| --- Log opened Tue Mar 01 00:00:42 2011 |
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| 03:04 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 03:04 | <@Derakon> | Dunno why I wasn't here to begin with. |
| 03:05 | <@Vornicus> | Anyway what I'm getting at is this: I have random.sample set up and working, and that's not the actual problem that I was alluding to - random.sample does approximatly what you say, but the thing is in the focused case (4 * other stuff) you /want/ duplicates. |
| 03:06 | <@Derakon> | Ah, yes. |
| 03:06 | <@Derakon> | That could be as simple as having a toggle switch "allow duplicates" that is forced on if the problem size is larger than the number of valid problems. |
| 03:08 | <@Vornicus> | A good idea. Though as of right now, as I was separating stuff, I made the sampling happen in the global system, because I found that every setup I was thinking of you'd not want duplicates. To allow that would require some re-engineering there, too. |
| 03:09 | <@Derakon> | I hate it when I run into that. |
| 03:09 | <@Derakon> | "Logically your suggestion is an excellent idea, but because of the interior design it would be a lot of work." |
| 03:09 | <@Vornicus> | It actually probably wouldn't be /too/ much work. |
| 03:10 | <@Vornicus> | right now I'm working on 1. separating out the general logic from the specific (so I can make a division drill or a subtraction drill), 2. making those drills, and then 3. figuring out how to build a Gauntlet. |
| 03:11 | <@Derakon> | Which would, what, go endlessly with continually harder questions and each one you get wrong brings you closer to The End? |
| 03:11 | <@Vornicus> | No, the gauntlet would be a multi-problem-type throwdown. |
| 03:11 | <@Derakon> | Aw. |
| 03:18 | <@Vornicus> | I don't really know how to build "continually harder questions" |
| 03:18 | <@Derakon> | Use bigger numbers~ |
| 03:18 | <@Derakon> | Alternately, fixate on numbers that the player got wrong previously. |
| 03:19 | <@Vornicus> | I mean for me, among the first 20 in multiplication, 13 and 17 are the hardest, then from there to easier: 19, 14 and 18, 15 and 16, and then 20, and 12 and lower, are all trivial. |
| 03:21 | <@Derakon> | You can also exclude multiples of 10 or 5. |
| 03:21 | <@Derakon> | (15 * X = 10 * X + 5 * X) |
| 03:21 | <@Vornicus> | yeah, that and 16 are more slow than unreliable for me. |
| 03:22 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 03:25 | <@Vornicus> | It took me upward of 20 seconds for some reason to come up with 13*16. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | 48 + 160 = 208. |
| 03:26 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, i know. |
| 03:35 | <@Derakon> | Ergh, 46 out of 50 in 266.3 seconds, for the numbers in the range 10-20. |
| 03:35 | <@Derakon> | This time 17 accounted for two of my failures. |
| 03:36 | <@Derakon> | And 11 for two as well. Yeegh. |
| 03:37 | <@Vornicus> | I also at some point need to add persistence and/or reporting. |
| 03:37 | <@Derakon> | That'll require server-side processing of cookies, I suspect. |
| 03:38 | <@Vornicus> | Well, persistence is just cookies, which I can do from js. |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | Oh, my mistake. |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | It's been awhile since I dealt with web development. |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | Two glorious years. |
| 03:38 | <@Vornicus> | reporting is server side because I can't talk to email or (like someone the other day asked, though I suspect she was being facetious) facebook from js. |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 03:40 | <@Vornicus> | Email's actually serious, though, and I'd need to build a digest for teacher side. |
| 03:42 | <@Derakon> | Are we assuming the students aren't savvy enough to cheat? |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | Let me put it to you this way. |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | In order to cheat, they would have to (in the planned setup) be able to examine the contents of the js variables, write a thing that answers the questions correctly, and does so while faking the timing so that it looks vaguely human. |
| 03:45 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 03:46 | <@Vornicus> | because "Bill got 50/50 in 3 seconds on multiplication drill 10-20x10-20" looks a liiiiittle suspicious. |
| 03:48 | < FurryHelix> | Vornicus, so you're only really at risk from students who are smart enough to cheat like that and think the work is beneath them? ;) |
| 03:49 | <@Vornicus> | Basically. |
| 03:49 | <@Derakon> | Done properly, cheating should be as hard as doing it correctly~ |
| 03:49 | <@Vornicus> | And if they can do /that/, frankly, I'm not worried about it! |
| 03:49 | < Reiv> | Or one too smart, and half a dozen people who paid lunch money~ |
| 03:49 | <@Derakon> | And teach similarly useful skills! |
| 03:50 | <@Vornicus> | Because to make something look vaguely human in this, you need a solid grounding in stats and fuzzing. |
| 03:54 | <@Vornicus> | Which is to say that you're probably better at that shit than /I/ am, and thus why the fuck are you in a remedial course? |
