| --- Log opened Thu Mar 03 00:00:44 2011 |
| 00:33 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 00:37 | < gnolam> | Planning on building your own space station? |
| 00:40 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:40 | <@Derakon> | Gnolam: just trying to figure out what the gravity gradient is like. |
| 01:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:04 | | * TheWatcher[T-2] readsup briefly, takes a moment to viciously stab bioinformaticians in the head. |
| 01:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | I always blamed this on the fact that for 75% of them Perl is their first language >_> |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | (Computer Scientists, when a layman comes up and asks "I need to do lots of string processing; what language should I learn?" ASK MORE QUESTIONS FIRST.) |
| 01:06 | < TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | Oh, it's worse that that, if Manchester's bioinformatics is anything to go by |
| 01:06 | < TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | they get taught perl by someone who doesn't actually understand it properly |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | The blind leading the bland |
| 01:07 | < TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | We've been trying to persuade them to pay for me to write a perl course for them, but... yeah. |
| 01:07 | < TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | Anyway, slep. |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | heh |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | Yes |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | You are allowed. |
| 01:07 | <@Derakon> | As long as they can get their stuff working, what do they care~? |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | You're the only one I know of who is. |
| 01:07 | <@Derakon> | Allowed? |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | TW is the only person allowed to teach bioinformaticians Perl as their first language. |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | Because I've seen his Perl code |
| 01:08 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 01:08 | <@Derakon> | I tried to convince my group to let me tutor them in Python. They said "Good idea!" and then there was no followup. |
| 01:08 | | * McMartin did his part to help Christina out, but then she found MATLAB and R and never looked back. |
| 01:15 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 01:16 | | * Derakon eyes his code. |
| 01:16 | <@Derakon> | Why would this give an error "not enough arguments for format string"? |
| 01:16 | <@Derakon> | print "%5f: %10f %10f %10f" % ratio, outside, top, inside |
| 01:17 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Wrap the names in a tuple |
| 01:17 | <@Derakon> | Especially since printing the four inputs right beforehand gives "2.0 1.11763477325e-07 1.50141306221e-09 133510309361.0" |
| 01:17 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 01:17 | <@Derakon> | Danke. |
| 01:17 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | % binds tighter than , |
| 01:18 | < celticminstrel> | So, parenthesize the arguments. |
| 01:18 | <@Derakon> | That's what Vorn said, yes. |
| 01:19 | < celticminstrel> | Oh, I missed that one line. |
| 01:19 | < celticminstrel> | Duh. |
| 01:22 | < gnolam> | Pretty much everyone except computer scientists can't program. And I wouldn't trust a decent chunk of the latter either. :P |
| 01:23 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Yeah I've seen some atrocities in my day. |
| 01:24 | < gnolam> | Case in point: the job I'm hopefully getting once the paperwork goes through is because physicists can't actually code. :) |
| 01:24 | < gnolam> | But at least these ones have the sense to lament that fact instead of believing that they can. |
| 01:26 | < gnolam> | That's Visual Basic's problem, BTW. It's not actually that horrible a language, really - it has a small, specific set of tasks it's decent for (knocking together a very quick, simple UI or doing some macro work). It's just that it makes people who can't code think they can code. :P |
| 01:27 | <@McMartin> | Heh. I'd go further than that. |
| 01:27 | <@McMartin> | VB6 was at least a decade a head of its time. |
| 01:27 | <@McMartin> | *ahead of |
| 01:27 | <@McMartin> | Where it stayed for the next 20, but. |
| 01:28 | < gnolam> | And then there's MATLAB. Which combines a language possibly devised by Abdul al-Hazred himself with a user base of people who shouldn't be allowed near programming, ever. |
| 01:29 | < celticminstrel> | Who is that? |
| 01:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Writer of the Necronomicon. |
| 01:29 | < gnolam> | I'll take COBOL over M code. At least the former is consistent. :P |
| 01:30 | < Namegduf> | gnolam: I'm not sure being decent for knocking together a "very quick, simple UI" is due to the language, as opposed to the IDE it is attached to. |
| 01:30 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Matlab = Mad Arabic? |
| 01:30 | < Namegduf> | I'd also consider being designed so all the safety features are optional specifically so people *can* write bad code quickly as bad. |
| 01:32 | < Namegduf> | I'd make more criticisms but I've forgotten everything. |
| 01:32 | < Namegduf> | And I like it that way. |
| 01:48 | < Alek> | COBOL. ugh. |
