| --- Log opened Thu Nov 13 00:00:57 2014 |
| 00:23 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 00:23 | <@TheWatcher> | I note that, while it's certainly true that source control wasn't widely available, backup technologies were |
| 00:25 | <@TheWatcher> | And while yes, the fancier systems were expensive, call me silly but if a significant portion of my company's existence hinges on a ball of sourcecode, models, and images, I'm going to make damned sure they are backed up |
| 00:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Of course, all too many of them seem to have approached backups in the same way as first year undergrads... |
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| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: There is a difference between backups during development and backups after publication |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | The latter of which mostly seem to be stuffed in the attics of *entirely different companies* |
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| 04:06 | <&McMartin> | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/11/microsoft-open-sources-net -takes-it-to-linux-and-os-x/ |
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| 04:13 | < Luke_Rubcic> | comics 1$ each please check out my store http://www.ebay.com/cln/luke_rubcics_comics/comics/133704481010 |
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| 05:41 | < Harlow> | the way caches work are weird |
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| 08:45 | <@froztbyte> | ha? |
| 08:45 | <@froztbyte> | ha[tab]... |
| 08:51 | <@Julius> | Ha! |
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| 10:39 | | * Tarinaky always gets caught out by 1/2=0 in Python :/ |
| 10:40 | <@Azash> | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8596517 |
| 10:40 | <@Tarinaky> | I never remember to from future import __division__ >.< |
| 10:42 | | * TheWatcher ponders making a joke about python's antiquity being such that it has to import division from the future, finds his heart isn't really in it. |
| 10:42 | < Syka> | weeeell |
| 10:42 | < Syka> | future is a bit of a misnomer |
| 10:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Remember when Python was a NEW and EXCITING language. |
| 10:42 | <@Tarinaky> | And everyone really hated that it used tabs instead of END tokens... |
| 10:43 | < Syka> | now it's a boring, productive language |
| 10:43 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: Can't, really |
| 10:43 | <@Azash> | I only started programming in the early 2000s |
| 10:43 | < Syka> | i started programming in 2007 :( |
| 10:43 | < Syka> | ish |
| 10:44 | | * TheWatcher started programming somewhere around 1988 |
| 10:44 | < Syka> | i... was born in 93 |
| 10:44 | <@Tarinaky> | Wasn't python NEW and EXCITING in the early 200s? |
| 10:44 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher literally started programming around the time I was born |
| 10:44 | <@Tarinaky> | *2000s? |
| 10:44 | <@Azash> | This is depressing |
| 10:44 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean, sure the language had been a while. |
| 10:44 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: Exciting, maybe, if you had dubious tastes |
| 10:44 | <@Azash> | It certainly wasn't new |
| 10:44 | <@Tarinaky> | But there's a difference between the language actually existing and people actually using it. |
| 10:46 | <@Julius> | Hmm. Nearly everyone in the engineering section of the company is bearded. |
| 10:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I don't think it became actually interesting until the 2.0 release in 2000 |
| 10:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Julius: That usually indicates your comapany needs to hire more women. |
| 10:47 | <@Julius> | Yeah, because hiring practices need to discriminate on the basis of sex, rather than qualifications. |
| 10:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Experimental evidence would suggest they already discriminate on the basis of sex. |
| 10:48 | <@Julius> | FWIW, the women work in other sections. Like accounting. |
| 10:48 | <@Tarinaky> | If you don't have metrics to measure your hiring then you don't know who you're discriminating against. |
