| --- Log opened Tue Oct 21 00:00:40 2008 |
| 00:00 | < Vornicus> | SO1 was amazing in the graphics department |
| 00:01 | < Vornicus> | I didn't know SNES could do that. |
| 00:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Likewise. |
| 00:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Technically, it was a marvel. |
| 00:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gameplay-wise...less so. |
| 00:02 | < Attilla> | Hmm. Is a %f a way to request/print a real number? |
| 00:02 | < Attilla> | (In C) |
| 00:02 | < Vornicus> | %f prints a floating point number in decimal format. |
| 00:03 | < Attilla> | Hmm. Does that work inversely with scanf? |
| 00:03 | <@gnolam> | Yes. |
| 00:03 | | * Attilla ponders why his script is not working |
| 00:03 | < Attilla> | Maybe I set up the matrix wrong |
| 00:04 | < Vornicus> | %e does it in scientific format; %g in whichever of the two is shorter. |
| 00:04 | < Attilla> | I have declared it as "double matr[2][2];" for a 2x2 matrix of doubles? |
| 00:04 | <@gnolam> | Yes. |
| 00:04 | <@gnolam> | But note that you should really avoid scanf() unless you (A) Know exactly what you're doing or (B) Never intend to release the code to anyone, ever. |
| 00:05 | < Attilla> | Yes, I know you C people hate scanf, my lecturer told me about this. But this isn't really for release and I probably know what i'm doing. It's directing to the pointers and all that. |
| 00:05 | < Attilla> | That's it, i'm going to go quote this and see why it won't work. |
| 00:05 | < Attilla> | If I can tell how to copy text in PuTTY |
| 00:06 | < Attilla> | (I'm doing this via a terminal) |
| 00:06 | <@gnolam> | Just drag an area to select. |
| 00:06 | <@gnolam> | +with the mouse |
| 00:07 | <@gnolam> | And it'll do that awful Unix copy-on-select. |
| 00:08 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 00:08 | <@Attilla> | http://rafb.net/p/SX9RbA92.html |
| 00:09 | <@Attilla> | Just right now i'm testing on inputting (and outputting) data to a matrix |
| 00:10 | <@Attilla> | So that I can manipulate it at a later point. |
| 00:10 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. Try it with %lf in scanf(). |
| 00:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah |
| 00:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | man 3 printf, man 3 scanf |
| 00:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | %f is double in printf, float in scanf; %lf is double in scanf |
| 00:11 | <@Attilla> | Ah, okay yeah. It now works. Cheers. |
| 00:22 | < Vornicus> | arg. So many things that I go "dammit need art" |
| 00:22 | <@gnolam> | I know the feeling. |
| 00:23 | < Vornicus> | which then blocks my next moves. |
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| 03:32 | | * Vornicus randomly re-counts eventually required art assets for his KB remake. |
| 03:38 | | * Vornicus then discovers that he actually has all this shit written down, so he doesn't have to re-count. |
| 03:39 | < Shoukanjuu> | My DMC3 torrent is done. Also, cool beans. I never remember to write stuff down and end up doing things over again v_V |
| 03:43 | <@Reiver> | Vorn! |
| 03:43 | <@Reiver> | What do you think of the new kings bounty? |
| 03:43 | <@Reiver> | It is apparently rather trippy. |
| 03:44 | < Vornicus> | I haven't seen anything about it but one review that described it as Rather Trippy. |
| 03:44 | <@Reiver> | Fair. |
| 03:44 | <@Reiver> | Hm. |
| 03:44 | < Vornicus> | The only problem is, it's a 2008 game, and plays like one. The original is more my dad's speed. |
| 03:45 | | * Reiver nods. |
| 03:46 | < Vornicus> | Which is why I am vaguely insistent on remaking it for him. |
| 03:47 | < Vornicus> | Which reminds me; I should apply reverse engineering to the save file format. |
| 03:57 | <@Reiver> | ... is that nessisary? |
| 03:58 | < Vornicus> | need it to get the random placement stats right; it's a hell of a lot easier than finding the worldgen algorithms. |
| 03:59 | < Vornicus> | and then translating them from assembler into something I can work with. |
| 04:00 | <@Reiver> | Aaah, okay. |
| 04:00 | <@Reiver> | You don't expect it to be truly random? |
| 04:01 | <@McMartin> | It's definitely not, for the Genesis case. |
| 04:01 | <@McMartin> | That's why it's TASable. |
| 04:01 | <@McMartin> | Luck manipulation 4tw |
| 04:01 | < Vornicus> | I know it to be on a PRNG |
| 04:01 | <@McMartin> | "M'lord, you left the staff of Rulership in the back garden again." |
| 04:01 | < Vornicus> | No, no |
