| --- Log opened Thu Feb 22 00:00:27 2007 |
| 00:09 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 00:09 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 00:10 | | ChalcyOut [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 00:11 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 00:19 | | * Chalcedon vaguely and gently enpokenate a Vorn |
| 00:28 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: run away! run away!] |
| 00:43 | | ReivZzz is now known as ReivOut |
| 00:55 | | Takyoji [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25280.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:08 | | Mischief [~Mischief@Nightstar-2942.ashbva.adelphia.net] has joined #code |
| 01:12 | < Mischief> | Ello all. |
| 01:23 | | gnolam [Lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 01:27 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 01:27 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 01:28 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 01:30 | | ChalcyGone [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 01:31 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 01:31 | | MyCatVerbs is now known as MyCatSleeps |
| 01:57 | | Mischief [~Mischief@Nightstar-2942.ashbva.adelphia.net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 01:58 | | BlueTiger [~BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 02:26 | | BlueTiger [~BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 03:27 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:27 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 03:28 | | ChalcyGone [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 03:36 | | ReivOut is now known as Reiver |
| 04:45 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 04:58 | <@Chalcy> | oh ye coding gurus |
| 04:58 | <@Chalcy> | could someone remind me what needs to be in my README? |
| 04:59 | | MahalWork is now known as Mahal |
| 04:59 | | Mahal is now known as MahalOut |
| 05:00 | <@Chalcy> | What the program is/does |
| 05:00 | <@Chalcy> | how to install it |
| 05:00 | <@Chalcy> | Input format |
| 05:00 | <@Chalcy> | Output format |
| 05:00 | <@Chalcy> | Instructions to run the program |
| 05:00 | <@Chalcy> | Troubleshooting |
| 05:01 | <@Chalcy> | Authors/credits |
| 05:01 | <@Chalcy> | Licence |
| 05:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Typically - overview of what the program is/does; installation (if not in INSTALL); summary of usage; credits; license (if not in COPYING). |
| 05:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also detailed usage manual if you aren't providing a seperate man page. |
| 05:02 | <@Chalcy> | what's a summary of usage? |
| 05:02 | | * Chalcy hug TF |
| 05:03 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29027.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 05:03 | <@Chalcy> | also, how should I format the credits section? |
| 05:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Summary of usage is typically just a quick overview of how to invoke the program and what options it takes. |
| 05:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | The man page will go into detail on what the program does, what each option does and how to use them, and possibly how the program does it. |
| 05:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | And typically end with examples of how to use it and a list of known bugs. |
| 05:06 | <@Chalcy> | (I wasn't intending to do a proper manual document, so I should put that in the readme? |
| 05:06 | <@Chalcy> | *) |
| 05:08 | | * Chalcy hmmm |
| 05:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, then. |
| 05:08 | <@Chalcy> | TF, would you like me to send you a copy of my thesis? (electronic copy) You've helped me an awful lot in this last year or so. |
| 05:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sure! I'm not sure when I'll have time to read it, though. |
| 05:10 | <@Chalcy> | I'm offering, I won't be offended if you don't actually want one. either way, I wouldn't expect you to sit down and read the whole thing. |
| 05:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would be glad to have a copy :) |
| 05:11 | <@Chalcy> | :) |
| 05:11 | <@Chalcy> | I need to tie Vorn down and get him to give me an email, so I'll send them both together in the next couple of days. |
| 05:11 | <@Chalcy> | (I'll warn you though, its about 6MB) |
| 05:12 | | * Chalcy idly wonders if it will zip up. |
| 05:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | What format is it in? |
| 05:12 | <@Chalcy> | pdf |
