| --- Log opened Fri Sep 16 00:00:41 2016 |
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| 09:03 | <@Emmy> | werkidy werk werk |
| 09:03 | <@simon> | I've got a server that has turned off unexpectedly twice in three weeks. |
| 09:03 | <@simon> | (running Windows Server 2008) |
| 09:05 | <@simon> | the logs say that the reset button most likely wasn't pressed (no signal from it), so it's either a power outage or some kind of system failure (e.g. a faulty software driver, or some hardware gone bad) |
| 09:05 | < catadroid> | Have it culled |
| 09:05 | <@simon> | culled? |
| 09:06 | < catadroid> | Removed from the herd. |
| 09:06 | <@simon> | oh :) |
| 09:06 | <@simon> | we might have to |
| 09:07 | <@simon> | I can't rule out power outage, but the redundant power supply seems very stable when I look at its voltage levels. maybe the CPU is getting hotter than it should - it has a base idle avg. of 63C, so when it starts spinning later today I'll see if it goes way up or what. |
| 09:07 | <@simon> | besides running a memtest, I'm not sure what other diagnostics I could perform. the software on it hasn't changed in a long time, so I don't think it's a faulty driver. |
| 09:07 | <@Emmy> | maybe it has a dusty issues? |
| 09:07 | <@simon> | yes, maybe. that would show on temperatures, right? |
| 09:08 | <@simon> | but wouldn't a smart system like Windows 2008 throw some alarms if the CPU gets really hot, before the hardware shuts itself down? |
| 09:08 | <@simon> | there's nothing in the event viewer that suggests overheating. not sure if it'd end up there, though. |
| 09:09 | | * simon wonders how he applied for a developer job and ended up being responsible for Windows servers. >_< |
| 09:09 | <@Emmy> | it should |
| 09:10 | <@Emmy> | 'but be advised that you used 'smart' and 'windows' in the same sentence. |
| 09:10 | | * Emmy shrugs |
| 09:16 | <@simon> | I hate sysadmining. |
| 09:18 | <@simon> | trying to figure out how to hook this server up via a serial console, so I can run a remote memtest. I've never done this before without the server company having provided an extremely easy web-access GUI for it, and now it seems I need to find and enable some feature in a Cisco router. >_< |
| 09:25 | <@simon> | hmm, apparently there are user-space memtest programs. that would probably work. |
| 09:32 | <@simon> | apparently there's only user-space memtest programs for Linux. |
| 09:34 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 09:34 | <@TheWatcher> | 63C idle? Eouch |
| 09:36 | <@Emmy> | hmmmh. kinda funny. You'd think that linux would be the one place userspace deep administration tools wouldn't work |
| 09:36 | <@Emmy> | yeap. my PC doesn't even get 60 under stress-test load |
| 09:36 | <@Emmy> | then again, my PC is not a commercial server. |
| 09:38 | <&[R]> | <Emmy> hmmmh. kinda funny. You'd think that linux would be the one place userspace deep administration tools wouldn't work <-- possibly requires root. |
| 10:09 | <@simon> | I don't know if 60C is bad for a Xeon server. *sigh* |
| 10:09 | <@simon> | I tried to stress the CPU and it got to <80C. now I'm running a memory benchmark and the CPU actually goes to 90C :D |
| 10:11 | <@simon> | hm. after running for 10 minutes, the exhaust temperature of the box hasn't changed. that CPU temperature surely takes a long time to dissipate. |
| 10:11 | <@simon> | (exhaust temp. is measured at 37C) |
| 10:15 | < catadroid> | It turns out that locking the entire repo is considered bad form |
| 10:16 | <&[R]> | Depends on the software |
| 10:16 | <&[R]> | There's some where that's actually part of the normal workflow |
| 10:17 | <&[R]> | Because ENTERPRISEY and sane workflows are not compatable. |
| 10:18 | <@simon> | http://i.imgur.com/ncM4OAc.png :P |
| 10:19 | <@simon> | catadroid, you should try writing "BEGIN TRANSACTION" in SQL Server query window in a production environment. |
| 10:19 | < catadroid> | Hm? |
| 10:20 | <@simon> | catadroid, I was playing around with some queries some months ago when I realized that if I touched some tables inside a transaction, I'd completely halt various production systems waiting for my lock on the database to resolve. ;) |
| 10:20 | < catadroid> | :d |
| 10:20 | <@TheWatcher> | simon: 21C in 37C out for a system running those temperatures internally screams horribly dusty/gunked up fans and innards to me |
| 10:20 | < catadroid> | I see |
| 10:20 | <@simon> | TheWatcher, thank you for pointing that out! |
| 10:20 | < catadroid> | Mmm, melty |
| 10:21 | <@simon> | TheWatcher, I believe the system has been running for several years several thousand kilometers away, and I've seen how dusty the office servers get after that time, so. |
