| --- Log opened Wed Dec 27 00:00:11 2017 |
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| 02:41 | <&Reiver> | ToxicFrog: ... what |
| 02:48 | <&[R]> | When Windows might be slightly corrupted |
| 02:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiver, [R]: bad VRAM. |
| 02:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Bit 0x00000008 of every 32-bit word is stuck at 0. |
| 02:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | This menu is displayed in text mode, where the CPU writes ASCII text to VRAM and the video card handles the actual fonting. |
| 02:58 | <&[R]> | How bad does a non-text display look in that situation? |
| 03:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | Probably not that bad if it's being used a framebuffer -- this works out to one of the RGBA channels sometimes being 8 less (in a 0-256 range) than it should be, which isn't much. |
| 03:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're storing VBOs or shaders or something you are probably going to have a bad time. |
| 03:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | (do shaders even go in VRAM or are GPUs Harvard architecture?) |
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| 10:01 | | * McMartin does his annual revisit to Rust. |
| 10:01 | <&McMartin> | All the comments marked /* TODO: ugly workarounds because $API is unstable */ are gone now |
| 10:01 | <&McMartin> | And I've been able to improve the APIs I'd made some, and it no longer imports internal types that shouldn't be exported. |
| 10:02 | <&McMartin> | There's still one overspecified type constraint, but that's it now. |
| 10:05 | <@himi> | What's the project? |
| 10:06 | <&McMartin> | sort of an ad-hoc XSLT thing. It reads in an XML document and creates a set of HTML pages based on it. |
| 10:07 | <&McMartin> | I wrote it at 1.0 and have been watching it get less ugly over the past several years. |
| 10:07 | <@himi> | How much of the parsing is implemented in your code? |
| 10:07 | <&McMartin> | I'm using the xml-rs crate. |
| 10:07 | <&McMartin> | So it's turning XML into a collection of custom structs, but it's very SAXy. |
| 10:08 | | * himi needs to revisit his pet rust project again |
| 10:08 | <@himi> | I've been keeping up with rust's progress, but I never seem to have time to actually write anything in rust |
| 10:09 | <&McMartin> | I had a siable recursive descent parser written, but no use case for it so it got abandoned |
| 10:09 | <&McMartin> | And one should ideally use a parser combinator library instead |
| 10:09 | | * himi has a possible project that would be work related, but needs enough time outside work to make it vaguely usable before trying to justify it at work |
| 10:10 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, all work I've done that I can justify for work is C-related. |
| 10:11 | <@himi> | On the plus side, I'm technically team leader now - I can make decisions like that myself! |
| 10:11 | <@himi> | (and formally hopefully Feb next year - extra money to go with the responsibility!) |
| 10:12 | <@himi> | Except I also have to be responsible and not just willy-nilly introduce obscure programming languages and home-baked projects just because they're cool and I can . . . |
| 10:13 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 10:13 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I managed to get a Go project at work, but it was highly suited for it |
| 10:14 | <@himi> | I'm in the lovely position of working mostly on OpenStack, and that means /everything/ is Python |
| 10:14 | <@himi> | Which is great in some respects - after all, Python is decent compared to, for example, Perl - but it's also very limiting from a personal development perspective |
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| 13:15 | <&[R]> | Wow, I'm used to seeing nothing but bitching about how much a pain rust is to work with as a package maintainer (as it's a dependency of Firefox now) |
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| 15:49 | <&[R]> | TIL systemd does "improved" chrooting too |
| 15:51 | <@Tamber> | oh dear. |
| 15:52 | <@Tamber> | because it didn't do enough stuff already~? |
| 15:52 | <&[R]> | Pretty much |
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| 19:11 | <&McMartin> | How much of that bitching is because they need to type 'rustup' instead of 'configure && make'? |
| 19:12 | <&[R]> | None |
| 19:12 | <&[R]> | Mostly related to rust's package manager |
| 19:12 | <&McMartin> | And if they aren't using a prebuilt rust as part of the firefox build process *why aren't they*; you don't build gcc from scratch for each package |
| 19:12 | <@Tamber> | ...YOU DON'T?! |
| 19:12 | <@Tamber> | Man, that's where I've been going wrong! |
| 19:12 | <&McMartin> | Not last I checked anyway |
| 19:12 | <&McMartin> | I don't know what Debian does these days |
| 19:13 | <&[R]> | I think you might have misread? |
| 19:13 | <&McMartin> | I'm actually curious what cargo's missing for that |
| 19:13 | <&McMartin> | That, e.g., Maven and Cabal have, since those are long-standing and very similar from a normal end-user's standpoint |
| 19:20 | <&[R]> | <abenz> is that why we are on esr? or is it a general policy? |
| 19:20 | <&[R]> | <frinnst> because rust is ugly |
| 19:20 | <&[R]> | <abenz> but eventually we'll jump ship? |
| 19:20 | <&[R]> | <frinnst> its buggy and breaks every other release |
| 19:20 | <&[R]> | <frinnst> yeah ofcourse. esr wont be maintained forever |
| 19:20 | <&[R]> | <abenz> so hopefully by time we have to jump, rust will be better? |
| 19:24 | <&[R]> | That's all about FF though |
| 19:24 | <&[R]> | Later two-line talk about cargo which is basically "oh yeah, cargo's bundled in rust now" "oh, that's great actually." |
| 19:24 | <&[R]> | Don't feel like keeping on scrolling for more ranting ATM |
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| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, OK |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Fedora seems to have integrated Rust a lot more tightly into its core repos than Debian did, so I can see that being a thing |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | And, bluntly, anyone who thinks C is elegant will always find Rust ugly. |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | It restricts your actions and calls it its core feature |
| 20:55 | <&[R]> | Aye, these are package maintainers though. They have scripts that build the packages. They don't like having to update their build scripts each update. |
| 20:55 | <&[R]> | Which is their complaint, AIUI |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | Right, which is where I get a little boggled because it seems like they shouldn't be building Rust any more than they'd be building gcc |
| 21:03 | <&[R]> | It's not rust they're building |
| 21:03 | <&[R]> | It's FF |
| 21:03 | <&[R]> | Well, they /are/ building FF |
| 21:04 | <&[R]> | It's just FF's Rust stuff is build-script-breaking |
| 22:52 | <@himi> | The new firefox is breaking a lot of stuff |
| 22:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Could someone just make a browser that's actually good already. :/ |
| 22:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Then we don't need to care if Firefox or Chrome break everything. |
| 22:59 | < ErikMesoy> | No. |
| 23:01 | < ErikMesoy> | I've been prodding Brave for the past few months as the latest installment in Regularly Cycle Browsers trying to find what works well this season, and its current dysfunction is that tabs will sometimes randomly become unclickable and uninteractable for no obvious reason. |
| 23:10 | <@himi> | Browsers are insanely complex these days, or they're largely unusable for anything people want to ues them for |
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| 23:24 | < Degi> | wget |
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| 23:34 | <&McMartin> | It seems to me like the most common use case for web browsers these days is "as an ersatz operating system", with those who primarily want to view hypertext as a dwindling minority |
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| --- Log closed Thu Dec 28 00:00:13 2017 |