| 04:01 | < Vornicus> | /on the front steps/ |
| 04:01 | <@McMartin> | Ah, yes, they did improve it |
| 04:02 | <@McMartin> | Originally they had to walk a step or two. |
| 04:02 | < Vornicus> | Still have to |
| 04:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | A whole 25 frames! |
| 04:02 | < Vornicus> | You start in the square in front of the castle gate, which can never contain the Scepter. |
| 04:02 | < Vornicus> | Anyway. |
| 04:03 | < Vornicus> | it's not a uniform or normal distribution: you have cash, income, spell power, spell count, free spells, free armies, dwellings, map reveals, nav charts, artifacts, teleports, and a few others on the map. |
| 04:05 | < Vornicus> | Then your enemy armies are three armies chosen randomly from the list of available armies for the continent; unowned castle armies are five chosen from that list; owned castles are pregenerated. |
| 04:06 | < Vornicus> | Then you've got spell distributions; there's 26 towns and 14 spells, and only one is guaranteed; I have to figure out whether you're guaranteed to have all spells purchasable (I'm not sure, and if there's no guarantee it's only a 7% or so chance) |
| 04:07 | < Shoukanjuu> | Sounds...very complicated. |
| 04:07 | < Vornicus> | It's worldgen. |
| 04:07 | < Vornicus> | It's fucking complicated. |
| 04:08 | <@McMartin> | Welcome to the world of Western RPGs. |
| 04:08 | <@McMartin> | Before Final Fantasy devoured the brains of the now-middle-aged youth. |
| 04:08 | < Shoukanjuu> | :P |
| 04:08 | < Shoukanjuu> | To be honest, FF didn't devour my brains >_> |
| 04:08 | <@McMartin> | No, but it redefined what CRPG meant. |
| 04:09 | <@McMartin> | People don't think Ultima IV anymore. =P |
| 04:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | I've always just called them "RPGs" |
| 04:09 | <@McMartin> | Tabletop gamers get snitty about it~ |
| 04:09 | < Vornicus> | But my best bet, unless I can twist the arm of someone with much more knowledge of assembler than myself, is to reverse engineer the (probably simple) data file format and run a lot of monte carlo. |
| 04:10 | < Shoukanjuu> | Still, such a system is amazing... |
| 04:11 | < Vornicus> | It's actually rather simple. It just /looks/ complicated if you bother figuring out all the interactions |
| 04:11 | < Vornicus> | I mean, dude, seriously, look at FF8's stuff. |
| 04:12 | < Shoukanjuu> | What about FF8's stuff? <_< |
| 04:12 | < Vornicus> | Well, there's the spell-stat junctioning, the monster advancement, the summon advancement, the weapon stuff... |
| 04:13 | <@McMartin> | And it's really all one spreadsheet. |
| 04:13 | <@McMartin> | Worldgen is *iterative*. |
| 04:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | Hmmm...Level scaling and all that...yeah, one huge spreadsheet |
| 04:13 | <@McMartin> | FF8 is a crystal structure, fully formed. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | To me, "RPG" is either tabletop or stuff like Ultima, Ps:T, and Fallout, depending on context, and CRPG is always stuff like FF, Septerra Core, Breath of Fire... |
| 04:13 | <@McMartin> | Worldgen is trying to draw a baby based on its DNA. |
| 04:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | I see. |
| 04:14 | <@McMartin> | If I'm making the distinction, I use "tabletop", "western CRPG", "eastern CRPG" |
| 04:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've also seen CRPG used for the former and JRPG for the latter. |
| 04:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't like those because there's sufficient cross-pollination that it can be confusing. |
| 04:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | Yeah. |
| 04:16 | < Shoukanjuu> | So I put everything under RPG with a broad, but not entirely too broad, generalization. |
| 04:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Septerra Core, for example, was made by a US company, written in english and released in north america, but is not remotely an RPG; it uses FF-style gameplay with a few item-based puzzles. |
| 04:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Shoukanjuu: my issue with that is that FF-style games involve no roleplaying. |
| 04:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | The characters are entirely predetermined by the writers. |
| 04:16 | < Shoukanjuu> | Yeah :/ |
| 04:16 | <@McMartin> | When I'm in a bad mood, which is most of the time, I define RPG by a lack of gameplay. |
