| --- Log opened Fri Aug 14 00:00:46 2015 |
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| 00:31 | <@Reiv> | [R]: Only with frequent reboots :P |
| 00:31 | <@Reiv> | oh, wait, you consider that te bo the targeted ideal |
| 00:31 | <@Reiv> | Yes, very much agree |
| 00:42 | <~Vornicus> | [R]: doing what in a CLI utility, and \G for what? |
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| 01:20 | <@Alek> | ehh. just because you grow up with CLI doesn't necessarily make you a wizard - people still differ. |
| 01:20 | <@Alek> | although I'll agree that schools need to start teaching computer skills earlier, more than just typing and oregon trail. |
| 01:20 | <@Alek> | earlier and more extensively. |
| 01:21 | <@Alek> | feel free to combine typing with math/english/history for extra learning, though. |
| 01:22 | <@Alek> | also, my PC/AT (or XT, I forget) had a sorta GUI. what was that again, DOSSHELL? |
| 01:22 | <@Alek> | not native, mind, but it came with the PC when I got it, and was pretty good. |
| 01:24 | <@Reiv> | Alek: Thing is, you and I and most of what we think of as our corner of the internet have warped perceptions of wizardry, and that's the problem |
| 01:24 | <@Reiv> | We think of TF and McMartin and their ilk as the wizards, able to write software from scratch and capable of all kinds of crazy stuff and concepts |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | I remember DOSSHELL |
| 01:25 | <@Reiv> | The problem is that to the *rest of the populace*, that isn't wizardry, that's outright Grand Magus. |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Alek: Right, my "trained from birth by a secretive ninja clan" thing was I was literally programming at the age of 5. |
| 01:25 | <@Reiv> | Running DOS without written incantations beside the computer was wizardry. |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Not *much* mind you |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | But I've been programming and reading for about the same amount of time. |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | (This actually translates to about 2 extra years of training as an adult~) |
| 01:28 | <@Alek> | McM: yey for you. |
| 01:28 | | * Alek is envious. |
| 01:28 | <@Reiv> | Likewise: My wife thought she wasn't all that qualified or intelligent until I physically pulled up the NZ Census stats and pointed out that she had made the top, IIRC, 3% of the population in terms of education |
| 01:29 | <@Reiv> | Trouble is, when you're at university you're *already* mingling with the top *25%* |
| 01:29 | <@Reiv> | So your baseline for 'normal' ends up skewed before you start measuring |
| 01:29 | <@Reiv> | et voila |
| 01:30 | | * Alek didn't get anything but school apples till he was... 12? give or take a year. then it was a TRS-80 Model 3. which wasn't much use when Win 3.11 was already taking over the world. |
| 01:30 | <@Alek> | an Apple ][c when I was about 15. the IBM when I was 16 or 17. and finally a windows machine when I was 18. |
| 01:31 | <&McMartin> | The TRS-80 is better than the ZX81 -_- |
| 01:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | I had a similar experience to McM, but some years later. |
| 01:32 | <@Alek> | oh, and. I was ignorant and ran a program 50-something off one of the disks that came with the TRS. (btw, it was before onboard clock batteries, so you had to set time and date every time you turned it on or cold booted.) |
| 01:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which means that these TRSes and Apples and suchlike are alien to me~ |
| 01:33 | <@Alek> | it... somehow permanently changed the hardware clock chip to 50 hertz instead of 60 hertz, so the clock ran fast from then on. forever. |
| 01:33 | <@Alek> | and there was no equivalent 60-hertz program to change it back. |
| 01:33 | <@Alek> | yeah, I'm confused as to how a machine with only RAM got a permanent change. |
| 01:35 | <&McMartin> | Blow up a fuse on purpose, maybe~ |
| 01:35 | <@Alek> | must be. :P |
| 01:36 | <@Alek> | that'd explain no way to change back, too. |
| 01:36 | <@Alek> | you'd think it would have had a warning. <_< |
| 01:37 | <@Alek> | when I finally had to throw it out (when we got the ][c), I pulled the chips and kept them. thought I might be able to plug them into the new machine. o_o |
| 01:37 | <@Alek> | years later, I stuck them into duct tape on my skin as a crappy "cyborg" costume for an English speech. |
| 01:38 | <&McMartin> | The ][c was surprisingly advanced for an 8-bit system |
| 01:38 | <@Alek> | it was! |
| 01:39 | <&McMartin> | Ironically, because Apple had an actual disk-based DOS system, I have far less experience working with them than Commodores or 8-bit console systems |
| 01:39 | <~Vornicus> | Wizardry: I grabbed a video off a client's partner's website to put it on the client's (we'd gotten permission but not the files to use on our own). "How on earth did you get this video?" |
| 01:39 | <&McMartin> | Because it's damn near impossible to get files produced by a modern system onto the emulated machine or disk image to run. |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | (inspect element, click link) |
| 01:51 | <@Reiv> | (not possible with a lot of modern video players, mind) |
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| 01:57 | <~Vornicus> | it was a video tag with non-stream sources |
