| --- Log opened Wed Feb 22 00:00:35 2017 |
| 00:40 | <@himi> | ugh |
| 00:41 | <@himi> | Anyone know of a json parser that knows how to ignore comments? |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | jsoncpp can ignore or collect as desired |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | https://github.com/open-source-parsers/jsoncpp |
| 00:44 | <@himi> | . . . a C++ library is a /little/ more work to use than I was hoping for, given I'm interested in translating half a dozen json config files into yaml equivalents |
| 01:06 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | Probably not what you were aiming for, then. |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | jsoncpp is probably the best JSON library I've ever used, though. |
| 01:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | I thought JSON didn't support comments? |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | There's a lot of things that JSON doesn't support but that one would like a JSON parser to accept. |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | The two primary ones being comments and commas after the last element in a list or dictionary. |
| 01:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, but the upshot of this is that you need to define what you mean by a "JSON comment" before this is even a meaningful question, because I can think of at least three possibilities |
| 01:27 | <&ToxicFrog> | himi: what kind of language/environment are you operating in, and how do you expect these comments to be formatted? |
| 01:36 | <@himi> | TF: // format, and this is just a one time process so in the end it doesn't matter all that much if I end up deleting them and using whatever works |
| 01:39 | <@himi> | This is a puppet environment where someone thought that using json as the configuration data store made more sense than using yaml |
| 01:40 | <@himi> | In practise this is insanity, so I'm in the process of converting it - the comments are meaningful, so I'd like to keep them if possible, but not so important that I'm going to spend more time trying to automate the process of transferring them or even just ignoring them in the parse than I'd spend literally cutting and pasting them manually |
| 02:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | For the "just remove them" case, just run them through `sed '/^ *\/\//d'` |
| 04:41 | <@macdjord> | himi: The JSON standard explicitly does not permit comments; early versions did, but people started using them for ad-hoc processing directives, which killed interoperability, so they were eliminated |
| 04:42 | <@macdjord> | This lack is exactly why I switched to YAML for my config files |
| 04:43 | <@macdjord> | himi: On the other hand, JSON is a strict subset of YAML these days, so you could just change all the comments from '//' to '#' and call it done |
| 05:18 | | * McMartin starts ripping out an audiocassette data format |
| 05:19 | <&McMartin> | This thing can actually export as .WAV but roundtripping through .WAV is more work than I think should be necessary |
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| 05:57 | <&McMartin> | This is the worst runtime I've ever seen |
| 06:00 | <&McMartin> | In order to save a program you must also save a copy of screen memory, because screen memory is located in *the middle* of a saved program. |
| 06:05 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep |
| 06:10 | <~Vornicus> | what is this runtime |
| 06:11 | <&McMartin> | It is the BASIC for the Sinclair ZX81 |
| 06:11 | <&McMartin> | The unlamented precursor to the Spectrum |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | Also the first home computer my family ever owned |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | Z80 based |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | So it's time for me to do a revisit as a jaded adult |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | And man |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | Filing this under "failing to reach the lofty heights of technical sophistication and ease of use reached by the Atari 2600" |
| 06:12 | <~Vornicus> | Ouch. |
| 06:13 | <&McMartin> | And this with a system whose standard kit included a full 16KB of RAM |
| 06:14 | <&McMartin> | It looks like people managed to get high-resolution graphics out of it without expansion packs (which it was very good at) by doing crazypants scanline stuff |
| 06:14 | <&McMartin> | This thing spends 80% of its time servicing display interrupts |
| 06:14 | <&McMartin> | Unlike the 2600 it's not as good at retaining vertical hold, so the display rolls if it works too hard |