| 01:48 | < Alek> | it's a database scripting language, not a programming language, dammit. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | Namegduf: The IDE and the underlying library too. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | That latter bit was where most of the catchup needed to happen |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | Also, yes, COBOL is indeed a db scripting language, for specific kinds of databases. |
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| 02:05 | < gnolam> | God I love WinUAE's floppy sound emulation. |
| 02:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | WinUAE? |
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| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | Universal Amiga Emulator |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | I'm guessing it's synthesizing the famous Grink Gronk sounds. |
| 02:23 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Man, I remember my old 1541, and how it made that crunchy sound whenever I screwed something up. |
| 02:29 | < gnolam> | It is. Quite accurately. :) |
| 02:29 | < gnolam> | It even makes that demanding "tik... tik... tik..." noise at the boot screen. |
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| 10:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh wow, gthumb 2.11 really sucks |
| 10:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | besides totally changing the collection format and thus losing all your collections, tagging, and comments (supposedly an importer was added in a later release but it doesn't work), and dropping the ability to select a group of images and "move to" a specific folder (only way to handle really large destinations quickly), and losing the ability to drag&drop a group of images.. it also lost the slideshow support |
| 10:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Much slower simply to scroll in a folder too |
| 10:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (old version would thumbnail incrementally as you scrolled down. Scrolling up was buggy as it would always restart at the top and go down rather than changing direction. New version avoids that by not displaying *any* until several screens are rendered) |
| 10:28 | < Namegduf> | Wow. |
| 10:28 | < Namegduf> | To remove features and suck that bad a GNOME app usually has to go to a new major version. |
| 10:28 | < Namegduf> | I see they're getting ready for GNOME 3. |
| 10:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup. Total rewrite to use new architecture |
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| 15:34 | <@AnnoDomini> | http://www.wykop.pl/link/649569/upgrade-kazdej-wersji-windows-od-dos-do-win7/ |
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| 20:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh god, the ACM digital library is so good |
| 20:12 | < ToxicFrog> | So, so good |
| 20:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Or maybe that's just by comparison to the school library's godawful online journal search |
| 20:18 | < gnolam> | ... what |
| 20:18 | < gnolam> | ACM's search is awful. |
| 20:19 | < gnolam> | It's hard to find the papers you want /even when you know the name of the author/, FFS. |
| 20:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Not in my experience. |
| 20:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Type in author's name in search box, hey, there they are. |
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| 21:00 | < Alek> | http://pastie.org/private/t8j3ur7noqotqudq7s9jyw |
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| 21:39 | < ErikM> | I can't get on the internet from my laptop, and I kindly request the help of anyone here who can be bothered. Details follow: running WinXP SP2, have tried both cable and wireless. Both report as "connected" but cannot access internet data with any browser or program. Inserting same cable into other computer works fine, suggesting that my laptop is the problem. |
| 21:41 | < ErikM> | I have attempted to reboot both computer and modem. I have run "ipconfig /renew" and temporarily and simultaneously disabled both firewall and antivirus. Going directly to IP addresses does not work either. Error messages are "server not found" for web addresses and "connection reset" for IP addresses. |
| 21:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | Your Windows is stale. Wipe the drive and reinstall. |
| 22:00 | <@McMartin> | Have you also tried ipconfig /flushdns? |
| 22:04 | < ErikM> | I had not. I have now tried it, and I get the same errors. |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | OK |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | Hmm |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | One of the go-to things is to load up the event viewer and look for errors in that, but I don't recall offhand how to do that in XP |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | Aha, OK, that's annoying |
| 22:06 | <@McMartin> | Oh, OK, there |
| 22:06 | <@McMartin> | Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer -> System |
| 22:09 | < ErikM> | OK. I have seven errors showing up recently, six from W32Time and one from Dhcp. The Dhcp event says that I was sent a DHCPNACK by the server. |
| 22:10 | <@McMartin> | Now we're beyond my ken, but that sounds as if your router or your ISP is giving you the finger |
| 22:13 | < ErikM> | Hm. Why would they knock my computer off specifically, and leave the rest of the line working? |