| 05:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Might be worth a try, then. |
| 05:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Toss it through rar and see what falls out. |
| 05:28 | <@Chalcy> | well... that squished it down to 4.4 |
| 05:29 | | * Chalcy idly wonders if she should throw in the thesis version of the program as well. |
| 05:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sure, source code compresses well. |
| 05:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I have...78GB free for incoming mail~ |
| 05:31 | | * Chalcy will finish the readme first then |
| 05:31 | <@Chalcy> | :) |
| 05:44 | < Vornicus> | uh, hm |
| 05:44 | < Vornicus> | I don't know if my email can handle it. |
| 05:45 | <@Chalcy> | :s |
| 05:45 | < Vornicus> | ...I do wonder if my resmark address still works. |
| 05:45 | < Vornicus> | Though really I shouldn't use that |
| 05:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: there's always DCC. |
| 05:46 | <@Chalcy> | ? |
| 05:47 | <@Chalcy> | last time I tried DCC it borked because I haven't set port fowarding up properly (and can't figure out how to do that) |
| 05:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chalcy: Direct Client to Client. IRC extension for transferring files, mostly. |
| 05:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 05:47 | <@Chalcy> | the ? was aimed at Vorn's last statement |
| 05:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can help with that, or I can DCC it to Vorn after it's mailed to me. |
| 05:47 | < Vornicus> | Seeing as how I don't work there any more. |
| 05:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since I have DCC working on this end. |
| 05:47 | < jerith> | Vorn: You're not at resmark anymore? |
| 05:47 | < Vornicus> | No. |
| 05:48 | < jerith> | Ah. |
| 05:48 | < jerith> | Where are you working, then? |
| 05:48 | < jerith> | Or aren't you? |
| 05:48 | < Vornicus> | I'm not right now, I'm in the hunt. |
| 05:48 | < jerith> | (Amazon's still hiring if you want to come to Cape Town.) |
| 05:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Come to Bluecoat~ |
| 05:48 | < Vornicus> | ...pfff |
| 05:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (we have a Wii) |
| 05:49 | < Vornicus> | hee |
| 05:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or will, at least, as soon as Mike can find a place with any in stock) |
| 05:49 | < Vornicus> | If you have a location in Utah Valley or Salt Lake, gladly. |
| 05:49 | < jerith> | Otherwise, Amazon's always hiring if you want to go to Seattle. Or Bangalore. Or somewhere. |
| 05:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (The Powers That Be have decided that, with the upgrade of the teleconferencing system to large LCD flatpanels, we also need to upgrade the consoles attached to them from the v1001 PSXs we used previously~) |
| 05:49 | | * Chalcy hug the Vornicus |
| 05:50 | | * Vornicus hugs |
| 05:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | I...actually don't think we do. Sorry. |
| 05:50 | <@Chalcy> | I did not realise you were out of a job again :S |
| 05:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sunnyvale, Waterloo, and a few overseas locations, IIRC. |
| 05:52 | < jerith> | I wouldn't really consider Utah to be a hotbed of technology companies... |
| 05:52 | < Vornicus> | Novell |
| 05:52 | < jerith> | Then again, I wouldn't really consider Cape Town to be a hotbed of technology companies. |
| 05:53 | < Vornicus> | There's lots of them in Utah Valley and Salt Lake. |
| 05:53 | | * Chalcy pokes her readme |
| 05:55 | < jerith> | There have also been some job offers on the EC2 forums. Two for contract positions and one for the dev lead of a team you get to put together. |
| 05:56 | < Vornicus> | Dev lead of a team you get to put together. |
| 05:56 | < Vornicus> | In my /dreams' dreams/ I am qualified for such a position. |
| 05:58 | | * jerith grins. |
| 05:58 | < jerith> | Was all for stuff built on AWS, of course. |
| 05:59 | < jerith> | And having built a nontrivial chunk of EC2, I'm nowhere near qualified for that position. |
| 06:00 | | * Vornicus blings |
| 06:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | EC2? |
| 06:01 | < jerith> | We were joking around the office that we'd pick up the entire EC2 team and apply for that. "Here you go, a very qualified tech lead and the n most experienced EC2 devs on the planet. |
| 06:02 | < jerith> | " |
| 06:02 | < jerith> | http://ec2.amazonaws.com/ |
| 06:02 | < Vornicus> | Scalable clustered computing. |
