| --- Log opened Fri Nov 19 00:00:14 2010 |
| 00:02 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 00:15 | < Anno[Laptop]> | I'm having difficulties using rsync. |
| 00:15 | < Anno[Laptop]> | It asks for a password, which I give, then spews out: |
| 00:15 | < Anno[Laptop]> | sh: rsync: command not found |
| 00:15 | < Anno[Laptop]> | rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [sender] |
| 00:15 | < Anno[Laptop]> | rsync error: remote command not found (code 127) at io.c(635) [sender=3.0.3] |
| 00:21 | <@Vornicus> | Anno: your remote system must also have rsync to use it. |
| 00:22 | < Anno[Laptop]> | I see. |
| 00:24 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Actually, scp does what I need. |
| 00:24 | < Anno[Laptop]> | I just supplied *.html and it sent all files I wanted. |
| 00:25 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:37 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-8c18200d.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Zzz.] |
| 00:46 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: http://damnyouautocorrect.com/images/divorced.jpg |
| 00:54 | < gnolam> | :D |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | Tarinaky: What the shit |
| 00:57 | < Tarinaky> | McMartin: We had an argument earlier about predictive texts. |
| 00:57 | < Tarinaky> | McMartin: It seemed relevant. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | ha |
| 01:09 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 01:10 | < RichardBarrell> | Tarinaky: damnyouautocorrect doesn't seem so surprising given that nearly all of the people indirectly depicted therein have godawful spelling anyway. |
| 01:10 | < RichardBarrell> | Garbage in, garbage out, after all. |
| 01:12 | < Tarinaky> | I don't frequent the site personally. |
| 01:12 | < Tarinaky> | Someone just linked me the image and I thought of you guys. |
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| 03:41 | | * McMartin tries something Incredibly Ill-Advised, but at least tries it in a VM. |
| 03:42 | <@McMartin> | Behold, the most terrifying feature in Windows: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd744762%28VS.85%29.aspx |
| 03:42 | <@Vornicus> | ;_; |
| --- Log closed Fri Nov 19 04:13:45 2010 |
| --- Log opened Fri Nov 19 04:13:52 2010 |
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| 04:13 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 25 nicks [8 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal] |
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| 04:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | weee my router is broken and I don't have physical access to reboot it right now |
| 04:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Finally got *some* connectivity by using a manual IP and google's dns servers |
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| --- Log closed Fri Nov 19 12:11:57 2010 |
| --- Log opened Fri Nov 19 12:12:01 2010 |
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| 15:43 | < simon_> | gnolam, my little sister's phone suggested the following words: kaeljesu (pet Jesus) instead of laekkert (delicious) and fluedej (fly dough) instead of something I don't recall. |
| 16:26 | < gnolam> | I also discovered some new gems yesterday, among them "judelatte" ("jew latte") and "negerjaktörn" ("negro hunting eagle"). |
| 16:27 | < gnolam> | I kind of wonder what kind of people Sony Ericsson has been hiring... |
| 16:35 | < Alek> | ... |
| 16:40 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 16:45 | < simon_> | gnolam, haha. |
| 16:45 | < simon_> | gnolam, I wonder if it's really that hard to make better guesses at joined word combinations. |
| 16:58 | < Alek> | "Nothing teaches proper typing like a broken Backspace key." |
| 17:00 | < Alek> | http://notalwaysright.com/not-quite-streets-ahead/8521 |