| 22:14 | <@McMartin> | Hm. You mentioned "modem" - are you directly connected to the internet or do you have a router-firewall? |
| 22:16 | < ErikM> | The latter, mostly. I have a "box". It is variously described by both its packaging and the ISP tech support line as being a modem, a router, a splitter, or a combination thereof. It sits between the wall and the multiple computers in the house. |
| 22:17 | < ErikM> | This computer I'm using right now, and the laptop which is not working, are both plugged into it. |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Hrm. |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Dumb theory, but maybe the plug is busted? Try a different port? |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Otherwise, this is at the point where you might consider calling your ISP's support |
| 22:18 | < Alek> | he's tried both cable and wireless with that lappy - neither works. sounds like NOT the plug. |
| 22:19 | < Alek> | ... check for IP conflict? maybe the lappy's IP is the same as that of some other device, or is improperly configured, so is causing the problem? |
| 22:19 | < Alek> | go to command line, type ipconfig, compare to the working computer's ipconfig |
| 22:20 | < ErikM> | Changed both plug and cable, still no worky. It really really really SHOULDN'T be an IP conflict, as this has been working fine for months and everybody in the house knows better than to change settings without me watching. (And I personally know better than to change them at all, because it almost never helps. :P) |
| 22:20 | < ErikM> | Oh, and we didn't install any new devices recently. |
| 22:22 | < ErikM> | Curious. ipconfig reports this one as being on address 10.0.0.2 and the laptop as being on 192.168.5.5. |
| 22:23 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, 10.0.0.2 is "DHCP isn't telling me what the fuck, I'm using stuff from the I don't know what the fuck subnet" |
| 22:23 | <@McMartin> | That laptop isn't getting told an IP address by the box, and so it can't reach the 'tubes. |
| 22:24 | < Alek> | uhhuh. |
| 22:24 | < Alek> | wait a second. |
| 22:25 | < Alek> | he said it's THIS one that's on 10.0.0.2. this being the one that works. |
| 22:25 | <@McMartin> | .. OK, that's even weird. |
| 22:26 | <@McMartin> | 192.168.x.x is "you're on a LAN" |
| 22:26 | < ErikM> | (the above for laptop was by cable, on wireless it's 192.168.1.50, which is little difference.) |
| 22:27 | <@McMartin> | (Right, same deal) |
| 22:27 | <@McMartin> | Those are the kinds of IPs I get on machines that actually work |
| 22:27 | <@McMartin> | At this point it sounds like something about your network topology is hosed, and if you can pull a Shiboleet this is probably the time to do so |
| 22:27 | <@McMartin> | Well, half of one |
| 22:28 | < ErikM> | It's not like I can lose anything trying, is it? :) |
| 22:30 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 22:30 | <@McMartin> | And if you have an interesting enough problem, they might give you the double secret real tech support number. |
| 22:30 | | * McMartin got that when a lightning strike and flood took out his neighborhood's node. |
| 22:32 | < ErikM> | I sort of got that. I got a number that lets me skip the "press 1 for sales, press 2 for marketing, press 3 if you actually want something useful" rigamarole and go straight to actual tech support. Or at least, straight to being on hold waiting for actual tech support. ;) |
| 22:33 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, if you can get someone where you can start with "one the machines on my network isn't working and it's getting wildly different IP addresses, what's going on?" that sounds like a good place to start. |
| 22:34 | < ErikM> | I'll call them as soon as they open. (Damn businesses and their opening hours targeted at reasonable people.) Thanks for putting in the effort to help. |
| 22:36 | <@McMartin> | I managed to find the event viewer in XP as a result, so hooray |
| 22:37 | < ErikM> | On that note, asking for someone who knows what Event Viewer is could also be a good filter. |
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| 22:49 | < Alek> | hrm. |
| 22:49 | < Alek> | ok, uh. one more thing. |
| 22:49 | < Alek> | what's the GATEWAY IP you get from ipconfig on this machine and on the lappy? |
| 22:52 | < ErikM> | 10.0.0.1 here, 192.168.x.x laptop. |
| 22:52 | < Alek> | h-uh. |
| 22:52 | < Alek> | try going to those IPs in your browser, both here and on the lappy. |
| 22:53 | < Alek> | see if any of them actually pull up a real page. |
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| 22:53 | < Alek> | routers, even modem routers, generally have a config page on that IP. |
| 22:56 | < ErikM> | While on wireless, laptop can open wireless config page on 192.168.1.1, otherwise nothing. |
| 22:57 | < Alek> | huh. wait a second. |
| 22:57 | < Alek> | "wireless" config page? not router config page? |
| 22:57 | < Alek> | wait, try .0.1 instead. |
| 22:57 | < ErikM> | Yes. The wireless antenna broadcaster is technically a separate device from the main box. |
| 22:58 | | * Alek eyebrows. |
| 22:58 | < ErikM> | Main box config is located at 10.0.0.138. |
| 22:58 | < Alek> | aand it's giving some machines one IP gateway/block and other machines a different IP gateway/block??? |
| 22:59 | < Alek> | weird. |
| 22:59 | < Alek> | I almost suspect a borken firmware update in the recent ISP "upgrades" you mentioned. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Mar 04 00:00:45 2011 |