| 06:03 | < jerith> | "Umm, who's going to implement the service-side features we want if you guys are here?" "You'll have to give us a day a week each to work for Amazon." |
| 06:04 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 06:04 | < jerith> | TF: *Very* cool stuff, even if I wasn't being paid to build it. |
| 06:05 | < jerith> | Also, one of the very best technical forums I've ever been involved in. (Content and userbase-wise, the forum software is awful.) |
| 06:06 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #Code |
| 06:06 | < jerith> | Anyways, I'd best go and hack on EC2 some more instead of just talking about it. |
| 06:06 | < jerith> | Cheers all. |
| 06:07 | < jerith> | (Vorn: we apparently have a pretty good relocation package and Cape Town is a lovely part of the world. :-P) |
| 06:07 | < Vornicus> | (:-P |
| 06:07 | < Vornicus> | ) |
| 06:08 | < Vornicus> | (as much as I like seeing hte world, I don't think I'd want to move literally halfway around the world from my family) |
| 06:09 | | * Chalcy argh at the GPL |
| 06:09 | < Vornicus> | what's wrong with it? Other than being long and overcomplicated for what it really is trying to say? |
| 06:10 | <@Chalcy> | yeah. |
| 06:10 | <@Chalcy> | um the bit at the end 'how to apply this to your program' |
| 06:11 | <@Chalcy> | is that /part/ of the licence or does one cut it off and replace it with what its instructing you to do? |
| 06:12 | < Vornicus> | That is not part of the actual license. |
| 06:12 | | * Chalcy cuts it off |
| 06:12 | < Vornicus> | The last part of the actual license is "EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES." |
| 06:17 | <@Chalcy> | ok, sorted I think |
| 06:20 | <@Chalcy> | I would /greatly/ appreciate any and all comments on the readme, I have /no idea/ if I've set it out correctly or anything |
| 06:20 | <@Chalcy> | you still about Vorn? |
| 06:21 | < Vornicus> | Nevah |
| 06:23 | <@Chalcy> | ready for a DCC'd thesis |
| 06:23 | <@Chalcy> | *? |
| 06:23 | <@Chalcy> | (it may not work, but I thought I'd try) |
| 06:23 | < Vornicus> | yes. |
| 06:24 | | * Chalcy sends |
| 06:24 | < Vornicus> | Doesn't look like it's working. |
| 06:25 | <@Chalcy> | :S |
| 06:25 | < Vornicus> | ah well |
| 06:25 | <@Chalcy> | I hope it isn't too big |
| 06:25 | | * Chalcy waits for it to upload to gmail so that she can send to TF. |
| 06:26 | < Vornicus> | That wouldn't do it, in this case; DCC needs port forwarding set up. |
| 06:26 | <@Chalcy> | waiiiit.... |
| 06:26 | < Vornicus> | ??? |
| 06:26 | <@Chalcy> | that's weird, because I DCC'd you before and it worked still without portfowarding set up |
| 06:26 | <@Chalcy> | I think gmail has an attachment size limit |
| 06:26 | | * Chalcy investigate.... |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | It does, or at least it did. |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | It may have changed since. |
| 06:26 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 06:27 | < Vornicus> | It's a big attachment size limit though |
| 06:27 | < Vornicus> | 4MB won't set it off. |
| 06:27 | <@Chalcy> | well, it accepted it. |
| 06:28 | <@Chalcy> | it should be winging its ponderous way to your inbox now TF |
| 06:28 | <@Chalcy> | limit is 10MB |
| 06:28 | | * Chalcy notes that she sent it to TF's nightstar address because that's the one she has |
| 06:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I need to install a text-mode mailreader, then |
| 06:29 | <@Chalcy> | ? |
| 06:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Suggestions? |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chalcy: I'm not at home. |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I have to SSH in, save the attached file, and then DCC it to Vorn. |
| 06:30 | <@Chalcy> | ah... that could be a problem then |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which means having a mail client I can use over ssh. |
| 06:30 | <@Chalcy> | o.O |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. Pine, perhaps? |
| 06:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | ?? |
| 06:31 | < Reiver> | Why didn't you just email it to Vorn? |
| 06:31 | < Reiver> | And failing that, a 4mb attachment isn't that onerous, is it? |
| 06:31 | | * Vornicus can't get them that size. |
| 06:31 | < Reiver> | Oh right. |
| 06:31 | < Reiver> | Was just going to say: |
| 06:32 | <@Chalcy> | sorry TF, I have no idea |
| 06:32 | < Reiver> | ...Also if you used Gmail or similar to send it, it often still keeps the attachment in your 'sent' box. |