| 17:04 | <@Namegduf> | Haha. |
| 17:07 | | * Alek cries. http://www.techcomedy.com/single/new_stories.php?content_number=84631 |
| 17:17 | <@jerith> | So, it turns out professional ethics require me to refuse to do most of the work my company wants me to do. |
| 17:18 | <@jerith> | My reasoning is thus: |
| 17:18 | <@jerith> | Professionalism requires me to take responsibility for my work. |
| 17:19 | <@jerith> | If I'm instructed to do things that (a) cannot be done or (b) will actively harm the company, I have three options. |
| 17:20 | <@jerith> | I can do the work anyway and get shat on when the sky falls, I can do the work and not care or I can refuse to do the work. |
| 17:21 | <@jerith> | I've been doing the first long enough and the second isn't an option I can live with. |
| 17:21 | < simon_> | jerith, you're being vague. do you work with advanced firearms? |
| 17:22 | <@jerith> | No. I write software. |
| 17:22 | <@jerith> | Except I apparently write software for a technology company that does not trust its engineers. |
| 17:24 | < simon_> | so it's not the application of your software, but because of the attitude of the company? |
| 17:24 | <@jerith> | Yes. |
| 17:25 | <@jerith> | I spent two months explaining in exhaustive detail why a particular large-scale project would result in massive financial and customer goodwill loss at best and would most likely destroy the company. |
| 17:26 | <@jerith> | At the end of those two months the project was put on hold (but not cancelled!) because we had a huge deadline looming. |
| 17:26 | < simon_> | did you spend two months explaining, or did you explain across two months? :D |
| 17:27 | < simon_> | hmm |
| 17:27 | <@jerith> | I spent two months doing the necessary investigative and integratio nwork, and running into what I considered to be dealbreaker issues on a weekly basis. |
| 17:27 | < simon_> | I only worked for one software company that gave me free time to do whatever I wanted, so long as I held a speech about why it was great. it was quite frustrating with all of that freedom. |
| 17:28 | < simon_> | s/software company/venture company with no technological insight/ |
| 17:28 | < Alek> | :O |
| 17:28 | <@jerith> | There are three or four things that I could happily and productively spend my time on for substantial benefit to the company. |
| 17:29 | < simon_> | hmm |
| 17:29 | <@jerith> | Except I've been working since mid-September on crappy stuff with insane deadlines that I stated upfront were impossible and explained why. |
| 17:30 | <@jerith> | And guess what? We're so very far behind schedule that it isn't even worth keeping track anymore. |
| 17:31 | <@jerith> | Because it turns out that, surpise surprise, my predictions of "we'll run into problems that can't be foreseen that will add a minimum of months to the dev/test cycle" have come to pass. |
| 17:33 | <@jerith> | Who'd've thought that doing something involving three external providers, each of whom have to deal with multiple additional providers, most of whom are government departments in various countries could possibly be problematic. |
| 17:33 | <@jerith> | (Moral of this story: If anyone wants you to write a system to sell domain names, shoot them in the face and then say no.) |
| 17:35 | < simon_> | I'd assume that that market is already competitive enough. |
| 17:35 | < simon_> | maybe if you had a Potion of Less Bureaucracy +3 and a few contacts... |
| 17:35 | | * Alek just applied to a web helper and a web admin positions, wish him luck. |
| 17:36 | <@jerith> | Good luck, Alek. |
| 17:36 | < simon_> | Alek, what's a web helper? |
| 17:36 | < Alek> | a web programmer who basically needs to copy-paste code together into various pages. |
| 17:36 | <@jerith> | simon_: There are two TLDs that wer are contractually required to sell that need signed paperwork on every registration. |
