| --- Log opened Sat Apr 01 00:00:45 2017 |
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| 00:49 | < RchrdB> | McMartin, what language are you working in? |
| 00:50 | < RchrdB> | You may be well served by something like Gaynor et al's "cryptography" library https://pypi.python.org/pypi/cryptography/1.8.1 |
| 00:51 | < RchrdB> | or libsodium or something |
| 00:53 | < RchrdB> | Writing code that calls crypto primitives (e.g. anything with the words "AES" or "RSA" in the name) is almost exactly as fraught with peril as writing those primitives yourself. Way safer is using peer reviewed libraries that bundle up common sensible patterns instead. |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | RchrdB: I am in fact using libsodium. |
| 01:13 | < RchrdB> | Excellent те |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | That said, what I *want* is a standard that technically exists but which not enough people support. |
| 01:14 | < RchrdB> | ? |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | And for which it is not clear that either "redefine the problem so that standards that are already supported solve it" nor "redefine the people with the problem to those who support the standard" nor "ship a base implementation of the standard along with everything else" are acceptable. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | If DTLS 1.2 actually existed on my target platforms I wouldn't need any of this |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | But DTLS is also massive overkill for what I actually need to do. |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | which is essentially a glorified version of a game-matchmaking service but that I want to not to be trivially fuck-with-able by anyone on the same wi-fi network. |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | "Ship your own full set of networking libraries" is politically inconvenient at the moment, especially since, as noted, I think I can get around this with libsodium and like two days of work. |
| 01:17 | < RchrdB> | If it's matchmaking, why DTLS not vanilla TLS? |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | There's actually a vanilla TLS component already that does everything that's truly important, but it's a mobile platform for the client and we have reason to believe we're getting killed by packets that should be dropped instead of doing all the repeat cycles. |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | So the data we don't care about protecting is already UDP-based and that's fine. |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | The main thing I'm trying to accomplish here is to make it slightly harder to impersonate someone in the same room by tunneling their UDP connection as it's set up, more or less. Thanks to NAT we can't rely on apparent origin. |
| 01:21 | < RchrdB> | I don't understand what your problem space is. |
| 01:21 | < RchrdB> | Why do you need UDP at all for matchmaking? "Send a prospective player a list of servers that they could join" seems like something that doesn't have any VOIP-y kind of "only the latest data matters and head-of-line blocking is a death spiral" kind of characteristics? |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | Because I'm lying about a product that doesn't exist yet~ |
| 01:21 | < RchrdB> | I assume you have already thought about stuff and there are reasons that I just am not aware of. |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | Like most products of startups, it is entirely vulnerable to the question "why are you doing this instead of going with any 20 of a set of 50,000 other competitors, most of whom are more famous than you", yes, and I'm deliberately lying about the exact use case because this channel is not only public but logged. |
| 01:25 | < RchrdB> | Okay. |
| 01:25 | < RchrdB> | You could lie about a use-case that has identical traffic patterns to your actual use-case though? ;) |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | I'm personally new to the space and am bad at that part~ |
| 01:26 | < RchrdB> | yar |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | (We *do* trade heavily in streamed data though) |
| 01:26 | < RchrdB> | You're competing with Twitch, right? |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | I'd say it's fairer to say our flagship product is competing with Mobcrush |
| 01:27 | <&McMartin> | The stuff I'm working on isn't directly connected to that, though~ |
| 01:27 | < RchrdB> | I'm partial to the idea that, if your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down peoples' throats rather than having them stolen |
| 01:27 | < RchrdB> | humans mainly steal dumb ideas. :3 |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | Yes, well, we'll see |
| 01:32 | <&McMartin> | (We actually interoperate with Twitch, which depending on what things you already own may mean we're the most convenient way to stream to them) |
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| 02:58 | | * celticminstrel wonders if it's still considered bad practice to overload operator& when it's simply "return shared_from_this()". |
| 02:59 | <&McMartin> | That sounds terrifying to me |
| 02:59 | <@celticminstrel> | ...speaking of enable_shared_from_this, is it my imagination or is it only really useful for classes that don't have any subclasses? |
| 02:59 | <@celticminstrel> | XD |
| 02:59 | <&McMartin> | You are absolutely correct, unless no shared_ptr version of any subclass will ever be "public" |
| 03:00 | <@celticminstrel> | "public"? |
| 03:00 | <&McMartin> | "actually used by anyone as opposed to the semantics provided by the keyword 'public' wrt inheritance" |
| 03:01 | <&McMartin> | Like if the subclass is just reimplementing some functions, or adding new functions that are only ever called from those reimplementations, ISTR you're fine |
| 03:01 | <&McMartin> | (Because the "shared from this" pointer ends up being that superclass) |
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| 03:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Are there real arguments against making binary operators virtual or am I just being paranoid? |
| 03:56 | <@celticminstrel> | (C++ of course) |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | I've always personally preferred the overloads that live entirely outside of classes. |
| 03:57 | <@celticminstrel> | There's that too. |
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| 21:27 | <&McMartin> | Today in Internet Is Useless Day: https://twitter.com/CousinAmygdala/status/847671708928442375 |
| 21:27 | <&McMartin> | This seems like the most appropriate channel for this >_> |
| 21:28 | < Jessikat> | xD |
| --- Log opened Sat Apr 01 21:50:47 2017 |
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| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: It's more useless than usual for 47 hours each year |
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| 23:40 | | * McMartin returns from coffeeshop where he spent the afternoon hacking in a pure DOS environment. |
| 23:49 | <&McMartin> | Got that smoking-clover program to be based on the timer interrupt instead of delays |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | In a vast shocker, this turns out to produce far smoother animation! |
| --- Log closed Sun Apr 02 00:00:37 2017 |