| 10:21 | < catadroid> | The further away a system is, the more dust it collects due to floating point error accumulation |
| 10:21 | <@TheWatcher> | only counting machines I have outside the machine room, the xeons idle around 30C, and hit about 50C under heavy load. |
| 10:27 | <@simon> | catadroid, haha. |
| 10:28 | <@simon> | catadroid, I just mean, nobody bothered to dust off the local office servers, so surely nobody bothered to dust off those servers in remote datacenters. |
| 10:28 | <@simon> | TheWatcher, ok. so dusting off is on the list. thanks! |
| 10:29 | <@simon> | then they operate at +30C of what we could expect. maybe some new cooling paste is in order, too. |
| 10:35 | <@Emmy> | hmmmh. Well, with servers in a commercial data centers you WOULD expect dusting them off every once in a while would be included in the whole 'ensuring a FUNCTIONING server for you' -business. |
| 11:05 | <@simon> | Emmy, I think we're just renting rack space. |
| 11:05 | <@simon> | Emmy, but I think we can get them to do the dusting off if we ask. |
| 11:09 | <@Emmy> | that'd be nice. prevents you from having to get out there by yourself. |
| 11:09 | <@Emmy> | which might get rather problematic depending on distance |
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| 12:46 | <@gnolam> | "This Fibonacci joke is as bad as the last two you heard combined" |
| 12:46 | <@abudhabi> | Ow. |
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| 12:49 | <&[R]> | I chuckled |
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| 13:15 | <@simon> | https://gist.github.com/sshine/5e7d98b1337ddc84592d7f3487f7f94f -- if this were lazy, functional programming I'd make a huge: case (isHardcoded, isTestEqualToReference, isTestCorrect, isTestFound, ...) of (True, _, _, _, ...) -> A; and so on |
| 13:15 | <@simon> | how would you restructure this in C# so that it's more table-like? |
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| 13:48 | <&jerith> | Very attn McMartin: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/5054 |
| 13:50 | <&jerith> | simon: Use F#?~ |
| 13:52 | <@simon> | jerith, that'd literally be the only F# code in here. I am very tempted. I wonder if our build system would need anything. |
| 13:52 | <@simon> | considering these are my last 3½ months here, I'm not sure they'd appreciate it. :P |
| 13:53 | <@simon> | OTOH, the entire IT dept. except my boss are all pretty happy about FP. |
| 13:53 | <&jerith> | F# should be fairly straightforward to build. |
| 13:54 | <&jerith> | That said, my experience with it has been all mono with some minor hackery to make things work on appveyor as well. |
| 13:55 | | * jerith waits impatiently for vagrant+virtualbox to provision 8 VMs. |
| 14:22 | <@simon> | turns out I can't stuff F# code in the same project file as C# code... |
| 14:22 | <@simon> | since a separate project for a single function is probably a little overkill, I'm gonna hold back on the F#. :) |
| 14:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Mwahahahahaha, it works! |
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| 15:03 | | * jerith gasps. |
| 15:03 | <~Vornicus> | mwahahahahaha, what works? |
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| 15:37 | <@abudhabi> | http://static1.squarespace.com/static/51361f2fe4b0f24e710af7ae/54b5c35ee4b0b6572 f6dac96/54b5c367e4b0226a8ffadefe/1421198184280/codeeval2015.001.jpg |
| 17:16 | <@celticminstrel> | It's undefined behaviour to call x->y() if x is null, right? |
| 17:16 | < catadroid> | Yeah. Though what you'll get is usually an OS access violation |
| 17:17 | | * celticminstrel notices that, typically, it just calls the function anyway with a null this pointer. |
| 17:17 | <@celticminstrel> | It'd be nice if x->y() could call decltype(x)::y(x) if y were static. |
| 17:21 | < catadroid> | That really confuses the concept of what a method is |
| 17:22 | < catadroid> | And yeah, there's no way to tell at compile time whether a variable will be null, so it generates the code to deference to the memory location |
| 17:23 | < catadroid> | Usually that crash happens inside the method rather than outside of it |
| 17:23 | < catadroid> | Since it gets called successfully with this = nullptr |
| 17:23 | < catadroid> | So the actual line that fails may be actually quite far away from the error |
| 17:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Pretty sure C++ is already confusing the concept of what a method is though... or at least there was a proposal like that. |
| 17:24 | < catadroid> | Hm? |
