| --- Log opened Thu Nov 18 00:00:47 2010 |
| 00:02 | <@Derakon> | quit |
| 00:02 | <@Derakon> | Er. |
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| 00:09 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 00:10 | < Corra`> | I'm becoming increasingly convinced that hamachi is only pretending to be a VLAN |
| 00:13 | < RichardBarrell> | Anyone here understand ZFC? |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | EAP? |
| 00:13 | | * RichardBarrell vaguely prods jerith. |
| 00:14 | < RichardBarrell> | I'm trying to read the wikipedia article on it but have just gotten stuck about halfway through because it suddenly switches notation. :/ |
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| 00:22 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by Reiver |
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| 00:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Corra`: "pretending" how? It manifestly works |
| 00:44 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:44 | < Corra`> | hmm... I can't seem to ping through it. |
| 00:44 | < Corra`> | I'm increasing the network adapter priority, perhaps that was it. |
| 00:45 | < Corra`> | Luckily, I found Connectify which connects wonderfully to my Hamachi network adapter. |
| 00:47 | < Corra`> | Hmmm.. still pings out, might you have any ideas, ToxicFrog ? |
| 00:47 | < Corra`> | huh.... |
| 00:47 | < Corra`> | his router filters MACs, it probably doesn't like me. |
| 00:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I was about to say, a lot of things ignore ping |
| 00:50 | < Corra`> | So I may still have a working connection? Hmmm... but \\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx doesnt' work either |
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| 00:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and? Make sure there's a service listening on one of the other computers in the hamachi network, and connect to that |
| 00:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | And make sure you're using its hamachi IP |
| 00:56 | < Corra`> | yes, hamachi IP is important. |
| 00:56 | < Corra`> | hamachi will route non hamachi ips though, right? for example a DS' mac address? |
| 00:57 | < Corra`> | also my router is being a pain and not letting me in.. |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pretty sure it won't, no |
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| 00:58 | < Corra`> | what? what's the point of a virtual lan if it doesn't let you lan? |
| 00:59 | < Corra`> | I need to bridge two lans. |
| 01:01 | < Corra`> | oh.. I had the wrong ip address... haha |
| 01:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Typically, all of the systems you want to route through the VLAN have addresses -on that LAN-. So it does let you LAN. That's kind of the point. |
| 01:03 | < Corra`> | yes, but I want all the stuff to be behind the scenes of my WAP |
| 01:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | What? |
| 01:04 | < Corra`> | The DS can't run any VLAN software. |
| 01:04 | < Corra`> | any virtualization has to be on the WAP |
| 01:05 | < Corra`> | I just want to play my DS with a friend, in say, Alaska. |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hence my earlier comment about "if it has an AP/router mode" - it sets itself up as a gateway and routes packets from its physlan through the VLAN |
| 01:05 | < Corra`> | hamachi does not seem capable of that. |
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| 01:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | You might be able to run it on a system which bridges the two LANs, but I don't recall how to do that |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | Also, "I just want to..." rings a little hollow when the thing you "just" want to do is something that as far as anyone here knows nobody has managed to actually successfully do. |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | (Even *with* the official wireless access dongle I was never able to get the DS to connect to *other* DSes elsewhere) |
| 01:10 | < celticminstrel> | Every time someone says DS I think "Dual Screen". |
| 01:11 | < celticminstrel> | But that doesn't seem to fit the context. |
| 01:11 | <@McMartin> | It's fairly close; that's the main feature of the handheld device in question (the Nintendo DS) |
| 01:12 | < celticminstrel> | Wait, you are talking about the Nintendo DS? |
| 01:12 | <@McMartin> | Yes. |
| 01:12 | < celticminstrel> | ...oh. |
| 01:12 | < celticminstrel> | Okay then. |
| 01:13 | <@McMartin> | The project here is to configure a computer to serve as a wireless access point that masquerades as somebody elses's DS doing the same thing, so that people on different continents can present to their DSes as if they are all in the same room. |
| 01:13 | < celticminstrel> | I see. |
| 01:13 | < celticminstrel> | Sounds like an interesting project. |
| 01:14 | <@McMartin> | Hence my "you know, your 'I just want to...' line is kind of misplaced" comment~ |
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| 01:14 | < celticminstrel> | Huh? |
| 01:15 | < Corra`> | yes! |
| 01:15 | < Corra`> | that's it exactly |
| 01:15 | < Corra`> | although LAN is fine as well as ad-hoc |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | Corra: My point is, this isn't a "just .... " thing, because as far as any of us know nobody's ever successfully done it before. |
