| --- Log opened Mon Sep 22 00:00:31 2014 |
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| 01:33 | <@celticminstrel> | I dunno what a dark engine is. |
| 01:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Except that from the context it's obviously a game engine. |
| 01:34 | <~Vornicus> | dark is used for thief 2 and also system shock 2 |
| 01:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | And Thief 1. |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | Not "a" but "the" Dark Engine. |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | Just as the Unreal Engine is not unreal for it does exist, so is the Dark engine relatively well-lit (and indeed, lighting-level tracking was a big part of it~) |
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| 02:01 | | * celticminstrel does understand that. |
| 02:02 | <&McMartin> | NewDark remains one of the most astonishing feats of moddery. |
| 02:13 | <@Reiv> | It may be a little less astonishing than publicly admitted, mind |
| 02:13 | <@Reiv> | In the "Some sneaky bugger may have gotten hold of source code instead of relying entirely on exe hacking" sense |
| 02:13 | <@Reiv> | Not that this reduces the overall achievement any |
| 02:14 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 02:14 | <&McMartin> | And, I mean |
| 02:14 | <&McMartin> | I have in fact done my share of ASM-ripping when running through core dumps of mixed my code and other people's code |
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| 02:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: some sneaky bugger most certainly got hold of the source code; it showed up some time after the Thief 2 source was found on a disk in a box of Origin Systems and LGS memorabilia. |
| 02:23 | <@Reiv> | snrk |
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| 04:43 | < [R]> | "[The support staff] had vague, hand-drawn pirate maps of what we thought the UIs looked like." |
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| 07:54 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 07:57 | <@TheWatcher> | I wonder if that means that buttons are marked with large Xs, and areas framed with dashed lines.... |
| 08:03 | <@Alek> | ¬_¬ |
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| 13:07 | <@Tarinaky> | I have a stupid, and slightly maths question. |
| 13:08 | <@Tarinaky> | If I take a time-domain signal over domain [0,T] |
| 13:08 | <@Tarinaky> | And pipe it through an FFT |
| 13:08 | <@Tarinaky> | What're the... axis? |
| 13:15 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean... Aside from being frequency. |
| 13:15 | <@Tarinaky> | But what units/offset |
| 13:47 | | * RchrdB skims http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_Fourier_transform |
| 13:48 | <@RchrdB> | the y axis is amplitude, the x axis is⦠I think it's something like 1/frequency but I can't remember. |
| 13:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Also. Argh at R for being obtuse. |
| 13:49 | <@RchrdB> | "the sinusoid's frequency is k/N cycles per sample", where k is the index and N is the number of samples |
| 13:49 | <@RchrdB> | ah okay |
| 13:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Wat? |
| 13:50 | <@RchrdB> | if I read this right, you put in 44100 samples covering one second, and you get 44100 amplitudes as an output from the DFT/FFT |
| 13:51 | <@RchrdB> | dft[0] = the 0 cycles/second component (the DC component), dft[1] = the 1 cycles/second component, dft[2] = the 2 cycles/second component, dft[n] = the n hertz component |
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| 13:51 | <@Tarinaky> | So the x-axis of the DFT corresponds to the reciprocal of the x-axis of the input signal? |
| 13:52 | <@RchrdB> | um something like that |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | In other news... In R, if I want to create a sine wave signal as a time-series (so I can pipe it through some mappings and plot the result)... |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | How the fck do I even> |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | The only documents I can find relate to getting a time series from a file. |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | But I don't have a file, I just want a sine wave. |
| 13:54 | <@RchrdB> | I don't know R at all. You speak numpy though, don't you? |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Not terribly well |
| 13:55 | <@RchrdB> | better than my R~ |
| 13:55 | <@Tarinaky> | NumPy doesn't have graphing though |