| 17:36 | < Alek> | and the admin just makes sure several sites are running smoothly. |
| 17:36 | < simon_> | jerith, hahah. |
| 17:37 | < Alek> | so I SHOULD be qualified. <_< |
| 17:37 | < simon_> | jerith, did you discover that in the process? |
| 17:37 | < simon_> | jerith, is that in the US? |
| 17:37 | <@jerith> | I discovered that by spending five minutes reading the documentation. |
| 17:37 | <@jerith> | That's Italy and Austria. |
| 17:37 | < simon_> | jerith, sounds like a general engineering challenge to avoid making that an overwhelming task. |
| 17:37 | <@jerith> | (Well, Austria requires signed paperwork to /cancel/, which is even worse.) |
| 17:37 | < Alek> | what's austria's tld? |
| 17:38 | <@jerith> | .AT |
| 17:38 | < Alek> | .it is probably much in demand for IT geeks. :P |
| 17:38 | < Alek> | and .at might be too. |
| 17:38 | <@jerith> | If that were the only engineering challenge, I'd be ecstatic. |
| 17:38 | < Tarinaky> | jerith: Signed by the customer, yeah? |
| 17:38 | <@jerith> | Alek: dot@dotat.at -- it's a real email address. |
| 17:38 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: Yes. |
| 17:38 | < Alek> | ahahaha |
| 17:39 | < Alek> | love it. |
| 17:39 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-ca9721ae.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:39 | < Tarinaky> | jerith: "Thanks for completing a pointless web form, please wait 5 days for us to snail mail you a deadtree form." |
| 17:39 | | * Alek ponders placing a "job wanted" ad for a "Senor Web Developer"... |
| 17:39 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: They can print and fax it. |
| 17:40 | <@jerith> | Alek: In Spanish? |
| 17:40 | <@Namegduf> | Man, even IT jobs are going to Mexico? |
| 17:40 | <@jerith> | Even the "easy" TLDs are hard. |
| 17:40 | <@jerith> | Spain, for example, has a bunch of undocumented validation. |
| 17:41 | <@jerith> | Some of our test registrations have come back with an error message along the lines of "validation failed -- this is often because the post code doesn't match the address". In Spanish. |
| 17:41 | < Alek> | whaaaat http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/crg/2067499515.html |
| 17:43 | < Tarinaky> | Alek: Run a mile. |
| 17:43 | < simon_> | Alek, does "Compensation: no pay" suggest that it's no charge? |
| 17:43 | < Alek> | that's not it. |
| 17:43 | < Alek> | it's the location. |
| 17:43 | < Alek> | and planning a year in advance. |
| 17:43 | < Alek> | Taki: what? |
| 17:44 | <@jerith> | If I knew a decent business person I trusted, I'd start my own company and be lead dev. |
| 17:45 | < Tarinaky> | Alek: From making somebodies website for free when it sounds like they're a third wheel themselves. |
| 17:45 | | * Alek high-fives jer |
| 17:45 | <@jerith> | The guy I'd want as CTO resigned a couple of weeks ago and is going to work for Facebook. |
| 17:45 | <@jerith> | Alek: ^5 |
| 17:45 | <@jerith> | I don't want to be the boss. I'd be a crap boss. |
| 17:45 | <@jerith> | But I want a boss I can trust. |
| 17:46 | < Alek> | amen. |
| 17:46 | <@jerith> | More importantly, I want a boss who trusts me. |
| 17:46 | < Alek> | amen. |
| 17:46 | < Alek> | actually, what I had in mind personally was to be my own boss, but have someone else I could trust to handle the business side. |
| 17:47 | <@jerith> | Well, my current boss trusts me. It's the C-level people who are the problem. |
| 17:47 | < Alek> | cause. yeah. I CAN'T trust anyone not a tech to know what a tech needs. -_- |
| 17:47 | <@jerith> | Our current CTO isn't bad. He isn't great, but he's a net win. |
| 17:48 | < Alek> | yeah, see, he's a T. so he (theoretically) knows what a tech needs. |
| 17:48 | < Alek> | a CEO probably wouldn't, nor a CFO. |
| 17:48 | < Alek> | even CIOs can be quite clueless. |