| 01:22 | < Corra`> | hmmm.... hmm..... |
| 01:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: no-one's successfully done ad hoc before, but I thought LAN was possible with just normal IP routing trickery? |
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| 01:25 | < Corra`> | ouch, back. |
| 01:25 | <@McMartin> | TF: I dunno. I haven't managed it either way, but maybe I wasn't trying hard enough. |
| 01:25 | <@McMartin> | (Or was using the wrong games) |
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| 01:28 | < Corra`> | maybe just bridging the LANs is the solution. |
| 01:29 | < Corra`> | I was hoping any VLAN utility would do that, but "it is incorrect." |
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| 02:05 | < Corra`> | it seems pptp is exactly what I want |
| 02:15 | < Corra`> | apparently, windows can dial into a remote network. |
| 02:15 | < Corra`> | but will that apply to all computers on the network? |
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| 03:17 | < Corra`> | hmmm.... |
| 03:18 | < Corra`> | actually.. ToxicFrog, if I only have one DS, and it is bridged to the hamachi connection, then wouldn't it be sent from the hamachi ip anyway? |
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| 06:24 | | * Derakon eyes his thumb drive, wonders where in blazes its capacity has gone. |
| 06:25 | <@Derakon> | Oh wait, there's some hidden directories here. |
| 06:25 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, 1.8GB in .Trashes. What the fuck, guys. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Nov 18 08:31:38 2010 |
| --- Log opened Thu Nov 18 16:55:23 2010 |
| 16:55 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-b4529b0c.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 16:55 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 24 nicks [8 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal] |
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| 17:12 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 17:14 | | * Derakon achieves 40% compression in his notes. |
| 17:14 | <@Derakon> | "Because the effects are so minor" => "b/c t/ fx r/ so minor" |
| 17:24 | < Tarinaky> | ttyl xxxx becca |
| 17:24 | < Tarinaky> | Sorry. Just made me think of 'text speak' suddenly xD |
| 17:25 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, but I actually have a legitimate reason to abbreviate~ |
| 17:25 | < Tarinaky> | In fairness, so do text speakers. They're being charged per byte. |
| 17:26 | <@Derakon> | They're charged per message, with each message having a cap of 140 characters. That's different. |
| 17:26 | <@Derakon> | If you can fit your entire semantic content into 140 characters without abbreviating, then the only remaining reason to abbreviate is convenience. |
| 17:27 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-473f8685.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 17:28 | < Tarinaky> | In fairness, typing on a numeric keypad isn't easy. |
| 17:28 | < Tarinaky> | It used to take me f-ing forever to send a text message :/ |
| 17:28 | <@Derakon> | My phone's six years old and has predictive word selection though. |
| 17:28 | <@Derakon> | So you don't actually need to hit 2 three times to select 'c'. |
| 17:29 | < Tarinaky> | My experience has been that predictive word selection is worse than useless. |
| 17:29 | <@Derakon> | Your experience differs from mine. *shrug* |
| 17:30 | <@Namegduf> | My phone has a keyboard. |
| 17:30 | <@Namegduf> | Couple of years old. |
| 17:30 | < Tarinaky> | My current one has a keyboard - hence my use of the past tense. |
| 17:31 | < Tarinaky> | My current phone has new problems to annoy me with. |
| 17:31 | < Tarinaky> | +for the next 8 years |
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| 18:22 | | * gnolam hits Tarinaky over the head with T9. |
| 18:22 | < gnolam> | There hasn't been a good reason to abbreviate even in text messages for the last, oh, 5 years or so. |
| 18:22 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: I never abbreviated |
| 18:23 | < Tarinaky> | I just got about a sentence into my text message and declared: "Fuck it." |
| 18:23 | < Tarinaky> | And decided whatever it was could wait until they saw me irl. |
| 18:23 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: Also - what's that reason? |
| 18:24 | < gnolam> | ? |
| 18:24 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: The reason that there hasn't been a good reason to abbreviate for 5 years. |
| 18:31 | < gnolam> | Predictive text messaging got useful. |
| 18:32 | <@Derakon> | As noted, my phone is six years old, and it has useful predictive text messaging. |
| 18:32 | <@Derakon> | I don't know what's wrong with yours. |
| 18:32 | < gnolam> | With the odd exception. |
| 18:32 | < gnolam> | Like my phone's "make up words" logic. |
| 18:32 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 18:32 | <@Derakon> | But seriously, predictive text is not even a very hard problem. |
| 18:32 | < gnolam> | Which lacks every common suffix in this language, but strings together completely random syllables and claim they are words. |
| 18:33 | <@Derakon> | Each button pressed corresponds to three or four possible letters, and as you add more buttons the number of valid words that a sequence could conform to becomes smaller and smaller, very quickly. |
