| --- Log opened Fri Sep 26 00:00:49 2014 |
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| 02:44 | <@macdjord|nap> | froztbyte: Sure. WHat's the topic? |
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| 04:57 | | * McMartin is introduced to http://istheinternetonfire.com/ |
| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | man |
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| 06:52 | | * Alek boggles at McM's link. |
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| 07:12 | < Harlow> | question about recursion, when a function is calling itself, something like Fibonacci where it has to compute n-2 + n-1 as a return, does the stack have both of those functions on there at the same time or does the program go down into 1 complete and then bring the value to be added to the other function when it returns? |
| 07:13 | <@macdjord> | Harlow: Only one is on the stack at a time. |
| 07:14 | < Harlow> | so the return value is put in a register that goes back to the previous item on the stack computes that then returns in the same fashion? |
| 07:23 | <@macdjord> | Um, okay. |
| 07:23 | <@macdjord> | unsigned int fib(unsigned int n) {if (n<2) {return n;} else {return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2);}} |
| 07:24 | <@macdjord> | Execution reaches the second return statement. |
| 07:24 | <@macdjord> | It calculated n-1, then makes the recursive call to fib(), passing that value, on a new stack frame. |
| 07:25 | <@macdjord> | When the recursive call is done it returns its result. The first call stores that result, calculates n-2, and makes the second recursive call. |
| 07:26 | <@macdjord> | When the second recursive call is done, it also returns its result. The first call takes those two results, adds them together, and returns. |
| 07:26 | <@macdjord> | The maximum stack frame depth will be O(n), but the total number of recursive calls will be O(n^2). |
| 07:31 | <@Azash> | I always thought it was neat that the naive solution supposedly also has the time complexity of fib(n) |
| 07:31 | <@froztbyte> | macdjord: it'll be making https://elegua.za.net/~froztbyte/logcabin_presentation/ more of a tech talk |
| 07:34 | <@macdjord> | froztbyte: So its a... log... summarizer? |
| 07:34 | <@froztbyte> | hmmm |
| 07:34 | <@froztbyte> | well, like |
| 07:35 | <@froztbyte> | it's a couple of steps above what you get out of awstats/webalizer/etc |
| 07:35 | <@macdjord> | I've never used any of those. |
| 07:35 | <@froztbyte> | they're pretty terrible, so don't |
| 07:35 | <@froztbyte> | :D |
| 07:36 | <@froztbyte> | (seriously, I've had awstats OOM some machines because I gave it "big" logs) |
| 07:36 | <@froztbyte> | (turns out that it creates an in-memory hash while parsing things, so if you have enough things..) |
| 07:37 | <@macdjord> | froztbyte: As in 'I have no idea what those are (beyond what I can guess from the names) so comparing to them is Uninformative'. |
| 07:37 | <@froztbyte> | oh |
| 07:37 | <@froztbyte> | they're webserver (usually) log summarizers |
| 07:37 | <@froztbyte> | would run nightly on cron, parse your logs, and do various stats-y things |
| 07:37 | <@macdjord> | Right, guess as much. |
| 07:37 | <@froztbyte> | message size histogram, etc |
| 07:38 | <@froztbyte> | so, with this stack |
| 07:38 | <@froztbyte> | I get to ship all my logs to a central point in realtime (about 2~3s delay sometimes) |
| 07:39 | <@froztbyte> | and I can search on 6 months of data in a few seconds |
| 07:39 | <@froztbyte> | so I can, for instance, trace a cascade failure caused by $x in a couple of minutes |
| 07:39 | <@froztbyte> | (and have :D) |
| 07:40 | <@froztbyte> | on one of our platforms we're doing a realtime breakdown of top UAs on the platform, top content, etc |
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| 07:43 | <@macdjord> | Neat. |
| 07:58 | <@froztbyte> | quite |
| 07:59 | < Harlow> | is anyone familiar enough with asm to explain what in St moses is going on in line 14 of this? http://pastebin.com/8GzaYfe8 |
| 08:01 | <@froztbyte> | movl -4(%ebp, %edx, 4), %eax # Full example: load *(ebp - 4 + (edx * 4)) into eax |
| 08:02 | <@froztbyte> | https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/X86_Assembly/GAS_Syntax#Address_operand_syntax |
| 08:04 | < Harlow> | so its my (A ptr+ 4*eax) into edx |
| 08:25 | < Harlow> | froztbyte does it look like I'm on the right track? http://pastebin.com/6HnuHwmi i mean if its finding the spot that the values lie on like i describe on line 14? |
| 08:26 | < Harlow> | or is 4 built into it knowing that thats sizeof int at 32 bits :/ |
| 08:31 | < Harlow> | meh, well I'm going to leave it at that for now its seriously time to get some rest. ttyl thanks for the point in the right direction though. |