| 10:49 | <@Julius> | Probably for the best. |
| 10:50 | <@TheWatcher> | Azash: depressing? |
| 10:56 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: Realizing how much catching up I still have to do |
| 10:57 | <@Azash> | >> |
| 10:59 | <@Tarinaky> | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30014482 |
| 10:59 | <@Tarinaky> | D'AWWW |
| 11:01 | <@TheWatcher> | Azash: *shrug* there's always that, and besides, just because I've been around longer, doesn't necessarily imply I'm better. |
| 11:03 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: Well, considering I've been employed for less than a year.. :P |
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| 11:21 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: rofl at that link |
| 11:30 | <@froztbyte> | https://twitter.com/bcrypt/status/531584327650267137 -> https://twitter.com/andreasdotorg/status/531584558815531008 |
| 11:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Azash: In 10 years time the technologies will all be completely different anyway. Nothing to really catch up on. |
| 11:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, except process things. |
| 11:36 | <@TheWatcher> | And C~ |
| 11:37 | <@Tarinaky> | There's a new version of C, and outside of the trivial there're new compiler features to leverage. |
| 11:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Intrinsics etc... |
| 11:37 | <@TheWatcher> | Sure, but it's not completely different |
| 11:37 | <@Julius> | Meanwhile, in the sublevels of government buildings, COBOL devs scurry to and fro, applying sacred machine oil. |
| 11:38 | <@Tarinaky> | No. But the core of the C language, that won't change, is also really simple. |
| 11:38 | <@Tarinaky> | So it doesn't really invalidate my point. |
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| 11:55 | <@froztbyte> | hopefully C just fucks off by then |
| 11:55 | <@froztbyte> | if we're still fucking around with C like morons, we should all collectively be shot |
| 11:55 | <@froztbyte> | (in 10 years time, that is) |
| 11:57 | <@TheWatcher> | If we aren't still using c, or at least c++, in 10 years, I'll happily go out and buy a hat so I can eat it |
| 11:58 | <@TheWatcher> | It's right here in the logs now, so |
| 11:59 | <@Azash> | The only real downside to C is its somewhat painful string handling, IMO |
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| 12:00 | <@Julius> | Azash: This. |
| 12:01 | <@froztbyte> | eh. |
| 12:02 | <@Julius> | String handling in C is like demolitions. With all the wires unlabeled. And you're color-blind. |
| 12:03 | <@Tarinaky> | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29931995 |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | froztbyte: C is really useful for FFI though. |
| 12:04 | <@froztbyte> | no reason that can't be something else |
| 12:05 | <@Tarinaky> | C doesn't so much have string handling as it has memory handling. |
| 12:05 | <@froztbyte> | (and, in many cases, it is) |
| 12:05 | <@Julius> | froztbyte: Schelling point. |
| 12:05 | <@froztbyte> | Julius: also applies to Javascript, I'd say |
| 12:05 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah. |
| 12:05 | <@Julius> | If you make another thing to do C's job, you'll have people doing the job in C *and* in the new thing. |
| 12:05 | <@froztbyte> | terrible things gon' be terrible |
| 12:11 | <@Julius> | Is there a way to make the text of a HTML button wrap? |
| 12:14 | <@Julius> | NM, found it. |
| 12:15 | <@Tarinaky> | That said... |
| 12:15 | <@Tarinaky> | I think Autohell seems to be disappearing? |
| 12:15 | <@TheWatcher> | We can but hope |
| 12:15 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean, outside of legacy applications. |
| 12:18 | <@Tarinaky> | On an unrelated note... I need a web application for something, but IANA web developer. |
| 12:18 | <@Tarinaky> | About all I can manage is flat HTML. |
| 12:18 | <@Tarinaky> | My current partner /is/ so inclined, and suggested building it in ASP.NET... which I know nothing about. |
| 12:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, good news, nor can 90% of web developers~ |
| 12:19 | <@TheWatcher> | Eww asp |
| 12:20 | <@Julius> | You could try Java + Stripes. |
