| --- Log opened Sat Sep 26 00:00:43 2020 |
| 00:59 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 01:04 | | * McMartin scps a few files across his LAN, finds that the receiving machine ends up consuming 97% CPU in the sftp process |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | Am I doing something obviously dumb here? |
| 01:05 | <~Vornicus> | wow, cpu pegging a stereotypically i/o operation? that's wild |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | I mean, it's gotta be the decryptor, or that I'm sending already compressed data that's making sftp do a bunch of useless work |
| 01:30 | < SmithKurosaki> | Sounds like fun. I was super irritated at my one prof for using a shitty rar compression that would not work with unrar |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: scp doesn't compress by default, so unless you're using `scp -C` I wouldn't expect "a bunch of useless work" from already-compressed data. |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | That said, if I scp between thoth and ancilla it hits about 9% CPU on thoth and 11% on ancilla at 12MB/s transfer rate |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | They are both relatively recent and beefy machines |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | I would expect CPU load to scale linearly with transfer rate, so if you're on gigE nearly pegging a core sounds pretty plausible even on recent hardware. |
| 01:43 | <&McMartin> | This is a 2015-era Celeron |
| 01:43 | <&McMartin> | The transfer rate regularly drops to near zero for extended periods as it thrashes, and then stops when it decides to stop. |
| 01:44 | <&McMartin> | What I am seeing though suggests that pscp is in fact running sftp under the hood |
| 01:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | "thrashing" here as in "pegging the CPU" or in the more common sense of "swapping heavily"? |
| 01:44 | <&McMartin> | sftp uses both zlib and googling around suggests that it is regularly requiring the connection to be renegoitated in ways that SCP does not. |
| 01:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 01:45 | <&McMartin> | "Making no progress according to the client" |
| 01:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | I assumed you meant literally `scp` |
| 01:45 | <&McMartin> | Well, I kind of assumed that pscp was literally scp |
| 01:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've never even heard of pscp |
| 01:45 | <&McMartin> | But top was showing "sftpd-[cut off]" |
| 01:45 | <&McMartin> | pscp is PuTTY's implementation of scp. |
| 01:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | I tried it with plain scp and htop (which I highly recommend as a top replacement if you can get it) showed elevated cpu usage from sshd, with sftpd idle. |
| 01:48 | <&McMartin> | "Normally PSCP will attempt to use the SFTP protocol, and only fall back to the SCP protocol if SFTP is not available on the server." |
| 01:48 | <&McMartin> | So the next time I need to do this, I guess I'll see if pscp -scp actually helps. |
| 01:51 | < SmithKurosaki> | neat |
| 01:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | I don't think I've actually used PuTTY in over a decade, on windows if I want a shell I use cygwin ssh and if I want file transfers I use smb while swearing continuously |
| 01:52 | <&McMartin> | Turns out that Pageant (PuTTY's equivalent of ssh-agent) remains the gold standard for SSH integration on Windows |
| 01:55 | < SmithKurosaki> | TF, does swearing make it more efficient, or just functional? |
| 01:55 | <&McMartin> | I consider Windows my primary platform these days and I won't touch SMB with a ten-foot pole >_> |
| 01:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | SmithKurosaki: neither, but it makes me feel better about it |
| 01:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: well, windows doesn't have an sshfs driver, so it's either smb or nfs and the windows nfs is, charitably, severely half-assed and incomplete |
| 01:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | s/windows nfs/windows nfs driver/ |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I suppose it's true that I generally don't do windows-to-windows copies. |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | I have one Important Linux Machine running on severely underpowered hardware, and the Windows machines point their gits or w/e at that. |
| 01:59 | < SmithKurosaki> | Yea. I'm rather glad I have a linux terminal on my chromebook now. Not comfy enough to do a proper crouton install again, and my windows laptop has SSD full of autodesk software for school, so proper linux is currently functionally unattainable since the usb install is not something I enjoyed previously what with my habit of dropping smaller devices |
| 02:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I mean, I never do windows-to-windows copies, but ancilla hosts most of the files for the house and it runs linux |
| 02:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | So the windows machines need to be able to mount parts of it |
| 02:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | Did ancilla replace orias? |
| 02:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | It did! Which is to say, not at all |
| 02:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | More accurately, ancilla has been the family server since before I was born |
| 02:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | When I moved away for university I instantiated orias as my own private server, rural canadian internet being what it is |
| 02:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | THat was going to be my second guess :p |
| 02:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | I recalled the name, but forgot why |
| 02:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | When my mom moved to Guelph I migrated ancilla to my basement and it absorbed the roles orias previously performed, and orias was retired. |