| 17:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Something like "let's make x.y() and y(x) always mean the same thing regardless of whether y is actually defined in the class of x". |
| 17:25 | < catadroid> | What i mean is that C++ methods have an implicit variable in them, so the call syntax needs to mean that variable is passed or they become even more ambiguous |
| 17:25 | < catadroid> | Oh, yeah |
| 17:25 | < catadroid> | I really want that syntax |
| 17:25 | < catadroid> | It's so handy |
| 17:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Though that's not in C++11, so I can't use it for awhile. |
| 17:26 | <@celticminstrel> | No idea whether it's in C++14 or proposed for C++17. |
| 17:26 | < catadroid> | I think it's unified call syntax? Can't remember if it's in the 17 proposal |
| 17:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Something like that, yeah. |
| 17:26 | < catadroid> | It's not in 14 |
| 17:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay. |
| 17:26 | < catadroid> | 14 was more of a bugfix than anything new |
| 17:26 | <@celticminstrel> | But it added some things like make_unique. |
| 17:26 | <@celticminstrel> | And additional overloads for some algorithms, I think. |
| 17:28 | < catadroid> | It seems not |
| 17:28 | <@celticminstrel> | Not what? |
| 17:28 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, not in C++17 proposal? |
| 17:29 | < catadroid> | Yeah, the biggest things in 14 I think are auto parameters in lambdas and the generalised constexpr |
| 17:29 | < catadroid> | Yeah, it's not in the 17 draft |
| 17:29 | < catadroid> | (which is basically finalised in terms of big features bar the details) |
| 18:54 | < McMartin> | C++14 also includes the generalized lambda parameters, which I love more than the auto ones |
| 18:54 | < McMartin> | Er |
| 18:55 | < McMartin> | generalized lambda captures |
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| 19:56 | < McMartin> | jerith: Very Cool, and you beat Ars Technica to the scoop! |
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| 21:04 | | * McMartin remembers that std::string literals are also in C++14, ++s for that too |
| 21:07 | | * catalyst has still gone right off C++ :< |
| 21:08 | < McMartin> | An awful lot of these features can be summarized as "the cement in this brick wall you need to knock down with your face is now weaker" |
| 21:08 | < catalyst> | To be fair, C++ is very good at the things it is good aty |
| 21:08 | < catalyst> | at* |
| 21:08 | < McMartin> | Yep |
| 21:09 | < McMartin> | I've been doing a ton of iOS work at work lately, so my mind has been bent into the Objective-C/raw C groove of late |
| 21:09 | < McMartin> | The payoffs for various techniques are really quite different on ObjC than C++ |
| 21:09 | < McMartin> | That's interesting academically, but bridging the gaps between platform neutral C++ code and iOS-specific ObjC code has stronger cement on those bricks than I'd like. :) |
| 21:12 | < catalyst> | ^^ |
| 21:12 | < catalyst> | I'm just entirely burned out and can't code for shit |
| 21:12 | < catalyst> | so I'm supporting our head of animation in tools development instead |
| 21:14 | < McMartin> | That sounds healthy for now |
| 21:15 | < McMartin> | I've always enjoyed the bits of Clojure, Haskell, etc. that let you do very high-level stuff, but I've found that those powers never help me for the crazy things I want to do |
| 21:15 | < McMartin> | Even F# I have trouble coming up with a reasonable use case. |
| 21:17 | < McMartin> | My idea of fun projects doesn't match much of the channel's. >_> |
| 21:18 | < catalyst> | :3 |
| 21:18 | < catalyst> | I am still remembering how to have fun coding |
| 21:23 | < McMartin> | If you find something that lights you up, I will be genuinely interested to learn what it is. |
| 21:23 | | * McMartin has been ripping apart old commercial programs from the late 1970s and trying to repurpose their code. |
| 21:28 | < catalyst> | It's that interesting? :o |
| 21:31 | < McMartin> | See aforementioned caveat that I am a crazy person :3 |
| 21:32 | < McMartin> | I found some fun stuff. I'm going to at least get a few articles of "this is how this worked, backed then, and that's kind of neat compared to how you'd get the same effect now" |
| 21:32 | < McMartin> | And a side of "here's the game logic, which is very simple but looks in practice way more clever than it is, and also, here are the gameplay side effects of it, you *utter, time-shifted bastard*" |
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| --- Log closed Sat Sep 17 00:00:57 2016 |