| 13:55 | <@RchrdB> | matplotlib |
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| 14:56 | <@Tarinaky> | Ruby problem. |
| 14:56 | <@Tarinaky> | I have an array of arrays. |
| 14:56 | <@Tarinaky> | How do I perform element-wise addition? |
| 15:00 | <@RchrdB> | You've got x = [ [1,2], [3,4] ] and you want [4,6]? |
| 15:02 | <@RchrdB> | or you want to add a constant to every point in all the nested arrays? |
| 15:02 | <@RchrdB> | er, add a scalar... |
| 15:04 | <@RchrdB> | nested calls to array.map, either way. |
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| 15:27 | <@Tarinaky> | RchrdB: The first one. But x= [ [1,2], [3,4], ... ] |
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| 15:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Eugh. My maths doesn't work anyway :( |
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| 15:54 | <@RchrdB> | Tarinaky, I have an awful-looking: sum_array_of_arrays = lambda { |x| x.inject([0] * x[0].length) { |x, y| x.zip(y).map { |a| a[0]+a[1] } } } |
| 15:54 | <@RchrdB> | I feel dirty and I blame Ruby for not appearing to have zipWith or foldr. :( |
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| 16:16 | <@Tarinaky> | I support whole-heartedly the blaming of Ruby. |
| 16:30 | <@RchrdB> | the numpy equivalent is something trivial like: reduce(operator.add, numpy.array([ [1,2], [3,4] ])) |
| 16:31 | <@RchrdB> | It REALLY helps to have a vector-of-numbers type that has proper arithmetic operators. |
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| 16:38 | <@Azash> | If you want it as a one-liner I can't really come up with anything clean |
| 16:39 | <@Azash> | I'd probably use something like take_while myself |
| 16:40 | <@Azash> | Oh, hum |
| 16:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | user=> (map + [1 2] [3 4]) |
| 16:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | (4 6) |
| 16:41 | <@Azash> | How about this |
| 16:41 | <@Azash> | x.transpose.each {|elem| elem.replace([elem.inject{|sum,x| sum + x }]} |
| 16:43 | <@Azash> | The inject part is from SO as I haven't really used that myself but the basic idea should work |
| 16:58 | <@Azash> | Well, no comment but it seems to work in repl.it at least |
| 16:59 | <@Azash> | Well, obviously don't name the sum helper x too |
| 17:06 | <@RchrdB> | Azash, oh i like x.transpose |
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| 18:05 | | * McMartin renders an early-1970s deco font as an 8-bit font. It doesn't end up working very well. |
| 18:05 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/stop-64.png |
| 18:05 | <&McMartin> | I have some sketches on how to make it actually readable. |
| 18:06 | <&McMartin> | I'd add "at that resolution, but honestly, given the H letterform I'm going to just have to leave it at that. |
| 18:26 | <@RchrdB> | That looks like it'd be beautiful for writing, say, six to twelve letters on the side of wall, blown up so that each texel occupies about fifty square pixels on the player's screen. |
| 18:29 | <&McMartin> | This is the font that was used for the old Car Wars logo~ |
| 18:29 | <&McMartin> | But even then, what the Hell is up with that H letterform |
| 18:31 | <&McMartin> | But yes, GIANT SIGNS OF *THE GLORIOUS INDUSTRIAL FUTURE* is more or less what Stop was designed for. |
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| 18:43 | | * Derakon mutters at his laptop. |
| 18:43 | <&Derakon> | dyld: Symbol not found: __ZNK5boost6thread6get_idEv |
| 18:44 | <&Derakon> | It's looking in /usr/local/lib/libboody_thread-mt.dylib, which seems logical enough, but it's not finding it. |
| 18:44 | <&Derakon> | Reinstalled boost, no dice. |
| 18:46 | <&McMartin> | Are the other boost::thread functions linking? Maybe your C++ manglers are different across your compiler and theirs. |
| 18:48 | <&Derakon> | Installed with Homebrew, not a binary, so it should have been built from source. |
| 18:52 | <&Derakon> | Bleh, stupid OS upgrade breaking everyfuckingthing. |
| 18:52 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I'm not taking 10.9.5 for awhile. |
| 18:52 | <&Derakon> | I only did it because the new laptop refused to do an account migration from the old one until the old one had been upgraded. |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | Blergh. |