| 18:33 | < gnolam> | My record so far is when I tried to type "sediment". It suggested some bizarre 8 character nonsense word instead. |
| 18:33 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 18:33 | < gnolam> | "Fine, " I thought. "I'll just add it then." |
| 18:34 | < gnolam> | The next time I typed "sediment", it also suggested... "redindntatkagsingsiviigdu". |
| 18:35 | < Tarinaky> | <Derakon> Each button pressed corresponds to three or four possible letters, and as you add more buttons the number of valid words that a sequence could conform to becomes smaller and smaller, very quickly. << That's not the problem. The problem is having the words to match the input against. |
| 18:35 | < gnolam> | I also suspect that my phone is a closet extremist. Type "maxi" and it suggests "nazi". Type "Simon" and it suggests "Phnom". Etc. |
| 18:36 | <@Derakon> | ...phnom? |
| 18:36 | < gnolam> | As in Phnom Penh, I guess. |
| 18:36 | < gnolam> | It's a Khmer Rouge. |
| 18:36 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 18:37 | < gnolam> | Sadly, Ericssony have purged the more... interesting... suggestions their dictionary has had. |
| 18:37 | < gnolam> | I think my phone (from... err... '06?) was the last model to have them. |
| 18:37 | < Tarinaky> | The only two phones I've ever owned were a Nokia 3310 and an LG360. |
| 18:37 | < gnolam> | Such great, often used words as "negerjul" ("negro christmas") and "dubbelfitta" ("double c**t"). |
| 18:38 | | * Derakon facepalms. |
| 18:39 | <@Derakon> | My phone's a Motorola clamshell of some kind. |
| 18:40 | < RichardBarrell> | gnolam: you just reminded me of an epic comment that I once saw on a local government consultation that my company was running. |
| 18:40 | < RichardBarrell> | gnolam: it's nicknamed the "cuntssack rant". :) |
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| 18:41 | < Tarinaky> | RichardBarrell: ? |
| 18:42 | < RichardBarrell> | The angry person accidentally missed some punctuation and coined a new swearword. |
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| 18:46 | < gnolam> | I think my favourite English swearword right now is "twunt" though. Combine two dirty words and you have a new, /technically/ meaningless word that everyone still immediately knows what it in fact means. |
| 18:48 | < RichardBarrell> | Also, the context for that word was great. |
| 18:48 | < RichardBarrell> | "cuntssack them funny handshake wankers", if I recall correctly. |
| 18:48 | < gnolam> | :D |
| 18:48 | < gnolam> | The leading "Yellow Pages"-type company here recently did an ad campaign. |
| 18:48 | < RichardBarrell> | Nothing like a Masonic conspiracy theory to go along with your impassioned screaming at the internet. |
| 18:49 | < gnolam> | They placed a big box in a square in Stockholm and started a contest where whoever manages to guess its contents wins whatever is inside it. |
| 18:50 | < RichardBarrell> | Hmm. |
| 18:50 | < gnolam> | The contest was over the Internet, so you had a text field where you could guess... well... anything. |
| 18:50 | < gnolam> | They also put up a huge screen at the same square showing a random selection of people's guesses. |
| 18:50 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Well that won't end well. |
| 18:50 | <@Derakon> | And they forgot to filter it, eh. |
| 18:50 | < gnolam> | ... I think you can guess what happened. |
| 18:50 | <@Derakon> | They should've asked Google for help. |
| 18:51 | <@Derakon> | (Google has screens at their HQ that show scrolling lists of what people are searching for.) |
| 18:51 | <@Derakon> | (They do a very good job of pruning out obscenities and porn. The only ones I noticed were in foreign languages.) |
| 18:52 | < gnolam> | There was no filter, no. But even if you do put a filter in, people will just play the even more amusing sport called "what can we slip through the filter?" instead. |
| 19:05 | <@Namegduf> | Once saw a program showing off the bluetooth names of everyone's devices nearby. |
| 19:06 | <@Namegduf> | They told the room full of students that it filtered profanity. |
| 19:06 | <@Namegduf> | This was a Bad Idea. |
| 19:06 | < Tarinaky> | LOL. |
| 19:09 | <@Namegduf> | It was a particularly amusing instance because everyone involved was in a room getting a quite formal presentation. |
| 19:10 | < Tarinaky> | Namegduf: Why were they displaying everyone's bluetooth id on the computer? |
| 19:10 | < Tarinaky> | Was it some kind of demo on security or...? |
| 19:10 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 19:10 | <@Namegduf> | They were trying to make it some kind of privacy issue, talking about looking at it in public places and such. |
| 19:11 | < Tarinaky> | I think that's a bit of a none issue. All the security threats come from... well... improper implementation. |
| 19:11 | < Tarinaky> | And very, very, bad implementation at that. |
| 19:11 | <@Namegduf> | I decided the fundamental point of their research was without merit, but I still had to sit there. |
| 19:12 | <@Namegduf> | I think the point was that people might be bothered by their name being visible and that would be bad. |
| 19:12 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah. Trouble with that though is it's a bit like being bothered about your IP address being visible on the internet. |
