | http://ci.praekeltfoundation.org/view/vumi/job/Vumi/ |
| 00:02 | < jerith> | Oh. Apparently pyflakes isn't in the violation reporter thing. |
| 00:02 | < Derakon> | That pep8 graph is tracking compliance with the standard as a function of commit#? |
| 00:03 | < jerith> | Yes. |
| 00:03 | < jerith> | Well, build number. |
| 00:04 | < Derakon> | Anyway, gym time. Ta-ta. |
| 00:04 | | Derakon [chriswei@510B1D.620261.5E24F5.C009AE] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 00:04 | < jerith> | We only get builds for merges to the trunk-equivalent. |
| 00:04 | < jerith> | Our code quality is gradually increasing. |
| 00:21 | <~Vornicus> Hooray, code quality |
| 00:34 | < kwsn> | quality? |
| 00:34 | < kwsn> | such a thing exists? |
| 00:35 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 00:37 | <~Vornicus> SOmehow |
| 01:09 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-f29f718d.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:11 | < McMartin> | "Apparently, having your settings arbitrarily scattered across two completely separate control panels represents the height of usability in the alternate reality from which GNOME design decisions emanate." |
| 01:45 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:56 | < sshine> | SKI-combinator calculus, the drinking game: You drink when you introduce I or derive I. |
| 01:57 | < sshine> | unfortunately the game gets tricky the moment S is introduced. |
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| 05:22 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: at least GNOME has a usable desktop switcher and runs on older hardware >.< |
| 05:25 | < McMartin> | As of Ocelot, Unity now does too. |
| 05:25 | < McMartin> | Well, run on older hardware. |
| 05:28 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-14eb6405.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 05:40 | | * kazrikna switched to KDE... |
| 05:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hmm, I guess I'm at a point of considering that too |
| 05:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Or another distro besides ubuntu |
| 05:42 | < kazrikna> | Debian? :) |
| 05:42 | | * McMartin runs Fedora at home, but it's not really a popular choice |
| 05:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah, somehow I doubt debian would be better than ubuntu :P |
| 05:43 | < kazrikna> | less unityized possibly. |
| 05:43 | | * kazrikna went to ubuntu from debian, still uses debian on some systems. |
| 05:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | true, that's such a cockup that debian is better in comparison |
| 05:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But even gnome 3 classic seems worse than gnome 2 |
| 05:45 | < kazrikna> | Kde or xfce then... :) |
| 05:45 | < kazrikna> | i didn't care for xfce myself though. |
| 05:45 | < McMartin> | Rhamphoryncus: It is, but GTK+3 is so much better than GTK+2 that it hurts. |
| 05:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | for programmers or the users? |
| 05:46 | < McMartin> | Both, really. |
| 05:46 | < McMartin> | Users tend not to notice as much other than via consistency of interface, though. |
| 05:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I haven't seen any examples yet |
| 05:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Right now I have firefox, xchat, and desura open.. yeah, I'm not seeing much gtk stuff :P |
| 05:47 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (yes, xchat is gtk-based, but it's half-assed.) |
| 05:47 | < McMartin> | (So is firefox, but it is too) |
| 05:47 | < McMartin> | Eclipse, Pidgin |
| 05:47 | < McMartin> | VMware |
| 05:47 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I thought firefox was just gtk themed. Or is it a monstrous hybrid of the two? |
| 05:48 | < McMartin> | It's XUL+, which is a monstrous hybrid. |
| 05:48 | < McMartin> | It's GTK+ controlled primarily via JavaScript |
| 05:48 | < McMartin> | s/GTK+/whatever's native, which on Linux is GTK+/ |
| 05:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh wow, right click is still there, it's just hidden as alt right click |
| 05:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (and they wiped all my existing settings.) |
| 05:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh wow, it actually sticks to the sides or middle, rather than floating randomly (pixel offsets) and getting confused all the time. Well, it might still get confused, I'll have to wait and see. :P |
| 05:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So they actually fixed a long-standing stupidity, then hid it. |
| 05:54 | < McMartin> | Thinking about User Interfaces causes you to hate freedom |
| 05:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | updating my OS causes me to hate everything |
| 06:34 | < ToxicFrog> | kazrikna: the problem I had with KDE is that it has brutal system requirements. |
| 06:34 | < ToxicFrog> | I don't really like hearing my laptop's fans going full bore all the time even when "idle". |
| 06:35 | < ToxicFrog> | I would go with XFCE, but I kind of need more than one row of virtual desktops. |
| 06:35 | < ToxicFrog> | So, GNOME it is. |
| 06:36 | < McMartin> | GObject: Making COM look like a sensible design since 2003 |
| 06:37 | < ToxicFrog> | GObject is fine as long as you only ever interact with it from HLLs~ |
| 06:37 | < McMartin> | If by HLLs you mean "Python", which it attempts to reimplement using the C preprocessor -_- |
| 06:38 | < McMartin> | (Likewise, COM is fine if you're using C++, since it is 'use the C++ ABI as an RPC mechanism') |
| 06:38 | < ToxicFrog> | I actually meant Lua, I've never used the Python binding~ |
