| --- Log opened Tue Sep 23 00:00:04 2014 |
| --- Day changed Tue Sep 23 2014 |
| 00:00 | <&McMartin> | I think a problem with your system is that "go north" is a choice, in that you are now somewhere else and have a different set of things to interact with. You may be able to get them back by, say, going south afterwards |
| 00:00 | <&McMartin> | But what if it was a one-way door, off a cliff, etc |
| 00:02 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: my thinking was that explore is the most simple of links just simple switch from one passage to the next, the reader might not be able to get back but one can also include a backbutton |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | Back should be like restoring an earlier save |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | Or as UNDO. |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | The question is whether GO NORTH is invariably cancelable in-universe with GO SOUTH |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | And it probably shouldn't be |
| 00:02 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: not necessarily or tht wasn't how i was thinking about it, i might be very hypertext oriented right now |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | While, say, EXAMINE TEACUP is something I would think of as of no consequence. |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | (I'm using parser examples here because they tend to discretize action in useful ways) |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | There are some tricks I've seen in hypertext games that don't conveniently map to any of these. |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | I think my favorite being a character noting sarcasm by saying "Everything will be just fine", and clicking "just" would cause additional 'u's to be added to it each time you clicked. |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | I think that technically counts as "explore" in your taxonomy |
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| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | I'm definitely used to, in a hypertext work, being able to click on something that just involves examining it more closely or getting backstory on it |
| 00:06 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: correct in my taxonomy right now jump and that would be same as explore since its just linking to a passage and not changing which would happen if you link back to the old passage |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | And then clicking a link that takes me right back to where I was. |
| 00:06 | < glassresistor> | if theres a more useful way to name that im interested |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | Like I said; my expertise is in parser IF, so I'm not an authority, but... |
| 00:07 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: i was thinking that would be explore with a link back to the original passage or a lastPassage button |
| 00:07 | | * McMartin nods |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | lastPassage is nice because then you can have an object that is examinable from several source nodes. |
| 00:08 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: no i makes sense big thing is with hypertext its unlikely i could easily make a setup that would informed what kind of passage it links to or add things to that passage |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 00:08 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: thats what im thinking is it normal to have back like undo? |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | It's what I "expect" if I'm judging Twine games in IFComp, at any rate. |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | Twine uses the "anchor" to store your move history, I think, so back and forward both work as expected, and bookmark saves the game and your history therein |
| 00:09 | < glassresistor> | so choice limited future action, is there a good name for something that increases future action? like clicking this link will in the future |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | I think that would also be a choice. |
| 00:10 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: im currently using pushState and thinking about hashing whatever the object im using to track to |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | That'd probably work too |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | Undum! That's the one I was thinking of as the other major choice-based system I've used. |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | As an interactor, though, not as an author |
| 00:11 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: in my case choice works by canceling out everything named with it, option a,b,c,d are all named the same; this would work that a,b,c,d all named differently and other passages include links with names the same as each of them |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | I know how I'd implement it, but I don't have a handy name for the construct |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | It's practically a submenu |
| 00:13 | < glassresistor> | yeah i agree, im currently here trying to get good naming conventions, i've implemented too many things and had to rename everything later |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | The most basic case for me would be "unlock door", the selection of which removes itself and enables "go through door" |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | So maybe "unlocker" if you just need a placeholder name |
| 00:14 | < glassresistor> | unlock and choice might be good options |
| 00:14 | < glassresistor> | jinx |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | That's two votes, motion carries~ |
| 00:15 | <@Reiv> | If motion carries, then veto jungles |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | stop feeding, newb |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | (I have no idea what that would be in this context) |
| 00:16 | <@Reiv> | (suggesting the use of PHP) |
| 00:18 | < glassresistor> | nice thanks for the suggestions here, ill lurk for a little longer and people are welcome to open an issue or fork the readme, ill be commiting the javascript as soon as i get my tests and basic events setup |
| 00:19 | | * TheWatcher shoots Reiv |
| 00:21 | | * Reiv dies, allowing PHP advocates to continue feeding the newbs |
| 00:21 | <@Reiv> | glassresistor: This turns out to be a pretty good place to lurk in general |
| 00:21 | <@Reiv> | The code-agnostic attitude to the channel can learn you a great deal. |
| 00:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, sorry, I saw PHP and had an instinctive response~ |
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| 00:23 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm sure the gaping chest wound will heal fine! |
| 00:23 | <@Reiv> | It's OK I'll just hide behind the low brick wall for thirty seconds |
| 00:24 | <@Reiv> | Hold your fire till afterwards and we'll be all good |
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| 03:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | So apparently HTML load order was designed by a crazy person |
| 03:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | AFAICT, here's how it works: |
| 03:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | - parse the HTML and assemble the DOM |
| 03:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | - while assembling the DOM, if you encounter any <script> tags containing code, execute that code immediately on the incomplete DOM |
| 03:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | - if this code adds more script tags, execute them at some point before you finish assembling the DOM in ways that are hard to predict |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | - after assembling the DOM, fetch and execute all <script src> in the order they appear in the file |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | - summon Azathoth |
| 03:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | - die |
| 03:57 | <@Azash> | Hm |
| 03:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...hmm |
| 03:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, modifying the page so that it precaches all of the map rendering info turns out to be a really bad idea |
| 03:59 | <@Azash> | I mean it could be more nonsensical |
| 03:59 | | * ToxicFrog fishes chrome back out of the OOM pit |
| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | So, uh |
| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Javascript does have a garbage collector, right? |
| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Stuff that I no longer hold references to should get deleted? |
| 04:06 | <~Vornicus> | Should, yeah |
| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hrm. |
| 04:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | oh I see the problem |
| 04:07 | <~Vornicus> | Chrome apparently only gc's on inactive tabs which is no help, but |
| 04:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | wait what |
| 04:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | that is incredibly stupid |
| 04:08 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, apparently that's a myth, nemmind |
| 04:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh thank god. |
| 04:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | This page claims up to half a gig of memory every time you switch decks, if that were true it would be totally unusable |
| 04:08 | <~Vornicus> | that's batshit |
| 04:09 | <~Vornicus> | entirely so, in fact, what the hell are you doing |
| 04:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: this: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/ |
| 04:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ideally I want people to be able to use the dropdown indefinitely without it leaking their computer to death. |
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| 04:16 | <~Vornicus> | I'm seeing a constant 218MB load for this page. |
| 04:18 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, having now traversed the dropdown twice, it's only 222MB |
| 04:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Huh. What browser? |
| 04:19 | <~Vornicus> | Chrome Mac 39 (dev branch? I don't remember being on dev branch) |
| 04:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Release branch is 37, you're definitely on dev branch. |
| 04:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Interestingly, it leaks quite dramatically for me. Maybe this is a bug in beta branch. |
| 04:20 | <~Vornicus> | I should switch back, but |
| 04:21 | <~Vornicus> | -- maybe tomorrow. i need sleep. |
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| 04:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, upgrading to Kinetic 5.1 has pretty much taken care of the leaks, it looks like. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Sep 24 00:00:02 2014 |