| --- Log opened Thu Jan 25 00:00:35 2018 |
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| 09:26 | <@gnolam> | Nghrgyrghl |
| 09:26 | <@ErikMesoy> | Aaaaaaa. I have been nudged into trying a 'smart' editor this week and its autocomplete parens/quotes function, while very nice in principle for avoiding syntax errors, grinds at me horribly like gravel in my shoe. Hitting one character input key may now produce zero, one or two characters of text in the field. |
| 09:26 | <@gnolam> | I am producing byte identical output to the program I'm blackboxing. So *why isn't it working*. |
| 09:27 | <@abudhabi> | Timing? |
| 09:27 | <@ErikMesoy> | By all means *show* me my unmatched things. But fixing them *for* me feels Clippy. |
| 09:28 | <@abudhabi> | ErikMesoy: It gets better when you internalize the outcome of a given keypress. |
| 09:28 | <@abudhabi> | It's arbitrary to you now, but when it's the expected outcome, it's pretty good. |
| 09:29 | <@ErikMesoy> | abudhabi: But there isn't a "the outcome" any more. Outcome of a keypress is now context-dependent and variable. ;_; |
| 09:29 | <@abudhabi> | Then learn to include context in your expectations. |
| 09:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | It's infected Backspace too, which may now delete one or two characters. It closes quotes differently from how it closes parens. For that matter, it *backspaces* parens differently from quotes. |
| 09:39 | <@ErikMesoy> | Sometimes when I am trying to close an unmatched paren by inserting its counterpart, editor will helpfully insert another of the original unmatched character to match my new character, leaving me with a still unbalanced line. This is the Spawn of Clippy, I tell you. |
| 09:39 | <@abudhabi> | OK, backspace and delet should be left alone. |
| 09:39 | <@abudhabi> | +e |
| 10:09 | <@macdjord> | abudhabi: Well, one exception: if I hit a key then immediately hit backspace, it should delete /all the characters created by that keypress/, not just the one behind the cursor. |
| 10:10 | <@abudhabi> | That's just, like, your opinion man. |
| 10:10 | <@abudhabi> | It would play merry hell if I wanted to place just one paren. |
| 10:10 | <@abudhabi> | Press ( and get (). Press backspace, and both are deleted. |
| 10:11 | | * TheWatcher eyes |
| 10:13 | <@TheWatcher> | That would driv eme absolutely bugfuck insane. |
| 10:13 | <@TheWatcher> | ... well, insaner... |
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| 10:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | ...it treats deleting a left paren differently from deleting a right paren. |
| 10:37 | <&McMartin> | That's plausible, frankly |
| 10:45 | <@TheWatcher> | That strikes me as program made entirely of Nope features, but then I'm old-fashioned. |
| 10:46 | <@ErikMesoy> | TBF, every individual behavior I've observed of this smart editor is plausible -- I can see a use case. |
| 10:47 | <@ErikMesoy> | But the accumulated result is like I asked for a crowbar and I got an octopus. |
| 10:47 | <@ErikMesoy> | I'm sure the octopus has very impressive grip strength, anti-slip features, and self-contortion ability so it's easier to fit into curved gaps. But it keeps wriggling in my grasp. |
| 10:52 | < Jessikat> | The amusing thing is that the thing it's expecting you to do to be rid of the right paren is probably 'undo' |
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| 11:03 | <@ErikMesoy> | Jessikat: When I type a left paren and it inserts a right paren, 'undo' removes them both. |
| 11:11 | < Jessikat> | This sounds vexing |
| 11:13 | <&McMartin> | It undid everything your keystroke did; I'm genuinely surprised you don't consider that not merely expected but mandatory |
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| 11:14 | < ASCII> | Well, I suppose when you have gotten used to undercover clippy, you start expecting all sorts of shenanigans |
| 11:21 | <@ErikMesoy> | I feel like making some kind of humorous quiz out of this, after the fashion of login:logout. |
| 11:21 | <@ErikMesoy> | "If you type the following keystrokes, what do you think you get? Whatever you answered, it is wrong, because this editor hates you like an ocean of piranha hates a leaking oil tanker, and has approximately the same for sabotage." |
| 11:23 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: In your opinion, if my keystroke does nothing and I undo, should that undo nothing or undo the last non-nothing thing? |
| 11:25 | < Vornlicious> | Typically your keystroke doing nothing means it merely moved your cursor. Cursor placement is not typically recorded as an undoable move |
| 11:25 | < Vornlicious> | So the last non-nothing thing would make sense |
| 11:29 | <@ErikMesoy> | A reasonable principle. Now consider the following implementation. I type "foo" on blank line 1, hit Enter, type a single left paren on line two. This autoinserts a right paren following it. I use the mouse to put the cursor after "foo", and type "bar". I use the mouse to put the cursor after the left paren, and type right paren. |
| 11:30 | <@ErikMesoy> | My manual right paren overwrites the existing right paren to no change, so Undo now removes "bar". |
| 11:31 | <@ErikMesoy> | I can see the reasoning. It's just... octopus. |
| 11:32 | < Jessikat> | McMartin: I reflexively undo after paste now, since VS has a habit of auto formatting my pastes |
| 11:32 | < Vornlicious> | Unsurprising to me |
| 11:32 | < ASCII> | Better than what monodevelop does to them |
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| 12:17 | <@macdjord> | abudhabi: Note: /only/ if I type a key then immediately backspace it. If I do anything else in between, then it should only delete the immediate previous chaarcter. |
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| 14:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: which editor is this? |