| 18:53 | <&Derakon> | But that means that now neither computer can do dev work. |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | Every year or so I am tempted to maybe get a new Mac |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | Every year I think for about 45 seconds and decide it isn't worth the trouble and expense. |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | Maybe if I need to do iOS devwork. |
| 18:53 | <&Derakon> | I wouldn't have got this one except the old computer's USB ports died. |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | (The one from like 2006 is still going strong!) |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 18:54 | <&McMartin> | No fun. |
| 18:57 | <&Derakon> | ...hm. It occurs to me that our project includes its own copy of part of boost. |
| 18:57 | <&McMartin> | A bunch of boost exists purely as header files, because loltemplates. |
| 18:57 | <&Derakon> | I can't remember if that copy is just the headers-only portion. |
| 18:58 | <&Derakon> | But if it isn't then maybe there's a disconnect between that copy (which I think we build against), and my local copy (which is what the program is trying to run against) |
| 18:59 | <&McMartin> | Boost significantly changed many APIs in the past ten minor revisions or so. |
| 18:59 | <@RchrdB> | "significantly changed APIs" "minor revisions" â wat? |
| 19:00 | <&Derakon> | You can change APIs in a minor revision so long as you don't break existing method calls, only add new ones. |
| 19:02 | <@RchrdB> | I assume that "significantly changed" means "breaking changes", otherwise it's just "new alternatives added" ¬_¬ |
| 19:04 | <&McMartin> | Breaking changes, yes |
| 19:04 | <&McMartin> | Minor revisions because "minor" is the name of the second number in versions of the form x.y.z |
| 19:04 | <&McMartin> | Semantic versioning protocols: Not actually universal no matter how hard you sing LA LA LA while covering your ears and squinching your eyes shut, alas. |
| 19:06 | <@RchrdB> | Hm. |
| 19:07 | <@RchrdB> | The one that I'm used to using is "major.minor.micro", where major goes up on breakage, minor goes up on significant new stuff, micro goes up on backported bugfixes. |
| 19:08 | <@RchrdB> | Ah. The versioning policy Hackage recommends is "A.B.C" where "A.B" is the major and "C" is the minor. |
| 19:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | RchrdB: that's almost semantic versioning: major breaks backwards compatibility, minor changes the visible API in non-breaking ways, patch does not change the API. |
| 19:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Personally I think this is a good idea but I also dislike it because I like to be able to distinguish "major-major" design changes and "minor-major" API changes that break backwards compatibility. |
| 19:10 | <@RchrdB> | I think that a bunch of packages (ex: setuptools) on PyPI have started doing "major.minor", where major goes up on anything that might break compat, minor goes up on anything that definitely won't. |
| 19:10 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile, when people write contracts that say things like "you will get support for this software/free upgrades within the major and/or minor version", then it turns out your version numbers end up being subject to the whims of marketing and busdev. |
| 19:11 | <@RchrdB> | That's the nightmare scenario~ |
| 19:22 | | * celticminstrel is with McM on the subject of new macs. |
| 19:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Mine is from 2006 too, and it still works, though I'm stuck on 10.7. |
| 19:23 | <@celticminstrel> | ...there's still security upgrades being released though. |
| 19:23 | <&McMartin> | Ah |
| 19:23 | <&McMartin> | I was from the generation of 2006 Macs that could in fact run 10.9, so it's on 10.9.4 now (went there straight from 10.6) |
| 19:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Huh? |
| 19:24 | <&McMartin> | IIRC the hardware cutoff for 10.9 was in the middle of 2006. |
| 19:24 | <@celticminstrel> | I think I got it in the fall, or late summer. |
| 19:25 | <&McMartin> | It might run 10.9 then, you should check its precise reivision~ |
| 19:25 | <&McMartin> | *revision |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Someone else said it might as well... |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | It's 64-bit, at least... |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Though it seems unable to boot the 64-bit kernel. |
| 19:26 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, there was some specific chip or mobo features that need to exist, IIRC |