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| 08:31 | <&McMartin> | Assembler doesn't know what your puny "int"s are. |
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| 09:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Boolean question: Is there such thing as a 'Conditional Not'? |
| 09:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I guess thinking about it, that'd be !A && B || A && !B ? |
| 10:05 | < [R]> | What do you mean? |
| 10:06 | | * [R] breaks out the truth tables |
| 10:08 | <@Tarinaky> | [R]: A not gate which is turned on/off by a second control bit. |
| 10:09 | <@Tarinaky> | There's a Quantum logic gate called a CNOT which is used to create entanglement between two independent qubits. |
| 10:09 | < [R]> | According to my truth table, that can be simplified to: !!A ^ !!B |
| 10:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Err... what's the associativity on those '!'? |
| 10:10 | < [R]> | (Double bang is to force the value to be 0 or 1 |
| 10:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Why do you need to force the value to be 0 or 1? |
| 10:10 | <@Tarinaky> | It's Boolean algebra? |
| 10:10 | < [R]> | Because there's no logical xor |
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| 10:11 | <@Tarinaky> | What? |
| 10:11 | <@Tarinaky> | Wait: are you doing a particular programming language? |
| 10:11 | < [R]> | ^ is bitwise |
| 10:11 | <@Tarinaky> | Because I'm just talking about Boolean Algebra. |
| 10:11 | <@Tarinaky> | On paper. |
| 10:11 | <@Tarinaky> | With pens. |
| 10:12 | < [R]> | Oh |
| 10:12 | < [R]> | Then the !! are pointless |
| 10:12 | <@Azash> | [R]: But there is |
| 10:12 | <@Azash> | (+) |
| 10:12 | < [R]> | Azash? |
| 10:12 | <@Tarinaky> | So a Conditional Not is just an XOR? |
| 10:12 | <@Azash> | The XOR operator |
| 10:12 | <@Azash> | It's a circle filled by a plus |
| 10:13 | < [R]> | That's a syntax error in most languages methinks |
| 10:13 | <@Tarinaky> | The C++ standard places no requirements against writing your code in crayon. |
| 10:14 | <@Tarinaky> | *stack overflow classic here* |
| 10:14 | <@Azash> | [R]: Sure but Tari seems to be talking general logic, not programming |
| 10:16 | < [R]> | I was assuming it was related to C++ |
| 10:16 | < [R]> | Or some other language |
| 10:18 | | * Tarinaky glares at her code. |
| 10:18 | < [R]> | https://gist.github.com/RobinStamer/753e19310fee6104b4e8 |
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| 11:41 | | * Tarinaky glares |
| 11:41 | <@Tarinaky> | wtf. |
| 11:41 | <@Tarinaky> | For some reason when I pass in /one/ number this produces some weird degenerative case. |
| 11:46 | <@RchrdB> | fuzz testers hate her |
| 11:47 | <@RchrdB> | find bugs instantly! with this ONE weird number, discovered by a local Tarinaky! |
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| 11:50 | <@Tarinaky> | And now all the noise sounds wrong. |
| 11:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Eugh. |
| 11:52 | <@Tarinaky> | W.T.F. |
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| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | God I hate reading people's MATLAB code. |
| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | What did I do to get put in the special hell where people have to read scientist's code. |
| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | :( |
| 15:38 | <@RchrdB> | Science? |
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| 15:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: be thankful it isn't java or perl written by a biologist |
| 15:44 | | * TheWatcher shudders |
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| 15:51 | < simon_> | I wonder how hard it is to take a string and a replacement regex (s/foo/bar/), apply it and determine if there exists a shorter, equivalent regex replacement. or rather, a pair of strings and determine the shortest regex replacement. |
| 15:52 | < simon_> | s/.$/ between them./ |
| 15:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Surely the answer is always s/^Literals that match position-wise*More literals$/Literals that match position-wise STUFF NOT IN ORIGINAL More literals/ |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Or at least of that form. |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Possibly apply recursion. |
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| 15:56 | <@RchrdB> | simon_, I bet there are a bunch of ways to encode an NP-hard problem in that |
| 15:57 | <@Tarinaky> | My ears hurt :( |
| 16:03 | < simon_> | well, since we're dealing with regular languages, I thought maybe not. |