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| 16:47 | | * macdjord grumps at the way the latest version of the YouTube page load the video first before everything else - even the page title. |
| 16:48 | <@macdjord> | I mean, yes, the video is the highest priority - but the bandwidth required for a bunch of purely textual elements is /trivial/ compared to that required for even an SD video. |
| 16:53 | <~Vornicus> | the english text of crime and punishment, or a single frame of SD video, uncompressed |
| 16:55 | <~Vornicus> | (fit in one megabyte) |
| 17:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | macdjord: it's not loading the entire video, just the first few seconds (if that), and considering how much JS and CSS cruft most google pages have, I'm not confident that that's actually larger~ |
| 17:28 | <@macdjord> | ToxicFrog: The JS has to be loaded first anyway, doesn't it, since it's what /does/ the dynamic loading of the other content? And, no matter how crufty the code is, it's still not going to be more than a few seconds of video data to match the bandwidth of loading the video's title and description. |
| 17:29 | <@macdjord> | (I have no problem with them delaying the load of, say, the comments section or the video recommendations.) |
| 17:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | macdjord: looking at it in a profiler, the initial page load includes all the title information, and starts loading other stuff as soon as IPL is complete -- but weirdly it doesn't e.g. set the page title until those other loads have at least been started, if I'm reading this right. |
| 17:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | So this may be a legit bug worth reporting. |
| 17:33 | <@macdjord> | ToxicFrog: I have no idea how to report a YouTube bug. |
| 17:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hamburger icon in the upper left -> send feedback. |
| 17:35 | <@macdjord> | Danke. |
| 18:25 | < Jessikat> | Yeah I've noticed YT doing the wrong thing with video playback vs loading the surround lately also |
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| 18:40 | <&[R]> | TIL: gimp has a single-window mode |
| 18:41 | | Kindamoody|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:41 | <~Vornicus> | TIL |
| 18:41 | <&[R]> | Today I Learned |
| 18:42 | <~Vornicus> | or rather |
| 18:42 | <~Vornicus> | TILTT |
| 18:42 | <&[R]> | Today I Learned That The? |
| 18:42 | <~Vornicus> | that too |
| 18:45 | <&[R]> | Definately makes it usable with ratpoison |
| 18:45 | <&[R]> | Had to use Xnest before |
| 18:46 | | * Vornicus pokes at an ec2 instance which isn't doing what he wants |
| 18:46 | <~Vornicus> | I no longer have the actual private key, so I took down the instance went and added a key from a pair that I do have to the volume. But that doesn't work; with that key in place, attempting ssh simply times out |
| 19:06 | | macdjord is now known as macdjord|slep |
| 19:36 | | * abudhabi wonders why Thunderbird is so slow of late. |
| 19:36 | <@abudhabi> | I mean, it freezes for a couple of seconds frequently. |
| 19:37 | <&[R]> | That sucks to hear |
| 19:37 | <&[R]> | I was going to move from Outlook to Thunderbird |
| 19:37 | <@abudhabi> | It's still good, and I don't intend to switch. |
| 19:37 | <@abudhabi> | It didn't happen until recently. |
| 19:37 | <@abudhabi> | Maybe some update broke it. |
| 19:38 | <&[R]> | Though I guess I wouldn't notice that behavior given that's what Windows does |
| 19:38 | <@abudhabi> | Maybe I all I need is a reboot. :V |
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| 21:33 | <&VirusJTG> | might have been the meltdown/specter patches? |
| 21:34 | <&VirusJTG> | I've seen other such behavior since installing them |
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| 22:48 | <@iospace> | could someone please mention my nick, thanks =] (switched irc clients) |
| 22:48 | <@Tamber> | iospace, |
| 22:48 | <@iospace> | ok |
| 22:48 | <@iospace> | one more time |
| 22:48 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 22:48 | <@Tamber> | iospace, for the second time! |
| 22:48 | <@iospace> | works \o/ |
| 22:48 | <@Tamber> | whoo |
| 22:48 | <@iospace> | thanks ^_^ |
| 22:48 | <@iospace> | went from Irssi to Quassel |
| 23:01 | | * ErikMesoy actionably mentions iospace |
| 23:01 | <@iospace> | :P |
| 23:01 | <&[R]> | Quassel's highlight mechanism is pretty reliable |
| 23:02 | <@iospace> | yeah |
| 23:02 | <@iospace> | didn't configure it |
| 23:02 | <@iospace> | worked right away |
| 23:03 | <&[R]> | iospace: FYI, my prefered method of configuring the chatmonitor is to make it "opt in", not show my own messages, show all highlights. It let's me see all the highlights for all channels at once. The default use of the chat monitor is pretty balls, especially if you're in any freenode channels. |
| 23:03 | <&[R]> | If you want a slightly dark theme I can share mine too |
| 23:04 | <@iospace> | I'll probably fuss with it later on |
| 23:04 | <&[R]> | http://blog.nobl.ca/quassel.r.style.qss |
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| 23:11 | <@iospace> | The big thing I want to get rid of is the gap between the usernames and the timestamps |
| 23:13 | <&[R]> | Move your mouse inbetween them until you see a line |
| 23:13 | <&[R]> | Then drag the line |
| 23:14 | <&[R]> | You might have to drag the one between the nicks and the message text though |
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| 23:27 | <@iospace> | I'd more like the nicks left justified against the time stamp, and the start of the message varies really |
| 23:27 | <@iospace> | so close but not exactly what I want |
| 23:27 | <&[R]> | I think you can adjust the alignment with a style file |
| 23:27 | <&[R]> | It's not too dissimilar to CSS |
| 23:46 | <&[R]> | https://github.com/nixomose/cscript |
| --- Log closed Fri Jan 26 00:00:36 2018 |