| 12:20 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm looking to replace my very creaky virtual tabletop software. The user should be able to move around PNG images on a grid and maybe roll some dice... however getting tabletop apps to work on other people's computers ends up taking a considerable amount of game time. |
| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | So I'd really like something that can be run on one machine, and then everyone else can connect using a web browser |
| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | Or something like that. |
| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | With zero-installation |
| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | It'll 'just work' |
| 12:21 | <@Julius> | Aren't there like a million web applications for just this purpose? |
| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | No. |
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| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | There's a couple of pay-for applications which have the problem that I've then got to put down $20 a head for licenses. |
| 12:21 | <@Tarinaky> | And I've still got to install it on the player's machine |
| 12:22 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is a hassle. |
| 12:22 | <@Julius> | Isn't roll20 for free? |
| 12:22 | <@Azash> | Yeah |
| 12:22 | <@Azash> | You can get some bonus features if you support their development but they're far from necessary |
| 12:23 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay, that's cool. |
| 12:23 | <@Azash> | Mainly a better line of sight system and the ability to write JS for your tools |
| 12:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, I'm glad I came to you for requirements analysis. |
| 12:27 | <@TheWatcher> | #code: so good it can solve your problems without you having to write anything~ |
| 12:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Does Roll20 allow you to add your own assets? |
| 12:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Or are you locked into their database? |
| 12:29 | <@Azash> | It does allow your own assets |
| 12:29 | <@Azash> | It also has a marketplace if you want to buy from other people |
| 12:29 | <@Azash> | I've done that myself due to not being very good with scene design |
| 12:29 | <@Tarinaky> | I thought Roll20 was just for sheets |
| 12:30 | <@Azash> | roll20 is primarily a virtual tabletop + chat + such |
| 12:32 | <@Tarinaky> | How do you edit the character sheets? |
| 12:42 | <@Tarinaky> | "To do so, you must be a Mentor-level subscriber." Oh |
| 12:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, that sucks |
| 12:43 | <@TheWatcher> | That strikes me as a rather fundamental thing you'd want to do for pretty much any game... |
| 12:44 | <@Julius> | Edit people's sheets as a GM? |
| 12:44 | <@Julius> | I've not needed to do such a thing, ever. |
| 12:45 | <@Julius> | Indeed. Why should I edit their sheets, if I can tell them to do it? |
| 12:45 | <@Tarinaky> | No, I mean edit the actual sheets. |
| 12:45 | <@Tarinaky> | You know. If you're using houserules |
| 12:46 | <@Julius> | Ah, you mean the templates? |
| 12:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Yes |
| 12:46 | <@Julius> | That doesn't sound like an essential function. You normally can't edit sheet templates if you use third-party sheet hosters. |
| 12:47 | <@Tarinaky> | There also doesn't seem to be a "Just let me enter damn text" character sheet template |
| 12:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Lame. |
| 12:48 | <@Julius> | Can't you just handle sheets separately? |
| 12:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah. |
| 12:48 | <@Tarinaky> | I can't see how to add assets though. |
| 12:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is a showstopper |
| 12:49 | <@Tarinaky> | But $10/mo for the privilage of being able to write flat HTML seems a bit wonky. |
| 12:52 | <@Azash> | Yay |
| 12:52 | <@Azash> | My first legacy browser incompatibility ticket |
| 12:52 | <@Azash> | It's like I'm living all the tropes |
| 12:52 | <@TheWatcher> | IE6? |
| 12:52 | <@Azash> | 8 |
| 12:52 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: The thing is |
| 12:52 | <@Tarinaky> | So. What's #code's recommendation wrt rapid Web Development frameworks these days? |