| 06:38 | < kazrikna> | Hmm. I didn't really notice with my Athlon64x2 system here. |
| 06:38 | < ToxicFrog> | But I would have assumed that the Python binding is sane, absent other information. |
| 06:39 | < McMartin> | It is. |
| 06:39 | < McMartin> | (GtkParasite is *awesome*) |
| 06:39 | < ToxicFrog> | kazrikna: do you have an actual video card, or do you have an onboard Intel card that fakes everything in software? |
| 06:39 | < kazrikna> | Actual video card, that would explain it. |
| 06:39 | < kazrikna> | a 9650 i think? something like that. nvidia. |
| 06:40 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I'm testing all of this on my laptops, none of which have had actual video hardware. |
| 06:40 | < ToxicFrog> | And KDE 4 apparently does something that runs it flat out all the time. |
| 06:40 | < ToxicFrog> | This has terrible implications for heat, noise, and battery life. |
| 06:41 | < ToxicFrog> | (also, while KDE has lots of useful informational widgets, none of them actually work unless you put them in the desktop background, ie, the part of the desktop that I never see) |
| 06:41 | < ToxicFrog> | (GNOME lets me actually put a CPU monitor in the taskbar) |
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| 06:48 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: what's GtkParasite? |
| 07:00 | < McMartin> | It's a GTK module you load in with GTK's equivalent of LD_PRELOAD that spawns a separate app that lets you look at the widget tree in the target app... |
| 07:00 | < McMartin> | ... and also gives you an interactive python shell to manipulate it with via PyGTK |
| 07:01 | < McMartin> | http://chipx86.github.com/gtkparasite/ |
| 07:01 | < McMartin> | "Why 'Parasite?'" "Parasite runs inside of another application and allows for manipulating the application. We thought the name was appropriate. Bonus: We got to create a cute little logo and draw him crawling on boxes. Much better t-shirt opportunities." |
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| 09:37 | < AnnoDomini> | It appears the inventor of Lisp died yesterday. |
| 09:43 | < jerith> | Yup. |
| 09:43 | < jerith> | Sad month for tech pioneers. |
| 09:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 40% PL does NOT smell like victory in the morning x_x |
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| 10:01 | | * McMartin got to meet that guy once. |
| 10:01 | < gnolam> | I assume the topic is John McCarthy. |
| 10:02 | < jerith> | Yup. |
| 10:04 | | ServerMode/#code [+o jerith] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 10:05 | | jerith changed the topic of #code to: Welcome to #Code! || RIP Dennis Ritchie, John McCarthy || Rants and monologues are encouraged; many cores, no waiting || Pastebin: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/ (Note antispam question, answer 'Yes') || ? x, ich werde x Wissenschaft tun |
| 10:06 | | mode/#code [+ooooooooooooooooo AnnoDomini Attilla Derakon gnolam kazrikna kwsn McMartin Namegduf PinkFreud Reiver Rhamphoryncus Syloqs-AFH Tarinaky Stalker Thaqui TheWatcher[afk] ToxicFrog] by jerith |
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| 11:10 | <@gnolam> | http://vimeo.com/28962540 |
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| 22:15 | | * TheWatcher hates all over php |
| 22:16 | <@gnolam> | What now? |
| 22:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, I suppose it's not /specifically/ php. I just hate interleaving of code and content, but unfortunately I have no choice in the matter (writing a mediawiki skin) |
| 22:39 | <@jerith> | There's a place for the interleaving of code and content. |
| 22:40 | <@jerith> | It's in a good template language. |
| 22:49 | < sshine> | I took over a job where the classes are like this: Main is instantiated with $Database, $Error and $Logger singletons and sets all handles to all of these inside each other. |
| 22:50 | < sshine> | then $Page, $Course, $Project and $InfoBox singletons are created with a $MainObject singleton so everything has access to everything... and it hardly even uses global variables! :) |
| 22:50 | < sshine> | wait... ~~~~ |
| 22:51 | < sshine> | so Page, Course, Project and InfoBox aren't container classes. they only have static methods. |
| 22:51 | < sshine> | these static methods return a mixture of SQL queries, SQL query array results and HTML. |
| 22:51 | <@jerith> | My head hurts. |
| 22:52 | < sshine> | it's not even the worst I've seen. |
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| 22:53 | < celticminstrel> | So really they're using classes as namespaces. |
| 22:53 | < sshine> | singleton objects of classes as namespaces, yes |
| 22:53 | <@McMartin> | Hm |
| 22:53 | <@McMartin> | That's standard practice in JS and Lua, isn't it? |
| 22:54 | < celticminstrel> | Possibly. |
| 22:54 | < sshine> | I don't get why the guy didn't just have Database, Error and Logger (not their singleton objects) as global, static namespaces |
| 22:54 | <@jerith> | Does PHP's object model change with every minor version still? |
| 22:54 | < celticminstrel> | Does PHP have namespaces? |
| 22:55 | <@TheWatcher> | yep |
| 22:56 | < sshine> | hehe |
| 22:56 | < sshine> | the namespace separator is \ :-P |
| 22:57 | < celticminstrel> | Wait what! |
| 22:58 | < sshine> | http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.rationale.php |
| 22:58 | | * jerith creates a namespace called "C:". |
| 22:58 | < sshine> | jerith, you really want to. |
| 23:01 | <@jerith> | I thought PHP used _ as a namespace delimeter. |
| 23:01 | <@jerith> | *delimiter |
| 23:41 | | * Alek eyes gnolam. |
| 23:42 | < Alek> | http://qdb.us/303238 |
| --- Log closed Wed Oct 26 00:00:02 2011 |