| 06:32 | | * Chalcy hugs |
| 06:32 | < Reiver> | Saving new upload. |
| 06:32 | < Reiver> | Or! |
| 06:32 | <@Chalcy> | email it to you and you can DCC it? |
| 06:32 | < Reiver> | Upload to the Vornwiki! And get Vorn to delete it after so it doesn't stay publically avalable. |
| 06:32 | <@Chalcy> | or that |
| 06:32 | < Reiver> | Then Vorn has it automagically, and TF can download. |
| 06:33 | <@Chalcy> | votes? |
| 06:33 | | * Reiver ponders. |
| 06:33 | < Reiver> | #Thesis |
| 06:33 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 07:21 | | Forjeh [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:23 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 07:28 | | MahalOut is now known as Mahal |
| 08:09 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #Code |
| 08:14 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:20 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #Code |
| 08:37 | | noop [~uzuzuz@Nightstar-2562.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #Code |
| 08:37 | < noop> | na ihr coder alles klar |
| 08:38 | < noop> | hello |
| 08:38 | < noop> | im the noop |
| 08:38 | < noop> | i need help |
| 08:38 | < noop> | my page www.meatspin.com |
| 08:40 | | * EvilDarkLord pokes an op to apply banjolnir. |
| 08:40 | < Vornicus> | already done, sorta |
| 08:41 | <@Chalcedon> | oh? |
| 08:41 | < Vornicus> | *** Global -- from Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net: Vornicus added FREEZE on noop (~uzuzuz@etc) |
| 08:41 | <@Chalcedon> | hehehe |
| 08:41 | < EvilDarkLord> | Heh. |
| 08:41 | < Vornicus> | Mine's Bigger. |
| 08:41 | | noop [~uzuzuz@Nightstar-2562.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is, in fact, This Big. |
| 08:49 | | * Reiver puts TF in 6 point font. |
| 08:52 | <@Chalcedon> | ok.... |
| 08:52 | | * Chalcedon is now officially WTF at Forj's program |
| 08:52 | <@Chalcedon> | it's printing something that is /commented out/ |
| 08:52 | < Vornicus> | Showus! |
| 08:53 | < Vornicus> | Also, has he, uh, saved? |
| 08:53 | <@Chalcedon> | yes |
| 08:54 | | * Chalcedon poke Forjeh |
| 08:54 | < Forjeh> | erm, how do you want it shown? |
| 08:54 | < Vornicus> | pastie! |
| 08:54 | < Mahal> | pastebin.ca ? |
| 08:54 | < Forjeh> | k |
| 08:56 | < Forjeh> | how many lines can I usefully paste into that? |
| 08:56 | < Vornicus> | As much as you want. |
| 08:57 | < Vornicus> | (I have pasted 300-line snippets) |
| 08:57 | < Forjeh> | ok, here is the main code. Vorn may recognise some of it, and will probably want to kill me/correct my horrible code |
| 08:57 | < Vornicus> | (though at that size they're hardly 'snippets' anymore) |
| 08:58 | < Forjeh> | http://pastie.caboo.se/42152 |
| 08:58 | < Forjeh> | it generates what I want |
| 08:58 | < Forjeh> | this code: http://pastie.caboo.se/42153 |
| 08:58 | < Forjeh> | however, runs some of the commented lines in the first set |
| 08:59 | < Forjeh> | namely, #if trap_count==1: |
| 08:59 | < Forjeh> | # print "There is "+str(trap_count)+" trap in this event" |
| 08:59 | < Forjeh> | #else: |
| 08:59 | < Forjeh> | # print "There are "+str(trap_count)+" traps in this event" |
| 08:59 | < Vornicus> | Make sure the first set is saved |
| 08:59 | < Vornicus> | Then delete the .pyc file associated with it. |
| 08:59 | < Forjeh> | it's not actually a problem, was just a wee bit baffling |
| 09:00 | < Forjeh> | ok, done |
| 09:01 | < Vornicus> | Then just try again. |
| 09:01 | < Forjeh> | ran the short code, and it still gives me "There is x trap(s) in this event" at the start |
| 09:02 | < Vornicus> | v. strange. |
| 09:02 | < Forjeh> | that was our thoughts... |
| 09:03 | < Vornicus> | I'm not sure. Are you certain it's running the right file? Try adding a random diagnostic message and seeing what comes out. |
| 09:05 | | * Forjeh dohs |
| 09:05 | < Forjeh> | I know what it is |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | ? |
| 09:05 | < Forjeh> | "save as" to version my programs |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | Oh |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | ...yes, uh |
| 09:05 | | * Chalcedon eyes Forjeh |
| 09:05 | < Mahal> | and you're running another |
| 09:05 | | * Mahal has done this before. |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | I suggest you use /real/ version control. |
| 09:06 | <@Chalcedon> | how does that work? it's been driving me batty for months |
| 09:06 | < Forjeh> | software I'm most accustomed to keeps what you were saving as |
| 09:06 | <@Chalcedon> | really? Word doesn't |
| 09:06 | < Forjeh> | rather than replacing what you're working on |
