| --- Log opened Wed Jul 30 00:00:31 2014 |
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| 13:35 | < VirusJTG> | any one around that is living some where in Europe and has a minute or two to do me a small favor that wouldn't mind a PM on the details? |
| 13:38 | < VirusJTG> | TW is assisting. ty |
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| 15:30 | < Vornucopia_> | I have no idea if anything I said got through |
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| 15:31 | < Vornucopia_> | Guess not. |
| 15:31 | < luke> | Not a word. |
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| 15:31 | < Vornucopia_> | HTML befuddler: I have a page whose address includes several getvars: http://example.com/page?foo=bar&baz=quux |
| 15:32 | < Vornucopia_> | I wish to create a link on this page, which appends additional getvars to the link: http://example.com/page?foo=bar&baz=quux&monkey=pants ; I would vastly prefer if I don't need to include, or worse parse, the existing getvars to create the link |
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| 15:34 | < Vornucopia_> | I know I can get the same page plus a fresh thing of getvars using ? at the start of the a link: <a href="?monkey=pants"> gives http://example.com/page?monkey=pants |
| 15:34 | < Vornucopia_> | But that replaces; I wish to append. |
| 15:35 | <@TheWatcher> | Don't think you can do that in straight-up html, I think you'l need to use javascript |
| 15:35 | < Vornucopia_> | no fun. |
| 15:36 | < Vornucopia_> | well, at least window.location has that in it for me. |
| 15:40 | < Vornucopia_> | righto, thank you |
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| 18:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Stupid Atlassian. |
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| 22:56 | <&jerith> | I am writing a program that writes programs. |
| 22:57 | <&jerith> | This truly is the future. |
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| 23:00 | <@RchrdB> | jerith, a compiler or a macro? :) |
| 23:01 | <&jerith> | RchrdB: Code generator. |
| 23:01 | <&jerith> | https://github.com/jerith/ypotryll |
| 23:01 | <&jerith> | Specifically the code_gen dir in there at present. |
| 23:02 | <&jerith> | All the code generators I've written in the past have been exceedingly painful. |
| 23:02 | <@RchrdB> | so it's one of those things where you feed some kind of protocol description into a program that generates a library that (de)serializes that protocol? |
| 23:02 | <@RchrdB> | like the code generators in most Protobuf implementations, say |
| 23:02 | <&jerith> | Pretty much. |
| 23:02 | <&jerith> | This is a static spec, though. |
| 23:03 | <&jerith> | I only need to implement the one. |
| 23:03 | <@RchrdB> | Oh. Oh I see. |
| 23:03 | <@RchrdB> | Eh you're not alone there either. |
| 23:03 | <&jerith> | But it's quite big. I'm not going to do all that by hand. |
| 23:03 | <&jerith> | So far this is less painful the Java or Python code generators I've written. |
| 23:04 | <@RchrdB> | IIRC at least one HTTP server - Mongrel? - is implemented by feeding a formalization of the HTTP spec into a code generator, in order to get out a state machine that wouldn't have random parser bugs due to ad-hoc'ery. |
| 23:04 | <@RchrdB> | I think it's quite a good approach from the langsec perspective. |
| 23:07 | <&jerith> | RchrdB: That just moves the bugs into the spec. |
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| 23:20 | <@RchrdB> | jerith, I dispute the word "just" in that sentence. |
| 23:21 | <&jerith> | RchrdB: True. There's also plenty of space for bugs in the code generator.~ |
| 23:21 | <@RchrdB> | when you generate a parser instead of writing one ad-hoc, all your bugs go into either the spec, where they are much easier to see and fix, or the generator. |
| 23:22 | <&jerith> | RchrdB: This is a standard technique. |
| 23:23 | <&jerith> | You're basically writing a DSL for the spec. |
| 23:23 | <@RchrdB> | I believe that you can write generators that are correct or very nearly because some people have been writing code generators with formal correctness proofs lately |
| 23:23 | <&jerith> | I'm not writing one of those. :-P |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | I am generally pro-DSL |
| 23:23 | <&jerith> | Of course, the code I'm generating is pretty starightforward. |
| 23:24 | <&jerith> | *straightforward |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | 14:59 <@RchrdB> IIRC at least one HTTP server - Mongrel? - is implemented by |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | feeding a formalization of the HTTP spec into a code generator, |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | in order to get out a state machine that wouldn't have random |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | parser bugs due to ad-hoc'ery. |