| 06:14 | <&McMartin> | The emulator I'm using mimics this, and does it way too much for actual model I had |
| 06:15 | <&McMartin> | Which I think is because it's not got NTSC timings quite right in the emu. |
| 06:15 | <&McMartin> | But if I can get some decent power into this thing I should be able to actually dump the ROM out the cassette port and into the mic port of a computer. |
| 06:16 | <&McMartin> | I've never done Z80 coding before this either, which is kind of dumb too, but oh well |
| 06:16 | <&McMartin> | Funny bits: there is no restriction on what can go into a basic line, and BASIC lines can theoretically be 64KB long each, despite there only being 16KB of RAM, usually. |
| 06:16 | <&McMartin> | So you can just cram entire machine language routines into a REM |
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| 06:26 | <~Vornicus> | How much time does the 2600 spend servicing display interrupts |
| 06:28 | <&McMartin> | What's an 'interrupt' |
| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | 2600 removed all the interrupt pins from the CPU to save on manufacturing costs |
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| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | So you're doing it all manually |
| 06:30 | <&McMartin> | But that also means that you do your own work in there and this also turns into some wackiness because you rock custom collision logics and such |
| 06:30 | <&McMartin> | The 2600 is really pretty incomparable |
| 06:30 | <~Vornicus> | so wait how could you tell, etc etc |
| 06:31 | <~Vornicus> | Okay I guess better question, compare to c64 |
| 06:31 | <&McMartin> | Two generations behind |
| 06:31 | <&McMartin> | The C64 loses, hm |
| 06:31 | | * McMartin does some math |
| 06:32 | <&McMartin> | In the absence of sprite multiplexing shenanigans |
| 06:32 | <&McMartin> | It loses about a thousand cycles out of every 17,000 or so. |
| 06:32 | <&McMartin> | A few dozen more if you've got sprites out |
| 06:33 | <&McMartin> | But the hallmark of the 3rd gen (C64, NES, etc) is dedicated graphics chips |
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| 06:33 | <&McMartin> | And then the VIC-20 had a graphics chip but it never interfered with the CPU at all |
| 06:34 | <&McMartin> | ... which is why you had a 22x23 screen and no pixel-level control |
| 06:34 | <&McMartin> | But, like |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | The display from the ZX81 actually flips the fuck out because it doesn't give a valid television signal with some regularity |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | The VIC and VIC-II ships of the VIC-20 and C64 guarantee that this will never happen. |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | *chips |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | The Atari 2600, properly programmed, also will never have this happen. |
| 06:36 | <&McMartin> | NES will flip out, but it will flip out for reasons that have nothing to do with the composite video signal |
| 06:36 | <~Vornicus> | Both my c64s had their graphics chips fall over as far as I can tell. |
| 06:37 | <&McMartin> | Could be, but it's more likely that its address multiplexer is what blew out. |
| 06:37 | <&McMartin> | That was a proto-FPGA (a "PLA", apparently), and that chip is apparently most often the first to go. |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | Tape Ripper: SUCCESS |
| 06:46 | | * McMartin now has the original, terrible version of Galaxy Patrol, and also some things that are clearly the same style of game as FACETANK |
| 06:46 | <&McMartin> | I wonder if I'm remembering these from my early youth or if there's only so many ways you can reimplement Kaboom. |
| 06:48 | <~Vornicus> | what is Kaboom |
| 06:51 | <&McMartin> | A game by activision, which stars the Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight |
| 06:51 | <&McMartin> | he drops bombs at an ever-increasing rate |
| 06:51 | <&McMartin> | You have a breakout bat that is actually a bucket of water and you must catch all the bombs |
| 06:53 | <~Vornicus> | Damn, that's nuts. |
| 06:53 | <~Vornicus> | Also the first video I found about it started with, um, it was a very 90s intro, I'll say that |
| 06:53 | <&McMartin> | The game itself dates from early-2600 era |
| 06:54 | <&McMartin> | I'm not quite sure if the game is in fact a Breakout-class or its own thing |
| 06:54 | <~Vornicus> | I'd actually put it in the same vague bin as Bagger, Tapper, and Ducks Ahoy |
| 06:54 | <&McMartin> | Ducks Ahoy has more of a maze aspect to it |
| 06:55 | <&McMartin> | The thing about Kaboom is that when it really gets going you are basically acting like a cartoon character playing tennis at mach 3 |