| 12:52 | <@Azash> | For our games we still use other sheets |
| 12:52 | <@TheWatcher> | Azash: tsk, must try harder ;) |
| 12:53 | <@Azash> | r20's sheets are great because they can interface with the game itself |
| 12:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: which language(s) do you know best? |
| 12:53 | <@Azash> | The problem is they are incredibly verbose |
| 12:53 | <@Azash> | And a bit unwieldy to have open while playing |
| 12:53 | <@Azash> | So I recommend not taking them into account until they've matured a bit |
| 12:53 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: Python, Ruby, C, C++. |
| 12:53 | <@Azash> | RoR |
| 12:54 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: forget about c or C++ unless you like pain |
| 12:54 | <@Tarinaky> | I also learned HTML+CSS when I was 10, so I can probably pick up that bow again if I have to |
| 12:55 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: I am aware, but it answered the question. |
| 12:55 | <@TheWatcher> | for python, you could try Django ot Pylons |
| 12:55 | <@TheWatcher> | *or |
| 12:56 | <@froztbyte> | hmm, haven't heard pylons suggested in a while |
| 12:56 | <@froztbyte> | Django is very ..... Django .. about how things are supposed to be done |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, wait |
| 12:56 | <@froztbyte> | and if you don't Django those things the Django way, you're in for a painful time |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Pyramid is its sucessor, I always forget |
| 12:56 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh and Java, I can do Java. |
| 12:56 | <@froztbyte> | outside of that, Flask is a recent option |
| 12:57 | <@Julius> | Pylons? Just how many web frameworks are puns on "Struts"? |
| 12:57 | <@froztbyte> | and for the kind of thing you sound like you want to build, it might be fine |
| 12:57 | <@Julius> | Tarinaky: Stripes? |
| 12:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: I do note a modulo here: you'll be constrained by your hosting |
| 12:58 | <@TheWatcher> | If you don't have full control over that, expect to be forced along a specific path |
| 12:58 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: Plan is to have a Client-Server that the GM runs. |
| 12:58 | <@Tarinaky> | On a computer. |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | eh |
| 12:59 | <@froztbyte> | what kind of environment(s) are you planning for? |
| 12:59 | <@Tarinaky> | froztbyte: What do you mean by environment? |
| 12:59 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: so you mean the GM runs a web stack on his own machine, hands out IP to connect to? |
| 12:59 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: Yes. |
| 13:00 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: It's easy to add assets |
| 13:00 | <@Azash> | There's an art tab |
| 13:00 | <@Azash> | You can upload your own images there |
| 13:00 | <@Azash> | Everyone can upload tokens for their characters |
| 13:00 | <@Azash> | There's a sound playback feature that uses soundcloud |
| 13:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Azash: I'll try it out for my next IRL campaign: although I'm worried that "everyone make a roll20 account" will eat into the run-time of the game. |
| 13:01 | <@Julius> | Tarinaky: Is that supposed to be LAN or over the interwebs? |
| 13:01 | <@Azash> | That's easy |
| 13:01 | <@Azash> | Tell people to do that beforehand |
| 13:01 | <@Julius> | Azash: And nobody will. |
| 13:01 | <@Azash> | sux2bdem |
| 13:01 | <@Julius> | Yes. |
| 13:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Julius: Both. |
| 13:02 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: If you want I can give you a quick tour at some point |
| 13:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay. |
| 13:02 | <@Julius> | LAN is easy. But I predict you'll have quite a bit of work setting it up to work reliably over the internet. |
| 13:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah but we already deal with NAT issues for the current program |
| 13:02 | <@Tarinaky> | So that's nothing new. |
| 13:03 | <@Azash> | Own a box somewhere, set up a static-IP tunnel |
| 13:03 | <@Azash> | :P |
| 13:03 | <@Azash> | rpg.londongardeningsociety.co.uk |