| 04:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're lucky you get a few choices leading to one or two similar endings. |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or you get lots of choices leading to lots of nonstandard game overs. |
| 04:17 | <@McMartin> | If there is any gameplay, it because a that-kind-of-game with RPG elements. |
| 04:17 | <@McMartin> | (Exception: TRPG) |
| 04:17 | < Vornicus> | Fortunately (thank god) the /map/ never changes. I don't have to RE that |
| 04:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | :P |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: my objection to that is that "RPG" here has been bastardized to mean "class/level system, skill trees, equipment" rather than "roleplaying, characterization, player-mutable personalities and storyline" |
| 04:17 | <@McMartin> | Since that's what tabletop got bastardized to, I'm OK with this~ |
| 04:18 | | * McMartin waves his four Munchkin sets. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I use it in the latter sense, which makes Fallout and RPG and Final Fantasy very, very not |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | s/and/an/ |
| 04:18 | | * Reiver still wants to take some of the semi-modern fractal/geological world generators out there and apply extra Geology/Ecology to them, and end up with a fully formed random world generator. To the point that it is reasonably realistic, and can then be iterated down to let you zoom the suckers. |
| 04:18 | < Vornicus> | (though that /would/ be an interesting challenge, and a hell of a way to improve replayability of KBRemake: create some random continent generators.) |
| 04:19 | | * Vornicus gives Reiver Dwarf Fortress. |
| 04:19 | | * Reiver eats it. |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | But, yeah. Contrast a CRPG with Fallout, where the personality of your avatar is entirely determined by the player, your actions determine how NPCs and party members react to you, and furthermore there are lots of different endings for each location in the game which are determined by what you do and recounted to you after you complete the game. |
| 04:19 | < Vornicus> | I said Dwarf /Fortress/, not Dwarf Bread. |
| 04:20 | <@Reiver> | Of course, I'd then want to apply the Medieval Populations essay numbers to it, and with rules on geographical favouritism etc, then be able to /populate/ that world |
| 04:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I tended to make things worse by my presence, at least in FO2 ;.; |
| 04:20 | <@Reiver> | ... If it was dwarf bread, I wouldn't eat it. |
| 04:20 | | * McMartin gives Reiver a subjunctive. |
| 04:21 | <@Reiver> | And be able to literally spit out pre-generated fantasy worlds. I, uh, don't know what I'd do with it then, but it'd be pretty cool~ |
| 04:21 | | * Reiver has been fiddling with a homebrew continent, and quickly discovering a lot of this stuff is pretty heuristical, and methodical. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is why I feel justified in declaring Fallout-style and FF-style games totally different genres that just happen to share some superficial elements, in much the same way, say, Starcraft shares superficial elements with Diablo. Or, for that matter, Half-Life. |
| 04:22 | <@McMartin> | I believe the word you want there is "procedural", Reiver. |
| 04:22 | <@Reiver> | McM: That's the bunny! |
| 04:22 | <@McMartin> | "Methodical" already means something else. |
| 04:22 | <@Reiver> | But yes, it's fairly procedural, and actually straightforward |
| 04:22 | | * Vornicus breaks out struct.unpack |
| 04:22 | <@Reiver> | It would mostly take a lot of coding to get a computer to do simulations we do trivially in our head, but I think heightmaps would help a lot there... |
| 04:23 | <@Reiver> | Randomgenerated it from a program that simulates tectonic movements (which was a good start - I suck at those), found the mountains, colored them in. Chose a latitude and size. Picked a direction for prevaling wind currents, which promptly worked out where the rain shadows fell, along with biome distribution. |
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| 04:29 | <@Reiver> | mumble. |
| 04:29 | <@McMartin> | $\o/$ |
| 04:29 | <@Reiver> | Anyway, my main thought is just how big a project it would be. >_> |
| 04:29 | | * Reiver suspects the actual heightfeild interactions and the like would get very complicated very quickly. |
| 04:29 | <@McMartin> | Well, midpoint displacement fractal heightmaps are easy |
| 04:30 | | * McMartin points at Sable |
| 04:30 | <@Reiver> | Hm |