| 17:48 | <@jerith> | The CEO and COO... well, they're the reason I've told my boss that I will no longer write a single line of code that I don't firmly believe is the right thing to do. |
| 17:49 | < celticminstrel> | What's the O, F, and I in there? |
| 17:49 | < Alek> | Financial, Information |
| 17:49 | < Alek> | Operations? |
| 17:49 | <@jerith> | Operations. |
| 17:49 | < Alek> | what does Operations do? |
| 17:49 | <@jerith> | Depends. |
| 17:50 | | * Alek should think about replacing this keyboard soon, I and O are starting to not register sometimes. among others. |
| 17:50 | < Alek> | so, Operations are the shit-catchers? |
| 17:50 | <@jerith> | Replace it now. Go and buy a new one as soon as we've finished talking. |
| 17:50 | <@jerith> | The COO is basically in charge of making things happen. |
| 17:50 | | * Alek chokes, coughs. http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/dmg/2068592024.html |
| 17:51 | < Alek> | jer: ehh. can't afford to. yet. |
| 17:51 | < Alek> | hopefully I get a reply from one of the web postings. |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | A keyboard that isn't completely crap shouldn't cost more than the price of a reasonable steak. |
| 17:51 | < Alek> | or from the company I applied to on Wednesday, to work at Motorola. |
| 17:51 | < Alek> | I can't afford a steak. |
| 17:51 | | Anno[Laptop] is now known as EdSimmons |
| 17:52 | < Alek> | I have $1 in wallet. -$350 in bank. |
| 17:52 | <@jerith> | Life's too short to use a broken keyboard. |
| 17:52 | < Alek> | lol |
| 17:52 | < Alek> | heh. for an emachines, this keyboard lasted pretty long. |
| 17:52 | < Alek> | at least 5 years. |
| 17:52 | < celticminstrel> | emachines? |
| 17:52 | < Alek> | probably longer. |
| 17:52 | <@jerith> | Which doesn't help you now. |
| 17:53 | < Alek> | a company that sells/sold refurbished (rebuilt, mostly) PCs. |
| 17:53 | <@jerith> | I can kill a keyboard in a couple of years. |
| 17:53 | < Alek> | crappy ones, mostly. but cheap. |
| 17:54 | | * jerith actually has enough money in the bank to like his current lifestyle for half a year. |
| 17:54 | < Alek> | anywho. that last link. |
| 17:54 | < Alek> | should I apply? >_> |
| 17:54 | < celticminstrel> | My keyboard is 5 years old. It has no problems worth mentioning. |
| 17:54 | < celticminstrel> | How do you kill a keyboard in two? |
| 17:54 | <@jerith> | s/like/live/ |
| 17:54 | <@jerith> | celticminstrel: By typing on it a lot. |
| 17:54 | < Alek> | cm: he's a hardcore coder/dev |
| 17:54 | < Alek> | so yeah. probably 12 hours a day. :P |
| 17:55 | < celticminstrel> | I suppose I might not type quite that much. |
| 17:55 | < celticminstrel> | Since I have classes and such. |
| 17:55 | <@jerith> | It's still kind of usable then, but not comfortable. |
| 17:55 | < celticminstrel> | ? |
| 17:56 | <@jerith> | My previous laptop had a keyboard that required *slightly* more pressure at the end of the key's travel than it should. |
| 17:56 | <@jerith> | This meant that either I dropped half my characters or I hammered it hard enough that my fingers hurt after a few minutes. |
| 18:06 | | Tarinaky is now known as Caeldir |
| 18:31 | < Alek> | umwhaaaaaaaaaaat http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/lab/2066992921.html |
| 18:31 | < Alek> | who posted a car for sale in the general labor jobs section? |
| 18:36 | < celticminstrel> | XD |
| 18:37 | < Alek> | ... |
| 18:37 | < Alek> | they posted it in about a dozen different sections in jobs. -_- |
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| 19:30 | < gnolam> | Alek: you don't buy keyboards. You get them for free at the electronics recycling bin. ;) |
| 19:30 | < gnolam> | jerith: Ouch |
| 19:33 | < Alek> | gnolam: yeah, where? |
| 19:33 | < Alek> | I don't work at a place that has one. |
| 19:33 | < Alek> | I don't work, period, at this time. -_- |