| 19:43 | <&Derakon> | Okay, I think I figured out what's going on -- SWIG is no longer found by my configure script, so I was trying to run outdated binding code. |
| 19:43 | <&Derakon> | Which was looking in the wrong places in the libraries. |
| 19:43 | <&Derakon> | Of course, trying to update SWIG failed because one of its dependencies is also out of date...time to figure out how to tell Homebrew to rebuild everything. |
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| 20:01 | <&Derakon> | That done, now where the hell did my Java includes go? O_o |
| 20:06 | <&Derakon> | I have /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework and all that, but there's no headers in there anywhere WTF. |
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| 21:02 | <&Derakon> | Hooray I can finally fail to compile the Java code instead of failing to compile the C++ code! Progress! |
| 21:04 | <@TheWatcher> | \o/ |
| 21:10 | <&Derakon> | Aaaand goddammit Google. |
| 21:10 | <&Derakon> | We're using their Guava Java library for its Event Bus. |
| 21:10 | <&Derakon> | Which is basically a publish/subscribe system. |
| 21:11 | <&Derakon> | I need to make a prioritized event bus though so I can be certain that our image database gets the new image before all of the guys that want to display it do. |
| 21:11 | <&Derakon> | This would be straightforward if only Google made all of the classes that go into its EventBus public. |
| 21:11 | <&Derakon> | But they didn't. |
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| 21:54 | | * Derakon mutters at ImageJ. |
| 21:54 | <&Derakon> | Why are you making a window, goddammit? We have our own fucking windows, stop making your own! |
| 21:57 | <@TheWatcher> | But it's just so enthusiastic! |
| 22:00 | <&Derakon> | I really, really wish we hadn't decided to shackle ourselves to it a decade or so ago. ;_; |
| 22:00 | <&Derakon> | It's what you get from two decades' worth of development with not one single refactor or any worry about technical debt. |
| 22:01 | <&Derakon> | I'm amazed it functions on its own, but of course any attempt to impose your own behaviors upon sub-components is a complete and utter nightmare. |
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| 22:04 | | * TheWatcher sighs at Telliamed's code |
| 22:04 | <@TheWatcher> | Sod it, I've had enough of this pile of hideous kludges. |
| 22:06 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 22:08 | <&Derakon> | In unrelated news, apparently if you switch your locale to Turkish, then PHP will fail to compile any classes that have a capital 'I' in their names, because Turkish does not have such a character. https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=18556 |
| 22:08 | | * ToxicFrog reduces the size of his System Shock map files by 50% by moving the rendering into JS |
| 22:09 | <&Derakon> | (Or rather, i and I are not considered to be lower/upper-case versions of each other, because Turkish has a dotted I and undotted i too) |
| 22:19 | <@Reiv> | You can code in Turkish? |
| 22:19 | <@Reiv> | Not being sarcastic, but I thought programming languages relied on lingua francia |
| 22:19 | <@Reiv> | (I thus assume there are chinese or russian programming languages out there somewhere too) |
| 22:21 | <@Reiv> | nesli vodka = nyet { ~ |
| 22:22 | <&Derakon> | From what I remember seeing, foreign language programming tends to leave the actual language alone and just translate variable names and comments. |
| 22:22 | <&Derakon> | This is a ludicrous bug largely because PHP isn't doing that. |
| 22:25 | | * Derakon does the successful-against-all-odds coder dance. |
| 22:25 | <&Derakon> | BOW BEFORE MY PERSISTENCE IN THE FACE OF UNREASONABLE LIBRARY BEHAVIORS |
| 22:28 | <@TheWatcher> | b |
| 22:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Gah, apparently irssi doesn't understand emacs key shortcuts |
| 22:29 | <&Derakon> | Shameful. |
| 22:31 | <@TheWatcher> | (Idly, Reiv: https://gist.github.com/TheWatcher/0a60db0fab9e6421ce8c - that's perfectly valid code, I note!) |
| 22:31 | <@Reiv> | TheWatcher: Right, but I'd expect it to be |
| 22:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Maps now have a proper index page: http://funkyhorror.ancilla.ca/toxicfrog/ss1/maps/ |
| 22:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | And now, the unified map file with search |
| 22:41 | <@Reiv> | That's still in english though is my point |
| 22:42 | <@Reiv> | What with the bits that are in russian being bits that are meant to be arbitary tokens anyway |
| 22:44 | <@Azash> | https://i.imgur.com/28l8teD.jpg |