| 04:30 | <@Reiver> | Can a fractal be tweaked to fake large scale geology to small scale geology? |
| 04:30 | <@McMartin> | You'll probably want one that isn't MPD. |
| 04:30 | <@Reiver> | MPD? |
| 04:30 | <@McMartin> | Mid-Point Displacement |
| 04:31 | <@Reiver> | Ah yes, I'd want it to be working out the edges rather than the averages |
| 04:32 | <@McMartin> | That's not really what that means, but yeah |
| 04:32 | <@McMartin> | I should add a flood mode to Sable |
| 04:32 | < Vornicus> | Wouldn't that be, like, one polygon addition? |
| 04:32 | <@McMartin> | Depends on how awesome their graphics cards are. |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | Pre-terrain Sable had this problem where my Homongous Quad didn't render because all four points were off the clipping plin |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | plane |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | So it also didn't bother to fill |
| 04:34 | | * Vornicus finds the money offset. |
| 04:35 | <@McMartin> | Is that like the money quote? |
| 04:35 | < Vornicus> | sort of. |
| 04:35 | <@McMartin> | (Dude. That offset is money.) |
| 04:36 | | * Vornicus eyes. |
| 04:38 | < Vornicus> | Okay. I know I can get money above 65K; can I do the same with commission...? |
| 04:39 | <@Reiver> | Vorn: Find the Let's Play of KB |
| 04:39 | <@Reiver> | It discusses the hard limits that they ran into whilst breaking the thing. |
| 04:39 | < Vornicus> | A good plan; it does regularly show the character screen. |
| 04:39 | <@Reiver> | It also shows how to Hilariously Break the game, and discusses hardcoded limitations. |
| 04:40 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, I saw it |
| 04:40 | <@Reiver> | (Some of which you may wish to volintarily remove, but it's an excelent dissection of gameplay nonetheless.) |
| 04:44 | < Vornicus> | gnah. Can't read this right now, too many things to find |
| 04:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wait. The LP, or the TAS? |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | LP hilariously breaks game |
| 04:49 | <@McMartin> | TAS hilariously exploits PRNG. |
| 04:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but I don't recall it going too much into the internals beyond "this is a hard limit, the game breaks in entertaining way X if exceeded" |
| 04:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, I should reread it. |
| 04:49 | | * McMartin hasn't read it at all yet. |
| 04:49 | < Vornicus> | the LP pulls the Raise Control - Clone - Time Stop trick. |
| 04:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh yes |
| 04:50 | | * McMartin decides it's time to leave the office. |
| 04:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, definitely need to reread |
| 04:52 | < Vornicus> | ...ohho. |
| 04:52 | | * Vornicus finds the offset to the in-game map. ...but, uh. |
| 04:54 | < Vornicus> | okay, how the shit does this work? |
| 04:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | [$NAME, a new game is being created. Please wait while I perform godlike actions to make this game playable.] |
| 05:01 | | * Vornicus is /definitely/ putting that in. |
| 05:01 | < Vornicus> | and making sure it stays up for long enough to read - it stays up for one frame on his own machine. |
| 05:04 | <@Reiver> | Suggestion: |
| 05:05 | <@Reiver> | It stays up while: 1) The world is being generated 2) A Minimum of 5 seconds 3) Unless a key is hit. |
| 05:06 | <@Reiver> | Added suggestion: If the world is still being generated when a key is hit, treat that as a "Yeah, don't wait for it afterwards plz". |
| 05:07 | <@Reiver> | Places that only let you hit OK -after- something short has happened get irritating, 'cuz it means you have to wait to provide your user input that you're feeling impatient~ |
| 05:10 | | * Vornicus examines. Can't figure out for the life of him how the game handles, among other things, unexplored areas. |
| 05:10 | < Vornicus> | unless it's hiding in rle data or some such madness. |
| 05:14 | | * Serah rawrs. |
| 05:14 | <@Serah> | Sorry Vorn, I would've had drafts for you today, but work was workish instead of regularly screw off-ish. |
| 05:15 | < Vornicus> | Serah: I can't remember what I had you working on... :) |
| 05:15 | <@Serah> | Space ships. |
| 05:15 | < Vornicus> | Oh! Yes, thank you. |
| 05:15 | | * Vornicus has that one fallen off the back of the stove. |
| 05:15 | <@Serah> | Maybe tomorrow likely not. |