| 09:06 | < Forjeh> | forgot that it's the only one that does so :D |
| 09:07 | < Vornicus> | How does what work? |
| 09:07 | < Forjeh> | "save as copy" |
| 09:07 | | * Chalcedon pokes Solidworks |
| 09:07 | < Forjeh> | which is almost always what I'm doing |
| 09:07 | < Forjeh> | cos if you save as, it re-references *all* documents referencing that file |
| 09:07 | < Vornicus> | oh, yeah. Save Copy As is different from Save As |
| 09:08 | < Vornicus> | ...bitey. |
| 09:08 | < Forjeh> | I'd just gotten into the habit of save as == save as copy |
| 09:08 | < Vornicus> | Proper version control is better. See about setting yourself up an SVN repository. |
| 09:08 | <@Chalcedon> | SVN? |
| 09:08 | < Mahal> | Subversion. |
| 09:08 | <@Chalcedon> | ? |
| 09:09 | < Forjeh> | yeah, this was more a case of save as, so I have it preserved at one point, for when I screw it up |
| 09:09 | < Vornicus> | http://subversion.tigris.org/ <--- a proper version control system. |
| 09:09 | < Vornicus> | Will keep all revisions of documents, so that you never have to worry about screwing up, because you can /always/ go back |
| 09:09 | | * Chalcedon bookmarks for later perusal |
| 09:10 | < Forjeh> | I'm familiar with proper versioning, we use a vault system at work that means only I can change the things I'm working, it bumps the revision every time you check it it, and once I change the lifecycle to production, no one can change anything :) |
| 09:10 | | * Chalcedon hug Vornicus |
| 09:10 | | * Vornicus hugs Chalcy. |
| 09:10 | < Forjeh> | I can open from the vault the entire 4000 part assembly as I built it 2 years ago, 2 major revisions of the entire machine |
| 09:11 | | * Forjeh hugs feels electronically left out, hugs all round |
| 09:12 | < timelady> | Forjeh: HUGS |
| 09:19 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 09:27 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-14612.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: run away! run away!] |
| 09:41 | | Forjeh [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 09:41 | | Mahal is now known as MahalBEDD |
| 09:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[wr0k] |
| 09:45 | | MahalBEDD is now known as Mahal |
| 09:47 | | Mahal is now known as MahaLBEDD |
| 09:47 | | MahaLBEDD is now known as MahalBEDD |
| 11:35 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-26359.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 12:21 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 12:22 | | gnolam [Lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 14:58 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 15:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 16:13 | <@TheWatcher> | ... Lua doesn't have pre or post increment/decrement? |
| 16:27 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-18568.cs.bris.ac.uk] has joined #code |
| 17:16 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh yay, another half-working program. Kinda. ^^ |
| 17:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | TW: no. |
| 17:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Honestly I've never really noticed the lack, but it would be nice to have, along with the += operators. |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus-Latens: on the topic of Subversion: can you, offhand, recommend another version control system that does some form of locking? |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm used to check out, edit, check in, but SVN is just edit, check in, which means I keep forgetting the check in stage. |
| 17:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | For that matter, can people other than vorn suggest version control systems? |
| 17:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: subversion does have file locking, since it needs occasionally ot be used with binary files. |
| 17:29 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 17:29 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 17:29 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 17:36 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 17:36 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 17:36 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Chalcy))] |
| 17:36 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 17:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: sorry, not exactly the right term. |
| 17:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm thinking here of what Perforce does - files are, by default, read-only on the client. |