| 13:03 | <@Tarinaky> | One of the many solutions I have in my toolbox. |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I only want it to be a webapp so I don't have to troubleshoot 4 people's laptops |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | As I'm working under the false delusion that a webpage will somehow 'just work' |
| 13:04 | <@Julius> | Do they all own Macs? |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | No. |
| 13:05 | <@Julius> | Then you're going to have browser compatibility problems, probably. |
| 13:05 | <@Tarinaky> | How do I handle user-IO in a 'rich' web app? Mouse Events and stuff. |
| 13:05 | <@froztbyte> | like owning macs is a solution to that ;p |
| 13:05 | <@Tarinaky> | i.e. so people can drag an image across a screen. |
| 13:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Is that all going to be client-side Javascript? |
| 13:06 | <@froztbyte> | javascript usually |
| 13:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Joy. |
| 13:06 | <@froztbyte> | there might be some canvas stuff, but I dunno |
| 13:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Canvas stuff? |
| 13:06 | <@Julius> | froztbyte: At least then they'll be using the same brand computer with the same brand browser, in all likelihood. |
| 13:06 | <@Azash> | froztbyte: It's easy |
| 13:06 | <@Azash> | Supply your players with Windows 7 virtualbox images |
| 13:06 | <@Azash> | >> |
| 13:06 | <@froztbyte> | Julius: "in all likelihood" is utter bullshit |
| 13:06 | <@Julius> | And if they are using something else on it, that means they're Advanced Users who can figure out problems themselves. |
| 13:07 | <@Julius> | froztbyte: Does Apple ship with something other than Safari on it? |
| 13:07 | <@froztbyte> | no, that's just presumptuous of you |
| 13:07 | <@froztbyte> | I work in an office with about 30 people, all on Macs, and there's barely anyone using Safari |
| 13:07 | <@Tarinaky> | I've had one too many game sessions where the "We'll use a virtual tabletop because between us we own more laptops than actual tables" has turned into "Lets all crowd around my 10" Dell Laptop" |
| 13:07 | <@Azash> | I don't know if you can expect to reach r20's level of usefulness very quickly though (I'm not saying don't do it, as it's a fantastic hobby project) |
| 13:07 | <@froztbyte> | it's typically Chrome/Fx, sometimes other shit |
| 13:07 | <@Azash> | We're talking about a bunch of web devs who have been working on it for years, part time then full time |
| 13:07 | <@Julius> | froztbyte: Interesting. I have the opposite experience. Nobody bothers to install anything, they just use what's there. |
| 13:08 | <@Tarinaky> | Azash: I don't need or want to do half of what R20 does |
| 13:08 | <@Tarinaky> | I just want to do One Thing Well |
| 13:08 | <@froztbyte> | Julius: I know *exactly* two people who use Safari |
| 13:08 | <@froztbyte> | Julius: of a sample set of about 80~90 people that I've seen doing computer things |
| 13:09 | <@froztbyte> | (all Macs) |
| 13:10 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: Then scale it down to six months for five devs :P |
| 13:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Azash: Sounds fair. |
| 13:10 | <@Julius> | froztbyte: Very well. |
| 13:10 | <@Tarinaky> | I was thinking closer to 6-man-months part time. |
| 13:10 | <@froztbyte> | Julius: like, I'm actually surprised to hear that that many people use it as-is |
| 13:11 | <@froztbyte> | Julius: where are you based? |
| 13:11 | <@Julius> | Norway. Macs are extremely popular here. |
| 13:11 | <@Tarinaky> | Idly, does the <script></script> tag in HTML default to Javascript now? |
| 13:12 | | * Tarinaky is looking at an HTML5 tutorial and doesn't really understand what's happened since 1999 |
| 13:12 | <@Azash> | I think "never presume" is a fair bit of advice for web dev |
| 13:12 | <@Azash> | Also Tarinaky before you start, do sit down and write down what exactly your software is meant to do |
| 13:12 | <@Azash> | Then start considering doing |
| 13:12 | <@Azash> | Organic lifeforms are only acceptable outside of your hard drive |
| 13:14 | <@Tarinaky> | The GM should be able to launch the server on his machine, specifying a session or save file. The program will automatically index assets from a location that is part of the server's installation. Clients (including the GM) then connect to the server with a web browser. |