| 07:03 | <~Vornicus> | though closer to Bagger than anything else. |
| 07:04 | <~Vornicus> | Apparently David Crane did the sprites for Kaboom. Later he did Ghostbusters for C64 |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | David Crane did a whole lot of things |
| 07:12 | <~Vornicus> | Dang, he did |
| 07:12 | <&McMartin> | This may include "inventing the platformer" |
| 07:24 | <~Vornicus> | I didn't realize he was responsible for Pitfall |
| 07:36 | <~Vornicus> | I was similarly unaware of his involvement in A Boy And His Blob |
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| 15:36 | < LadyOfLight> | Today I am mostly converting C++ code into C# |
| 15:36 | < LadyOfLight> | It is *thrilling* |
| 15:36 | <@TheWatcher> | EXCITEMENT! |
| 15:36 | <@TheWatcher> | ADVENTURE! |
| 15:38 | <@iospace> | and MASOCHISM |
| 15:43 | | macdjord|slep is now known as macdjord|wurk |
| 15:45 | <@Azash> | Reminds me of a project a coworker mentioned, involving a black box (to him) system that would take a .jar and eventually plop out a .c |
| 15:45 | <@Azash> | No explanation was ever given |
| 15:46 | <@Tamber> | "Eventually" being the key word? |
| 15:56 | < LadyOfLight> | That's |
| 15:57 | < LadyOfLight> | Does the .c file need to be in any way related? |
| 16:00 | <@Azash> | It was a direct result of processing the .jar yes |
| 16:01 | <@Azash> | Tamber: Some minutes, apparently |
| 16:01 | <@Tamber> | Oh, that's not so bad. |
| 17:28 | | celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel |
| 17:39 | < LadyOfLight> | Also I had a bit of a breakthrough in terms of thinking about Reduct today |
| 17:39 | < LadyOfLight> | But I can't really explain it on a phone, u just realised |
| 17:39 | < LadyOfLight> | I just* |
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| 19:43 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 19:44 | <&McMartin> | Also, having been burned by simultaneous C++/Java development in the past: watch out for those types that are mutable and passed by reference everywhere in C# but by value by default in C++ >_< |
| 19:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Doesn't C# have pass-by-value in ways that Java doesn't? |
| 19:54 | <@celticminstrel> | ISTR that it had some sort of struct-equivalent or something. |
| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | It does but it's finicky and it's still *different* |
| 19:56 | <&McMartin> | Because you can get code that superficially looks similar but has very different API contracts |
| 19:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Fair enough. |
| 19:56 | <&McMartin> | LoL's predilections means she's less likely to hit those, though, as immutability solves everything >_> |
| 20:04 | < LadyOfLight`> | it turns out that the only significant problem has been that I used some iterators and need them to be indices to make the logic neat in C# |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | Hooray for that being straightforward, good luck with the refactor there |
| 20:06 | < LadyOfLight`> | It was pretty straightforward :) |
| 20:06 | < LadyOfLight`> | Immutability /does/ solve everything :P |
| 20:06 | < LadyOfLight`> | * |
| 20:09 | <&McMartin> | I'm vaguely proud that I can predict these bits >_> |
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| 20:37 | < LadyOfLight`> | :D |
| 20:48 | | * Vornicus hats LadyOfLight`! |
| 21:08 | <&jeroud> | LadyOfLight`: For your next trick, rewrite it in F#. :-P |
| 21:12 | < LadyOfLight`> | Okay :D |
| 21:12 | < LadyOfLight`> | I don't know F#, but I imagine it wouldn't be hard to pick up |
| 21:15 | <&jeroud> | It borrows heavily from OCaml. |
| 21:16 | <&jeroud> | Very heavily. There is a mutually intelligible subset of both languages. |
| 21:16 | <&jeroud> | Although idiomatic F# uses some syntax shortcuts that OCaml doesn't have. |
| 21:28 | | LadyOfLight`` [catalyst@Nightstar-9lu59t.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | Every time I want to play with something high-level something low-level distracts me again |
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| 21:31 | | * Vornicus just kind of wishes he felt like any of his projects were appropriate to try learning haskell or something to. |
| 21:36 | < LadyOfLight`> | I don't know OCaml either :D |
| 21:36 | <&McMartin> | Those Jane Street videos were fun but in the end not what I was looking for. |
| 21:42 | | Kindamoody|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody |
| 22:03 | <&jeroud> | McMartin: I didn't really think they would be. |
| 22:03 | <&jeroud> | But I'm glad you enjoyed them. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Feb 23 00:00:36 2017 |