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| 05:40 | < Vornicus> | okay. Definitely don't know where the masking is. |
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| 06:37 | < Vornicus> | Figuring out what the Ring Of Heroism does would be good too. |
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| 06:39 | < Vornicus> | and ARG why am I getting SRMD ideas for some of the info pages? |
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| 06:52 | < Vornicus> | I am actually beginning to fear that it generates specific treasures lazily. |
| 06:53 | < Shoukanjuu> | I accidentally a entire treasure? |
| 06:54 | < Vornicus> | whut |
| 07:06 | < Shoukanjuu> | Accidentally is apparently the verb. |
| 07:07 | < Vornicus> | whut |
| 07:07 | < Shoukanjuu> | That's the joke. |
| 07:07 | < Shoukanjuu> | Someone who didn't speak English very well said it. |
| 07:08 | | * McMartin has come to a decision. |
| 07:08 | | * McMartin must go to work for Intel so that he may write up specs for a Single Register, Multiple Data architecture. |
| 07:08 | < Vornicus> | >_< |
| 07:14 | < Vornicus> | But yeah: in King's Bounty there are 17 villains and 8 artifacts (16 if you count the nav charts and map reveals). What if the character screen had two large paintings with the artifacts and the villains, respectively, and they'd appear in the painting or grey out as you go through the game? |
| 07:15 | < Vornicus> | (currently you see the artifacts and nav charts as tiles in the character screen, and you 'see' villains you've defeated as holes in the puzzle.) |
| 07:17 | < Vornicus> | Thing is, there's a lot more room than the 488x316 the original had to work with on a modern screen. |
| 07:20 | <@Reiver> | McM: You want to do this? |
| 07:21 | <@Reiver> | Vorn: Viable, though you could also do graphical tricks with transparencies. |
| 07:21 | < Vornicus> | That was the /point/, Reiver |
| 07:21 | < Vornicus> | this is all transparency work. |
| 07:21 | <@Reiver> | Oh, I thought you meant you had two side-by-side paintings. |
| 07:21 | < Vornicus> | oh. yes, that was the aim. |
| 07:22 | < Vornicus> | but all the things show up by using transparency on parts of the painting. |
| 07:22 | <@Reiver> | Yeah, I was thinking keeping the origional, but being able to see the monsters by hovering your mouse over, I dunno, a button or something, and it faded-in the monsters to overlay the map. |
| 07:24 | < Vornicus> | The puzzle map I'm going to keep as-is, mostly - it'll get the portraits from the paintings, I think, and then, well, yes. |
| 07:25 | < Vornicus> | ...Now that I think about it this neatly removes the need for a /separate/ puzzle page - I can fit two paintings, the vital statistics, and the puzzle all on the one page. |
| 07:26 | <@Reiver> | That also works. |
| 07:38 | < Vornicus> | Hrm. Okay, so, current plan is: I have a 5x7 grid; the game board in non-combat takes up 5x5, which gives ten buttons for various screens. Known screen needs are: Army, Character, Magic, Map, Contract, Calendar. |
| 07:39 | < Vornicus> | oh, and Fly for when you can do that, and then maybe Finances or something. |
| 07:43 | < Vornicus> | and Options (including Save) |
| 07:44 | <@jerith> | What game is this? |
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| 07:44 | <@Reiver> | Kings Bounty |
| 07:44 | < Vornicus> | King's Bounty. I'm making a remake, to solve two issues: 1. it doesn't work on modern Macs, 2. I would /love/ to be able to get a permanent chronicle. |
| 07:45 | <@Reiver> | permanent chronicle? |
| 07:45 | <@jerith> | Ah. Never played it. |
| 07:45 | < Vornicus> | A permanent chronicle: given a character file, export a document chronicling all the things that happened in the game. |
| 07:46 | < Vornicus> | oh, and 3. not all the actions are immediately available as clicks. |
| 07:48 | <@Reiver> | Ah yes. |
| 07:50 | < Vornicus> | (specifically: Fly/Land, Dismiss Army, View Map, Go To New Continent, Search Area, Wait Until End Of Week, the options, and /all/ combat commands are not discoverable directly in the game screen, but are in the menubar a long way away) |
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| 07:51 | < Vornicus> | (everything but the options have hotkeys htough) |
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| 15:13 | < Vornicus-Latens> | And the skill level thing would be good to figure out. |
| 15:32 | < Reivles> | I vaugely recall the LP covers that some point towards the end, too |