| 19:36 | < gnolam> | Sorry. I assumed you lived in a civilized place where having electronics recycling stations was standard. ;-) |
| 19:54 | < Alek> | no, I live in America. :( |
| 20:00 | | * Alek stabs himself. |
| 20:00 | < Alek> | why did I apply for this? |
| 20:01 | < Alek> | it's a translation job. |
| 20:01 | < Alek> | Russian to English. |
| 20:01 | < Alek> | simple enough, right? |
| 20:02 | < Alek> | except that they have very different grammar. and the source is a video clip. so I can't quite understand everything. -_- |
| 20:02 | < gnolam> | Different grammar from what? |
| 20:02 | < Alek> | each other. |
| 20:03 | < gnolam> | ... well yes, they are different languages. |
| 20:03 | < Alek> | Russian and English have very different grammar. A literal translation of one into the other will generally sound VERY stilted, even if usually the sense comes through. |
| 20:04 | < Alek> | but anyway. |
| 20:04 | < Alek> | the hard part is understanding what's on the clip in the first place. -_- |
| 20:05 | < gnolam> | Some parts of Russian grammar make me think the entire language is an elaborate practical joke. |
| 20:06 | < gnolam> | "Ooh, I know - let's have different cases depending on if there are one, two or six of something!" |
| 20:07 | < gnolam> | "Great idea! But what if we added a whole new case just to indicate location? That would really confuse people asking for directions!" |
| 20:08 | < celticminstrel> | Ooh, making a joke language. Sounds like an interesting exercise. |
| 20:09 | < gnolam> | "Great idea that too, Ivan. But... what if we're too focused on grammar? We should come up with something that will play hell on people's attempts to speak it, too." |
| 20:09 | < gnolam> | "Good point. What if... what if we changed the pronunciation of every vowel depending on whether it was stressed or not?" |
| 20:09 | < gnolam> | Etc. :P |
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| 20:10 | < celticminstrel> | Probably doesn't apply specifically to Russian but... "Ooh, why don't we make the rules for case formation so complex that the cases look nothing like each other?" |
| 20:10 | <@jerith> | You have a soft spot in your heart for Russian, I see... |
| 20:15 | < gnolam> | It's only the stress thingy that really bugs me. Because without it, it would have been one of the easiest languages on the planet to spell and pronounce. |
| 20:18 | < Alek> | it's not so much stress as it is 2 different forms of each of the 5 base vowels. >_> |
| 20:18 | < Alek> | they're technically separate vowels as far as the alphabet goes. |
| 20:19 | < Alek> | be glad nobody uses the hard sign any more. >_> |
| 20:19 | < Alek> | oh, different forms of several of the consonants too. XD |
| 20:20 | < Alek> | sh/sch. for example. :P |
| 20:20 | < Alek> | and ts/tch might be argued to be another case. |
| 20:21 | < gnolam> | Eh, those are different sounds. |
| 20:22 | < gnolam> | Which is the great thing about Cyrillic - the "one character, one sound" principle. |
| 20:22 | < celticminstrel> | Eh, digraphs aren't that bad... still, one sound per character is nicer. |
| 20:23 | < gnolam> | I never did get the hang of the hard sign. |
| 20:24 | < Alek> | it's old-fashioned, archaic. |
| 20:25 | < Alek> | it's basically like the soft sign, a modifier to show how the syllable is supposed to be stressed. However, that stress is generally the default sound, or close enough, so it's been deprecated out of general speech, and only the soft sign is used to show the appropriate stress. |
| 20:26 | < Alek> | as near as I can figure, anyway. |
| 20:31 | < Alek> | I saw a very good example of its use in an old Russian translation of Ben Hur. |
| 20:32 | < Alek> | it was, in fact, right in the title. modifying the n in Ben. to show that it was supposed to be the hard sound, not the soft, "n-tilde" sound. |