| 22:45 | | Harlow [harlow@Nightstar-pq0497.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Azash: ,,, |
| 22:45 | <@Reiv> | er what |
| 22:45 | <@TheWatcher> | (yes, those are encrypted ...s) |
| 22:46 | <@Reiv> | I take it the objection here is that they're passing credit card numbers in cleartext? |
| 22:46 | <@Azash> | Reiv: "base64 encryption function" |
| 22:47 | <&Derakon> | base64 is an encoding, not an encryption. |
| 22:47 | <&Derakon> | Encodings require no special knowledge to decode; you just apply a straightforward cipher. |
| 22:48 | <@Reiv> | pft |
| 22:48 | <@Reiv> | That's helpful |
| 22:48 | < Harlow> | pft, is right break out your xor's |
| 22:48 | <@Azash> | Encodings are just modifications in how the data is represented |
| 22:48 | <@Azash> | eg. base64 uses 8 bits to represent 6 bits, IIRC |
| 22:49 | <@Azash> | Encryption implies that the data is somehow rendered inaccessible except for the optional set of people with the key to decrypt it |
| 22:50 | <@Reiv> | Well yes |
| 22:50 | <@Reiv> | I did not read the 'encode' bit |
| 22:50 | <@Reiv> | Because I was in a hurry. |
| 22:51 | <@Azash> | Ah |
| 23:17 | | Ghozer [fake@Nightstar-bsn.an4.84.108.IP] has joined #code |
| 23:17 | | HotShot [fake@Nightstar-v2a8r2.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 23:22 | < [R]> | Azash: <nulluser> Where did that come from? (Re: the encryption/encoding fuckup) |
| 23:23 | | Ghozer is now known as HotShot |
| 23:26 | <@Azash> | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ [R] |
| 23:26 | <@Azash> | I just got the link from #elsewhere |
| 23:29 | <@Azash> | [R]: https://www.ehow.com/how_5749312_create-credit-card-payment-form.html |
| 23:29 | <@Azash> | There you go |
| 23:29 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:29 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 23:36 | | mike [mike@Nightstar-60p.ql1.103.76.IP] has joined #code |
| 23:36 | | mike is now known as glassresistor |
| 23:36 | < glassresistor> | hi RchrdB said this was a good place to pick some IF peoples brains |
| 23:37 | | * Derakon points to the topic. |
| 23:39 | < glassresistor> | right now my main primitives for linking are explore and choice where explore has no consequences and choice limits which means the reader can't follow the other other options |
| 23:40 | < glassresistor> | are there similar ones i should include? (im building a set of web components for IF) |
| 23:41 | <@RchrdB> | ToxicFrog, McMartin? Poking you because IIRC you've both written games in Inform before. |
| 23:45 | <~Vornicus> | glassresistor: uh, when you say "web components for IF" |
| 23:46 | <~Vornicus> | I take this to mean "I'm building a custom IF library for web", as opposed to "I'm glomming together tools that let me run glulx etc files in browser" |
| 23:51 | <&McMartin> | He's talking explore and choice and is talking link-based and not parser-based IF |
| 23:51 | <&McMartin> | At the moment, Twine seems to be the dominant link-based system, though I think Varytale and ChoiceScript are still kind of out there |
| 23:52 | <&McMartin> | I would think of "explore" as transforming the current node in some way and "choose" as changing which node is the current node. |
| 23:53 | <&McMartin> | There is also the, hrm, "jump", I guess. |
| 23:53 | <&McMartin> | Which is like a choice node except there is only the one. |
| 23:53 | <&McMartin> | What in a CYOA would be a command to turn to paragraph 47, or whatnot. |
| 23:54 | <&McMartin> | If you're aiming for something that has a more sophisticated model than a hypertext document you should have some notion of state, and certain options might either modify that state or be gated on the state being a certain way. |
| 23:54 | <&McMartin> | (Think Lone Wolf and "If you have a bow and wish to use it" - a computerized system should not offer this option unless it knows you have the bow.) |
| 23:56 | < glassresistor> | Vornicus: let me link you https://github.com/glassresistor/readerBeware |
| 23:57 | < glassresistor> | McMartin: my main concern right now is how many different ways i want to track state in the core |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | I don't have time just now to do a serious study of this |
| 23:59 | < glassresistor> | i was modeling explore as just go North, go South kind of actoins of no consequence and choice like this http://twinery.org/wiki/choice |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| --- Log closed Tue Sep 23 00:00:04 2014 |