| 13:14 | <@Tarinaky> | The server serves up a simple tabletop with a zoomable, draggable, 'whiteboard' overlaid with a grid pattern at regular intervals. |
| 13:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Clients can drag indexed assets onto the whiteboard, which can then have an optional name and zero or more simple key-value properties assigned to them which will be overlaid over the graphic if they exist. |
| 13:16 | <@Tarinaky> | There should also be some simple draw tools: Freehand, Vector Text, Straight line, Rectangle and some means of specifying pen colour |
| 13:17 | <@Julius> | How about circles? |
| 13:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Don't need them. |
| 13:17 | <@Julius> | How are you going to do explosions radii? |
| 13:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh, there also needs to be an eraser and a measuring tape. |
| 13:18 | <@Tarinaky> | Julius: Just use a measuring tape. |
| 13:18 | <@Tarinaky> | Or add an explosion asset to the index. |
| 13:19 | < Xon> | Tarinaky is looking at an HTML5 tutorial and doesn't really understand what's happened since 1999 |
| 13:19 | < Xon> | HTML5 is like HTML4 with consistant tag closing styles :v |
| 13:19 | < Xon> | and this unfathermable CSS soup poured on top |
| 13:19 | < Xon> | unfathomable* |
| 13:20 | <@Tarinaky> | If I use webGL I can get asset rotation and scaling 'for free', but I'm not sure what this imnplies for compatability. |
| 13:21 | <@Tarinaky> | There should probably be a password specified by the host that can be handed out to the players by any other medium. |
| 13:21 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky: http://learn.shayhowe.com/html-css/ |
| 13:22 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah, I know CSS. |
| 13:22 | <@froztbyte> | recommended to me as a fairly updated intro for modern webdev |
| 13:22 | <@froztbyte> | at least the browser side of it |
| 13:22 | <@Tarinaky> | I used to use XML+CSS until I discovered TeX |
| 13:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Thanks for the help, I should get back to my dayjob now though ;) |
| 14:36 | <@iospace> | ok, time for io to rant a little |
| 14:36 | <@iospace> | why the /fuck/ are we more worried about the government seeing our data than some kid |
| 14:37 | | * TheWatcher ...s, suspects he's missed something |
| 14:37 | <@iospace> | I'd be more worried about some person on 4chan figuring out my personal info than the government, because fuck, the government isn't going to go out and use my credit cards to buy 9001 pizza |
| 14:37 | <@iospace> | TheWatcher: it's just been brewing in my head for a while |
| 14:38 | <@iospace> | mostly because these chucklefucks want "privacy from the NSA" |
| 14:38 | <@iospace> | The NSA isn't the big concern here, it's non-governmental orgs that are to me |
| 14:41 | <@iospace> | yes, you can argue the government will then track your credit card purchases, but they have other methods of doing that than "intercepting someone's internet transmission with the card number on it" |
| 14:44 | <@Tarinaky> | iospace: Because if a kid grabs your credit cards and orders 9000 pizzas you have legal redress through the courts. |
| 14:44 | <@iospace> | that's one point, but I'd still be more worried about them than the government |
| 14:44 | <@Tarinaky> | If the government grabs your credit cards, freezes your assets or otherwise makes your life difficult... It's going to be a lot harder to obtain legal redress through the courts. |
| 14:44 | <@Tarinaky> | Also I don't now how to spell redress. |
| 14:45 | <@iospace> | heh |
| 14:45 | <@Tarinaky> | 'It depends' |
| 14:46 | <@iospace> | yes, but I'm also annoyed at the gov being made out to be this big boogyman when there's non-gov people who are just as bad if not worse |
| 14:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Why is this an either/or? I'd be more worried about /any/ of them |
| 14:46 | <@Tarinaky> | If McCarthy-ist America had access to Facebook and Grindr |
| 14:46 | <@iospace> | TheWatcher: the problem is the media likes to harp on "protection from teh NSA" |
| 14:46 | <@Tarinaky> | *McCarthy-ist era |
| 14:47 | <@Tarinaky> | And that was a period of history that really wasn't that long ago. |