| 17:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | When you want to make a change, you check them out, which makes them writable and groups them into a changelist. |
| 17:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | When you're done, you submit the changelist, which makes them read-only again and merges the changes into the repo. |
| 17:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | SVN, AFAICT, doesn't have any such concept; the "changelist" is just "whichever files you passed to svn commit" |
| 17:39 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ah. Sounds like a PITA. >> |
| 17:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | See, I like it, because it lets me easily divide what I'm working on into different subprojects, and keeps me from accidentally toasting things I didn't want to change. |
| 17:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Whereas with SVN, there's never that mental click that says "I'm working on something under version control, I should check this in when I'm finished" |
| 17:42 | < MyCatVerbs> | Jah, makes sense. |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also means that I can easily ask the client for a list of open changelists and see what I'm working on at the moment. |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Whereas SVN is just "hey, you have changed files!" |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And only groups them into changelists *after* you've finished and are checking them in. |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unfortunately, this also seems to be how Mercurial, Monotone, Git, and Darcs handle things, as far as I can tell. |
| 17:54 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 17:55 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: buy Perforce, then, if it's the only behavoir you can stand. |
| 17:56 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 17:56 | < MyCatVerbs> | Either that or you could modify svn to chmod files to 0550 by default. |
| 17:57 | | MahalBEDD is now known as Mahal |
| 17:59 | < Mahal> | I am half asleep this morning, so if this doesn't make sense, forgve. |
| 17:59 | < Mahal> | but I think my friend (Colitis) who uses svn a /lot/ uses it in cnojunction with trac. |
| 17:59 | < Mahal> | Or something which enables the sort of tracking you're after |
| 17:59 | < Mahal> | I am just not sure on the name. |
| 17:59 | | * MyCatVerbs hugs Mahal. |
| 18:00 | < MyCatVerbs> | 'lo Mahal, how've you been? |
| 18:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: yeah, but that still won't give me pre-checkin changelists. |
| 18:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | And P4 *cannot* be the only VCS that does this! |
| 18:01 | < MyCatVerbs> | I think the Perforce coders might take that as a slur. ;) |
| 18:02 | < Mahal> | http://trac.edgewall.org/ |
| 18:02 | < Mahal> | (I was right on the name, amazing) |
| 18:03 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-18568.cs.bris.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Swim, swim, hungry!] |
| 18:54 | | Mahal is now known as MahalWORK |
| 19:03 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:38 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29027.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 19:44 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 20:12 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-26359.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 20:25 | | MyCatSleeps [~mycatownz@Nightstar-379.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 20:27 | | MyCatSleeps [~mycatownz@Nightstar-379.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 20:31 | < Vornicus-Latens> | TF: The way to handle that sort of thing in SVN seems to be to have your main project stuff checked out anonymously. |
| 20:38 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 20:59 | < AnnoDomini> | I've got a problem. Due to a failed IE5 installation in the past, I cannot attempt it anew - it just says the bloody thing will complete the installation when I reboot. |
| 20:59 | < AnnoDomini> | But it won't. |
| 20:59 | < AnnoDomini> | How do I delete any mention that there ever was a previous attempt, so I can try again? |
| 21:00 | < AnnoDomini> | No, I don't want to wipe+ghost the drive. |
| 21:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Run an IE removal tool? |
| 21:07 | < AnnoDomini> | There is such a thing? Hm. |
| 21:12 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 21:14 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Some people find sanity a little confining.] |