| 03:56 | < FurryHelix> | Because they spent more time tinkering with making script do their work for them than they spent doing the work? :p |
| 03:59 | <@Vornicus> | Heh |
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| 04:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Been there >.> |
| 04:14 | < ToxicFrog> | The difference is that writing the script is fun, whereas doing the work is a menial chore that should be handled by a computer. |
| 04:15 | <@Vornicus> | Hooray, army of robots. |
| 04:15 | <@Derakon> | Sadly, there is some value in memorizing the simpler multiplications, and memorization tends to be a menial chore. |
| 04:16 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, the small multiplications are on my list of Things You Should Be Able To Do Without Really Thinking About Them. |
| 04:17 | <@Derakon> | As evidence to their utility, they're one of the few things I did not forget shortly after memorizing them~ |
| 04:17 | <@Vornicus> | (along with two-digit addition, 2->1 division, doubling and halving, multiplying or dividing by a power of 10, rounding, and comparison. |
| 04:20 | <@Vornicus> | (and all of these with sign involved) |
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| 04:56 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by Reiver |
| 04:57 | | * ToxicFrog pokes make with a stick |
| 04:57 | | * FurryHelix offers ToxicFrog a bigger stick. |
| 05:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | "luabin" works fine as a target. |
| 05:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | "luabin.exe" causes it to revert to the builtin implicit for making C programs. |
| 05:00 | < FurryHelix> | o_O |
| 05:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Seriously what is this shit |
| 05:03 | <@Vornicus> | wtf make. |
| 05:03 | <@Derakon> | "mv luabin luabin.exe"? |
| 05:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | I may just drop in redo as a replacement |
| 05:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've been wanting to try it out anyways |
| 05:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...or not, it's not self-contained. Blargh. |
| 05:16 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 05:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now I kind of want to write a self-contained redo in sh |
| 05:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | But at the same time, every time I write anything sigificant in (ba)sh I wake up the next morning covered in blood and with no recollection of what happened. |
| 05:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Augh |
| 05:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | FUCK YOUUUUUUU, WINDOWS |
| 05:31 | < FurryHelix> | What happened this time? |
| 05:32 | < FurryHelix> | (Or, rather, what'd you break? :p) |
| 05:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | windows IO redirections are text mode |
| 05:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | in windows, text mode actually fucks with the data going through it |
| 05:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | consequently, you cannot safely send binary data through an IO redirect |
| 05:32 | < FurryHelix> | ...how decidedly pessimal. |
| 05:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I found this out because "./luabin test.lua > test" works fine in linux, but "./luabin.exe test.lua > test.exe" generates a corrupt file in windows. |
| 05:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | TO THE ODMOBILE and I find out that all of the 0A bytes in luabin.exe have ended up as OD OA in test.exe. |
| 05:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | In conclusion, I'm going to have to do the murder to someone. |
| 05:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then redesign my program so that it's not reliant on IO redireio7trrrrrrrrrrrrr5= |
| 05:36 | <@Derakon> | Kitty! \o/ |
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| 06:08 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@1526F6.37AB0D.97233B.788A64] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 06:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | FINALLY |
| 06:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | JESUS |
| 06:11 | <@Derakon> | Jesus saves! The rest of you lose your documents. |
| 06:12 | <@jerith> | TF: Reclaimed your machine from the kitty (\o/) eventually? |
| 06:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but the FINALLY was getting this program working on windows. |
| 06:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Even when I'm writing something dirt simple - 150 lines, two languages, nothing outside ANSI C - it still manages to give me a headache. |
| 06:19 | <@jerith> | Two languages within ANSI C? |
| 06:20 | | * FurryHelix throws some pre-ANSI C at ToxicFrog |
| 06:20 | <@Derakon> | His C is all ANSI, and he's using Lua as well. |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | And Lua is entirely ANSI C except for the binary module loader, which I'm not using in this project. |
| 06:32 | <@Derakon> | T-2, all. |
| 06:38 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 07:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 08:12 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
