| --- Log opened Fri Jun 10 00:00:04 2016 |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Fanworks are weird |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | http://elite-for-emacs.org |
| 01:21 | < ToxicFrog> | wut |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Don't ask me, man, I just get sent the links, I don't write the text at the other end |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | symbol is reading Hans Christian Anderson stories and I just looked up Mouse, Bird, Sausage after being pointed at it by Indexing, so I'm kind of getting the weird from all directions today |
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| 01:39 | <@gnolam> | ToxicFrog: ... isn't that a Grimm story? |
| 01:39 | < ToxicFrog> | I think so, yeah |
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| 09:34 | < Emmy-atwerk> | Fucking finally. |
| 09:36 | < Emmy-atwerk> | It took me WAY too long to find out how to turn a hyperlink into an actual hyperlink variable. |
| 09:36 | < Emmy-atwerk> | so that i can actually just use dir(hyperlinkvalue.address) to verify the existence of a file |
| 09:36 | <@simon_> | Emmy-atwerk, what framework? |
| 09:36 | < Emmy-atwerk> | vba |
| 09:37 | < Emmy-atwerk> | in access, that is, but usually that makes a difference only in application and goals of the code. :P |
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| 11:15 | <@ion> | Business cards came out nicely; were done by the time I got to the shop and they tossed in about fourty extras which covers the difference of taxes nicely too - final cost is more like $0.20/ea than $0.25/ea |
| 11:25 | <@Reiv> | ? |
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| 11:28 | <@abudhabi> | ! |
| 12:02 | <@simon_> | ion, how do they look? |
| 12:09 | <@gnolam> | Raised lettering, pale nimbus, white? |
| 12:10 | <@abudhabi> | About business card sized. |
| 12:11 | <@TheWatcher> | A mix of heavy gothic script and enochian? |
| 12:19 | <@ion> | They're nice and basic like I wanted. Printing is nice and crisp, cardstock is uniformly cut well |
| 12:21 | <@ion> | They could look a lot nicer if I'd spent more than 5 minutes slapping together my details and a border |
| 12:21 | <@ion> | don't have time for that this week though |
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| 12:30 | < catadroid> | Horrible problem of the day: how to implement a range erase on an open addressed hash map when items that are erased could cause other items to be rehashed into the erase range |
| 12:35 | <@pjdelport> | catadroid: What's the semantics of the range erase, exactly? |
| 12:35 | <@pjdelport> | Are the keys ordered too? |
| 12:36 | <@pjdelport> | What exactly does it mean that items can be rehashed into the erase range? |
| 12:38 | <~Vornicus> | rehashed -- wait a second. So you've got objects, they depend on other objects to get their own hash, and those other objects could be in the map as well |
| 12:39 | <~Vornicus> | So then, by deleting the objects from the hash, they *also* go away in the other hashed objects, and that changes those objects' hash? |
| 12:42 | <@pjdelport> | Vornicus: Well, with open addressing, it's not the hash that changes, but the item's bucket can change depending on the other objects already in the table. |
| 12:43 | <~Vornicus> | hm. |
| 12:44 | <@pjdelport> | I'm not sure I understand how exactly the range stuff relates to this, though. |
| 12:44 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, looking at open addressing... can you hold off on the rehash until you're done doing the range erase? And why are you range erasing on the actual index in the hash, that seems odd? |
| 12:46 | <@pjdelport> | I'll wait for catadroid to explain or provide context :) |
| 12:51 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, this sounds like there's some serious wizardry happening here |
| 12:52 | < catadroid> | Keys are unordered - values are stored in an array rather than buckets |
| 12:53 | < catadroid> | So when you have a collision, you advance location until you find one that is empty |
| 12:53 | < catadroid> | Which means when you erase an item you need to rehash everything after it that potentially collided |
| 12:54 | < catadroid> | The semantics of a ranged erase are everything between iterators [i, j) gets erased |
| 12:55 | <~Vornicus> | Right. it feels like a bulk erase should just ignore the rehash step until after it's done. That way you don't delete anything you didn't see advancing from i to j when determining the erasure range. |
| 12:57 | < catadroid> | Yeah, that's what it does |
| 12:58 | < catadroid> | You need to be careful when your key advance function can take you several steps |
| 12:59 | < catadroid> | (so you need to rehash the chain from each index that's closer to the end of the range than the maximum first jump on collision) |
| 12:59 | < catadroid> | But it took me a while to convince myself that was correct |
| 13:00 | < catadroid> | And interesting to write tests for, since you basically have to create a degenerate hash function |
| 13:08 | <@abudhabi> | Is there some kind of rhyme or reason to how PEP docs are numbered? |
| 13:08 | <~Vornicus> | they're autoincrements, except that the 3000 series are proposed enhancements specifically for the 2->3 transition |
| 13:09 | <@abudhabi> | But I see low numbers refering to high numbers. |
| 13:09 | <@abudhabi> | Time travel? |
| 13:09 | <~Vornicus> | They get edited. |
| 13:09 | <@abudhabi> | I think I like my explanation better. :V |
| 14:39 | < catadroid> | Dammit brain, believe that I'm good at this |
| 15:25 | | * Vornicus believes catadroid is good at this! |
| 15:35 | | * TheWatcher starts trying to wrangle 47 tables into something he can at least start to draw up a diagram for |
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| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | Ugh |
| 22:33 | | * McMartin continues to do battle with API design |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | "Dammit brain, believe that I'm good at this" is definitely where I am here |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | ... except I don't yet have any objective evidence that I am, while catadroid does for her~ |
| 22:42 | <@TheWatcher> | Impostor Syndrome, it's a pain |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | Also, it's a hard problem! |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | I think I know what I want the API to look like, now, at least, but it's ugly and inconsistent with the rest of it |
| 22:42 | <&jerith> | API design is a very hard problem. |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | ... but that's consistent with the API requirements, so... |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | ... this leaves behind how to efficiently implement said API, but that's why you do design first, so that you have designed a house instead of a pile of bricks |
| 22:43 | <&jerith> | I'm less terrible at it than most of the people whose APIs I have to use, though. |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | I've also got a noted weak point here which is that I'm designing an API for use in a language and ecosystem I don't know that well |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | So I'm adding in "be familiar to people who know that ecosystem well", which in turn involves aggressively interviewing co-workers more familiar with that ecosystem than I am >.> |
| 22:45 | <&McMartin> | But even if I'm not good at it, I have to believe I am or I won't make progress <.< |
| 22:47 | <~Vornicus> | always the issue |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jun 11 00:00:20 2016 |