| 02:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | *nods* |
| 02:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | I hope she's well :) |
| 02:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | She has a serious kitchen renovation addiction but is doing well otherwise~ |
| 02:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | Ahh fair. Hope she has good contractor :) |
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| 04:44 | <&McMartin> | All right, time for valgrind |
| 05:07 | <&McMartin> | valgrind has failed me |
| 05:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh nice… |
| 05:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Does that happen often? |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | Depends on what you're looking for. |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | I was looking for a race condition, but gdb's watchpoints are telling me that this is not the problem. |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | Since all edits are in the same thread |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | But now I've found where that changed, and that means that this is the point where the error must have been introduced. |
| 05:51 | <&McMartin> | And now I've got what is clearly some kind of race condition happening in a case where the two variables falling out of sync only seem to ever be accessed from the same thread. |
| 05:58 | < Yossarian> | <@celticminstrel> Does that happen often? |
| 05:58 | < Yossarian> | I heard it happens offen unless you have envvars and libraries all loaded up |
| 06:02 | <&McMartin> | It *worked* in that it functioned |
| 06:03 | <&McMartin> | It didn't work in that it didn't find the use-before-def that I hoped to find because it did not exist |
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| 08:46 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
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| 13:45 | <@abudhabi> | How hard is it to set up a hardware RAID 1? |
| 13:52 | <@abudhabi> | Or, perhaps, the question should be - is it a useful thing to have for a LAN samba server? I want to store my photo, video and cat picture data there, and I would like to add some extra security against data loss. |
| 13:52 | <@abudhabi> | I figure I could also buy a single drive of twice the size and do software RAID 1, right? |
| 13:55 | <@abudhabi> | That would actually be cheaper. |
| 13:56 | <@abudhabi> | There are 2TB drives for 250 PLN. And my collection is like 50 GB only, due to pruning. |
| 13:56 | <@abudhabi> | Could also run an unpruned BTC node on the same server, too. |
| 14:19 | <@abudhabi> | It's possible to make RAID work with a drive connected via USB, right? |
| 14:21 | <@abudhabi> | Hmm. I don't see anything obviously disqualificatory about that idea. |
| 14:48 | < Emmy> | No no no, you do not want to do Raid 1 over a single drive, the point is actually having two separate physical drives |
| 14:55 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 15:09 | <@abudhabi> | Emmy: OK. What are my options if I want increased data durability with a single drive? |
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| 15:17 | < Emmy> | Well, not much, really, aside from getting a good HDD from a reputable manufacturer, and treating it right |
| 15:18 | < Emmy> | You might be a little safer having every file in duplicate, but only a little. Most HDD failures have it failing entirely, and not just with certain files corrupted |
| 15:18 | <@abudhabi> | I see. |
| 15:28 | <@TheWatcher> | If you want increased data durability with a single drive, get a remote backup system subscription~ |
| 15:30 | <~Vornicus> | in fact do that in general |
| 15:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, yeah. |
| 15:30 | <~Vornicus> | if your shit ain't backed up off site, it ain't backed up at all |
| 15:37 | <@abudhabi> | Why, specifically, "off-site"? Why not simply back ups on other machines in general? |
| 15:43 | <~Vornicus> | Because your house can burn down |
| 15:44 | <@abudhabi> | Right. |
| 15:44 | <@abudhabi> | OTOH, if my house burns down, I'm not sure I'll care about my cat pictures. |
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| 16:53 | | * abudhabi remotes into two other computers simultaneously, feels like https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/010/773/DenshaDeD_ch01p16-17.png |
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| 19:01 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, the adage is that if you don't have offsite backups, then you don't actually have backups--you have copies. |
| 20:10 | <@abudhabi> | Hmmm. How would one do non-cloud backups these days? I recall that in the older days, you'd transfer stuff to magnetic tapes and store them. Back when HDDs weren't so huge, but later, you could burn some CDs or DVDs. What's used nowadays? |
| 20:12 | <&McMartin> | Tape backup is technically still a thing! |
| 20:12 | <&McMartin> | But more seriously, the sarcastic definition of The Cloud as "it's your stuff, but on other people's computers" is pretty much the consumer option these days and that hasn't changed. |
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| 20:16 | <@abudhabi> | What I don't like about cloud storage, aside from security and privacy issues, is the running cost. I'd much rather burn a few optical media once a year, if only optical media weren't so small compared to storage needs these days. |
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| 20:18 | <@abudhabi> | And they're going out of style, too. Increasingly hard to get a computer with an optical drive. |
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| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ak1DC1uBuc A fine entry in the Obfuscated C Contest |
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| --- Log closed Sun Sep 27 00:00:44 2020 |