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| 10:27 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 10:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 11:07 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 11:25 | | * gnolam stabs Linux. |
| 11:30 | < TheWatcher> | ? |
| 11:32 | < gnolam> | Was it /really/ necessary to make shell scripting line ending sensitive? |
| 11:32 | < gnolam> | No. |
| 11:41 | < gnolam> | Bloody autistic OS. :P |
| 12:19 | <@AnnoDomini> | gnolam: Do you know perchance what to do to enable the spellcheck in OOo writer? |
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| 12:40 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
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| 13:35 | < TheWatcher> | Note to self: there is a big difference between 'return unless(blabla)' and 'return if(blabla)' |
| 13:38 | < kwsn> | what language? |
| 13:38 | < TheWatcher> | Perl |
| 13:52 | < froztbyte> | gnolam: que? |
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| 14:50 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
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| 15:41 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 15:49 | < gnolam> | AnnoDomini: not really. I usually try to turn it off. :P |
| 15:50 | < gnolam> | It's not as annoying as the godawful autocorrect, but still. |
| 15:50 | < gnolam> | Its dictionary is shite and it has no grammar checking. |
| 15:52 | < gnolam> | Which means that it gives too many false positives to be useful for the only thing spell checkers are good for for me - catching typos. |
| 15:54 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@C06FE3.F5723C.BE3FEB.9D4666] has joined #code |
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| 15:58 | < gnolam> | froztbyte: ?n*x's anal retentiveness is so great that it can only be either autistic or OCD. |
| 15:58 | < froztbyte> | still lost |
| 15:58 | < gnolam> | And given its general social skills, I'm betting it's the former. |
| 16:07 | | * gnolam hands froztbyte a map. |
| 16:13 | < gnolam> | And in other news, I seem to have a job again. :) |
| 16:13 | < gnolam> | Just a matter of paperwork now. |
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| 16:49 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 16:56 | | * gnolam ponders just what the heck "IE" could mean in this file. |
| 16:58 | < gnolam> | X is X-ray, G is gamma, AE is alpha, and B- and B+ are beta-minus and beta-plus, respectively. But IE? |
| 16:58 | < gnolam> | Ah! Electron capture. Natürlich. |
| 17:19 | | AnnoDomini is now known as Kimbery |
| 18:30 | < gnolam> | Today's Moore's Law realization: the CPU of my (two year old) computer has more cache than my first PC had RAM. |
| 18:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ram? What about HD? |
| 18:40 | | * gnolam was late to the PC scene. |
| 18:40 | < gnolam> | All hail the Amiga! |
| 18:52 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 19:44 | < Alek> | my first was a Trash-80. |
| 19:44 | < Alek> | in the mid-90s. |
| 19:44 | < Alek> | ?_? |
| 19:44 | < Alek> | I only arrived in the country at the end of 89. |
| 19:44 | < Alek> | played around on the school Apples. |
| 19:44 | < Alek> | then saw it at a school fair sale, picked it up. |
| 19:45 | < Alek> | my second was an Apple ][c, from a garage sale, in... 97? or so. |
| 19:46 | < Alek> | wait no. the trs-80 probably 94, give or take. Apple probably 96. 97 brought a used PC-XT, 286, from a friend. |
| 19:46 | < Alek> | then in 99, for my 18th, I finally got a "modern" PC. Win98 K6-2. |
| 20:03 | <@jerith> | C64 ftw. |
| 20:05 | < Alek> | I did play on that. |
| 20:06 | < Alek> | Bard's Tale, Mechwarrior, a karate game... |
| 20:06 | < Alek> | I got stuck a few screens in on Bard's Tale, though, since I had no idea what to do. >_> |
| 20:07 | < gnolam> | ... there was a Mechwarrior for the C64? |
| 20:09 | < Alek> | well, some sort of Mech game. |
| 20:09 | < Alek> | hex-based. |
| 20:09 | < Alek> | but it definitely used the familiar mechs and their equipment. |
| 20:09 | < Alek> | turn-based, too. |
| 20:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Man. My first computer was a AT&T UNIX system with a tiny serial terminal attached to it. |
| 20:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | (ok, a huge serial terminal with a tiny screen) |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | All the TRS-80/Amiga/Commodore/Apple stuff passed me by completely. |
| 20:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Alek: you're thinking of BattleTech: the Crescent Hawk's Inception |
| 20:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | The first BT/MW game. |
| 20:54 | < Alek> | mkay. |
| 20:54 | < Alek> | sounds about right. |
| 21:08 | | Kimbery is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 21:15 | | Kindamoody is now known as KiMo |
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| 22:51 | < Alek> | "I had so many `New Folder`s that I made a folder for them called `New Folders`." |
| 22:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | |
| 22:54 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | Yo dawg I heard you like New Folders so I put your New Folders in a New Folder so you can, uh, fold while you fold |