| 21:17 | < Janus> | Hee-hee~ I've a silly idea, but I need to know something really mathimatical first. |
| 21:17 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 21:18 | < AnnoDomini> | Thank you for your help, TheWatcher. |
| 21:18 | | * Janus thinks "mathimatical" fits too well into iambic pentameter. |
| 21:19 | | GeekSoldier [Rob@Nightstar-2868.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 21:20 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Some people find sanity a little confining.] |
| 21:20 | < Janus> | Anyway, does anyone know the offical term that describes what happens when a hard-round thing hits a soft-round thing, and the soft thing jiggles? |
| 21:21 | < GeekSoldier> | transfer of kinetic energy? |
| 21:21 | < Janus> | Yeah. But isn't there a specific word for the actual 'jiggle' action? |
| 21:22 | < GeekSoldier> | it's been YEARS since I've taken statics and dynamics... |
| 21:23 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 21:23 | < Janus> | I just wanted to know so I could use a different term besides 'jiggle action', but it would work for now. |
| 21:23 | < Vornicus> | God, ask Jerith. |
| 21:23 | < Vornicus> | not jerith. |
| 21:23 | < Vornicus> | Raif. |
| 21:26 | < AnnoDomini> | Jiggle action...? Gainaxing? |
| 21:28 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Reboot.] |
| 21:29 | < Janus> | That fit the definition too well. |
| 21:30 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29639.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 21:32 | | * Janus looks around for pre-enstablished methods for Gainaxing. |
| 21:56 | | MyCatSleeps is now known as MyCatVerbs |
| 22:08 | | BlueTiger [BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 22:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Janus: oscillation? |
| 22:16 | < Vornicus> | Jiggle is a hard thing to do. Ask Raif, he's done it before. |
| 22:17 | < Janus> | Actually, I kind of have an idea for doing it. Oscillation is actually an important part of which. |
| 22:17 | | * Janus draw-draws it. |
| 22:21 | < Janus> | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/tai_ragnarok/gainaxtion.jpg |
| 22:22 | < Janus> | If one point is disturbed, it would eventually even out and become somewhat round again. |
| 22:22 | < Janus> | Jiggling the way. |
| 22:22 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 22:22 | < Vornicus> | Now, you need calculus for it. |
| 22:23 | < Vornicus> | Also you will need a lot more detail if you're going to do a vaguely realistic thing. |
| 22:23 | < Janus> | I know... I didn't want to draw too much though. |
| 22:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:27 | < Vornicus> | Not only on the surface, but in sub-surface areas. |
| 22:28 | | GeekSoldier [Rob@Nightstar-2868.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector] |
| 22:28 | | * AnnoDomini notes the filename on that picture. "I was joking!" o_O |
| 22:28 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatownz@Nightstar-379.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 22:29 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatownz@Nightstar-379.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 22:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:30 | < Janus> | Gainaxing is serious business. |
| 22:30 | < Janus> | I'm fine with points, but lines and planes not so much. |
| 22:31 | < Janus> | Just can't figure out a way to determine collisions with those two things. |
| 22:31 | < AnnoDomini> | I stand by my statement. My understanding is that you don't know what gainaxing means. <_< |
| 22:33 | | * Janus knows all about gainaxtion. This is one of the first things taught in School nowadays. |
| 22:33 | | BlueTiger [BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 22:37 | < AnnoDomini> | ...They teach little kids that? |
| 22:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 22:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, I don't think you do know. |
| 22:39 | < Janus> | Little kids usually teach themselves. You know how intense grade school is becoming, especially math. |
| 22:40 | | * Janus askes wikipedia for a refresher. |
| 22:41 | < AnnoDomini> | http://tvtropes.org/ <- Ask this wiki. |
| 22:44 | < Janus> | ... |
| 22:45 | < AnnoDomini> | From the look on your face, I gather that enlightenment has struck. |
| 22:45 | < Janus> | Indeed. |
| 22:47 | < Janus> | ... wouldn't that hurt? |
| 22:47 | < AnnoDomini> | Nah. I'd probably laugh. |
