| --- Log opened Wed Apr 13 00:00:11 2016 |
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| 01:13 | | * Derakon eyes that serverfault thing. |
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| 04:01 | < starkruzr> | (I don't suppose anyone knows the answer to my previous question?) |
| 04:01 | < starkruzr> | There is some kind of THING one does to get irb to "talk" to your model |
| 04:02 | < starkruzr> | and I can't remember wtf it is. |
| 04:02 | < crystalclaw> | Sorry. I didn't get into ruby for rails; never messed with it |
| 04:05 | <~Vornicus> | I played with rails just long enough to know I should run the hell away |
| 04:06 | <&McMartin> | This is a language and problem domain I'm unfamiliar with |
| 04:14 | <~Vornicus> | This was also fully 10 years ago now. I have no idea how the system has changed in the meantime. |
| 04:18 | < crystalclaw> | I've (unfortunately) moved more to python, too, because python's libraries actually tend to work and not require knowledge of C, even though I like ruby better |
| 04:20 | <~Vornicus> | I've been a python guy since i started. |
| 04:20 | <~Vornicus> | ...15 years ago now. I'm almost an old hand. |
| 04:21 | < crystalclaw> | I pretty much got into actual python just last year. I still use ruby things that cause errors |
| 04:21 | <~Vornicus> | I got mad at ruby for making something really, really hard despite claims that this thing should not be hard, and the constant Insanely Great-ness |
| 04:21 | < crystalclaw> | and I miss case statements SO MUCH! |
| 04:21 | <~Vornicus> | I sometimes do but then I stop worrying and love the dictionary of functions. |
| 04:22 | < crystalclaw> | Yeah, ruby's definitely not perfect, but it has some design decisions I really like. |
| 04:22 | < crystalclaw> | Specifically: How variable scope is handled, how returning works. |
| 04:22 | <~Vornicus> | reverse operator overloads |
| 04:25 | <~Vornicus> | do like scope warts. don't like implicit returns. absolutely hate how it made my math shit impossible |
| 04:26 | < crystalclaw> | I started out with implicit returns, so I like it. Doesn't mean it's the best way to do things |
| 04:26 | < crystalclaw> | What sort of math stuff? |
| 04:26 | <~Vornicus> | I was implementing a (mathematical) vector type. |
| 04:26 | <~Vornicus> | It needs vector * number, number * vector, vector / number, but number / vector should explicitly *not* be defined. |
| 04:27 | <~Vornicus> | so vector * number and vector / number are easy enough, you just implement vector::* |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | But: in order to do number * vector, you have to monkey patch every numeric type. just doing it for the base class doesn't work, since everything overrides it. You can't coerce from (number, vector) to (vector, number) either, because non-commutative operators and specifically the non-defined-ness of number / vector make that Wrong. |
| 04:32 | < crystalclaw> | You couldn't just define custom operations for / in your custom vector, or am I missing something? (I'm rusty with ruby, it's been too long) |
| 04:32 | <~Vornicus> | Ruby doesn't have reverse operators. |
| 04:35 | <~Vornicus> | If I want to do this in python, I define vector.__radd__; in C++, I'd have vector operator/(numeric, vector), and if necessary I'll friend that in. Ruby can't do this: if I want to overload an operator I have to do it as a member function *on the first type* |
| 04:35 | < crystalclaw> | Oh, I think I see. So if you call number * vector, the number handles it, but the vector can't? I'm not advanced enough/haven't yet needed to have gotten to reverse operators... |
| 04:39 | <~Vornicus> | Right. Python, given number * vector, will try number.__mul__(vector), and that will fail in a particular way (notimplementederror) and then it goes vector.__rmul__(number); C++ looks at the types and goes "I know what I'm doing here"; lua tries number.__mul(number, vector) and then vector.__mul(number, vector) |
| 04:39 | < crystalclaw> | I can see why that is frustrating |
| 04:40 | < crystalclaw> | Not something I thought I'd ever run into, but now I'm annoyed at it |
| 04:40 | <~Vornicus> | but Ruby only looks at the first type, which means I have to monkey patch every single numeric type -- and there were at the time like half a dozen -- to make it work. |
| 04:41 | < [R]> | starkruzr: do yourself good and play with Ruby, but don't touch the Rails. |
| 04:41 | < [R]> | Rails is the PHPNuke of Ruby. |
| 04:41 | < [R]> | In terms of ability to produce the most horrible of security vulnerabilities. |
| 04:42 | < crystalclaw> | I never wanted to touch it because I didn't /want/ to build RoR webpages, I wanted to build small applications/automation scripts |
| 04:42 | <~Vornicus> | which goes up totally against the whole "don't repeat yourself" thing |
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| 23:18 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey, this is a book I've wanted to exist for a while. |
| 23:18 | <&McMartin> | https://mitpress.mit.edu/exploratory |
| 23:19 | <&McMartin> | I mean, not this book specifically, though I have in fact collaborated with Montfort on things before |
| 23:19 | <&McMartin> | But a book about programming as a humanistic endeavour |
| 23:26 | <~Vornicus> | oh cook |
| 23:26 | <~Vornicus> | cool* |
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| --- Log closed Wed Apr 13 23:57:08 2016 |
| --- Log opened Wed Apr 13 23:57:45 2016 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 14 00:00:37 2016 |