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| 02:08 | <~Vornicus> | so I got lucky |
| 02:10 | <@Alek> | well, you DO live with Vash. |
| 02:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: that's what youtube-dl is for |
| 02:22 | <@celticminstrel> | youtube-dl? |
| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | A commandline tool for downloading YouTube videos for watching offline. |
| 02:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Sounds convenient. |
| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | I guess it also will pull other kinds of streaming video too? I dunno |
| 02:23 | <&McMartin> | I'm a fan of it, especially since sometimes YouTube forgets that not having Flash installed doesn't mean you can't still watch videos |
| 02:24 | <@celticminstrel> | It has an HTML5 player, doesn't it? |
| 02:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Though it does seem like it tends to use Flash anyway. |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, sometimes it forgets about its own HTML5 support IME |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | Which means youtube-dl Just Works |
| 02:30 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: I acknowledge that, but that is Special Software, not sourcecode wizardry |
| 02:31 | <@Reiv> | (That said, you specify 'commandline', so it still totally counts as wizardry~) |
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| 02:39 | < [R]> | <Vornicus> [R]: doing what in a CLI utility, and \G for what? <-- mysql's CLI utility. |
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| 02:49 | <~Vornicus> | oh. yeah no I usually use the workbench. |
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| 03:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: it supports a huge number of streaming video sites, many of them pornographic. |
| 03:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is basically the first thing I try whenever I want to turn "embedded video on website" into "video on hard drive" |
| 03:12 | <@Alek> | if you switch to HTML5 playes in YT, it doesn't try to use Flash in that browser any more, for me at least. |
| 03:12 | <@Alek> | in Chrome anyway, which is my experience. |
| 03:12 | <@Alek> | player. |
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| 04:21 | < [R]> | <Alek> if you switch to HTML5 playes in YT, it doesn't try to use Flash in that browser any more, for me at least. <-- It'll fallback to flash when it needs to (which is really obvious when you don't have flash) |
| 04:21 | < [R]> | It's also annoyingly common. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Aug 14 05:54:42 2015 |
| --- Log opened Fri Aug 14 06:03:34 2015 |
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| --- Log opened Fri Aug 14 14:32:53 2015 |
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| --- Log opened Fri Aug 14 14:51:48 2015 |
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| 15:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Go forth, my robot army! |
| 15:09 | < abudhabi> | SWING LOW, SWEET CHARRIOT! |
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| 18:45 | < sshine> | has anyone here used git svn? |
| 18:48 | < sshine> | I do a 'git svn clone --username <me> -s <url>/svn/Project/trunk trunk', it prints "Using higher level of URL: <url>/svn/Project/trunk => <url>/svn/Project", hangs for five minutes and exits. afterwards, the .git dir is almost completely empty, so no action. |
| 18:48 | < sshine> | (btw, this is cygwin) |
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| 19:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | sshine: I did a few years ago, but not since, so I'm really rust on it |
| 19:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | *really rusty |
| 19:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | My first instict would be to see if it has a '-v' or something you can use to get more information about what it's actually doing |
| 19:46 | < sshine> | ah, good idea! |
| 19:47 | < sshine> | apparently it's only a select few git svn commands that have -v |
| 19:47 | < sshine> | (dcommit, log, rebase) |
| 19:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | Boo |
| 19:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | I mean, I think what it's doing there is going up a level to get the entire repo, because 'trunk' in svn is eqv to 'master' in git |
| 19:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | And by default it downloads all branches and tags |
| 19:48 | < sshine> | I suspect it could be anything from broken SSL certificates to Perl on Cygwin acting unexpectedly. |
| 19:48 | < sshine> | yep |
| 19:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | But I have no idea why it then hangs for five minutes and then exits without doing anything |
| 19:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | What's "almost completely empty" here? Just the .git/config and nothing else? |
| 19:49 | < sshine> | ah, stupid stupid me! |
| 19:49 | < sshine> | I should just have tried without /trunk. now it's downloading like crazy. |
| 19:50 | < sshine> | my workplace is using SVN and I don't object to it. in the last two days I've been messing around with a new MVC project within this huge solution. I haven't wanted to commit anything, because I'm really messy and breaking stuff, and committing in SVN implies my co-workers will inherit this mess. |