| 22:52 | | * Janus makes a to-do note. class Misty_May{ // will fill later |
| 22:55 | | * ToxicFrog idly pokes |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I now have an extra partition on Leela for testing of other linux distros. |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which should I start with, Gentoo or Ubuntu? |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I was thinking Gentoo, but I'm looking at the install process now and it's aughwtf. |
| 22:57 | < Vornicus> | I like Ubuntu. |
| 22:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | (which is a pity, because I really like the idea of gentoo, but...come on, people! "infinite choice" does not mean "make the user do everything by hand") |
| 22:59 | < Vornicus> | The worst bit, really, is that if you take the "recommended" course, you have to know your hardware completely. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...really? |
| 23:02 | < Vornicus> | Gentoo "recommends" that you choose hardware drivers yourself. |
| 23:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...oh. So it does. |
| 23:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Providing "genkernel" as an alternative, it looks like. |
| 23:03 | < Vornicus> | I tried that, and since I didn't know my ethernet card, I could no longer connect to the machine (which I had been installing by ssh) once I rebooted. |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | ;.; |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's such a nice concept, but the implementation is looking more and more to be severely lacking. |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | OTOH, Ubuntu is based on Debian ;.; |
| 23:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | Arch! |
| 23:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | Packages the kernel almost entirely stripped, but with *everything* compiled as modules. |
| 23:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | Then sets up an initial ramdisk by default. ^^ |
| 23:06 | < Vornicus> | Personally if it just said "okay, choose your ethernet drivers. These are the ones that are known to work with your card, along with approximate performance characteristics found by our hardware team. Choose the one that suits you best." |
| 23:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...also, Ubuntu appears to offer installation *only* as full, 700MB install discs. |
| 23:06 | | * ToxicFrog applies beatings |
| 23:08 | < Vornicus> | that would be best. |
| 23:08 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 23:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | The options appear to be "configure by hand" or "autodetect everything" |
| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, going with gentoo first because I can't be arsed to wait for all 700MB of ubuntu to download. |
| 23:09 | < Vornicus> | whereas the right way is autodetect and then let the user configure beyond that. |
| 23:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: personally, I'm rather fond of OpenBSD's model. |
| 23:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | "Stripping kernel sizes down is for losers and Gentoo-fappers. You use GENERIC or you can piss off and take your silly little problem down the hall if you run into problems." |
| 23:12 | < MyCatVerbs> | Coupled with: "There's a tight, well-tested base system. There's a large set of prebuilt binary add-on packages. If you need anything else, we install gcc by default. Go knock yourself out. Please, really, do so. I look forward to your death by head trauma." |
| 23:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...in other words, the OpenBSD model is "assholes from wall to wall"? |
| 23:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | No thanks |
| 23:12 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: more like, "The user uses the user's brain. The machine does *exactly* what it's told." |
| 23:16 | < MyCatVerbs> | I mean, the add-on system's basically identical to Slackware's but rather better at dependancy handling. The genkernel policy is just to point out that the devs simply don't have the resources to debug every arcane and freakish combination of kernel options and gcc overoptimization flags, and that trying to do silly things to speed up the kernel doesn't actually have any appreciable effect in practice. |
| 23:31 | | * Serah explodes. |
| 23:36 | < MyCatVerbs> | Serah: y'okay? |
| 23:36 | < Serah> | More or less. |
| --- Log closed Fri Feb 23 00:00:27 2007 |