| 15:32 | < Reivles> | Mostly relating between elven archers and human ones, but |
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| 18:32 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Reivles: it says higher skill levels are better, and in fact says that peasants (SL 1) can't hurt dragons (SL 6) at all, but that's not enough to get it right. |
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| 18:33 | < Vornicus-Latens> | good gravy man fix your connection |
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| 18:50 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Essentially: I don't know how battle works. |
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| 19:26 | | * Vornicus-Latens finds the spell effects! |
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| 19:33 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Okay, that's one thing down. |
| 19:34 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Now I need to figure out: combat damage, ring of heroism, half chances, Druid/Archmage power |
| 19:34 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | Oh, and morale. |
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| 19:37 | | * Vornicus knows how the morale level is generated; the trick is how it affects combat. |
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| 19:42 | < Vornicus> | okay. Need to find an archmage home and a whole shitton of peasants, is what I need to do. |
| 19:47 | | * Vash finds a Vorn instead and steals him... |
| 19:48 | < Vornicus> | gah |
| 19:48 | < Vash> | What? |
| 19:48 | | * Vornicus was in the middle of a word! |
| 19:48 | < Vash> | ... |
| 19:49 | < Vornicus> | :P |
| 19:49 | < Vash> | -.- |
| 19:49 | | * Vash blarghs and puts Vron down |
| 19:49 | | * Vornicus gets stolen anyway |
| 19:49 | | * Vash walks somewhere |
| 19:49 | < Vash> | ... |
| 19:49 | < Vash> | Vorn* |
| 19:49 | < Vash> | Dammit. |
| 19:49 | < Vash> | With or without glasses I will make typos anyway. |
| 19:50 | < Vornicus> | Such is life. |
| 19:50 | | * Vash puts on her glasses |
| 19:50 | < Vash> | ;_; |
| 19:50 | | * Vash walks away |
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| 20:30 | < Vornicus> | waaaiiiit. |
| 20:30 | | * Vornicus figures out skill level. |
| 20:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh? |
| 20:31 | < Vornicus> | Yeah. |
| 20:31 | | * ToxicFrog cookies Vash |
| 20:31 | | * Vash is cookied |
| 20:31 | | * Vash muffins ToxicFrog |
| 20:31 | < Vash> | >> |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yay! |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: so, how does it work? |
| 20:32 | < Vornicus> | See, I know these things: a skill level 6 critter will /always/ damage a skill level 1 critter... and a skill level 1 critter will /never/ damage a skill level 6 critter. Easiest way to do this is armor class: roll d10, add attacker sl, subtract defender sl, hit threshold is 6 (50%) |
| 20:33 | < Vornicus> | Then I thought about Master of Orion, which has in many substantial ways a similar combat system: piles of dudes, with attack and defense, and that's exactly how it works. |
| 20:34 | < Vornicus> | So: for each attacker, he hits if d10 + attacker.sl - defender.sl > 5 |
| 20:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | How sure are you that this is how KB works, though? |
| 20:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Do observations of creatures at other SLs jive with that |
| 20:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 20:35 | < Vornicus> | Close enough to it, yes. |
| 20:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think for some things (although possibly not this) you may have to hit the code. |
| 20:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Like the ring of heroism @.@ |
| 20:37 | < Vornicus> | My current list of Things I Don't Know is: 1. Ring Of Heroism, 2. Morale, 3. Treasuregen, 4. Instant Army values. |
| 20:38 | < Vornicus> | oh, and Half and Druid/Archmage missile damage. |
| 20:39 | | * McMartin also links http://www.gamefaqs.com/images/cb7/cb7-2.jpg in here for the proverbial lulz. |
| 20:39 | < Vornicus> | What the crap is Sloth? |
| 20:39 | < Vash> | ... |
| 20:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | Lulz. |
| 20:39 | <@McMartin> | Vornicus: The immobile punchingbag from Brawl. |
| 20:39 | < Vornicus> | aha |
| 20:40 | | * AnnoDomini yays at having just finished the Age of Ice scenario for Civ4. |
| 20:40 | <@McMartin> | It sits there and you beat on them until candy comes out |