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| 20:39 | < gnolam> | Ah. |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | I really need to learn to read Cyrillic. |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | Especially if it's largely phonetic! |
| 20:50 | < gnolam> | Well, get to it. It's not that hard. :) |
| 20:50 | | * McMartin had to learn Greek first. |
| 20:51 | < gnolam> | Hah. I was just about to add "Especially if you have a mathematics background. When you've learned two alphabets (Latin and Greek), adding a third doesn't take much effort." |
| 20:52 | <@McMartin> | I'm still drilling on Greek. Want to get that nailed down before I move on. |
| 20:52 | < Alek> | yeah, latin and greek are a good basis for most European languages. |
| 20:52 | <@McMartin> | ISTR Cyrillic was closer to Greek than Latin was? |
| 20:52 | < Alek> | for a stable tripod, you might wanna add Runic. >_> |
| 20:53 | < Alek> | Cyrillic is basically Greek + Norsk, with Latinates mingled in later, much like English has done. |
| 20:53 | < gnolam> | It's pretty much a mix between Latin and Greek. With a few of the latin letters reversed and some Church Slavonic thrown in for good measure. |
| 20:54 | | * Alek shrugs. |
| 20:54 | < Alek> | the alphabet, yes, mainly Greek letters in Latin form, with some Slavonic. |
| 20:54 | <@McMartin> | Alek: My Runic is weak but not nonexistent. |
| 20:55 | < Alek> | McM: good. :P |
| 20:55 | <@McMartin> | Too many forms to choose from, plus given my social milieu I have to be sufficiently bad at it to not be mistaken for a neo-Nazi >_> |
| 20:55 | < Alek> | and I really mean the languages that used Runic, not the alphabet itself. |
| 20:55 | < Alek> | the core languages. |
| 20:55 | <@McMartin> | Oh |
| 20:55 | <@McMartin> | Eh |
| 20:55 | <@McMartin> | I already know English >_> |
| 20:56 | < Alek> | English is a bastard language of Latin and Runic descent. |
| 20:56 | <@McMartin> | So that's two legs of the tripod right there. |
| 20:57 | <@McMartin> | More seriously, if I were to go that route, it would involve being more serious about Eald Aenglisc. |
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| 21:18 | <@McMartin> | [I7]/008 baf says, "Now I'm imagining uses for an 'O' keyword, that allows you to alter the person in which you code refers to an object. Like, 'O wooden table, thou art in the dining room. Thy description is "Deep scratches mar its surface."'" |
| 21:21 | <@jerith> | Nice. |
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| 22:46 | | Caeldir is now known as Tarinaky |
| 22:47 | | EdSimmons is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 23:00 | < gnolam> | Bluergh. |
| 23:00 | < gnolam> | M code. |
| 23:00 | < gnolam> | Abdul al-Hazred's own programming language. |
| 23:01 | < Tarinaky> | Iä Iä Gnolam Fhtagn! |
| 23:08 | <@jerith> | Hastur! Hastur! Hasturggghh*thud* |
| 23:08 | <@Namegduf> | Programming leads to Satan. |
| 23:08 | <@McMartin> | hastursaur hates the sound of his own name |
| 23:08 | <@McMartin> | It's a bad idea to have more than one hastursaur in the same room! |
| 23:18 | < Tarinaky> | Who? |
| 23:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:48 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 23:49 | < Alek> | heh. |
| 23:49 | < Alek> | who watches Leverage? |
| 23:49 | <@McMartin> | "Do I contain myself? Very well then, I contain myself. I am large; I contain... recursion." |
| 23:56 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-c466392a.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Food, then bed.] |
| 23:57 | < Alek> | So I imagine Hardison plotting, with Ford being unavailable. |
| 23:57 | < Alek> | Hardison: "All right, here's the plan. Step 1: We summon Hastur." Parker: "Hastur?" Hardison: "Hast... Yeah, you heard me." |
| --- Log closed Sat Nov 20 00:00:16 2010 |