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| 23:24 | <@RchrdB> | I appreciate that, but I'm willing to bet modestly that the difficulty of writing a correct implementation of a thing is correlated very strongly with the difficulty of proving one. |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | How is this different from having a bison parser for HTTP? |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | (SOrry for the horribly linebreak paste) |
| 23:25 | <@RchrdB> | McMartin, I think it was also the whole request-response state machine, not just the parsers. |
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| 23:25 | <@RchrdB> | possibly down to the networking and all |
| 23:25 | <&McMartin> | Ah |
| 23:26 | <@RchrdB> | also |
| 23:26 | <@RchrdB> | I have bought a laptop with a 3200x1800 screen and now I can't read text on anything else because it's too ugly. |
| 23:26 | <&jerith> | RchrdB: Bitmap fonts. |
| 23:26 | <@RchrdB> | Not good enough. |
| 23:27 | <&McMartin> | MEMS violin |
| 23:27 | <@RchrdB> | What? |
| 23:27 | <&McMartin> | It is a tiny violin so tiny we had to etch it into a chip. |
| 23:27 | <@RchrdB> | I just looked up 4k monitors on ebuyer because that'd be roughly the equivalent at "fill the desk size" and fffffuck they're expensive. |
| 23:27 | <@RchrdB> | Ah right of course. |
| 23:27 | <@RchrdB> | "Micro electro-mechanical systems"? |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | They're neat. I'm not sure if they're fully practical, but they're neat |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | I'm also not sure how mainstream they are. Berkeley had a giant MEMS research project while I was an undergrad there so it seemed omnipresent |
| 23:28 | <@RchrdB> | I remember seeing a bunch of articles in IEE and IET magazines about them, like half a decade back. |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | It looks like they found their niche but they aren't omnipresent |
| 23:29 | <@RchrdB> | They were talking about a whole load of high-throughput medical applications, like being able to just put a droplet of blood onto the surface of a chip and have a MEMS that touches all the molecules to find out what's in it. |
| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio-MEMS mentions "Point-of-care diagnostic chips" |
| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, it seems like sensors and massive-scale switching networks are the applications |
| 23:31 | <@RchrdB> | oh, DLP projectors count |
| 23:31 | <@RchrdB> | with millions of tiny mirrors on tiny little armatures |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | OK, taking that back |
| 23:31 | <@RchrdB> | optical switching is cool as Hell |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | They *are* omnipresent but they're unobtrusive~ |
| 23:32 | <@RchrdB> | "yeah we COULD parse the IP packets and send them on to the next hop, or⦠we could just bounce them to their destination down at OSI layer 1." xD |
| 23:32 | <&McMartin> | micro-gyros and accelerometers are in like everything |
| 23:32 | <@RchrdB> | Dynamically-reconfigurable layer 1 switching FTW. |
| 23:33 | <&McMartin> | Also, I guess that means they *are* fully practical in their use cases >_> |
| 23:33 | <@RchrdB> | well |
| 23:34 | <~Vornicus> | arg, I need a real mousepad |
| 23:34 | <@RchrdB> | It doesn't sound like anyone has figured out how to make a MEMS sex toy yet, but we'll get there. |
| 23:34 | | * Vornicus hasn't used a mousepad in like a decade; optical mice have always just worked... not on this table they don't. |
| 23:34 | <@RchrdB> | I have great faith in humanity. |
| 23:35 | <&jerith> | Vornicus: I find a sheet of paper works well. |
| 23:35 | <@RchrdB> | Vornicus, fwiw, the best mousemat that I've ever used was a tablecloth. |
| 23:36 | <~Vornicus> | The paper moves too ;_; |
| 23:37 | <&jerith> | Vornicus: Stick it down. |
| 23:37 | <&jerith> | I find a book or something on one end works okay. |
| 23:38 | <&jerith> | Not long-term, but then long-term I use a table that doesn't hate mice. |
| 23:44 | <~Vornicus> | Welcome to cats |
| 23:44 | <~Vornicus> | er, mischan |
| 23:45 | <&McMartin> | HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN !! |
| 23:46 | | * McMartin is murdered by a volley of fragmentation clams hurled from offstage |
| 23:47 | | * jerith unmurders McMartin. |
| 23:50 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| --- Log closed Thu Jul 31 00:00:47 2014 |