| 19:12 | <@Namegduf> | Stupid, yes. |
| 19:13 | < Tarinaky> | Or your phone number being visible to anyone you call. |
| 19:13 | < Tarinaky> | Lol. |
| 19:13 | < Tarinaky> | Anyway. Gotta go. |
| 19:16 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 19:17 | < gnolam> | What, my IP address being visible? But the flashing banner ad said its program would protect me from that! |
| 19:32 | <@Derakon> | #2004/05/24 now all done by netDSP::goInStateDisconnected() |
| 19:32 | <@Derakon> | # 20040716 BUT WE DO IT ANYWAY TO BE SAVE |
| 19:37 | < gnolam> | >_< |
| 19:37 | < gnolam> | Sebastian? |
| 19:37 | <@Derakon> | Presumably. |
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| 22:07 | <@Derakon> | So, question. |
| 22:08 | <@Derakon> | This program has a function called "Must_Restart", which checks to see if it is running in the main (GUI) thread, and if so, re-calls its invoker in a new thread. |
| 22:08 | | Zed [Zed@Nightstar-556ea8b5.or.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:08 | <@Derakon> | This involves pillaging the stack to determine who the caller is, what their parameters were, what module they were in, etc. |
| 22:09 | <@Derakon> | We call this function in 7 places. |
| 22:09 | <@Derakon> | Is it better to have that function, or to have each of those 7 places manually spin off a thread as needed? |
| 22:31 | < RichardBarrell> | Derakon: GHC Haskell has that as a primitive. |
| 22:32 | <@Derakon> | Unfortunately, "port 19k lines of Python to Haskell" is not on our calendar. :p |
| 22:32 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-465c1f8c.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 22:32 | < RichardBarrell> | Wrong way around. |
| 22:32 | < RichardBarrell> | Oh wait. |
| 22:32 | <@Derakon> | (...geeze, 19k lines. It's really grown since I started working on it, and I've removed a lot of cruft!) |
| 22:33 | < RichardBarrell> | The thing that GHC has is a function "if in the main thread, start a new one and run the given action in it, otherwise just run the action". |
| 22:33 | <@Derakon> | Which is what this function does, too. |
| 22:33 | < RichardBarrell> | I wasn't intending to instruct you that you should use Haskell, so much as chip in with a vote of confidence that, sure, that isn't a spectacularly evil primitive. |
| 22:34 | <@Derakon> | It just involves a fair amount of self-examination that I'm not really happy with. |
| 22:34 | < RichardBarrell> | Though I think that you could do it without examining the stack. Why not use a thread-local global instead, "tls.ismain = True" in the main thread and then deliberately set it False everywhere else? |
| 22:34 | <@Derakon> | Here's the contents of the function: http://paste.ubuntu.com/534047/ |
| 22:35 | < RichardBarrell> | Thread-local storage is in the standard library. |
| 22:37 | <@Derakon> | (As a general rule, any time I see sys._getframe, I start getting worried) |
| 22:39 | < RichardBarrell> | Is there no clean way to do all of your thread spawning before even trying to call the functions that call this? |
| 22:40 | <@Derakon> | You can do "threading.Thread(target = funcIWantToCall, args = (arg1, arg2, ...)).start()" |
| 22:40 | <@Derakon> | Which is rather messier than "funcIWantToCall(arg1, arg2, ...)". |
| 22:40 | <@Derakon> | I can also rewrite each of the functions that uses this thing to be wrappers around other functions that get invoked in separate threads. |
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| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | TLS really does seem like the least bad option here that doesn't involve huge amounts of rewriting. |
| 23:15 | <@Derakon> | TLS? |
| 23:24 | <@Derakon> | ... |
| 23:25 | <@Derakon> | I just discovered that the program I wrote to guide users through uploading their data to the Linux cluster for heavy-duty image processing is not really needed... |
| 23:25 | <@Derakon> | Since there's an OSX version of the image processing library, and users will generally prefer to run that processing locally on their own ubercomputers instead of dealing with the upload-process-download approach. |
| 23:25 | <@Derakon> | Oh, well! |
| 23:34 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 23:42 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 23:49 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Does scp auto-overwrite? |
| 23:49 | <@Derakon> | Yes. |
| 23:49 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-cfae48c3.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Out.] |
| 23:50 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Cool. Can I somehow set it up to send more than one file at a time? |
| 23:51 | < Anno[Laptop]> | I'd like to copy all html files in a folder. |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | scp -r will copy entire folders; scp foo bar baz user@host:dir/ will copy all three files into that dir. |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | You may also want to look into using rsync, which is generally better for this sort of thing. |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon[AFK]: Thread Local Storage. |
| 23:55 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-465c1f8c.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:59 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-465c1f8c.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Fri Nov 19 00:00:14 2010 |