| --- Log opened Sun Jun 03 00:00:40 2018 |
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| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | New Bumbershoot post, might possibly amuse Mahal's Arduino-hacking friend. https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2018/06/03/racing-against-the-atmel-avrs-toolkit/ |
| 01:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: re "I’m going to be focusing on the ATMega328P model here, because that’s the one that featured on Arduino boards." |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | I'm aware it wasn't *exclusively*. |
| 01:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Arduinos use everything from the atmega32 to the atmega2560 depending on which board you get, although the 328-based boards are probably the more popular. |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | There are also ARM32 options, AIUI |
| 01:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | (there are also official Arduino boards that don't use the AVR at all, including x86 and ARM boards, and unofficial "arduino compatible" boards using e.g. the attiny) |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that sentence is saying "why should anyone care about the ATmega328P", not "what are Arduinos made of" |
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| 07:27 | <@abudhabi_> | [R]: I am very fuzzy about it. |
| 07:28 | <@abudhabi_> | [R]: Particularly why running that command twice with the same password yields different outcomes. |
| 07:32 | <&[R]> | My guess is, is that it also generates a random salt |
| 07:40 | <@abudhabi_> | And that's where my understanding slips. If there's a random component, then how does it manage to match passwords? |
| 07:40 | <@abudhabi_> | Unless it stores that random bit somewhere. |
| 07:41 | <&McMartin> | IIRC it's usually a fixed function of the typed-in password itself, so typing the right password will produce the correct salt, but that salt is different across different machines and so you can't just precalculate a dictionary |
| 07:42 | <&McMartin> | Not without knowing the salting function and constants used by that particular machine in advance, anyway. |
| 07:54 | < Vorntastic> | Mmn |
| 07:54 | < Vorntastic> | In most places I've used, the salt is randomly generated and stored |
| 07:57 | < Vorntastic> | Which makes security sense: if the salt is a function of the password then it's just "a part of the having function" so that doesn't really count |
| 07:57 | < Vorntastic> | It's against the point of a salt |
| 07:57 | < Vorntastic> | Hashing function* |
| 08:00 | < Vorntastic> | Salt is designed to make it so you can't reuse the work on one user's password on another's |
| 08:01 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 08:02 | < Vorntastic> | (one other way is to include the username as a salt) |
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| 09:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | I feel like I've encountered a UI crime in the name of eye candy that isn't just overly shiny but winds up severely detrimental: click-and-drag-to-pan interface that HAS INERTIA AND KEEPS MOVING A LITTLE AT A REDUCED SPEED AFTER I LET GO. |
| 09:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | It is very, very visually neat that I can "shove" or "fling" the interface panel around and it keeps moving. it's an absolute nightmare for misclicks everywhere when combined with small UI elements. |
| 09:40 | < Vorntastic> | Fling is good when you're looking at an imageoid but that's about it |
| 09:43 | <&McMartin> | It's also nice for very long webpages because it makes the scroll action continuously animated even though the touch events are only going on maybe 25% of the time |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | Fling is an important part of touch interfaces, and this is one of the few places where it turns out touch interfaces aren't just lousy mouse interfaces or vice versa. |
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| 10:45 | <&[R]> | abudhabi_: Either the above, or like bcrypt, the salt is stored plain-text as part of the hash. Then to check to see if the password matches, you give both the user-submitted password attempt AND the password hash string you have stored, bcrypt then gives you a boolean. |
| 10:45 | <&[R]> | Modern Linux distributions /etc/passwd also do this |
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| 11:03 | <@abudhabi_> | [R]: OK, so the nonsense string includes both the salt and the scrambled password. I can see how that works, sort of. |
| 12:29 | <@TheWatcher> | And depending on the algorithm, it can contain other stuff too - like the number of interations for bcrypt |
| 12:33 | < Vorntastic> | Or indeed the identity of the actual hashing algorithm |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jun 04 00:00:41 2018 |