| 14:47 | <@TheWatcher> | If I actually could bring myself to be worried, given that online security is a fucking joke from end to end anyway |
| 14:47 | <@iospace> | heh, it is |
| 14:47 | <@iospace> | given what |
| 14:47 | <@iospace> | all the security protocols got breached this year? |
| 14:47 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-g1asbp.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 14:47 | | mode/#code [+o thalass] by ChanServ |
| 14:47 | <@Tarinaky> | On the bright side, I don't think anyone published a major security flaw in telnet this year. |
| 14:48 | <@Tarinaky> | (joke) |
| 14:48 | <@iospace> | :V |
| 14:50 | <@Tarinaky> | But yeah. There're several states in the current political climate who can and do use social media to persecute minorities. |
| 14:50 | <@Tarinaky> | And you don't have to go very far back in time to find an America that would have done the same thing had it existed now. |
| 14:51 | <@iospace> | Tarinaky: implies it's /stopped/ happening |
| 14:51 | <@iospace> | in the US anyway |
| 14:51 | <@Tarinaky> | And that's before you get out your tinfoil hat. |
| 14:52 | <@Tarinaky> | iospace: I don't know enough about things to know exactly what the US government is doing with my data right now. |
| 14:53 | <@iospace> | Tarinaky: I was implying that social media is still used to persecute minorities |
| 14:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Hopefully the government doesn't though... |
| 14:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Not that we'd have any way of knowing until 50+ years later. |
| 14:54 | <@iospace> | the government does not |
| 14:54 | <@iospace> | to my knowledge |
| 14:54 | <@iospace> | /members/ on the other hand |
| 14:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Still. Using 'the government' as a synonym for the US Government is an extremely US-centric way of thinking ;) |
| 14:58 | <@Tarinaky> | If the US government can spy on its citizens there's not really anything to stop Azerbeijan |
| 14:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Or Egypt |
| 14:58 | <@iospace> | well yes, but I'm also reading US centric articles and most of them have the NSA set up as the boogyman |
| 14:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Well there's a need for that kind of boogyman imo |
| 14:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean, you don't even know where Azerbeijan is right? :P |
| 14:59 | <@Tarinaky> | (and I'm not sure if I can spell it right) |
| 14:59 | <@TheWatcher> | (Azerbaijan) |
| 15:00 | <@TheWatcher> | (you got pretty close) |
| 15:00 | <@Tarinaky> | (I'm sure it's a transliteration anyway) |
| 15:00 | <@iospace> | i know of it, don't know exactly /where/ |
| 15:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Somewhere between Arzotska and Republia :V |
| 15:02 | <@TheWatcher> | Its in that bit getween the black sea and the caspian, between iran and russia, east of turkey |
| 15:02 | <@TheWatcher> | *between |
| 15:04 | <@Tarinaky> | All I know is they won Eurovision once. |
| 15:06 | <@Tarinaky> | But even using them as a boogyman is just that: we don't actually know who the threat is. |
| 15:07 | <@Tarinaky> | And the kinds of people who collect the kinds of facts needed to make educated guesses about who the threats are is going to be under a National Security gag |
| 15:07 | <@Tarinaky> | So the NSA is as good a boogyman as any. |
| 15:08 | <@Tarinaky> | It approximates the kinds of resources we're talking about in a worst case, certainly. |
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| 17:38 | | * Julius sighs. |
| 17:40 | <@iospace> | I didn't do it |
| 17:41 | <@Julius> | Apparently different versions of Excel interpret "word wrap text in cell, the cell is of specific height so don't fuck with it". |
| 17:41 | <@Julius> | Mine shows the first part of the text, my coworker's Excel shows the last part of the text. |
| 17:41 | <@Julius> | +differently |
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| 19:48 | <@Alek> | it may also have to do with justification of the cell |
| 19:51 | <@Julius> | It shouldn't. The justification shouldn't have changed, in any case. |
| 20:07 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