| 19:50 | | * abudhabi tries to figure out how to go from scaling focused around a point and a static viewscreen to a viewscreen following what it was previously centered on. |
| 19:51 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 19:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | I do object to it, and that's a large part of why :) |
| 19:51 | < sshine> | so today my Visual Studio project completely broke and I can't track the differences my new project caused in my .csproj file. |
| 19:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can't commit until you have something you're ready to share, but anything you don't commit is at risk of obliteration next time you sync -- which is mandatory before you can commit. |
| 19:51 | < sshine> | my latest commit is from before I installed stuff. I desperately want local commits. |
| 19:51 | < sshine> | yeah. it's stupid. |
| 19:52 | < sshine> | and I can't stash stuff, so I have five copies of my SVN checkout ("local branches") that each take 10G of disk space :) |
| 19:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | D: |
| 19:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | At my last job we used p4 (which has many of the same problems as svn), and I used git-p4 heavily for that reason; my git-svn usage was at school. |
| 19:53 | < sshine> | ok. |
| 19:53 | < sshine> | I've used p4 at my last job, too. |
| 19:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Here we use something p4-based, but there's an officially supported git frontend for it that's much faster and more featureful than 'git p4'. |
| 19:55 | < sshine> | where's that? |
| 19:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Google. |
| 19:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | (by "officially supported" I mean "by the internal devops team", it's not an official git or p4 tool) |
| 19:56 | < sshine> | still pretty cool |
| 19:56 | < sshine> | I'd like internally supported tools. |
| 19:58 | < sshine> | haha. in the last ten minutes I'm up to revision 350. 13315 to go. |
| 20:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh dear. |
| 20:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | This may be a let-it-run-overnight thing. |
| 20:07 | < sshine> | yeah. I'll tinker with something else, then. |
| 20:20 | < sshine> | http://imgur.com/wW5hhTW - then, uh, what does it do? |
| 20:21 | < sshine> | maybe the OK/Cancel buttons are like student course evaluations: it'll make you feel good to air your opinions, but it won't change anything. >:) |
| 20:25 | < sshine> | my ETA so far is 3 hours. |
| 20:32 | < abudhabi> | Hm. Given point C (two coordinates: x and y), and scale S (floating point), how do I determine where the new C should be, when the S changes? The scaling works around C, either expanding or shrinking around it. I want to show the same place in the scaled model before and after the change of S. |
| 20:32 | < abudhabi> | I'm trying to wrap my head around it and failing. |
| 20:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi: aren't you missing a coordinate pair? You need point C (the "center" of the scaling effect), position P (the screen coordinates of C), and scaling factor S |
| 20:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | And you need to figure out how to change the origin point such that P remains the same as S changes |
| 20:46 | < abudhabi> | I see. I need to first figure out P, then, because I don't have it. |
| 20:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, if you don't already know where C is on the screen, you have no way of figuring out how to adjust things to keep it there. |
| 20:52 | | * ToxicFrog does some quick sketching |
| 20:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think it's more useful to use O (the origin point, the model coordinates of the upper left corner of the view) than P |
| 20:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which gives you Ox' = (Cx - Ox)/S + Ox, and similarly for Oy' |
| 20:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | ..or not, wait, shit |
| 20:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ox' = Cx - (Cx - Ox)/S |
| 21:01 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:08 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 21:08 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 21:44 | | Kindamoody|autojoin [Kindamoody@Nightstar-0lgkcs.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
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| 21:44 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody|autojoin] by ChanServ |
| 21:44 | | Kindamoody|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:45 | < sshine> | since it takes another several hours for 'git svn clone' to finish, I decided to track the size change of the repo across time so I can plot it later. |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | SCIENCE! |
| 21:50 | < sshine> | I'd like to make an animation like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTMC3g2Xy8c for my workplace. |
| 21:58 | < sshine> | (which my current logging doesn't allow) |
| 21:59 | | * abudhabi takes notes. |
| 22:10 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:34 | | gizmore [kvirc@Nightstar-tr3pb8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Sat Aug 15 00:00:03 2015 |