| 20:40 | < Vash> | ... |
| 20:40 | < Vash> | But candy never comes out! D= |
| 20:40 | <@McMartin> | Sure it does. It psecifically is rare |
| 20:40 | <@McMartin> | But food powerups are pretty easy |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which one is Wrath? |
| 20:40 | <@McMartin> | Also, CDs. |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | I recognize all the others. |
| 20:40 | < Vash> | ... |
| 20:40 | <@McMartin> | We think that's Kratos. |
| 20:40 | < Vash> | Wait, in Brawl? |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not pale enough. |
| 20:41 | <@McMartin> | Vash: Yeah. Custom levels with conveyorbelts and high-speed sandbag drops is the usual way to farm up soundtracks. |
| 20:41 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Kratos before his curse. |
| 20:41 | < Vash> | ... |
| 20:41 | | * Vash hasn't played brawl much... |
| 20:41 | < Vash> | Well.. |
| 20:41 | <@McMartin> | OK. One of the drops is CDs, which unlock extra soundtracks for the levels. |
| 20:41 | < Vash> | when I -do- play, I play with people online. (... Or used to play, rather..) |
| 20:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | AD: ok, could be. |
| 20:42 | < Vornicus> | I do now know how fireball and lightning work now, but i am not sure how druids and archmages use them. |
| 20:42 | < Vash> | Rarely play solo with anything. Except the main one player thing... (I keep forgetting the name, sue me.) |
| 20:42 | < Vornicus> | Subspace Emissary |
| 20:42 | | * Vash shiftyeyes |
| 20:43 | < Vash> | Thank you. |
| 20:43 | < Vash> | I don't play enough to remember. |
| 20:43 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Yeah. I think I see his armour, and he didn't wear that as the gods' wetwork man. |
| 20:43 | < Vash> | I kept saying the other way around usually. |
| 20:44 | < Vash> | ... Kirby could've been replaced by Yoshi too, I think... |
| 20:44 | | * Vash eyes the link |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | I disagree |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | Kirby is The Devourer |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | The All-Consuming Pink |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | I?! |
| 20:44 | < Vash> | Hm. |
| 20:45 | < Vornicus> | You will be eaten first when he awakens from his eldritch slumber! |
| 20:45 | <@McMartin> | Hm. In code news, for those who must contend with the CLR, F# is now officially supported. |
| 20:45 | < Vash> | ... |
| 20:45 | | * Vash gnaw Vorn |
| 20:45 | <@McMartin> | This may be the first time an ML dialect has shown up at a commerical compiler level. |
| 20:45 | <@jerith> | Nice. |
| 20:46 | | * jerith almost wins at Project Euler. |
| 20:46 | <@jerith> | Well, problem 33. |
| 20:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | F#? |
| 20:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | And that reminds me, I need to keep working my way through PEuler |
| 20:47 | | * Vornicus also needs to keep working his way through it. |
| 20:51 | < Vornicus> | Actually I'm willing to bet AMs and Druids just pretend to have spell power 1, and so their damage is 25 or 10 respectively with their missiles. |
| 20:55 | < Vornicus> | which brings me down to exactly one monster effect that I don't know how to deal with, and that's the Half power. |
| 20:57 | <@McMartin> | TF: F# is basically OCaml.NET |
| 20:57 | <@McMartin> | Or was when I last looked at it. |
| 20:57 | <@McMartin> | It is likely that it's mutated significantly so that it makes sense in the context of the rest of their core library. |
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| 21:01 | | * Vornicus examines the data file. Definitely a full record of continents in here, but I still haven't found the treasures. |
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| 21:16 | < ilf_uni> | Question on mask properties in visual basic: the mask property 0-00-000000-& works for an ISBN number, right? |
| 21:17 | <@jerith> | I've seen all kinds of ISBN formats. |
| 21:18 | <@McMartin> | Plotkin goes into great detail on the kinds of ISBNs |
| 21:18 | <@McMartin> | There's an unholy alliance between ISBN and UPC and Library of Congress |
| 21:18 | < ilf_uni> | Urf. |
| 21:18 | | * McMartin hunts |
| 21:19 | < ilf_uni> | The problem states 'the first nine characters are digits, adn the last is character is either a digit or the letter x'. I was using the provided example for other formatting. |
| 21:19 | <@McMartin> | http://eblong.com/zarf/bookscan/index.html |