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| 20:55 | | Luke_Rubcic [ruby99@Nightstar-16jsvc.sub-72-104-183.myvzw.com] has joined #code |
| 20:55 | < Luke_Rubcic> | im selling comics 1$ each please check out my store http://www.ebay.com/cln/luke_rubcics_comics/comics/133704481010 |
| 20:55 | <@Tamber> | >:| |
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| 20:57 | < gizmore> | err well... it was not really spam, imo |
| 20:58 | < gizmore> | how else are you going to show your comic to cool people? |
| 20:59 | <@Tamber> | If it's just join, throw link, leave; it's spam, IMO. |
| 20:59 | <@Tamber> | Y'know, not even a hello� |
| 21:00 | < gizmore> | good point, i assume he did some code hackery to automatize it |
| 21:00 | < gizmore> | which is adorable nice, if his story is true |
| 21:00 | < gizmore> | not that i would click the link, but still i think it was not really spam :) |
| 21:01 | < gizmore> | but it´s ok that our opinion on this differs... i got here as kinda "advertiser" too |
| 21:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | In what universe is that not spam? |
| 21:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is unsolicited push advertising, that is the definition of spam. |
| 21:02 | < gizmore> | he solicited by me by automation of a chatbot |
| 21:02 | < gizmore> | *with me |
| 21:02 | < gizmore> | although i will never know him, it´s adorable to me |
| 21:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | The fact that it was automated spam rather than hand-crafted artisanal spam does not make it not spam. |
| 21:04 | < gizmore> | it is the combination of us as targets, the topic "selfmade comic $1" and using a bot, maybe ruby |
| 21:05 | < gizmore> | i agree it´s spam for probably all of you |
| 21:06 | < gizmore> | anyway... what´s new? |
| 21:08 | | * gizmore wonders if it´s a good point to mention that his ruby bot is learning twitter |
| 21:08 | < gizmore> | *good time |
| 21:08 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:09 | | * McMartin got his Atari 2600 dev system up and running. |
| 21:09 | < gizmore> | woot |
| 21:10 | < gizmore> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQE5V8QCx9w (Amiga500 DungeonMaster Cracktro: WorldOfWonders |
| 21:21 | | Vorntastic [Vorn@Nightstar-k70f1n.ct.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 21:37 | < Vorntastic> | is building a thing with posts, likes, and comments actually this easy or am I getting good at this? |
| 21:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Vorn: probably the latter |
| 21:39 | < gizmore> | in i386 asm? |
| 21:39 | < gizmore> | or did you manage to install wordpress? |
| 21:39 | < Vorntastic> | No, php and js. |
| 21:39 | < Vorntastic> | (No wp) |
| 21:39 | < gizmore> | url or it did not happen |
| 21:40 | < gizmore> | i have built something like that when i was young (28) |
| 21:40 | < Vorntastic> | Internal only at the moment, or I would. |
| 21:40 | < gizmore> | took me a few months (dev the CMS etc) |
| 21:40 | <@TheWatcher> | the stackexchange clone I wrote a couple of years ago was about 4k lines or perl, plus about 1k of javascript, but it was missing badges - that was asupposed to be handled by another system that never got made |
| 21:41 | < gizmore> | i can write a full cms in php, in one line |
| 21:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh? |
| 21:41 | < gizmore> | wanna see it? |
| 21:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Sure |
| 21:42 | < gizmore> | <?php eval($_REQUEST('code'); |
| 21:42 | < gizmore> | typo |
| 21:42 | < gizmore> | the problem is defining the "code" stuff |
| 21:42 | | * TheWatcher backs away slowly |
| 21:42 | < gizmore> | ;) |
| 21:43 | < gizmore> | *heheheh* |
| 21:43 | < gizmore> | the inital request is a bit large, admit |
| 21:43 | < gizmore> | we call that: "The landing page" |
| 21:44 | < gizmore> | no problem when you host the links with "pingfs" |
| 21:45 | < Vorntastic> | You are a bad person. |
| 21:45 | < gizmore> | because�? |
| 21:46 | < gizmore> | wanna see something weird? |
| 21:59 | <@froztbyte> | gizmore: roflroflrofl |
| 21:59 | < gizmore> | ;) |
| 22:00 | < gizmore> | always nice to amuse people |
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| --- Log closed Fri Nov 14 00:00:13 2014 |