| 22:56 | < Alek> | http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2011-02-20/ |
| 22:56 | < Alek> | did the PHB actually get smarter? |
| 22:57 | <@McMartin> | He is - very occasionally - actually on the side of his department. |
| 22:58 | <@McMartin> | Yup, that's basically the situation in which he is. |
| 22:59 | <@McMartin> | The other case I can think of was one where they'd gotten a shitty doomed project from a higher-up and he was conspiring with Dilbert and Wally to foist it off on another department while making them think it was their idea to steal it. |
| 23:00 | <@McMartin> | (Wasn't actually poly blends that were forbidden?) |
| 23:02 | | KiMo is now known as KiMo|work |
| 23:02 | < gnolam> | ... that last bit was kind of a non sequitur. |
| 23:03 | <@McMartin> | Oops, mischan =) |
| 23:03 | <@McMartin> | Other channel discussing biblical contracting standards |
| 23:03 | < gnolam> | Ah. |
| 23:03 | | * gnolam puts some leprosy on McMartin's house. |
| 23:03 | <@McMartin> | ("God is smarter than the contractors I saw on my last home improvement show! He should have told the priests to wear face masks, though.") |
| 23:04 | | * McMartin isolates the room for a week to see if it spreads, replaces any infected rocks, replasters the house. |
| 23:04 | <@McMartin> | The WORD of the LORD, also Redwood City Civil Code 473.6.ii, subparagraph 3. |
| 23:12 | < celticminstrel> | Is there a way to tell screen not to close a window as soon as its process terminates? |
| 23:13 | <@McMartin> | Hrm. How are you invoking it in the first place? |
| 23:13 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-61049b95.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Zzz.] |
| 23:13 | < celticminstrel> | screen -mdS marvin ~celmin/marvin.py |
| 23:14 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 23:14 | <@McMartin> | Let me, uh, see what those do |
| 23:14 | <@McMartin> | normally I do not specify a process on the screen command line and instead use the bash shell I get to type in the command I'd like to run, then detach it with ^ad. |
| 23:21 | < celticminstrel> | So, is there a way? |
| 23:27 | <@McMartin> | Well, if you modify your workflow, trivially so |
| 23:27 | < celticminstrel> | Hm? |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | Basically, don't give it the marvin.py command directly, and don't start it detached. |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | Start the process by hand inside screen, then detach it |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | Then, when it's done, it will go back to the shell instead of quitting. |
| 23:29 | < celticminstrel> | But that's more work! :| |
| 23:30 | <@McMartin> | It is literally three additional keystrokes |
| 23:30 | <@McMartin> | ... no. One additional keystroke, because you don't do md anymore either. |
| 23:30 | < celticminstrel> | My current method is about five keystrokes. |
| 23:31 | < FurryHelix> | McMartin, Exactly! He could be using that keystroke for por^Wwork! |
| 23:31 | < celticminstrel> | Oh wait. Twice that, -ish. |
| 23:31 | | Stalker [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 23:31 | < celticminstrel> | Because it's in a shell script. |
| 23:32 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 23:33 | <@McMartin> | There appears to be a "zombie" option you can set. |
| 23:33 | < celticminstrel> | I couldn't figure out how to set that. |
| 23:35 | <@McMartin> | Apparently with "defzombie KR" in which a zombie window will be killed with the K key and restarted with the R key. |
| 23:36 | < celticminstrel> | But where do I type this. |
| 23:36 | <@McMartin> | Into screenrc |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: what's your underlying goal here? Do you want to be able to read the output after it terminates, or do you want a shell? |
| 23:37 | < celticminstrel> | I want to be able to read output after it terminates. |
| 23:38 | < celticminstrel> | If there is any. |
| 23:38 | < celticminstrel> | Especially if there was an error. |
| 23:39 | <@McMartin> | Is there a particular reason you need to start screen, noninteractively, from a shell script instead of running the shell script itself in screen? |
| 23:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | For that matter, is there a reason you can't just redirect output or use screen's logging features? |
| 23:41 | < celticminstrel> | Apart from being slightly faster? Not really. I could use the logging feature, but that means I'd have to delete the logs regularly or something. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said. To accomplish your stated intent, adding 'defzombie KR' to your .screenrc will cause dead tasks to remain in the screen window list. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | When in a zombie window, 'k' will kill it (close the window) and 'r' will revive it (re-run the command) |
| 23:41 | < celticminstrel> | Okay. |
| 23:42 | <@McMartin> | If you don't want that to be for all sessions, but just these, look into the -c option for specifying alternates to $HOME/.screenrc for use as config files |
| 23:46 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: z?] |
| 23:59 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 02 00:00:43 2011 |