| 21:19 | <@McMartin> | Aha, OK, that's ISBN proper, then, not the UPC horrors. |
| 21:19 | | * Vornicus finds all four continents in the mapfile; there's nothing between them, which is good. |
| 21:20 | <@jerith> | http://isbntools.com/details.html |
| 21:21 | <@McMartin> | (Zarf's is funnier though) |
| 21:25 | | * ilf_uni hrms at the next homework problem, which involves tables and imputting from a .txt file... this would be easy, if the professor had actually taught us how to do this instead of relying on us using voodoo code. |
| 21:28 | | * Vornicus eyes. okay, /both/ of those change at once. what? |
| 21:30 | | * Vornicus finds his map mask |
| 21:31 | < Vornicus> | okay, 00c1. |
| 21:32 | < Vornicus> | er, 00c9. Get the offset right, dammit |
| 21:33 | < Vornicus> | this then goes up to 08c9 with a bunch of 00s, mostly, except for the thing I can see. It's an uncompressed one-bit-per-cell bitmap, organized the same way as the actual map data. |
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| 21:37 | < Vornicus> | 0000-000a(b?): name, padded with spaces. |
| 21:38 | < Vornicus> | (that one was obvious, but) |
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| 21:46 | < Vornicus> | gner. Okay, no /obvious/ data on treasure locations. |
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| 21:58 | < Vornicus> | Hrm. The only reason you'd actually /need/ the treasure locations is if they weren't in the map - could it be it's unpacking that data from the maps and then storing the rest in a linked list that it pickles to an arrayoid? |
| 22:03 | | * Vornicus finds what appears to be monster counts for castles: 260 shorts with numbers in the right range, including one that's 5000, that must be Magus Deathspell's peasants. |
| 22:03 | < Vornicus> | er, 130 shorts, rather |
| 22:03 | < Vornicus> | 260 bytes of them. |
| 22:11 | < Vornicus> | And right after my /own/ army counts, so I'm doing good. |
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| 23:26 | | * ToxicFrog ponders that book scanning project |
| 23:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | It occurs to me it would be more useful if it were "scan book, get results" |
| 23:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Rather than "scan lots of books, get lots of results, try to figure out which ones it couldn't look up" |
| 23:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Perhaps I should modify it. |
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| 23:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:36 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:37 | <@McMartin> | See note about why "get results" doesn't cut it for pre-2005 books |
| 23:37 | <@McMartin> | Only half a results is actually present in any given book. |
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| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I must be missing something here, because I still don't see how that means you can't have it go through the whole process as books are scanned in one by one |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | Because your version scans, says "NOES", and then later says "OK, now I know because you later on scanned this other book that had two codes in it, one of which matches the old book" |
| 23:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 23:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think |
| 23:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would still prefer that behaviour. |
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| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | Well, you still have to sort through |
| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | It's just that you scan through them all, get two piles, and then need to take out the books from the "NOES" pile that were actually OK. |
| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Actually what I think I'd rather do is scan them all, then re-scan the NOES pile |
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| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | As based on experience I suspect that would be faster than sorting through a heap of books looking for specific ones by ISBN |
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| 23:57 | | * Vornicus finishes putting together his chicken pot pie, gets back to reverse engineering the save file format. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Oct 22 00:00:52 2008 |