| 16:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Question... |
| 16:10 | <@Tarinaky> | *Math Question |
| 16:10 | <@RchrdB> | I think both possibilities are plausible. |
| 16:10 | <@Tarinaky> | If I pick any two consecutive number: |
| 16:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Are they guarneteed to be /relatively/ prime? |
| 16:11 | <@Tarinaky> | i.e. will they have a common factor other than 1. |
| 16:11 | < EvilDarkLord> | They will not. |
| 16:11 | < EvilDarkLord> | If they did, you would obtain one from the other by adding a number other than 1. |
| 16:12 | < EvilDarkLord> | But they are consecutive, so this does not work. |
| 16:25 | <@Azash> | simon_: Generating it for a specific string and modified string shouldn't be too hard |
| 16:25 | <@Azash> | If you want a general-purpose "compactor", that's harder |
| 16:26 | <@Azash> | simon_: From our department, https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/en/story/70787/study-teach-and-do-what-fun |
| 16:26 | <@Azash> | You might consider waiting for his thesis to be done or contacting him yourself if it's important |
| 16:29 | <@Azash> | Oh wait that was his master's |
| 16:29 | <@Azash> | If you want I can probably get it for you |
| 17:08 | < simon_> | Azash, hah, cool. |
| 17:09 | < simon_> | Azash, there's a PhD at my dept. who works on regular expressions, too. |
| 17:11 | <@Tamber> | <virtadpt> I just threw up a little in the back of my mouth. https://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/wsdatap/v6r0m0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.dp. xm.doc%2Fjson_jsonx.html |
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| 17:46 | < simon_> | hahaha |
| 17:46 | < simon_> | I think they misunderstood something. |
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| 19:21 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/MrAlanCooper/status/513767772443000832/photo/1 |
| 19:29 | <@froztbyte> | Hahahhaha |
| 19:32 | <@gnolam> | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gstreamer/tree/plugins/elements/gstfilesrc .c?id=RELEASE-0_10_22#n798 |
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| 20:01 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: this is a project that implemented their own object model in C |
| 20:01 | <@froztbyte> | That's the entirety of my comment, though. |
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| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: GObject is a thing. It's a reason I kind of steer clear of that set of technologies when I can |
| 20:49 | <@froztbyte> | Indeed |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | I did some gst stuff earlier this year, and was very confused about GObjext |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | GObject* |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | So I read the implementation |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | Not my best decision |
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| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | There's also a fake dialect of C# that compiles to it, which I find more hilarious than I should given that this is a completely reasonable thing to do when confronted with it. |
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| 21:46 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: tell me more |
| 21:46 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: The project/language is called "Vala". |
| 21:46 | <@froztbyte> | oh, that |
| 21:46 | <&McMartin> | You have now been told more. |
| 21:46 | <@froztbyte> | never paid it terribly much attention |
| 21:46 | | * McMartin bows formally, doffs top hat. |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | but things clicked |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: the thing that I think struck out most for me was how hilariously the intersection between "vtable map/override hacks" and "C member calls" things got |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: the veneer is thin. |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | yet there's this whole gigantic ecosystem built up around it |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | (to the point where said ecosystem is actually pretty damn useful) |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | (but...*damn*.) |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | (Seriously, virtual calls are a super-nice way to control use of function pointers) |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | (So even a thin veneer is pretty handy) |
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| --- Log closed Sat Sep 27 00:00:04 2014 |